If you want to say that they use technology, then show me technology. They point out themsleves that their own golems are made of spells, runes, and incantations. Where, in technology, are spells, runes, and incantations used? This is what you need to show, you need to show where they're using technology and not magic.
1) In the bottom right of your post is a button that says "Edit".
2) If you want to keep this discussion going then make a thread for it or PM me.
Edit: If you want to add to your post after you finish it then use the Edit button.
Umm to add my two cents: studying and understanding the principles (of magic in this case) does not make it any technological...its like saying breeding special plants is somehow technological - you're just exploting the things u know about evolution...or when you are campfiring fish its not a technological even if you know fotons are accelerating atoms generating heat while oxygen reacts with fish fibre creating carbon etc..this is the same case with asuran magic - they exactly know how magic works which allows them to maker the most use of it..I hope this comparsion is understandable
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
im only scared how they balance classes both in pve and pvp. im going for ranger as i always in every mmo do but i feel my class will be weak like paper against guardian, engi, thief. really dont think pets will save the day at all and from start ill be skeptical to use them. we will see :-/
Complaning about how this is going to break your emersion are pointless cries we have all heard before and we know youll get over. Honestly as MMO vets you should have 2 worries alone that haunt you whats end game look like? And is PvP balanced? Beside those 2 things just about everything to do with this game looks more solid than anything we have seen in a long time from mechanics to cost its likely going to please many.
If you want to say that they use technology, then show me technology. They point out themsleves that their own golems are made of spells, runes, and incantations. Where, in technology, are spells, runes, and incantations used? This is what you need to show, you need to show where they're using technology and not magic.
1) In the bottom right of your post is a button that says "Edit".
2) If you want to keep this discussion going then make a thread for it or PM me.
Edit: If you want to add to your post after you finish it then use the Edit button.
Umm to add my two cents: studying and understanding the principles (of magic in this case) does not make it any technological...its like saying breeding special plants is somehow technological - you're just exploting the things u know about evolution...or when you are campfiring fish its not a technological even if you know fotons are accelerating atoms generating heat while oxygen reacts with fish fibre creating carbon etc..this is the same case with asuran magic - they exactly know how magic works which allows them to maker the most use of it..I hope this comparsion is understandable
please read the following and if u can wikipedia it for confirmation (thats where i got it)
Technology is the making, usage and knowledge of tools, techniques, crafts, systems or methods of organization in order to solve a problem or serve some purpose. The word technology comes from Greekτεχνολογ?α (technología); from τ?χνη (téchn?), meaning "art, skill, craft", and -λογ?α (-logía), meaning "study of-".[1] The term can either be applied generally or to specific areas: examples include construction technology, medical technology, and information technology.
BOOYAH! hehe sry just had to do that, but no seriously if you could controll the fabric of reality would you use mechanicle tools? instead of the vastly better method of manipulating reality via your super magic sciences?
please read the following and if u can wikipedia it for confirmation (thats where i got it)
Technology is the making, usage and knowledge of tools, techniques, crafts, systems or methods of organization in order to solve a problem or serve some purpose. The word technology comes from Greekτεχνολογ?α (technología); from τ?χνη (téchn?), meaning "art, skill, craft", and -λογ?α (-logía), meaning "study of-".[1] The term can either be applied generally or to specific areas: examples include construction technology, medical technology, and information technology.
BOOYAH! hehe sry just had to do that, but no seriously if you could controll the fabric of reality would you use mechanicle tools? instead of the vastly better method of manipulating reality via your super magic sciences?
K, I got WIKilled:)
But I think we're mixing apples and oranges when arguing about the word...the thing is engineer uses mechanical devices while asuran magical -- howgh!:)
On the other why would anyone use mechanical when they have magic ..well today people live in bamboo cottages or in skyscrapers as well..
