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A small dip in WoW subscriber numbers

13

Comments

  • MeTedMeTed Member Posts: 129

    To sum it all up the game is getting stale. Blizzard knows this and should double up efforts on Titan imo.
  • AkaroniaAkaronia Member Posts: 138

    Originally posted by MeTed


    To sum it all up the game is getting stale. Blizzard knows this and should double up efforts on Titan imo.

       That is not a good switch off Titan is a MMOFPS.  WoW is a MMORPG 2 completely different genres so how are you comparing them?

  • SignusMSignusM Member Posts: 2,225

    Originally posted by Akaronia

    Originally posted by MeTed



    To sum it all up the game is getting stale. Blizzard knows this and should double up efforts on Titan imo.

       That is not a good switch off Titan is a MMOFPS.  WoW is a MMORPG 2 completely different genres so how are you comparing them?

    Either way WoW loses subs. They haven't innovated or brought anything new in 7 years, and people are starting to get bored.

  • MeTedMeTed Member Posts: 129

    Originally posted by Akaronia

    Originally posted by MeTed


    To sum it all up the game is getting stale. Blizzard knows this and should double up efforts on Titan imo.

       That is not a good switch off Titan is a MMOFPS.  WoW is a MMORPG 2 completely different genres so how are you comparing them?

     I could easily see Blizzard doing a MMO FPS/RPG and possibly RTS hybrid to some degree. Titan will be designed to appeal to a wider audience than WOW.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Member Posts: 953

    From a business point of view 5% is not small and that is close to the figure we are talking about.

    Blizzard has recognised it is not a small ammount either by saying they have realised they need to get more content out more regularly and have shorter gaps between content releases.

    Personally I am not entirely convinced the lack of new content is what has caused the drop.

  • 0tter0tter Member UncommonPosts: 226

    Originally posted by SignusM

    Originally posted by Akaronia

    Originally posted by MeTed


    To sum it all up the game is getting stale. Blizzard knows this and should double up efforts on Titan imo.

       That is not a good switch off Titan is a MMOFPS.  WoW is a MMORPG 2 completely different genres so how are you comparing them?

    Either way WoW loses subs. They haven't innovated or brought anything new in 7 years, and people are starting to get bored.

     Gamers play WoW for years before they get bored.  I think those guys who admit to playing WoW for 5-7 years and now rage about how bad the game is are amusing.

  • Pawn01Pawn01 Member UncommonPosts: 8

    Originally posted by treisty

    my opinion about the lowering of the number of players  is that its all about the price of the game. Its too expensive and when u are out of cash ofcourse u take a break from playing.They just keep throwing expansions that are way too expensive. with the price of cata,wrath,bc,and vanilla i could almost buy half of an iphone. It cost 110 dollars!!

    Personally, I think you are a bit off the mark here treisty. Though I can understand how this might affect a lingering minority of college kids, and those you (be shamed) have other and greater financial obligations, I point to games such as Everquest, on it's 17th (?) expansion. Obviously it's subscriber base doesn't come anywhere near Blizzard's prized MMO, though it was big in it's day topping 400,000 active accounts, with over 100,000 (25% isn't bad) simultanious subscribers. I still don't believe that the price of an expansion has much to do with the subscriber base. Consider the entertainment value (in terms of minutes/hours) given to you from an MMO or an Expansion pack, versus something such as a movie. A movie (where I live) costs $8 on a week day, and $15 on a weekend (OUCH!) Assuming I am watching ONLY epicly long movies at 2 hours, I could watch 2-4 movies (4 to 8 hours of entertainment) verus the amount of hours I can spend playing my beloved MMO's.

     

    I agree with the earlier posters suggestion that it has to do with content rather than the price of the MMO. For as much entertainment as it gives, all good things come to an end, or become repetitve.

     

    On the OT, I don't think WoW has much to worry about, even age. Blizzard games have a history of sticking around, even now. I think you are going to see people holding multiple subscriptions more often. Companies such as Sony, Blizzard, etc, that hold more than 1 MMO to their name will offer discounts to those who co-subscribe etc. This is more the wave of the future of MMO gaming, as I see it!

  • OberholzerOberholzer Member Posts: 498

    Games age and people move on for a variety of reasons. The obsession with WoW's numbers is hilarious. The fact they've held so many this long is incredible. I too have quit WoW but I don't hate it like so many do and don't sit around praying for it's demise. People love to hate anything big and successful and blame it for all the shortcomings of the MMO industry. Eventually you will all get your wish and it will go away, then everyone can find another game to hate, probably Blizzards next release.

