I like Vanguard..but honestly ...at least SOE kept it on life support. They bought it because no one would and no one will ...touch it with a ten foot pole. Them trying to sell it to a company who will care for it would be great...finding someone who will buy it to begin with...that's the trick.
Can I also suggest to SOE that an excellent way to make a start on getting rid of the 'old SOE' for a fresh slate would be to sell Vanguard to a company that would care for it and actually develop it?
Please?
Let something good come of it all
Why would they do that? This way they can stifle their competition by letting the game languish, actually make a bit of money off its slow demise, and if they ever want to, use the license for their own sequel. Selling the game to some other company who would actually put effort into improving it, would set it up as direct competiton, and SOE is nothing if not Byzantine.
I like Vanguard..but honestly ...at least SOE kept it on life support. They bought it because no one would and no one will ...touch it with a ten foot pole. Them trying to sell it to a company who will care for it would be great...finding someone who will buy it to begin with...that's the trick.
Yeah, I love how people bash SOE for this, acting like selling the game to some random independant developer will cure all it's woes. What people don't realize is that these major updates cost money, and without a player base, there isn't enough money coming in to fully develop the game. It's a vicious catch 22, but even if SOE sold Vanguard to another company, that company isn't likely to have enough funding to truly reinvigorate the game (as is the case in Ryzom) or they will simply buy it only to watch it whither and die while syphoning what little cash they can off of it, because adding developers and producing updates for an unproven product is too much of a financial risk.
They need to fire John Smedly and replace him with someone new.
Only then things will change and a new fresh wind might blew through the company.
As let's face it! John Smedly has been solely responsible for all their escapades and mishaps and so pretty much ran this once great company into the ground to the point where it is today!
Any CEO of any other company would have been fired long ago! But somehow John Smedley always escaped the dance and let his hardworking employees take the fall by several rounds of lay offs these past years! with a fairly huge one recently!
If they want to salvage this sitiuation and for SOE to have any future left, then they need to start kicking at the top and start replacing there! Not the talented and good people on the bottom!!!
I like Vanguard..but honestly ...at least SOE kept it on life support. They bought it because no one would and no one will ...touch it with a ten foot pole. Them trying to sell it to a company who will care for it would be great...finding someone who will buy it to begin with...that's the trick.
If someone like CCP bought it, spent 6 months or so tweaking it, and relaunched it people would play it, I am sure
We will never know though, I think it's obvious SOE will shut it down before selling it on, because thats the kind of company they are (and an example of the reason they have the rep they do.)
They need to fire John Smedly and replace him with someone new.
Only then things will change and a new fresh wind might blew through the company.
As let's face it! John Smedly has been solely responsible for all their escapades and mishaps and so pretty much ran this once great company into the ground to the point where it is today!
Any CEO of any other company would have been fired long ago! But somehow John Smedley always escaped the dance and let his hardworking employees take the fall by several rounds of lay offs these past years! with a fairly huge one recently!
If they want to salvage this sitiuation and for SOE to have any future left, then they need to start kicking at the top and start replacing there! Not the talented and good people on the bottom!!!
Can't argue with this. It does seem like ...with all the fire he draws that Smedly would have been replaced. I have a feeling nobody wants his job though.
I like Vanguard..but honestly ...at least SOE kept it on life support. They bought it because no one would and no one will ...touch it with a ten foot pole. Them trying to sell it to a company who will care for it would be great...finding someone who will buy it to begin with...that's the trick.
Yeah, I love how people bash SOE for this, acting like selling the game to some random independant developer will cure all it's woes. What people don't realize is that these major updates cost money, and without a player base, there isn't enough money coming in to fully develop the game. It's a vicious catch 22, but even if SOE sold Vanguard to another company, that company isn't likely to have enough funding to truly reinvigorate the game (as is the case in Ryzom) or they will simply buy it only to watch it whither and die while syphoning what little cash they can off of it, because adding developers and producing updates for an unproven product is too much of a financial risk.
There is a pretty active trend of companies buying up failed games and trying to relaunch them right now. I wouldn't go saying that no one would or has tried to buy vanguard from SOE. I've heard from a pretty good source that 2 offers have been made.