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
please read the following and if u can wikipedia it for confirmation (thats where i got it)
Technology is the making, usage and knowledge of tools, techniques, crafts, systems or methods of organization in order to solve a problem or serve some purpose. The word technology comes from Greekτεχνολογ?α (technología); from τ?χνη (téchn?), meaning "art, skill, craft", and -λογ?α (-logía), meaning "study of-".[1] The term can either be applied generally or to specific areas: examples include construction technology, medical technology, and information technology.
BOOYAH! hehe sry just had to do that, but no seriously if you could controll the fabric of reality would you use mechanicle tools? instead of the vastly better method of manipulating reality via your super magic sciences?
K, I got WIKilled:)
But I think we're mixing apples and oranges when arguing about the word...the thing is engineer uses mechanical devices while asuran magical -- howgh!:)
On the other why would anyone use mechanical when they have magic ..well today people live in bamboo cottages or in skyscrapers as well..
heh yah and i think for the why its used argument we shud stop here we wud just go in circles and end up both being right,
"the large number of artists and their consistently brilliant creativity this changes my mind and I think having Asuran techno-magic, charr clockpunk, human rennaissance etc all melded in leads to the artists to massively expand their portfolios and create a very distinct IP and surprising and well realized IP with it's own style."
Sums it up well . . . looking forward to something nice and new in both style and play.
Naysayers . . well, really the game play is rather like a range shaman firing bolts and dropping totems that do all sorts of things (just change some model and textures). Anyway this engineer fits better with the game then a shaman . . people get all caught up in what things are named. Looking at play-stile this looks great.
Bazak has the right of it. It's science-magic, but it's not techno-magic, it can never be techno-magic because there is no technology implied or used in their magic. Their magic is a science to them, but it is not a technology. That would be like saying that Gandalf was a technologist. Which is clearly incorrect
Anyone with a half decent head on their shoulders is going to understand this.
Though the reason the charr are doing what they're doing is because magic isn't something they've earned, so they don't trust it, it was something given by the gods, so the asura can't just bend reality willy-nilly, they have to do so within a bunch of set confines defined by the gods. Now originally Abaddon wanted to just say, hey, let's give them completely unrestricted magicks, but the other gods were completely against that.
So the asura will always be labouring within those restrictions. The gods of Tyria seem like a highly advanced race of beings, and I think what the charr want to do is actually surpass the gods by going with the physical sciences rather than just labouring in their shadow. Whether any race believes in the gods or not, they were solely responsible for magic appearing on Tyria, and this is why even the so-called 'Flame Legion gods' were just agents of Abaddon.
The charr don't trust magic because of this. Abaddon used the Flame Legion to pretty much enslave the charr, so they want to become powerful enough to challenge Abaddon and all the other gods, eventually. Another thing to consider is that the magical fields extend only as far as Tyria, so once the charr start hitting space, there's going to be no magicks out there, because the system of magicks that the gods created is tied solely to Tyria.
So if you're wondering why someone would go with a purely mechanical path, it's because they know it'll put them behind, but eventually the charr are going too surpass asura science-magicks and even the gods, because this is the way to do it. If the charr were to rely solely on magicks, they'd constantly have to abide by restrictions set upon themselves by others, with their clockpunk approach, they don't have to do that.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the charr approach is that they don't want to be dependent on anyone but themselves. The asura are dependent on the Eternal Alchemy, which is their name for the systems of magic put in place by the gods, that's what the charr don't want. So yeah, they're going to be behind for now until they figure out how to pull ahead.
Eventually they're going to build grand technological engines which they'll use to bend reality themselves, not using magic but science (or SCIENCE! knowing fantasy, as it'll probably be a mix of clockpunk and atompunk when they do), and there's going to be no upper roof to stop them other than the physical laws of reality, which even the gods themselves must obey.
I guess I personally pefer the charr approach because I like being independent. If you rely on what's put there by someone else for you to use, you'll never truly excel at anything, you'll just sort of hit a roof andt hen begin to stagnate. The asura, for example, may likely never escape Tyria due to the Eternal Alchemy being linked to Tyria, but the charr might eventually build grand spaceships and orbital weapons platforms.