  • MeTedMeTed Member Posts: 129

    Originally posted by TheCrow2k

    From a business point of view 5% is not small and that is close to the figure we are talking about.

    Blizzard has recognised it is not a small ammount either by saying they have realised they need to get more content out more regularly and have shorter gaps between content releases.

    Personally I am not entirely convinced the lack of new content is what has caused the drop.

     It's the lack of innovation that the current devs didn't have the time or experience for. They were tasked with redoing the old world along with stepping up and being the creative force for cataclysm.  Cataclysm also lacks the proper cohesion and story.

  • naraku209naraku209 Member Posts: 226

    I think the recent drops is probably them just cleaning out accounts and banning others

    image

  • ZebladeZeblade Member UncommonPosts: 931

    Originally posted by Yamota

    From 12 million to 11.4 million: http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/05/09/world-of-warcraft-dips-to-a-mere-11-4-million-subscribers/

    I guess that is the small dent that Rift could do to the aging MMORPG. Lets see what GW 2, SW:TOR and TERA can do. I cant imagine it will be much more.

    HAHA .. RIFT? Aging? Rift is just as old. All they did was copy and paste other mmos into one.

    I play it and what everyone is noticing is the LACK of players.. its droping fast. Dont even try to say its not.  Just weeks ago so many servers were high-full right now only 7 say high. And you log in and .. where are all these people?

    I guess all those FREE to PLAY MMO's are making a dent in WOW.. wait.. EQ is making a dent in WOW.. wait AoC is making a dent in WOW..   that was easy...

    Look whats going on around the world.. this is why people are not playing any mmos. 

  • AkaroniaAkaronia Member Posts: 138

    Originally posted by TheCrow2k

    From a business point of view 5% is not small and that is close to the figure we are talking about.

    Blizzard has recognised it is not a small ammount either by saying they have realised they need to get more content out more regularly and have shorter gaps between content releases.

    Personally I am not entirely convinced the lack of new content is what has caused the drop.

       I totally agree with the statement about WoW getting boring and the reason is yes they truly skimped on content and I am saying that as an ex-WoW player who had Cata completely done other than raids in less than 3 months.  The only reason I lasted 3 months was I farmed until I was so burnt out wating on other people to actually get geared due to that everyone else was casual that I played with that I got sick and tired of it.  The same thing everyday and if we wanted to level the guild we had to do full guild groups or do the same dailies every single day, day in and day out if we even wanted the xp bar to move.  There was no option of leveling it with crafting or anything like that.  And low level quests did absolutely nothing. Other than full guild heroics and raids the people who did play everyday got the brunt of everything on them.  Then when it first came out the small guilds who did not max the xp bar lost tons of xp because there was a guild xp bar glitch that took Blizzard over a month to fix and they did nothing for those guilds who reported the xp bar not resetting even after they fixed it.

       I guess that is why there is an entire thread of mostly complaining reviews of Blizzard for bad costumer service at the Better Business Bureau.  The bad reviews outway the good ones by 10-1 at least.  I believe some people are also getting sick and tired of not even being able to reach Blizzard on the phone or getting a response from GM's after putting in tickets that even actully read the ticket and did not respond with.  Well we're sorry if you are unsatisfied with WoW atm and no more.  Nothing eabout the issue at hand or anything and then people who put in tickets about the guild xp bar got recponses such as.  We're sorry you don't like the new content rofl.  When it had nothing to do with content it was a bug they were reporting.  And sometimes it can take longer than a week to even get a response from a GM when you put in a ticket.  This does not make for good business and will most definatly lose you accounts and good customers.

       What it seems like is that Blizzard no longer cares about their long time players and are catering to specific complaints instead of listening to all of their costumers and in hte long run that is bad business.  I have talked to several people who played Beta and warned WoW not to put Cata out in the shape it was in and they did it anyway.  So this is what comes of not listening to your audience and customers.

      Forcing people to do the same thing everyday to level their guild run the same few dungeons that they put out over and over and over makes people get burnt out period and takes all of the fun out of it.

