I think there is a legitimate cause for conern for a lot of people to give this title a skeptical eye. As you stated it does not really reinvent the wheel here, so for a lot of people who are completely beaten to death of the same model the genre has been churning out the last few years, there's a potential red flag.
Why is it in the MMO genre that people feel the formula needs to change with every release? Most genres have played the same for decades, shooters, RPG's, RTS's, fighters so on and so forth. For the most part all have stayed true to their original formula. Yet still remain fun to play for the respective audience they cater to.
Has it ever occured to those saying this that maybe what gets old is the presentaion of the genre, and not the formula? That's what gets old to me anyway, the lifelessness of the worlds and the characters that inhabit them. TOR seems to be taking a shot at changing that as does GW2.
Because they did not stick to the working and proven FUN formula (eg. UO, AC...) They created dumbed down versions of the original and then one day a game called WoW came and took the dumbed down versions and made it even worse. Since then, the world of MMO's has been changed and companies chase the dream of creating another WoW success.
There are great examples of successfull game designs and ideas out there, but for some reason the companies still think we want to be treated like retards and give us theme parks, quest icons, arrows, one click crafting, and in some newer cases even auto run to quest spot/NPC. I feel insulted by that, not sure about the rest of you.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Because they did not stick to the working and proven FUN formula (eg. UO, AC...) They created dumbed down versions of the original and then one day a game called WoW came and took the dumbed down versions and made it even worse. Since then, the world of MMO's has been changed and companies chase the dream of creating another WoW success.
There are great examples of successfull game designs and ideas out there, but for some reason the companies still think we want to be treated like retards and give us theme parks, quest icons, arrows, one click crafting, and in some newer cases even auto run to quest spot/NPC. I feel insulted by that, not sure about the rest of you.
Because 'fun' is an objective measure and the 20 million people currently enjoying their MMOs are very likely lobotomized.....
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
To be honest, I cant wait for ToR I know I will be dissapointed in some parts, over the moon at others. Dragon Age 2 taught me that not everything I used to like works for me any more but and heres the big one, I cant wait to lose my self in a star wars universe that really has a narrative to it.
Because they did not stick to the working and proven FUN formula (eg. UO, AC...) They created dumbed down versions of the original and then one day a game called WoW came and took the dumbed down versions and made it even worse. Since then, the world of MMO's has been changed and companies chase the dream of creating another WoW success.
There are great examples of successfull game designs and ideas out there, but for some reason the companies still think we want to be treated like retards and give us theme parks, quest icons, arrows, one click crafting, and in some newer cases even auto run to quest spot/NPC. I feel insulted by that, not sure about the rest of you.
Because 'fun' is an objective measure and the 20 million people currently enjoying their MMOs are very likely lobotomized.....
No shit Cherlock, how did you came to that conclusion is beyound me? The mass loving shitty product especialy in entretainment isn't something new dude, look at movies, books... Mass products became the opposite of quality in people mind, its not for nothing either...
So the kind of claim you are making here is double face coin. You can look at it positively or negatively really; its personal in the end.
No shit Cherlock, how did you came to that conclusion is beyound me? The mass loving shitty product especialy in entretainment isn't something new dude, look at movies, books... Mass products became the opposite of quality in people mind, its not for nothing either...
So the kind of claim you are making here is double face coin. You can look at it positively or negatively really; its personal in the end.
Yes it does fall to personal beliefs of what is fun, which means there's no need to get snarky, it just makes you look like a ..well you know.
People come here to offer their opinions, no one is right or wrong in that, as you said yourself it's personal. That doesn't mean you have to take it personally if someone disagrees with you.
BTW just for your future use of the word it's Sherlock, unless of course you were calling him a Cher-lock, which just sounds gross.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Couldn't this just be a better ONE player experience. KOTOR was fun enough on my own guys. They openly admit stressing the movie feal, rather than immersing you in the star wars universe. True I guess I'm just looking for something else, it's technically an mmo. I can't argue that, multiple people playing a one player game. Sounds interesting, light speed awwwaaayyyy---------------------------------------------------> Oh one more thing, not for sure but I was reading an account of this supposed Mythic employee who was extremely explosive over being laid off. He popped off about how TOR was being run similar to WAR. Seeing as mythic and bioware became corporate puppets. As for the secretives, he attributes it to them being scared as they await WAR's fate. Oh it's gonna be so sad when it's doesn't even turn out to be a descent pile.
No shit Cherlock, how did you came to that conclusion is beyound me? The mass loving shitty product especialy in entretainment isn't something new dude, look at movies, books... Mass products became the opposite of quality in people mind, its not for nothing either...