SOE didn't invest enough money to see vanguard launch in a completed fashion when they took over publishing rights from Microsoft. Then they didn't invest enough resources to properly relaunch the game after they bought it. Sure in some morbid sort of way people can feel "lucky" that vanguard is still limping around, but SOE didn't really save it from anything. They have actually done a rather poor job of developing the game aside from fixing some bugs.
Perhaps another company that didn't already have 2 fantasy mmos competing for the same audience as vanguard would be a little more motivated to make vanguard a success. What did SOE really benefit by purchasing a third game made by Brad McQauid?
Some people have seen enough Sony titles flop that the next 5 years of tiles are tainted for them. They'd have to be bribed or threatened by friends to come back, and even then might just take the bullet so they can go play something fun.
The hack looked really bad. Listen, we programmers and armchair security experts understand enough about what's going on that we can appreciate when a company is doing its best. We wouldn't mock a company that really tried for being hacked. Hell, Google Chrome has finally been hacked (and patched) and it was thought nigh-unhackable. Sony wasn't prepared to withstand a skillful attempt at breaching the system and they were less prepared in the PR department.
On top of that--It comes out recently that the password reset page has a disgusting and laughable vulnerability. Here's what a reliably secure url would look like
[psnsite].soe.com/preset?email=[user's email address]&skey=[hash of user's email address salted in some way with say their user id]
The only way to breach via the url would be to know the user id and exactly how the email address was spliced with the userid to create the has. You could further splice it ("salt") with any assortment of information. Their method, wtih birthdates, is vulnerable to brute force attacks if the assailant doesn't already know the birthdate.
So this password page, and the accompanying email was written by a guy who's associated with (if not directly part of) the effort to secure and stabilize the system.--
Good news for him though, thumbs up is only a rotated version of the symbol he should get.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
If SoE hires back on developers who are competent and doesn't push games out early, they have a great shot at coming back. But as is, they have a number of marginally profitable games coupled with a bad rep for massive failures. They're like the Wests version of the Korean F2P developers that create 15ish games, all of which barely manage to stay afloat.
I like Vanguard..but honestly ...at least SOE kept it on life support. They bought it because no one would and no one will ...touch it with a ten foot pole. Them trying to sell it to a company who will care for it would be great...finding someone who will buy it to begin with...that's the trick.
Yeah, I love how people bash SOE for this, acting like selling the game to some random independant developer will cure all it's woes. What people don't realize is that these major updates cost money, and without a player base, there isn't enough money coming in to fully develop the game. It's a vicious catch 22, but even if SOE sold Vanguard to another company, that company isn't likely to have enough funding to truly reinvigorate the game (as is the case in Ryzom) or they will simply buy it only to watch it whither and die while syphoning what little cash they can off of it, because adding developers and producing updates for an unproven product is too much of a financial risk.
SOE didn't invest enough money to see vanguard launch in a completed fashion when they took over publishing rights from Microsoft. Then they didn't invest enough resources to properly relaunch the game after they bought it. Sure in some morbid sort of way people can feel "lucky" that vanguard is still limping around, but SOE didn't really save it from anything. They have actually done a rather poor job of developing the game aside from fixing some bugs.
Perhaps another company that didn't already have 2 fantasy mmos competing for the same audience as vanguard would be a little more motivated to make vanguard a success. What did SOE really benefit by purchasing a third game made by Brad McQauid?
"SOE didn't invest enough money to see Vanguard launch in a completed fashion when they took over publishing rights from Microsoft?" -- source?
Development for Vanguard began five years before its release date, and McQuaid simply promised more than he could deliver within a reasonable timeframe. You seem to blame SOE for not funding Vanguard after Microsoft dropped them, but what caused Microsoft to drop them in the first place?
Secondly, I would say SOE did a pretty good job with updates given the fact that the game pretty much tanked and the original developer went backrupt with their employees fired in the office parking lot. Despite the relatively rapid decline in population, SOE added content, fixed numerous bugs, and actually made the game playable at max settings for those of us without $6,000 dollar PCs. You never saw long term support for Vanguard because the population simply dropped below a critical point. There were far too many bugs at release and endgame players were clamoring for new content, so instead of waiting on SOE to produce updates, they left the game. It became financially unfeasible to put so much support behind a dieing game. Even Everquest II doesn't get the kind of attention it did back in 2004-2005.