  • RendRegenRendRegen Member Posts: 158

    pretty big loss, but not surprising. turning the heroic dungeons into easy mode aoe fests, specially after blizzard promised they'd be difficult in cataclysm and something to look forward to, made many of us veterans quit the game. and not only the veterans really. when content is so easy even the crap players can have the best dungeon loot within a week of hiting 85.'

    plus facerolling just isnt fun for anyone, and games are all about having fun

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by Merlin1977



    Quite interesting that Mike Morhaime, CEO of Blizzard Entertainment, has stated that the subscription numbers fluctuate depending on how fast people burn through the content, so guess Blizzard are keeping an eye on cancellation reasons.

    http://www.curse.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-news/956087.aspx

    I agree that what you say make sense but also consider this

     

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/03/03/patch-4-1-will-not-contain-firelands-raid-content/

    According to a statement from Blizzard on Eurogamer, patch 4.1 will not contain Firelands and the associated raid content. Lead producer J. Allen Brack cited the fact that players hadn't sufficiently progressed through the current tier of raid content as the reason for this decision. Eurogamer provides the quote: "We feel like the player base isn't really ready for the next raid yet," [Brack] said. "And that led to some changes where Firelands is now actually going to be in 4.2."

     

    almost sounds like double speak,

    CEO claims people are burning thru content,  Lead producer claims players are not progressing fast enough

     

     

    I think what happen is that most people give up raiding because it is too difficult. In WOTLK days, there are plenty of PUG raids, so you can still progress if you are a casual.

    PUG raids are virtually gone after CATA. That is the problem.

    Plus, they should have more dungeons in 4.1 ... two huge dungeons with 6 bosses each? Those are essentially mini-raids. Many people wont be able to finish. It would be MUCH better if they have 4 dungeons with 3 bosses each.

     

  • DeathspankDeathspank Member UncommonPosts: 139

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

     

    Skyrim will come out in November this year, but D3, ME3 and the new SC xpac won't be coming out this year, that has already been confirmed by the companies themselves. Sorry, I guess it'll be a busy first quarter next year image

    Blizz never said they won't release Diablo 3 this year. In fact in their Conference Call, their CEO said they were pushing to get D3 out this year with the open beta beginning in Q3 (July to September). 

     

    Now obviously, knowing Blizzard, they could easily push the release into next year if they aren't happy with the way the beta is going, but that doesn't mean its been confirmed.

  • Skeeter870Skeeter870 Member Posts: 75

    There are, at least, as far as I can find:

    Roughly 4.5million US/EU subscriptions and 8million Chinese.


    Considering that the Chinese pay a fraction of what US/EU players do, and the fact that 600k is a pretty reasonable hit out 4.5mil and yes, this is a "bigger deal" than most seem to be aware. (13% or so.)

    I can assure you they will do everything possible to make the money lost up somehow. (Probably with horses and trash.)

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    Originally posted by Skeeter870

    There are, at least, as far as I can find:

    Roughly 4.5million US/EU subscriptions and 8million Chinese.

    Do you have a source for this? I am not saying this is wrong. This is the way I see it too. However, imagine they had 6 million US/EU subs and only 6 million Chinese subs?



    Considering that the Chinese pay a fraction of what US/EU players do,

     Don't the Chinese pay per hour played? How many hours do they play on average? How much per hour?

    Figures please. "A fraction" doesn't mean much here. Without stats how can we dismiss an argument such as this one?

    Average hours per week - 30; Cost per hour - 20 cents; Total: 24 dollars.

    and the fact that 600k is a pretty reasonable hit out 4.5mil and yes, this is a "bigger deal" than most seem to be aware. (13% or so.)

    How can you tell if these 600k were EU/US subs? Did all 600k came out of EU/US subs? If not, what's the %? What do you mean by reasonable? 

    I can assure you they will do everything possible to make the money lost up somehow. (Probably with horses and trash.)

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    Originally posted by Sukiyaki

    Originally posted by fivoroth

     

    Blizzard (Paul Sams to be exactly) admitted in 2009 Western to Eastern accounts where 45 to 55 in ratio. From that point on their revenues only dropped quarter after quarter but their subscriber numbers have risen both unrelated to patches or seasonal fluctations. Its save to assume only the Eastern and mainly Chinese fraction of their subscriber grew within the last year atleast otherwise their revenues would have atleast risen, even if the Western number remained they would have risen. But due to the actually dropping revenues its not wrong to even assume the Western subscribernumbers allready started to drop since 2009 and where merely compensated by new Chinese accounts.

    At this point 40 : 60 West:East would be very optimistical towards Western playernumbers.