So the kind of claim you are making here is double face coin. You can look at it positively or negatively really; its personal in the end.
Yes it does fall to personal beliefs of what is fun, which means there's no need to get snarky, it just makes you look like a ..well you know.
People come here to offer their opinions, no one is right or wrong in that, as you said yourself it's personal. That doesn't mean you have to take it personally if someone disagrees with you.
BTW just for your future use of the word it's Sherlock, unless of course you were calling him a Cher-lock, which just sounds gross.
I was just pointing the fact popularity is not equal to quality, which seam to be how that poster always defend tempark; they are popular so they are good, which is probably false. Saying a product is popular so it must be good isn't very often true, it can just fit the need most consumer have in fact.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the Article is good, Just like when your on the Fourms and you list your opinion as a player, some people are going to hate it. Some people just hate anything
Lol @saying you don't like SWTOR since every SECOND front page news slide is for SWTOR.. I know it's a good game and Bioware and SW and hype etc.. but c'mon.. it's starting to look like spam.
I don't understand how anyone could make the claim that this site "hates" Rift. Sure if you read the forums you might think that but if you read the staff articles and the review of the game, you couldn't make that claim at all. This site, like many others, is very biased in how it reports information regarding MMO's but it most definitely isn't a negative bias at all. Gimme a break
Murphy talks about KotOR and how that "is and was one of the greatest RPGs in recent memory" and then immediately turns around and says "But a story alone doesnt make an MMO great." I would argue that the story alone is what made KotOR great, and while KotOR was not an MMO and didn't have a great deal of replay value, it has had market sustainability and garnered the support of millions of fans. The individual classes and missions within KotOR were horrible - there was no challenge to anything because the main character could simply run through and chop down everything in his/her path, even when the opposing enemy was supposed to be a full-fledged Sith. It had all the challenge of eating a small bag of M&Ms, and yet it had the main character running around for hours in each zone doing menial tasks gated only by these challengeless challenges.
KotOR 2's story was almost universally panned as being easy-to-predict and whereas KotOR 1 has been hailed as the greatest of all Star Wars games (perhaps next to some X-Wing games, depending on your particular favored style of gameplay), KotOR 2 never seems to be put in that same pantheon. The make-or-break feature in these games was really the story, and as a result I don't think we should so quickly write off the storytelling aspect.
LotRO is largely popular because of its storytelling, and is still one of the most popular MMOs to this date, fully 4 years after its release. It is true that Turbine hasn't stuck with only storytelling - there are raids, there are social items, there are events held 5 times a year - but every major update is predicated on continuing the story first and foremost. They could take us into a new zone, but they never do so without a story that explains why we need to be there for the greater good of the Free Peoples.
"If in the end TOR is a really good game that has a great main campaign but can’t keep me subscribed, I’ll be okay with that. I know I can always go back whenever there’s more of that “fourth pillar” to eat up. "
So do what I am doing, wait until extra content is added on. The game is not going to fail, so you might as well wait until your gaming experiance is that much better. Of course you can always say wait till the next patch but you have to draw a line, I would say the 6month point for SWtOR.
Until we hear more about the endgame it's impossible to tell if this is going to be a bust or not. Right now it's looking like a let down because all we've heard about are Flashpoints and Warzones, which we're all burned out on from playing current MMOs like WoW. I mean really, is anyone looking forward to running instances and the same 2 or 3 battlegrounds over and over? I'm bored just thinking about doing it.
Hopefully Bioware is sitting on a ton of cool endgame features and they're just waiting for the right time to release it all. I'm looking forward to a huge amount of new info at this E3. If that doesn't happen, then I think it might be time to start panicking.
Personaly, I'm not much interested in TOR. I don't really like the (recent) Bioware style of game-play nor alot of the design decisions the Developers have made in the game.
That's all personal preference though. I'm sure it will have appeal to people with different preferences....and that's ok...not every game needs to appeal to every gamer. I'd probably be a little more disappointed if I was a big fan of the Star Wars IP....I'm not, so that's ok. I guess that's one of the dangers of using a big name IP though.
The only thing that annoys me about TOR is the level of hype surrounding it. You practicaly can't access the internet without tripping over an article or an ad for it.... and 90 percent of them seem to proclaim it as the best thing ever invented...and you'd have to be crazy not to just get all warm and fuzzy about it. That's the kind of thing that really sets me off. Not that such hype ist atypical for a big name MMO.