If SOE sold Vanguard to another company, I see no reason why the same thing wouldn't happen again. The company would put forth some effort into trying to fix numerous bugs, but when it came down to producing a plethora of new content, I'm not sure Vanguard would bring in enough money to justify the expenses. In the end, because that game would probably be said company's primary source of income, VG's lifespan may be extended, but updates will be few and far between.
The better option, I think, is to turn Vanguard into a F2P title with a premium subscription.
No. The hack didn't change my opinion of SOE, mostly just cemented my feeling that it is a morally bankrupt company that values it's customers so little that it didn't even bother to protect their identities.
As you pointed out, SOE has let several big name IP games dwindle and die for no apparent reason. The developers pulled off of SWG to make DCUO ensured SWG would never reach its potential. DCUO was their chance to prove they knew gaming...and it's been (imo) an abysmal failure, not even appearing on STEAMS top 100 games these days, merging down to 4 servers and replacing their lead developer less than 4 months after release.
SOE's problem isn't their security and they could have easily made it through this hack attack with minimal damage - their problem isn't even the quality of their games, because most seem to have aspects that players absolutely LOVE! In fact, I'd say SOE is the industry leader in "potential". SOE's core problem is that they place more value on the opinions of those who AREN'T playing their games than those who are. SOE has, for years, been more concerned with the players they didn't have than the ones they did.
I like Vanguard..but honestly ...at least SOE kept it on life support. They bought it because no one would and no one will ...touch it with a ten foot pole. Them trying to sell it to a company who will care for it would be great...finding someone who will buy it to begin with...that's the trick.
Yeah, I love how people bash SOE for this, acting like selling the game to some random independant developer will cure all it's woes. What people don't realize is that these major updates cost money, and without a player base, there isn't enough money coming in to fully develop the game. It's a vicious catch 22, but even if SOE sold Vanguard to another company, that company isn't likely to have enough funding to truly reinvigorate the game (as is the case in Ryzom) or they will simply buy it only to watch it whither and die while syphoning what little cash they can off of it, because adding developers and producing updates for an unproven product is too much of a financial risk.
There is a pretty active trend of companies buying up failed games and trying to relaunch them right now. I wouldn't go saying that no one would or has tried to buy vanguard from SOE. I've heard from a pretty good source that 2 offers have been made.
SOE didn't invest enough money to see vanguard launch in a completed fashion when they took over publishing rights from Microsoft. Then they didn't invest enough resources to properly relaunch the game after they bought it. Sure in some morbid sort of way people can feel "lucky" that vanguard is still limping around, but SOE didn't really save it from anything. They have actually done a rather poor job of developing the game aside from fixing some bugs.
Perhaps another company that didn't already have 2 fantasy mmos competing for the same audience as vanguard would be a little more motivated to make vanguard a success. What did SOE really benefit by purchasing a third game made by Brad McQauid?
It's hard to say honestly. Many of us 'Disgruntled Minority' felt sure SOE wouldn't survive what happened with SWG. Yet here we are 5 1/2 years later watching as SOE yet again gets involved with yet another community outcry.
Slapshot1188 may have said it best. It's not whether SOE can, or will it survive, but should it?
Any other company, from game development, to cars, cell phones, clothing, and beyond who has had the rocky career SOE has had, probably wouldn't survive. Let alone keep the same CEO at the Helm, diving the ship straight at the iceberg.
DCUO hasn't performed as the saviour they hoped for, and as a result Agency was cancelled, and staff layoffs began even before this recent hacker attack.
We see post after post of hate, anger, and 'I will never play a Sony game again' yet somehow they continue on.
Perhaps SOE isn't the Titanic and the iceberg, a catastrauphic collision with disaster, and loss, but more Road Runner & Coyote. No matter how many failures, blunders, miss-steps, and explosions the SOE Coyote has. He returns with more ACME ways to snare his elusive prey. The customer dollar ( Road Runner )
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
- their problem isn't even the quality of their games, because most seem to have aspects that players absolutely LOVE! In fact, I'd say SOE is the industry leader in "potential". SOE's core problem is that they place more value on the opinions of those who AREN'T playing their games than those who are. SOE has, for years, been more concerned with the players they didn't have than the ones they did.