    Actually revenues from both product sales and subscriptions/licences have risen year on year in the period 2007-2010.

     Don't the Chinese pay per hour played? How many hours do they play on average? How much per hour?

    Figures please. "A fraction" doesn't mean much here. Without stats how can we dismiss an argument such as this one?

    Average hours per week - 30; Cost per hour - 20 cents; Total: 24 dollars.

    What matters is that they pay as less as to be rather considered a fraction not just "less". The fact itself they generate less revenue than Western player is important to pinpoint whether subscribernumbers dropped in the East or the West. Exact figures are rather unrelevant because most know them allready and only a few try to be hush hush about them. A average Chinese MMO player generates ~4 U.S Dollar per month. That was official when Shanda published WoW and is even heavily inflated by bot user playing 24/7. Nothing changed until today on the fee for WoW. Even less money goes to Blizzard through royalties from the Chinese publisher, which however isnt siginifcant to this matter.

    Do they pay per month, per week, per hour? This is what I want to know as I honestly don't know the answer. If they are paying per hour, then their figures can fluctuate quite a bit. If the price per hour is sufficiently high, there may be people there who pay more than the fixed $15 sub.

    How can you tell if these 600k were EU/US subs? Did all 600k came out of EU/US subs? If not, what's the %? What do you mean by reasonable? 

    No one can tell the "600k subs" where "all" Western subs. Thats not the matter here. Fact is 600k out of 4.5 million WOULD BE a significant loss for just an expansion(not a release), not just a small dip if it where the case. A case that isnt even unlikely looming over at the revenues.

    He and anyone can make assumptions about EU/US losing 600k the same as YOU made the assumption EU/US just could have lost 600k at maximum. How can YOU tell they didnt lose 1 Million EU/US subs instead, but gained 400k new Chinese accounts/trials which turns out into a mere global loss of 600k "subscriber"? Blizzards real revenues actually dropped in the 1st quarter and they merely toppled it with defered revenues from the previous quarter with all the Cata hype boxsales. On top of that, not everyone who quits the game is an instantly lost subscription. Until the day their prepaid sub runs out they are still counted active. Boxsales of the cata hype sweeped over into 2011 either so even if everything remained the same their revenues should have actually risen even without defered revenues.

    All of these are YOUR assumptions. My examples do not reflect my opinion in any way they are just exactly the opposite of what his arguments were to illustrate that there is no way of telling if these were 600k EU/US or 600k Chinese subs. So we are just left with making a lot of assumptions.

    600k less subs could aswell mean 1 million more inactive player. 600 million less subs could aswell mean 1 million inactive Western gamer and 400 trials in China or rest of the East.

    No one knows.

    Yup, no one knows. These are all speculations simply because there is not enough info to establish any significant correlation/dependence/results etc.

    But dont pretend to be in the position that unless people actually have "prove" that "all of the "600k lost subscriber where Westerners" you can imply or we should assume it was definitely less, when you dont even have any prove it wasnt even more than 600k EU/US subs yourself.

    I said that his arguments are not based on solid data and thus can be wrong. I can't prove anything but neither can you nor can he for that matter.

    We know that 600k subs were lost. What's the impact on Blizzard's profitabilty? Obviously this is not good for WoW. But we can't measure this loss. 

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • Skeeter870Skeeter870 Member Posts: 75

    If we could get a real, concrete number on a Chinese headcount we could figure the rest out...

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Deathspank

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

     

    Skyrim will come out in November this year, but D3, ME3 and the new SC xpac won't be coming out this year, that has already been confirmed by the companies themselves. Sorry, I guess it'll be a busy first quarter next year image

    Blizz never said they won't release Diablo 3 this year. In fact in their Conference Call, their CEO said they were pushing to get D3 out this year with the open beta beginning in Q3 (July to September). 

     

    Now obviously, knowing Blizzard, they could easily push the release into next year if they aren't happy with the way the beta is going, but that doesn't mean its been confirmed.

    Iirc, in the conference meeting that went on earlier this year, Kotick mentioned that there would be no releases from Blizzard this year, so that sounds to me like confirmation of their planning this year.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
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  • AzrileAzrile Member Posts: 2,582

    Originally posted by Skeeter870

    There are, at least, as far as I can find:

    Roughly 4.5million US/EU subscriptions and 8million Chinese.



    Considering that the Chinese pay a fraction of what US/EU players do, and the fact that 600k is a pretty reasonable hit out 4.5mil and yes, this is a "bigger deal" than most seem to be aware. (13% or so.)