The fun thing is is that we've already seen how the charr are doing interesting things which can only be done with technology, such as their attack buggies and tanks, and a lot of the concept art shows things like helicopters, airships, and even mecha (and no, I'm not talking about the effigies here, but actual charr mecha). So that's all sorts of fun.
So, why do the charr go with the physical sciences?
Let's say that a powerful being came to reality today and said that, hey, you can become powerful entities and do lots of things but only within this roof we impose upon you. Some are going to go for that, but do you really think that our scientists, here on earth, would really stop researching and learning just because they now have a way to do a lot of what they wanted to do? Some are going to be stubborn, some are going to still be curious anyway, and that's the charr.
Also, it's worth noting that the charr aren't all about just mechanical technology either, but rather they want to get in on the ground floor with the physical sciences as a whole. Note the grenades that the Engineer uses - these are all developed by the charr and use no magic. So you have stuff like liquid nitrogen, flashbangs, glue guns, and so on. This is thanks to the Ash Legion.
Where the Iron Legion are pursuing mechanical technology, the Ash Legion are learning about chemical compounds and various sorts of chemistry, even biochemistry, and they're using that as medicines and poisons, or as other sorts of compounds that can aid people in their missions. The most ingenious realisations seem to be made at wartime, and it's the constant efforts of the Ash Legion to make new chemical compounds to would help them with that war effort that's given the Engineer those grenades to play with.
So the Engineer itself is the cumulative efforts of both the Iron Legion and the Ash Legion to create scholars which will have a practical impact on the battlefield, specialists in both technology and chemical compounds, in the physical sciences as a whole, knowledge that can be used to bring unique elements to the war. Essentially, the Engineer is the closest thing you'll get in Tyria to 'Scientist,' (in regards to the physical sciences, not the magical sciences), which is why I personally love the profession.
Right, explanation is done with, so... nothing more for me to say!
But hopefully that's cleared up a few questions. I've been ravenously reading and absorbing all information there is about the charr and the asura, because the charr are admittedly my overall favourite due to their leanings toward the physical sciences, and the asura come in second place because they do at least use some form of science, even if it's a hand-wavey magical science like the Eternal Alchemy.
i gained an interest in both in Guild Wars: Prophecies and Eye of the North, respectively, and haven't stopped reading about either since.
If that's TL;DR for some people: Charr are about the natural physical sciences, Asura are about the god-created magical sciences.
Asura actually don't believe in gods :P. They believe in the Eternal Alchemy which is basically a mathematical magical system of equations. The biggest equations in this system are what the other races identify as gods. But to the Asura everything is just another equation in this system of systems.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
If that's TL;DR for some people: Charr are about the natural physical sciences, Asura are about the god-created magical sciences.
Asura actually don't believe in gods :P. They believe in the Eternal Alchemy which is basically a mathematical magical system of equations. The biggest equations in this system are what the other races identify as gods. But to the Asura everything is just another equation in this system of systems.
Incorrect. The lore states that the asura believe that the gods are part of the Eternal Alchemy, which is a grand magical system that rules their world. Magical equations, magical sciences, all magic. It's all out there if you want to read it.
And that's my point. The charr don't want to labour under that system of magic, they want to surpass it, which is why they go with the physical sciences as opposed to the magical ones. Which is what I've been saying from the beginning. I've read this so many times in the books now that how anyone can have their heads in the sand about it is beyond me, unless they haven't read the same books that I have.
Incorrect. The lore states that the asura believe that the gods are part of the Eternal Alchemy, which is a grand magical system that rules their world. Magical equations, magical sciences, all magic. It's all out there if you want to read it.
The asura would say that the Eternal Alchemy is obviously a true way of looking at the universe, and that that human gods were merely functions in that equation (really BIG functions, but functions nonetheless).