Hit the nail on the head with this one. SOE's games, EQ, EQ2, and VG, are my favorites of all the MMOs I've tried. I love the games and detest SOE. They treat the customers they do have with disrespect and contempt. I really do hope SOE does make it, just changes the way it does things. SOE could take a few cues about customer relations from several of their competitors.
I actually feel a bit sorry for SOE over the whole hacking debacle. I wasn't subscribed to any SOE games when it occurred, but I am now enjoying the 45 days and likely will subscribe again after the free days run out. The hackers didn't get anything from me that couldn't be obtained from a phone book, so I'm not terribly worried about it.; though I did get a new CC as a precautionary measure.
[1] "SOE didn't invest enough money to see Vanguard launch in a completed fashion when they took over publishing rights from Microsoft?" -- source?
[2] Development for Vanguard began five years before its release date, and McQuaid simply promised more than he could deliver within a reasonable timeframe. You seem to blame SOE for not funding Vanguard after Microsoft dropped them, but what caused Microsoft to drop them in the first place?
Secondly, I would say SOE did a pretty good job with updates given the fact that the game pretty much tanked and the original developer went backrupt with their employees fired in the office parking lot. Despite the relatively rapid decline in population, SOE added content, fixed numerous bugs, and actually made the game playable at max settings for those of us without $6,000 dollar PCs. You never saw long term support for Vanguard because the population simply dropped below a critical point. There were far too many bugs at release and endgame players were clamoring for new content, so instead of waiting on SOE to produce updates, they left the game. It became financially unfeasible to put so much support behind a dieing game. Even Everquest II doesn't get the kind of attention it did back in 2004-2005.
[3] If SOE sold Vanguard to another company, I see no reason why the same thing wouldn't happen again. The company would put forth some effort into trying to fix numerous bugs, but when it came down to producing a plethora of new content, I'm not sure Vanguard would bring in enough money to justify the expenses. In the end, because that game would probably be said company's primary source of income, VG's lifespan may be extended, but updates will be few and far between.
The better option, I think, is to turn Vanguard into a F2P title with a premium subscription.
[1]
''Microsoft had wanted to launch this thing in July of 2006,'' Mr. Smedley said. ''We felt like the game needed more time, and we have given it more time, but at some point enough is enough, and we have to ship the game and start generating revenue.''" NYTIMES SOURCE
Regarding the underlined portion of that quote, how do you think that worked out for Vanguard? Vanguard was obviously not ready for release and the decision to force a release sealed the games fate.
[2]
Sigil was a trainwreck, Microsoft correctly indentified it and cancelled the project. Why SOE didn't recognize this and on top of that allowed that failure to continue as the publisher of the game is completely on the head of SOE. Also it wasn't some critical drop in subs that cuased lack of support. Vanguard was purchased in a state that required more funding than it generated. SOE didn't do that.
After four years of developing the game what would you say is the crowning achievment of SOEs efforts in the game?
They fixed some bugs and finished some content that sigil had mostly completed before the purchase. It isn't like SOE spend the last four years making the game awesome. It is pretty much the same game that was released with some performance tweaks. Well SOE did add content for level 51-55 by reworking some ingame areas, but they only half finished that and then left players twisting in the wind. Good job!
[3]
At least Vanguard would have a developer working on the game, which is more than can be said right now.
Note that none of this means Sigil is without blame, but the moment SOE decided to publish the game they took responsibility for the outcome. They were holding the purse strings so they got to make the rules.
It is most likley to late for a revival of the game, but it still has more potential than many games the released after it. It is just to bad it was cut so short.
Any Sony game I would be interested in playing either now or in the past, is now currently plagued with RMT, or has a near non-existant development team.
Yes, I am one of theSWG Pre-CU vets. Sure I'm still bothered by it, but that alone hadn't put me off of SOE games... although admittedly it did keep me away from them for several years.
It's more than that though. The other two SOE games I would be interested in playing would be EQ2 and Vanguard. I have played EQ2, but I stopped playing because of all the RMT that was being put into the game, even after they repeatedly swore up and down that it would only be added to exchange servers. Then there's vanguard... a game I simply can't commit myself to. The game itself is decent, the concepts good, but it's been dumped into the station pass graveyard to die a death of no development.
All in all, SOE's past performance has been very lackluster the last several years. Their existing games are a mess due to mismanagement, and they don't seem to be showing that anything new they churn out won't be another DC Universe.