     

    I can assure you they will do everything possible to make the money lost up somehow. (Probably with horses and trash.)

    The is absolutely correct up until the point where you started typing.   Read the actual article again.  WOW is making more money than it ever did in the past.  What this means is they gained NA-EU subscribers who pay more, and the lost subscribers(china)  were the lower paying ones.  You can´t make MORE money on LESS subscribers unless you gained more higher paying subscribers.

    Also, this number was a snapshot taken after 4 months with no new content and at the highpoint of the release of another game.  4.1 has since come out and 4.2 is on the PTR now.  Rift is dying, and similar to AOC, WOW is seeing a lot of the players who quit one month, return over the next few months.  Back with AOC, wow said they saw a noticeable drop in subscribers, but after 3 months, 70% of them had returned.. it was never mentioned again, but it can probably be assumed that 70% number increased over the next few months .

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by Azrile.  WOW is making more money than it ever did in the past.  What this means is they gained NA-EU subscribers who pay more, and the lost subscribers(china)  were the lower paying ones.  You can´t make MORE money on LESS subscribers unless you gained more higher paying subscribers.

     

    I doubt Blizzard made more cash due to *more subs* in NA/EU

     

    looking at the press release

    http://investor.activision.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=575495

    For the first quarter, Activision Blizzard had three top-10 PC titles with Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft: Cataclysm™ and StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty™ and Activision Publishing's Call of Duty: Black Ops.(3)

     

    the profits were not from wow alone

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    Originally posted by Sukiyaki

    Matter of fact is: We dont know that 600 subs were lost. We only know there is a difference of 600k in total global active accounts/subs from pre to post Cata. Even aside from usual fluctation of new player joining and old player leaving, we dont know how much subs actually where lost, as allready pointed out before. And even less do we know how many Western subscriber they lost, neither at all nor even at max.

    We know that most of the comments and reactions are assumptions. Whats the problem with that when neither one has any solid and hard proof for anything?  Neither the apologist fans nor the "hater". Obviously it just doesnt suit you when the assumptions might leave a negative reaction in connection to WoW on someone. Merely pointing out assumptions as such is fine even if you dont have anything to add or are in no better position.

    I pointed out that his arguments are mere assumptions. I can start making some random assumptions and all the WoW haters will pick my post apart. This thread isn't any different. It's your usual WoW haters vs bash-the-crap-out-of-all-haters flamewars.

    You however went beyond mere "pointing out", to feigning superior position and actually demand "proof and figures" just to ignore or deny any, when they are provided.

    I never said I was in a superior position to make any sort of assumptions. What's wrong with demanding proof? I don't believe people who are just pulling stuff out of their ass. I don't see anything wrong with that. My examples were just that. Examples. They were simply to illustrate that there is a lot to be desired if we want to make a fairly accurate estimation.

    Do I like to bash haters (not only WoW haters but any kind of MMO haters)? Yes, I love it and I do it all the time. One of the main reasons I am on these boards.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Originally posted by Skeeter870

    There are, at least, as far as I can find:

    Roughly 4.5million US/EU subscriptions and 8million Chinese.

    Do you have a source for this? I am not saying this is wrong. This is the way I see it too. However, imagine they had 6 million US/EU subs and only 6 million Chinese subs?


    They get the 4.5 million USEU from this Blizzard press release, since that subscriber update Blizzard has not shared the regional brake down. There was been 1.5 million subscribers added since then, but how that breaks down regionally is anyone’s guess since Blizzard is not sharing their Data. 

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,045


    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by Azrile.  WOW is making more money than it ever did in the past.  What this means is they gained NA-EU subscribers who pay more, and the lost subscribers(china)  were the lower paying ones.  You can´t make MORE money on LESS subscribers unless you gained more higher paying subscribers.
     
    I doubt Blizzard made more cash due to *more subs* in NA/EU
     
    looking at the press release
    http://investor.activision.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=575495
    For the first quarter, Activision Blizzard had three top-10 PC titles with Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft: Cataclysm™ and StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty™ and Activision Publishing's Call of Duty: Black Ops.(3)
     
    the profits were not from wow alone


    That would be a valid point .....if we werent talking about the increase in revenue WoW made year on year.


    And because of the financial report we know how much revenue WoW by itself made.


    P.S. It's $395 million first quarter 2011. Which is an increase of 27% from first quarter 2010.

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