Asura believe that what the humans define as gods are really BIG functions.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
It's also worth noting that if the asura are technologists, then where are their tanks and helicopters? You've been noted to have problems with logic before, gobla, and this is a glaring one. They have magical golems, golems which are clearly of magical construction. Yes, they use magical sciences, but it's still magic.
Trying to call an asura anything other than a mage is, as I said, like trying to call Gandalf a technologist. It's just silly. Gandalf isn't the sort of person to create guns, or tanks, or mix chemical compounds, he works with magic, much like the asura do. When the asura create a weather machine, they're doing that via their magical science - spells, runes, incantations, andsoforth as detailed in the two novels which you should have read.
The asura are steeped in magic, they do magic sciences, they don't do physical sciences. The physical sciences are the domain of the charr, as mentioned by ArenaNet many times. There have been tens of interviews where ArenaNet has said that the charr are their only technological race, or that the charr are by far their most advanced technological race. I wonder why they'd say that if it wasn't true? Want an example? Here's one! In fact, that's the same interview I linked before that apparently you didn't read. Here's another! Notice they talk about charr technology, and not asura technology.
You have to figure out why that is, and realise just how much nonsense is floating around here. Nonsense fuelled by guesswork, assumptions, wishful thinking, and not nearly enough reading.
Anyone who thinks that the asura are about the physical sciences is going to be massively, hugely disappointed when the game launches. They're about magic, they've made sciences of the magicks, the selfsame magicks that were put there by the gods. This isn't that hard to understand. And like I said, if they were using technology, I'd like to see applications of it, but they're clearly not, whereas the charr are.
TL;DR: Too much guesswork, not enough reading. Again: The Charr are about the physical sciences, as I said above, and the Asura are about the god-created magical sciences.
It's also worth noting that if the asura are technologists, then where are their tanks and helicopters? You've been noted to have problems with logic before, gobla, and this is a glaring one. They have magical golems, golems which are clearly of magical construction. Yes, they use magical sciences, but it's still magic.
Trying to call an asura anything other than a mage is, as I said, like trying to call Gandalf a technologist. It's just silly. Gandalf isn't the sort of person to create guns, or tanks, or mix chemical compounds, he works with magic, much like the asura do. When the asura create a weather machine, they're doing that via their magical science - spells, runes, incantations, andsoforth as detailed in the two novels which you should have read.
The asura are steeped in magic, they do magic sciences, they don't do physical sciences. The physical sciences are the domain of the charr, as mentioned by ArenaNet many times. There have been tens of interviews where ArenaNet has said that the charr are their only technological race, or that the charr are by far their most advanced technological race. I wonder why they'd say that if it wasn't true? Want an example? Here's one! In fact, that's the same interview I linked before that apparently you didn't read. Here's another! Notice they talk about charr technology, and not asura technology.
You have to figure out why that is, and realise just how much nonsense is floating around here. Nonsense fuelled by guesswork, assumptions, wishful thinking, and not nearly enough reading.
Anyone who thinks that the asura are about the physical sciences is going to be massively, hugely disappointed when the game launches. They're about magic, they've made sciences of the magicks, the selfsame magicks that were put there by the gods. This isn't that hard to understand. And like I said, if they were using technology, I'd like to see applications of it, but they're clearly not, whereas the charr are.
TL;DR: Too much guesswork, not enough reading. Again: The Charr are about the physical sciences, as I said above, and the Asura are about the god-created magical sciences.
Relax dude, it's just a friendly reminder.
Even if my previous logic was wrong, which is totally besides the issue, then that doesn't logically mean that my current logic is wrong. By that assumption your whole post itself is wrong since you made that single illogical statement.
I'm not arguing against any of what you say. Asura are about magic. They're just not about gods.