If there is one thing I'd like to see MMORPG do more of it's spread the coverage around more to some titles that we haven't really heard about. Mostly everyone who is a gamer can find or has heard lots of info on most of the big name releases. Be nice to see a few of the small fries get spot-lighted more. I'm sure there is a ton of them out there which I've never heard of.
One of the trends of forums is, you say something bad and you are a hater, say something good and you are a fanboi, i guess the same goes for a entire site too :P
One of the trends of forums is, you say something bad and you are a hater, say something good and you are a fanboi, i guess the same goes for a entire site too :P
I would say the game will be successful however they sacrificed a lot $$$ and efforts on the 4th pillar: story.
It leaves players with a seemingly very guided experience that'll put players on rails. I'm not asking for a sandbox here still, as a MMO player I'm a bit sad they choose to copy Wow and left all the non combat oriented players out of the loop. There was so much to benefits from this kind of population.
In my book TOR failed on the following points:
Implementing a tube shooter space experience (BTW it's mostly F2P in CWA)
Restrictions, too many of them (Trust me they'll be obliged to lifts some for them post launch)
Character's heroic proportions and wowish and cartoonish look (It feels weird)
Now I think about the features that won't make the game: clicky ...and wonder what they have been doing since December 2005 with the =/= $100 million invested in the game.
All this "could be may be should be might be" - what's the point? It wont change a damb thing about the game. You all know perfectly well that the correct thing to do is wait for it to be released an let the chumps and lemmings playtest it for you. If it's a smash hit, you'll know soon enough, and it'll run for years, so you wont be missing out on anything. If it's another Star Trek, then word will leak out despite the hype machine.
For the love of god, dont be an idiot and pre-order it.
The "cautious" part is key - it's all about managing expectations. If you think TOR will be the saviour of MMOs and flame the pants off anyone who has issues with something they've heard about the game - chances are you're also one of the voices that will QQ loudest about the game at release because it didn't have feature X (that no-one ever claimed it had to begin with).
MMO players are all good at being optimistic - but we're not so great at caution. Look at the cycle leading up to launch of any game over the past few years and you'll see it.
I'll buy SW:TOR, sure, I know that much. But will I still be playing it 6 months after launch? Only time will tell. I know enough now to want to try it, but that's as far as it goes. Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I find I'm generally less disappointed with games when I regard all the hype with a raised eyebrow.
Hopefully Bioware is sitting on a ton of cool endgame features and they're just waiting for the right time to release it all. I'm looking forward to a huge amount of new info at this E3. If that doesn't happen, then I think it might be time to start panicking.
i wish this would happen, but i really think they've revealed most of the game. ive been consistently disappointed as new info came out, and the recent pvp reveal was just as disheartening. their pvp is exactly like WoW's: battlegrounds for instanced pvp, contested PVE zones for "open world" pvp. it is really sad. ive been waiting for BW to drop something intriguing for a year now.
People don't think MMORPG.com hates SWTOR because of what the columnists write, they think that because there is a vocal minority on the forums here who insist on bashing the game constantly. Usually these people bash the game for what it isn't (SWG2,) or based on completely false information.
Until these haters get bored and walk away, MMORPG.com is going to maintain this reputation.
99% of gamers follow hype and many of those play these hyped games, i dont think will be any different with TOR even if it is a WoW clone.
Ive try many over past few years and almost all have same kind of gameplay from sandbox to themepark you start a game make a character have little or bigger tutorial and step into world walk to first npc and kill x mobs, this go for Darkfall or Rift.
But realy different intresting gameplay i dont see it, for me it feels all the same:(
And worse think is community ingame is also same no real difference between sandbox or themepark they whine and cry or make same mom/norris jokes:(
Comments
Because they did not stick to the working and proven FUN formula (eg. UO, AC...) They created dumbed down versions of the original and then one day a game called WoW came and took the dumbed down versions and made it even worse. Since then, the world of MMO's has been changed and companies chase the dream of creating another WoW success.
There are great examples of successfull game designs and ideas out there, but for some reason the companies still think we want to be treated like retards and give us theme parks, quest icons, arrows, one click crafting, and in some newer cases even auto run to quest spot/NPC. I feel insulted by that, not sure about the rest of you.
Because 'fun' is an objective measure and the 20 million people currently enjoying their MMOs are very likely lobotomized.....
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
To be honest, I cant wait for ToR I know I will be dissapointed in some parts, over the moon at others. Dragon Age 2 taught me that not everything I used to like works for me any more but and heres the big one, I cant wait to lose my self in a star wars universe that really has a narrative to it.