The future looks pretty bleak for SOE from what I'm seeing.
The only way that SOE can survive this latest debacle is for them to do 2 things. First, fire John Smedley immediately. Second, bring back SWG in its original form and begin supporting that game. There, I said it and now the disgruntled former SWG vets have had their say. Please continue the discourse.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, what I’d like to know from all of you in this week’s Grinds my Gears, is whether or not this security breach has in any way changed your opinions on SOE?
Hardly, considering my opinion of the company hasn't changed since late November 2005. I have maintained that SOE's games are theirs to do with as they please, even if it is counter to my or other customers wishes. Blatantly, brashly, SOE has strode forth in doing so, customer opinions be damned. Had the NGE not happened and had SOE addressed the bugs and issues of the game they had produced initially, growing that environment, then I'd still be a paying customer.
History as it is, that decision by SOE in 2005 left me personally wandering the back alleyways of MMO'dom trying to find a game to provide my next MMO home. Which I still haven't found to this day 6 years later. I've had a few apartments, but no MMO that gave all the character play options in such detail as SWG on the non-combat side of the coin.
So, in light of my personal experience, no, my opinion hasn't changed of them. I don't spend my nights casting voodoo spells for harm to come to the company however when something like this happens you can certainly find me with a large smile on my face. SOE tanking as a company doesn't concern me. They haven't made anything that I've wanted to play, nor have they introduced (since SWG) any MMO game play mechanics that I would hope to see in a future game. They've offered me as a MMO gamer and a customer nothing since 2005.
Such as that is I have no interest in seeing them succeed. In fact, I imagine for many "disgruntled SWG vets" whether they are the vocal sort or not news like this does chip away at that feeling of having one of your greatest MMO gaming experiences taken away from you and not being able to do a single thing about it.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
It's karmic justice. SOE gets everything they deserve in my opinion. They have treated their communities very poorly, one could even say antagonistically at times. Eventually they were going to piss off the wrong person or group of people.
Now perhaps the hackers had an agenda to undermine SOE, or perhaps it was just to steal info. But either way, SOE has put a lot of negative energy out into cyber space and eventually it comes back like a boomerang.
Will they make it? Probably so, limping along like their station access pass games. But they will no longer be big players. They will just be on the fringes, has beens who squandered talent and resources.
DC Universe was my last hope. They farged up, and now i'm totally done with them. Still, they have some interesting titles coming up ((EQ Next and Planetside), but due to SOE i'll never buy one of them.
I worry that the impact of this on MMOs is going to be far larger than most people appreciate at the moment. I would be surprised if this is really the first time one of these companies has had their billing database accessed, but the way it has snowballed into a PR catastrophe is a game-changer. The sheer cost of the cleanup means that the high-level beancounters in *all* companies are going to be adding a new risk factor to their spreadsheets when determining the cost-benefit of their games.
SOE made a lot of mistakes, but I would be surprised if there were not mistakes of a comparable scale lurking around many a server. The question is whether years of dealing with exploit-seekers has made MMO companies more resilent to attack than your average online business (and thus a less interesting target for the current breed of criminal blackhats) or whether the huge attack surface that a client-server game offers is going to start attracting trouble now that there is blood in the water.
Comments
I like Vanguard..but honestly ...at least SOE kept it on life support. They bought it because no one would and no one will ...touch it with a ten foot pole. Them trying to sell it to a company who will care for it would be great...finding someone who will buy it to begin with...that's the trick.
yep, why would they?
Shame though.
Yeah, I love how people bash SOE for this, acting like selling the game to some random independant developer will cure all it's woes. What people don't realize is that these major updates cost money, and without a player base, there isn't enough money coming in to fully develop the game. It's a vicious catch 22, but even if SOE sold Vanguard to another company, that company isn't likely to have enough funding to truly reinvigorate the game (as is the case in Ryzom) or they will simply buy it only to watch it whither and die while syphoning what little cash they can off of it, because adding developers and producing updates for an unproven product is too much of a financial risk.
They need to fire John Smedly and replace him with someone new.
Only then things will change and a new fresh wind might blew through the company.
As let's face it! John Smedly has been solely responsible for all their escapades and mishaps and so pretty much ran this once great company into the ground to the point where it is today!