Asura are mages, they're not priests. They don't believe Balthazar, Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa, Grenth and Kormir are gods. They believe them to be equations. They don't talk about the god of war, Balthazar. They talk about the equation of war ( which they likely don't call Balthazar ).
TL;DR: Too many assumptions about my post. The Charr are about the physical sciences and the Asura are about the non-god-created magical sciences ( AKA just the magical sciences ).
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Ahh the fond memories of crushing & gutting Engineers in War! These boys tho... seem to have serious moxie! The Charr have had 250 years of dominance since they sent the puny refugees of Ascalon packing into Kryta. So now they come to the fore with Rifle, Flamethrowers, and grenades... As well as some totally savory Axes too
Peeps hate em cuz they 'Don't fit with the mythos or what a Fantasy MMO should be' but Anet crafts that to fit GW2 not any previous game or IP. Seems a dang fine job to me!! Primitive forms of grenades and Flamethrowers even precede pistol and rifle - the West was indeed behind the Mid/Far east in weaponry for centuries!
GW2 Engineer will be a blast (no pun intended) to play, and fit right in wit Guardian's that can repel missile weapons/magic with their force fields, and Rangers that can sling arrows machine gun style!! The action in this game will be Hawt!!
Had only planned a Char Warrior Main, but thinks his kid brother will just have to be an Engineer now! or at least... hopefully real soon!
Just to put the final nail of the coffin in this discussion regarding the charr versus the asura, I did some research, and I'll just finish up with some quotes.
So it's not as the disillusioned say it is, the asura aren't the most technologically advanced, and certainly not far more so than the charr, who excel in technological advancements. Gee, I wonder why that is?
I'm sure we'll still have some herpaderp fantasy landers who'll not be able to accept this and will live in a land of delusion and denial - far, far away from the reality of things. And I could name names, but I won't. But there it is, both from official sources.
The asura are magical, not technological. The charr are the most technologically advanced. In fact, insofar as the lore goes, even the humans are more technologically advanced than the asura, because the asura don't truck in technology.
It's funny, I could see an asura trying to "improve" a charr turret with magic. Then you'd see the charr and the asura out on the field, the charr's turret mercilessly and brutally mowing stuff down, becasue the charr are efficient like that (as their lore page says), but you'd have the magical inventor kicking their turret and shouting at it for being temperemental.
"Shouldn't have put a magical golem control crystal in it, now should you? I did warn you."
Comments
Umm to add my two cents: studying and understanding the principles (of magic in this case) does not make it any technological...its like saying breeding special plants is somehow technological - you're just exploting the things u know about evolution...or when you are campfiring fish its not a technological even if you know fotons are accelerating atoms generating heat while oxygen reacts with fish fibre creating carbon etc..this is the same case with asuran magic - they exactly know how magic works which allows them to maker the most use of it..I hope this comparsion is understandable
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Screw elementalist, totally going engineer!!!
They balance PvE and PvP separately.
Complaning about how this is going to break your emersion are pointless cries we have all heard before and we know youll get over. Honestly as MMO vets you should have 2 worries alone that haunt you whats end game look like? And is PvP balanced? Beside those 2 things just about everything to do with this game looks more solid than anything we have seen in a long time from mechanics to cost its likely going to please many.
please read the following and if u can wikipedia it for confirmation (thats where i got it)
Technology is the making, usage and knowledge of tools, techniques, crafts, systems or methods of organization in order to solve a problem or serve some purpose. The word technology comes from Greek τεχνολογ?α (technología); from τ?χνη (téchn?), meaning "art, skill, craft", and -λογ?α (-logía), meaning "study of-".[1] The term can either be applied generally or to specific areas: examples include construction technology, medical technology, and information technology.
BOOYAH! hehe sry just had to do that, but no seriously if you could controll the fabric of reality would you use mechanicle tools? instead of the vastly better method of manipulating reality via your super magic sciences?