Bring it on.
No shit Cherlock, how did you came to that conclusion is beyound me? The mass loving shitty product especialy in entretainment isn't something new dude, look at movies, books... Mass products became the opposite of quality in people mind, its not for nothing either...
So the kind of claim you are making here is double face coin. You can look at it positively or negatively really; its personal in the end.
Yes it does fall to personal beliefs of what is fun, which means there's no need to get snarky, it just makes you look like a ..well you know.
People come here to offer their opinions, no one is right or wrong in that, as you said yourself it's personal. That doesn't mean you have to take it personally if someone disagrees with you.
BTW just for your future use of the word it's Sherlock, unless of course you were calling him a Cher-lock, which just sounds gross.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Couldn't this just be a better ONE player experience. KOTOR was fun enough on my own guys. They openly admit stressing the movie feal, rather than immersing you in the star wars universe. True I guess I'm just looking for something else, it's technically an mmo. I can't argue that, multiple people playing a one player game. Sounds interesting, light speed awwwaaayyyy---------------------------------------------------> Oh one more thing, not for sure but I was reading an account of this supposed Mythic employee who was extremely explosive over being laid off. He popped off about how TOR was being run similar to WAR. Seeing as mythic and bioware became corporate puppets. As for the secretives, he attributes it to them being scared as they await WAR's fate. Oh it's gonna be so sad when it's doesn't even turn out to be a descent pile.
I was just pointing the fact popularity is not equal to quality, which seam to be how that poster always defend tempark; they are popular so they are good, which is probably false. Saying a product is popular so it must be good isn't very often true, it can just fit the need most consumer have in fact.
Like others have stated, I'm pretty sure TOR won't be the MMORPG that I've always dreamed of.
That said, I'm also sure that I'll have fun while I'm playing it and few regrets once I decide to move on.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the Article is good, Just like when your on the Fourms and you list your opinion as a player, some people are going to hate it. Some people just hate anything
Lol @saying you don't like SWTOR since every SECOND front page news slide is for SWTOR.. I know it's a good game and Bioware and SW and hype etc.. but c'mon.. it's starting to look like spam.
Eat me!
I don't understand how anyone could make the claim that this site "hates" Rift. Sure if you read the forums you might think that but if you read the staff articles and the review of the game, you couldn't make that claim at all. This site, like many others, is very biased in how it reports information regarding MMO's but it most definitely isn't a negative bias at all. Gimme a break
Murphy talks about KotOR and how that "is and was one of the greatest RPGs in recent memory" and then immediately turns around and says "But a story alone doesnt make an MMO great." I would argue that the story alone is what made KotOR great, and while KotOR was not an MMO and didn't have a great deal of replay value, it has had market sustainability and garnered the support of millions of fans. The individual classes and missions within KotOR were horrible - there was no challenge to anything because the main character could simply run through and chop down everything in his/her path, even when the opposing enemy was supposed to be a full-fledged Sith. It had all the challenge of eating a small bag of M&Ms, and yet it had the main character running around for hours in each zone doing menial tasks gated only by these challengeless challenges.
KotOR 2's story was almost universally panned as being easy-to-predict and whereas KotOR 1 has been hailed as the greatest of all Star Wars games (perhaps next to some X-Wing games, depending on your particular favored style of gameplay), KotOR 2 never seems to be put in that same pantheon. The make-or-break feature in these games was really the story, and as a result I don't think we should so quickly write off the storytelling aspect.
LotRO is largely popular because of its storytelling, and is still one of the most popular MMOs to this date, fully 4 years after its release. It is true that Turbine hasn't stuck with only storytelling - there are raids, there are social items, there are events held 5 times a year - but every major update is predicated on continuing the story first and foremost. They could take us into a new zone, but they never do so without a story that explains why we need to be there for the greater good of the Free Peoples.
"If in the end TOR is a really good game that has a great main campaign but can’t keep me subscribed, I’ll be okay with that. I know I can always go back whenever there’s more of that “fourth pillar” to eat up. "
So do what I am doing, wait until extra content is added on. The game is not going to fail, so you might as well wait until your gaming experiance is that much better. Of course you can always say wait till the next patch but you have to draw a line, I would say the 6month point for SWtOR.
Until we hear more about the endgame it's impossible to tell if this is going to be a bust or not. Right now it's looking like a let down because all we've heard about are Flashpoints and Warzones, which we're all burned out on from playing current MMOs like WoW. I mean really, is anyone looking forward to running instances and the same 2 or 3 battlegrounds over and over? I'm bored just thinking about doing it.