Any CEO of any other company would have been fired long ago! But somehow John Smedley always escaped the dance and let his hardworking employees take the fall by several rounds of lay offs these past years! with a fairly huge one recently!
If they want to salvage this sitiuation and for SOE to have any future left, then they need to start kicking at the top and start replacing there! Not the talented and good people on the bottom!!!
If someone like CCP bought it, spent 6 months or so tweaking it, and relaunched it people would play it, I am sure
We will never know though, I think it's obvious SOE will shut it down before selling it on, because thats the kind of company they are (and an example of the reason they have the rep they do.)
No, the security breach really didn't impact my feelings on SOE. DCUO pretty much cemented my lack of faith in the company.
Can't argue with this. It does seem like ...with all the fire he draws that Smedly would have been replaced. I have a feeling nobody wants his job though.
@Barcrow
There is a pretty active trend of companies buying up failed games and trying to relaunch them right now. I wouldn't go saying that no one would or has tried to buy vanguard from SOE. I've heard from a pretty good source that 2 offers have been made.
@SuperXero89
SOE didn't invest enough money to see vanguard launch in a completed fashion when they took over publishing rights from Microsoft. Then they didn't invest enough resources to properly relaunch the game after they bought it. Sure in some morbid sort of way people can feel "lucky" that vanguard is still limping around, but SOE didn't really save it from anything. They have actually done a rather poor job of developing the game aside from fixing some bugs.
Perhaps another company that didn't already have 2 fantasy mmos competing for the same audience as vanguard would be a little more motivated to make vanguard a success. What did SOE really benefit by purchasing a third game made by Brad McQauid?
I've vote No.
Some people have seen enough Sony titles flop that the next 5 years of tiles are tainted for them. They'd have to be bribed or threatened by friends to come back, and even then might just take the bullet so they can go play something fun.
The hack looked really bad. Listen, we programmers and armchair security experts understand enough about what's going on that we can appreciate when a company is doing its best. We wouldn't mock a company that really tried for being hacked. Hell, Google Chrome has finally been hacked (and patched) and it was thought nigh-unhackable. Sony wasn't prepared to withstand a skillful attempt at breaching the system and they were less prepared in the PR department.
On top of that--It comes out recently that the password reset page has a disgusting and laughable vulnerability. Here's what a reliably secure url would look like
[psnsite].soe.com/preset?email=[user's email address]&skey=[hash of user's email address salted in some way with say their user id]
The only way to breach via the url would be to know the user id and exactly how the email address was spliced with the userid to create the has. You could further splice it ("salt") with any assortment of information. Their method, wtih birthdates, is vulnerable to brute force attacks if the assailant doesn't already know the birthdate.
So this password page, and the accompanying email was written by a guy who's associated with (if not directly part of) the effort to secure and stabilize the system.--
Good news for him though, thumbs up is only a rotated version of the symbol he should get.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
If SoE hires back on developers who are competent and doesn't push games out early, they have a great shot at coming back. But as is, they have a number of marginally profitable games coupled with a bad rep for massive failures. They're like the Wests version of the Korean F2P developers that create 15ish games, all of which barely manage to stay afloat.
"SOE didn't invest enough money to see Vanguard launch in a completed fashion when they took over publishing rights from Microsoft?" -- source?
Development for Vanguard began five years before its release date, and McQuaid simply promised more than he could deliver within a reasonable timeframe. You seem to blame SOE for not funding Vanguard after Microsoft dropped them, but what caused Microsoft to drop them in the first place?
Secondly, I would say SOE did a pretty good job with updates given the fact that the game pretty much tanked and the original developer went backrupt with their employees fired in the office parking lot. Despite the relatively rapid decline in population, SOE added content, fixed numerous bugs, and actually made the game playable at max settings for those of us without $6,000 dollar PCs. You never saw long term support for Vanguard because the population simply dropped below a critical point. There were far too many bugs at release and endgame players were clamoring for new content, so instead of waiting on SOE to produce updates, they left the game. It became financially unfeasible to put so much support behind a dieing game. Even Everquest II doesn't get the kind of attention it did back in 2004-2005.
If SOE sold Vanguard to another company, I see no reason why the same thing wouldn't happen again. The company would put forth some effort into trying to fix numerous bugs, but when it came down to producing a plethora of new content, I'm not sure Vanguard would bring in enough money to justify the expenses. In the end, because that game would probably be said company's primary source of income, VG's lifespan may be extended, but updates will be few and far between.
The better option, I think, is to turn Vanguard into a F2P title with a premium subscription.
Kudos Jon! Another good article this week!
No. The hack didn't change my opinion of SOE, mostly just cemented my feeling that it is a morally bankrupt company that values it's customers so little that it didn't even bother to protect their identities.
As you pointed out, SOE has let several big name IP games dwindle and die for no apparent reason. The developers pulled off of SWG to make DCUO ensured SWG would never reach its potential. DCUO was their chance to prove they knew gaming...and it's been (imo) an abysmal failure, not even appearing on STEAMS top 100 games these days, merging down to 4 servers and replacing their lead developer less than 4 months after release.
SOE's problem isn't their security and they could have easily made it through this hack attack with minimal damage - their problem isn't even the quality of their games, because most seem to have aspects that players absolutely LOVE! In fact, I'd say SOE is the industry leader in "potential". SOE's core problem is that they place more value on the opinions of those who AREN'T playing their games than those who are. SOE has, for years, been more concerned with the players they didn't have than the ones they did.
Well ..let's hope I'm wrong.
It's hard to say honestly. Many of us 'Disgruntled Minority' felt sure SOE wouldn't survive what happened with SWG. Yet here we are 5 1/2 years later watching as SOE yet again gets involved with yet another community outcry.
Slapshot1188 may have said it best. It's not whether SOE can, or will it survive, but should it?
Any other company, from game development, to cars, cell phones, clothing, and beyond who has had the rocky career SOE has had, probably wouldn't survive. Let alone keep the same CEO at the Helm, diving the ship straight at the iceberg.
DCUO hasn't performed as the saviour they hoped for, and as a result Agency was cancelled, and staff layoffs began even before this recent hacker attack.
We see post after post of hate, anger, and 'I will never play a Sony game again' yet somehow they continue on.
Perhaps SOE isn't the Titanic and the iceberg, a catastrauphic collision with disaster, and loss, but more Road Runner & Coyote. No matter how many failures, blunders, miss-steps, and explosions the SOE Coyote has. He returns with more ACME ways to snare his elusive prey. The customer dollar ( Road Runner )
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
Hit the nail on the head with this one. SOE's games, EQ, EQ2, and VG, are my favorites of all the MMOs I've tried. I love the games and detest SOE. They treat the customers they do have with disrespect and contempt. I really do hope SOE does make it, just changes the way it does things. SOE could take a few cues about customer relations from several of their competitors.
I actually feel a bit sorry for SOE over the whole hacking debacle. I wasn't subscribed to any SOE games when it occurred, but I am now enjoying the 45 days and likely will subscribe again after the free days run out. The hackers didn't get anything from me that couldn't be obtained from a phone book, so I'm not terribly worried about it.; though I did get a new CC as a precautionary measure.
[1]
''Microsoft had wanted to launch this thing in July of 2006,'' Mr. Smedley said. ''We felt like the game needed more time, and we have given it more time, but at some point enough is enough, and we have to ship the game and start generating revenue.''" NYTIMES SOURCE
Regarding the underlined portion of that quote, how do you think that worked out for Vanguard? Vanguard was obviously not ready for release and the decision to force a release sealed the games fate.
[2]
Sigil was a trainwreck, Microsoft correctly indentified it and cancelled the project. Why SOE didn't recognize this and on top of that allowed that failure to continue as the publisher of the game is completely on the head of SOE. Also it wasn't some critical drop in subs that cuased lack of support. Vanguard was purchased in a state that required more funding than it generated. SOE didn't do that.
After four years of developing the game what would you say is the crowning achievment of SOEs efforts in the game?
They fixed some bugs and finished some content that sigil had mostly completed before the purchase. It isn't like SOE spend the last four years making the game awesome. It is pretty much the same game that was released with some performance tweaks. Well SOE did add content for level 51-55 by reworking some ingame areas, but they only half finished that and then left players twisting in the wind. Good job!
[3]
At least Vanguard would have a developer working on the game, which is more than can be said right now.
Note that none of this means Sigil is without blame, but the moment SOE decided to publish the game they took responsibility for the outcome. They were holding the purse strings so they got to make the rules.
It is most likley to late for a revival of the game, but it still has more potential than many games the released after it. It is just to bad it was cut so short.
Possible, but not likely.
Any Sony game I would be interested in playing either now or in the past, is now currently plagued with RMT, or has a near non-existant development team.
Yes, I am one of theSWG Pre-CU vets. Sure I'm still bothered by it, but that alone hadn't put me off of SOE games... although admittedly it did keep me away from them for several years.
It's more than that though. The other two SOE games I would be interested in playing would be EQ2 and Vanguard. I have played EQ2, but I stopped playing because of all the RMT that was being put into the game, even after they repeatedly swore up and down that it would only be added to exchange servers. Then there's vanguard... a game I simply can't commit myself to. The game itself is decent, the concepts good, but it's been dumped into the station pass graveyard to die a death of no development.
All in all, SOE's past performance has been very lackluster the last several years. Their existing games are a mess due to mismanagement, and they don't seem to be showing that anything new they churn out won't be another DC Universe.
The future looks pretty bleak for SOE from what I'm seeing.
The only way that SOE can survive this latest debacle is for them to do 2 things. First, fire John Smedley immediately. Second, bring back SWG in its original form and begin supporting that game. There, I said it and now the disgruntled former SWG vets have had their say. Please continue the discourse.
John has needed to step down for a long long time. The guy just isn't good at his job.
But somewhere he has "pictures" of high level Sony Executives in compromising positions which seems to ensure his retention.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, what I’d like to know from all of you in this week’s Grinds my Gears, is whether or not this security breach has in any way changed your opinions on SOE?
Hardly, considering my opinion of the company hasn't changed since late November 2005. I have maintained that SOE's games are theirs to do with as they please, even if it is counter to my or other customers wishes. Blatantly, brashly, SOE has strode forth in doing so, customer opinions be damned. Had the NGE not happened and had SOE addressed the bugs and issues of the game they had produced initially, growing that environment, then I'd still be a paying customer.
History as it is, that decision by SOE in 2005 left me personally wandering the back alleyways of MMO'dom trying to find a game to provide my next MMO home. Which I still haven't found to this day 6 years later. I've had a few apartments, but no MMO that gave all the character play options in such detail as SWG on the non-combat side of the coin.
So, in light of my personal experience, no, my opinion hasn't changed of them. I don't spend my nights casting voodoo spells for harm to come to the company however when something like this happens you can certainly find me with a large smile on my face. SOE tanking as a company doesn't concern me. They haven't made anything that I've wanted to play, nor have they introduced (since SWG) any MMO game play mechanics that I would hope to see in a future game. They've offered me as a MMO gamer and a customer nothing since 2005.
Such as that is I have no interest in seeing them succeed. In fact, I imagine for many "disgruntled SWG vets" whether they are the vocal sort or not news like this does chip away at that feeling of having one of your greatest MMO gaming experiences taken away from you and not being able to do a single thing about it.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
It's karmic justice. SOE gets everything they deserve in my opinion. They have treated their communities very poorly, one could even say antagonistically at times. Eventually they were going to piss off the wrong person or group of people.
Now perhaps the hackers had an agenda to undermine SOE, or perhaps it was just to steal info. But either way, SOE has put a lot of negative energy out into cyber space and eventually it comes back like a boomerang.
Will they make it? Probably so, limping along like their station access pass games. But they will no longer be big players. They will just be on the fringes, has beens who squandered talent and resources.
DC Universe was my last hope. They farged up, and now i'm totally done with them. Still, they have some interesting titles coming up ((EQ Next and Planetside), but due to SOE i'll never buy one of them.
I worry that the impact of this on MMOs is going to be far larger than most people appreciate at the moment. I would be surprised if this is really the first time one of these companies has had their billing database accessed, but the way it has snowballed into a PR catastrophe is a game-changer. The sheer cost of the cleanup means that the high-level beancounters in *all* companies are going to be adding a new risk factor to their spreadsheets when determining the cost-benefit of their games.
SOE made a lot of mistakes, but I would be surprised if there were not mistakes of a comparable scale lurking around many a server. The question is whether years of dealing with exploit-seekers has made MMO companies more resilent to attack than your average online business (and thus a less interesting target for the current breed of criminal blackhats) or whether the huge attack surface that a client-server game offers is going to start attracting trouble now that there is blood in the water.