K, I got WIKilled:)
But I think we're mixing apples and oranges when arguing about the word...the thing is engineer uses mechanical devices while asuran magical -- howgh!:)
On the other why would anyone use mechanical when they have magic ..well today people live in bamboo cottages or in skyscrapers as well..
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
heh yah and i think for the why its used argument we shud stop here we wud just go in circles and end up both being right,
[IMG][URL]http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg
[/IMG][/URL]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Guess what there realy is a commando class!
[IMG][URL]http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg
[/IMG][/URL]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
"the large number of artists and their consistently brilliant creativity this changes my mind and I think having Asuran techno-magic, charr clockpunk, human rennaissance etc all melded in leads to the artists to massively expand their portfolios and create a very distinct IP and surprising and well realized IP with it's own style."
Sums it up well . . . looking forward to something nice and new in both style and play.
Naysayers . . well, really the game play is rather like a range shaman firing bolts and dropping totems that do all sorts of things (just change some model and textures). Anyway this engineer fits better with the game then a shaman . . people get all caught up in what things are named. Looking at play-stile this looks great.
Bazak has the right of it. It's science-magic, but it's not techno-magic, it can never be techno-magic because there is no technology implied or used in their magic. Their magic is a science to them, but it is not a technology. That would be like saying that Gandalf was a technologist. Which is clearly incorrect
Anyone with a half decent head on their shoulders is going to understand this.
Though the reason the charr are doing what they're doing is because magic isn't something they've earned, so they don't trust it, it was something given by the gods, so the asura can't just bend reality willy-nilly, they have to do so within a bunch of set confines defined by the gods. Now originally Abaddon wanted to just say, hey, let's give them completely unrestricted magicks, but the other gods were completely against that.
So the asura will always be labouring within those restrictions. The gods of Tyria seem like a highly advanced race of beings, and I think what the charr want to do is actually surpass the gods by going with the physical sciences rather than just labouring in their shadow. Whether any race believes in the gods or not, they were solely responsible for magic appearing on Tyria, and this is why even the so-called 'Flame Legion gods' were just agents of Abaddon.
The charr don't trust magic because of this. Abaddon used the Flame Legion to pretty much enslave the charr, so they want to become powerful enough to challenge Abaddon and all the other gods, eventually. Another thing to consider is that the magical fields extend only as far as Tyria, so once the charr start hitting space, there's going to be no magicks out there, because the system of magicks that the gods created is tied solely to Tyria.
So if you're wondering why someone would go with a purely mechanical path, it's because they know it'll put them behind, but eventually the charr are going too surpass asura science-magicks and even the gods, because this is the way to do it. If the charr were to rely solely on magicks, they'd constantly have to abide by restrictions set upon themselves by others, with their clockpunk approach, they don't have to do that.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the charr approach is that they don't want to be dependent on anyone but themselves. The asura are dependent on the Eternal Alchemy, which is their name for the systems of magic put in place by the gods, that's what the charr don't want. So yeah, they're going to be behind for now until they figure out how to pull ahead.
Eventually they're going to build grand technological engines which they'll use to bend reality themselves, not using magic but science (or SCIENCE! knowing fantasy, as it'll probably be a mix of clockpunk and atompunk when they do), and there's going to be no upper roof to stop them other than the physical laws of reality, which even the gods themselves must obey.
I guess I personally pefer the charr approach because I like being independent. If you rely on what's put there by someone else for you to use, you'll never truly excel at anything, you'll just sort of hit a roof andt hen begin to stagnate. The asura, for example, may likely never escape Tyria due to the Eternal Alchemy being linked to Tyria, but the charr might eventually build grand spaceships and orbital weapons platforms.
The fun thing is is that we've already seen how the charr are doing interesting things which can only be done with technology, such as their attack buggies and tanks, and a lot of the concept art shows things like helicopters, airships, and even mecha (and no, I'm not talking about the effigies here, but actual charr mecha). So that's all sorts of fun.
So, why do the charr go with the physical sciences?
Let's say that a powerful being came to reality today and said that, hey, you can become powerful entities and do lots of things but only within this roof we impose upon you. Some are going to go for that, but do you really think that our scientists, here on earth, would really stop researching and learning just because they now have a way to do a lot of what they wanted to do? Some are going to be stubborn, some are going to still be curious anyway, and that's the charr.
Also, it's worth noting that the charr aren't all about just mechanical technology either, but rather they want to get in on the ground floor with the physical sciences as a whole. Note the grenades that the Engineer uses - these are all developed by the charr and use no magic. So you have stuff like liquid nitrogen, flashbangs, glue guns, and so on. This is thanks to the Ash Legion.
Where the Iron Legion are pursuing mechanical technology, the Ash Legion are learning about chemical compounds and various sorts of chemistry, even biochemistry, and they're using that as medicines and poisons, or as other sorts of compounds that can aid people in their missions. The most ingenious realisations seem to be made at wartime, and it's the constant efforts of the Ash Legion to make new chemical compounds to would help them with that war effort that's given the Engineer those grenades to play with.
So the Engineer itself is the cumulative efforts of both the Iron Legion and the Ash Legion to create scholars which will have a practical impact on the battlefield, specialists in both technology and chemical compounds, in the physical sciences as a whole, knowledge that can be used to bring unique elements to the war. Essentially, the Engineer is the closest thing you'll get in Tyria to 'Scientist,' (in regards to the physical sciences, not the magical sciences), which is why I personally love the profession.
Right, explanation is done with, so... nothing more for me to say!
But hopefully that's cleared up a few questions. I've been ravenously reading and absorbing all information there is about the charr and the asura, because the charr are admittedly my overall favourite due to their leanings toward the physical sciences, and the asura come in second place because they do at least use some form of science, even if it's a hand-wavey magical science like the Eternal Alchemy.
i gained an interest in both in Guild Wars: Prophecies and Eye of the North, respectively, and haven't stopped reading about either since.
If that's TL;DR for some people: Charr are about the natural physical sciences, Asura are about the god-created magical sciences.
Asura actually don't believe in gods :P. They believe in the Eternal Alchemy which is basically a mathematical magical system of equations. The biggest equations in this system are what the other races identify as gods. But to the Asura everything is just another equation in this system of systems.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Incorrect. The lore states that the asura believe that the gods are part of the Eternal Alchemy, which is a grand magical system that rules their world. Magical equations, magical sciences, all magic. It's all out there if you want to read it.
And that's my point. The charr don't want to labour under that system of magic, they want to surpass it, which is why they go with the physical sciences as opposed to the magical ones. Which is what I've been saying from the beginning. I've read this so many times in the books now that how anyone can have their heads in the sand about it is beyond me, unless they haven't read the same books that I have.
From Jeff Grub:
The asura would say that the Eternal Alchemy is obviously a true way of looking at the universe, and that that human gods were merely functions in that equation (really BIG functions, but functions nonetheless).
Asura believe that what the humans define as gods are really BIG functions.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
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It's also worth noting that if the asura are technologists, then where are their tanks and helicopters? You've been noted to have problems with logic before, gobla, and this is a glaring one. They have magical golems, golems which are clearly of magical construction. Yes, they use magical sciences, but it's still magic.
Trying to call an asura anything other than a mage is, as I said, like trying to call Gandalf a technologist. It's just silly. Gandalf isn't the sort of person to create guns, or tanks, or mix chemical compounds, he works with magic, much like the asura do. When the asura create a weather machine, they're doing that via their magical science - spells, runes, incantations, andsoforth as detailed in the two novels which you should have read.
The asura are steeped in magic, they do magic sciences, they don't do physical sciences. The physical sciences are the domain of the charr, as mentioned by ArenaNet many times. There have been tens of interviews where ArenaNet has said that the charr are their only technological race, or that the charr are by far their most advanced technological race. I wonder why they'd say that if it wasn't true? Want an example? Here's one! In fact, that's the same interview I linked before that apparently you didn't read. Here's another! Notice they talk about charr technology, and not asura technology.
You have to figure out why that is, and realise just how much nonsense is floating around here. Nonsense fuelled by guesswork, assumptions, wishful thinking, and not nearly enough reading.
Anyone who thinks that the asura are about the physical sciences is going to be massively, hugely disappointed when the game launches. They're about magic, they've made sciences of the magicks, the selfsame magicks that were put there by the gods. This isn't that hard to understand. And like I said, if they were using technology, I'd like to see applications of it, but they're clearly not, whereas the charr are.
TL;DR: Too much guesswork, not enough reading. Again: The Charr are about the physical sciences, as I said above, and the Asura are about the god-created magical sciences.
Relax dude, it's just a friendly reminder.
Even if my previous logic was wrong, which is totally besides the issue, then that doesn't logically mean that my current logic is wrong. By that assumption your whole post itself is wrong since you made that single illogical statement.
I'm not arguing against any of what you say. Asura are about magic. They're just not about gods.
Asura are mages, they're not priests. They don't believe Balthazar, Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa, Grenth and Kormir are gods. They believe them to be equations. They don't talk about the god of war, Balthazar. They talk about the equation of war ( which they likely don't call Balthazar ).
TL;DR: Too many assumptions about my post. The Charr are about the physical sciences and the Asura are about the non-god-created magical sciences ( AKA just the magical sciences ).
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Ahh the fond memories of crushing & gutting Engineers in War! These boys tho... seem to have serious moxie! The Charr have had 250 years of dominance since they sent the puny refugees of Ascalon packing into Kryta. So now they come to the fore with Rifle, Flamethrowers, and grenades... As well as some totally savory Axes too
Peeps hate em cuz they 'Don't fit with the mythos or what a Fantasy MMO should be' but Anet crafts that to fit GW2 not any previous game or IP. Seems a dang fine job to me!! Primitive forms of grenades and Flamethrowers even precede pistol and rifle - the West was indeed behind the Mid/Far east in weaponry for centuries!
GW2 Engineer will be a blast (no pun intended) to play, and fit right in wit Guardian's that can repel missile weapons/magic with their force fields, and Rangers that can sling arrows machine gun style!! The action in this game will be Hawt!!
Had only planned a Char Warrior Main, but thinks his kid brother will just have to be an Engineer now! or at least... hopefully real soon!
Wow, I'm definitely going to play Engineer.
I've always liked the idea of being able to do a ton of stuff that's awesome and still do enough damage by yourself.
Just to put the final nail of the coffin in this discussion regarding the charr versus the asura, I did some research, and I'll just finish up with some quotes.
"[The charr] are the most technologically advanced race." (A second source.)
So it's not as the disillusioned say it is, the asura aren't the most technologically advanced, and certainly not far more so than the charr, who excel in technological advancements. Gee, I wonder why that is?
Protip: "[The asura are a] subterranean race of magical inventors."
Well look at that! Go figure! It's just like I've been saying all along. And you don't get more official than the bloody race pages.
I'm sure we'll still have some herpaderp fantasy landers who'll not be able to accept this and will live in a land of delusion and denial - far, far away from the reality of things. And I could name names, but I won't. But there it is, both from official sources.
The asura are magical, not technological. The charr are the most technologically advanced. In fact, insofar as the lore goes, even the humans are more technologically advanced than the asura, because the asura don't truck in technology.
It's funny, I could see an asura trying to "improve" a charr turret with magic. Then you'd see the charr and the asura out on the field, the charr's turret mercilessly and brutally mowing stuff down, becasue the charr are efficient like that (as their lore page says), but you'd have the magical inventor kicking their turret and shouting at it for being temperemental.
"Shouldn't have put a magical golem control crystal in it, now should you? I did warn you."