Hopefully Bioware is sitting on a ton of cool endgame features and they're just waiting for the right time to release it all. I'm looking forward to a huge amount of new info at this E3. If that doesn't happen, then I think it might be time to start panicking.
Personaly, I'm not much interested in TOR. I don't really like the (recent) Bioware style of game-play nor alot of the design decisions the Developers have made in the game.
That's all personal preference though. I'm sure it will have appeal to people with different preferences....and that's ok...not every game needs to appeal to every gamer. I'd probably be a little more disappointed if I was a big fan of the Star Wars IP....I'm not, so that's ok. I guess that's one of the dangers of using a big name IP though.
The only thing that annoys me about TOR is the level of hype surrounding it. You practicaly can't access the internet without tripping over an article or an ad for it.... and 90 percent of them seem to proclaim it as the best thing ever invented...and you'd have to be crazy not to just get all warm and fuzzy about it. That's the kind of thing that really sets me off. Not that such hype ist atypical for a big name MMO.
If there is one thing I'd like to see MMORPG do more of it's spread the coverage around more to some titles that we haven't really heard about. Mostly everyone who is a gamer can find or has heard lots of info on most of the big name releases. Be nice to see a few of the small fries get spot-lighted more. I'm sure there is a ton of them out there which I've never heard of.
One of the trends of forums is, you say something bad and you are a hater, say something good and you are a fanboi, i guess the same goes for a entire site too :P
That would be true.
I would say the game will be successful however they sacrificed a lot $$$ and efforts on the 4th pillar: story.
It leaves players with a seemingly very guided experience that'll put players on rails. I'm not asking for a sandbox here still, as a MMO player I'm a bit sad they choose to copy Wow and left all the non combat oriented players out of the loop. There was so much to benefits from this kind of population.
In my book TOR failed on the following points:
Implementing a tube shooter space experience (BTW it's mostly F2P in CWA)
Restrictions, too many of them (Trust me they'll be obliged to lifts some for them post launch)
Character's heroic proportions and wowish and cartoonish look (It feels weird)
Now I think about the features that won't make the game: clicky ...and wonder what they have been doing since December 2005 with the =/= $100 million invested in the game.
pretty much
All this "could be may be should be might be" - what's the point? It wont change a damb thing about the game. You all know perfectly well that the correct thing to do is wait for it to be released an let the chumps and lemmings playtest it for you. If it's a smash hit, you'll know soon enough, and it'll run for years, so you wont be missing out on anything. If it's another Star Trek, then word will leak out despite the hype machine.
For the love of god, dont be an idiot and pre-order it.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
The "cautious" part is key - it's all about managing expectations. If you think TOR will be the saviour of MMOs and flame the pants off anyone who has issues with something they've heard about the game - chances are you're also one of the voices that will QQ loudest about the game at release because it didn't have feature X (that no-one ever claimed it had to begin with).
MMO players are all good at being optimistic - but we're not so great at caution. Look at the cycle leading up to launch of any game over the past few years and you'll see it.
I'll buy SW:TOR, sure, I know that much. But will I still be playing it 6 months after launch? Only time will tell. I know enough now to want to try it, but that's as far as it goes. Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I find I'm generally less disappointed with games when I regard all the hype with a raised eyebrow.
i wish this would happen, but i really think they've revealed most of the game. ive been consistently disappointed as new info came out, and the recent pvp reveal was just as disheartening. their pvp is exactly like WoW's: battlegrounds for instanced pvp, contested PVE zones for "open world" pvp. it is really sad. ive been waiting for BW to drop something intriguing for a year now.
People don't think MMORPG.com hates SWTOR because of what the columnists write, they think that because there is a vocal minority on the forums here who insist on bashing the game constantly. Usually these people bash the game for what it isn't (SWG2,) or based on completely false information.
Until these haters get bored and walk away, MMORPG.com is going to maintain this reputation.
99% of gamers follow hype and many of those play these hyped games, i dont think will be any different with TOR even if it is a WoW clone.
Ive try many over past few years and almost all have same kind of gameplay from sandbox to themepark you start a game make a character have little or bigger tutorial and step into world walk to first npc and kill x mobs, this go for Darkfall or Rift.
But realy different intresting gameplay i dont see it, for me it feels all the same:(
And worse think is community ingame is also same no real difference between sandbox or themepark they whine and cry or make same mom/norris jokes:(
How come the SI video has not been posted on this website as it usually synchronizes updates with swtor's friday updates?
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble