And besides, why can't a game be an MMORPG because there isn't any combat? Thats a friggen joke and is part of the reason this debate comes up. Some people want to play a game that isn't just grinding mobs all day. Go figure!
Should we strip ATITD of its mmorpg title because it isn't combat heavy? Here is how they describe their game:
"A Tale in the Desert is a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game (MMO) set in ancient Egypt. The game focuses on crafting and trading, mixed with strong social challenges."
Why does combat even have to be a part of an MMORPG? Where is that rule written? To be an MMORPG a game has to be massively multiplayer and roleplaying. One could argue that every game with any kind of character building or narrative is roleplaying because you are playing the role of that character, so all they have to do is fill the massively multiplayer requirement.
What about people who LARP? Are they not roleplaying because they aren't killing mobs? Go to a rennaissance festival, isn't that "massively multiplayer" in a way?
BUT WHERE IS THE MOB KILLING!?
On this I agree, nowhere in the abreviation does it say it should involve killing or have it as the main focus. The more paths of progression, the better. Thing is, doubt many will play one without any combat at all and think that's where the whole they must have combat comes from.
Or, you could say that Portal is as much an FPS as Second Life, Puzzle Pirates, World of Tanks, Vindictus and LOVE are MMORPG's, which in a sense might be regarded like that too
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
We all know we're tired of the gaming industries inability to mix things up.
We all know WoW is the king of MMO's right now, whether we like it or not.
We all know that the majority of people who came into the community with themepark games are responsible for the terrible community.
We all know that WoW is evil and caused most of these problems. It's not in human nature to be a dick. (/sarcasm)
But still, the new games get awesome ratings because either we posters are wrong or there is a serious disconnect between the industry and the players.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
We all know we're tired of the gaming industries inability to mix things up.
We all know WoW is the king of MMO's right now, whether we like it or not.
We all know that the majority of people who came into the community with themepark games are responsible for the terrible community.
We all know that WoW is evil and caused most of these problems. It's not in human nature to be a dick. (/sarcasm)
But still, the new games get awesome ratings because either we posters are wrong or there is a serious disconnect between the industry and the players.
Of course the posters are wrong. Just look at the sales of high rated games .. and count how many of those are combat-centric. For every Portal, there are 20 Call of Duty.
The reason is simple, human has an fundamental attraction to violence. That is why 99% of the MMOs are combat centric. It is precisely because developers understand what entertain the masses. Ditto for movies.
And besides, why can't a game be an MMORPG because there isn't any combat? Thats a friggen joke and is part of the reason this debate comes up. Some people want to play a game that isn't just grinding mobs all day. Go figure!
Should we strip ATITD of its mmorpg title because it isn't combat heavy? Here is how they describe their game:
"A Tale in the Desert is a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game (MMO) set in ancient Egypt. The game focuses on crafting and trading, mixed with strong social challenges."
Why does combat even have to be a part of an MMORPG? Where is that rule written? To be an MMORPG a game has to be massively multiplayer and roleplaying. One could argue that every game with any kind of character building or narrative is roleplaying because you are playing the role of that character, so all they have to do is fill the massively multiplayer requirement.
What about people who LARP? Are they not roleplaying because they aren't killing mobs? Go to a rennaissance festival, isn't that "massively multiplayer" in a way?
BUT WHERE IS THE MOB KILLING!?
On this I agree, nowhere in the abreviation does it say it should involve killing or have it as the main focus. The more paths of progression, the better. Thing is, doubt many will play one without any combat at all and think that's where the whole they must have combat comes from.
I agree with you, but I also think combat should be intuitive, fresh, and creative. At this point I would rather have no combat than derivative or bad combat.
Witcher 2 is a fine example of a game that has flaws, but is still the top of its genre.
I myself am tired of the LONG production times, and the excuses we get for lack of ingenuity and innovation.
I mean with all the clones, this process should of been streamlined by now.
I despise the fact that I can watch a 60 minute video of nothing but gameplay, but I left in utero waiting for release.
I think a part of it is Devs/publishers/investers/who knows trying to push a game out too quick without it being finished to make a quick buck. That and nobody except the big guys know how to market a game
I would like to see a high budget action MMO, the whole GCD or animation length style of abilty based combat and the holy trinity is washed up and boring. Hellgate london and vindictus have pretty good combat, but the rest of the game and the repetivness of the dungeon grinding in the same looking dungeons is abit of a bore.
Oh yes...and atleast if somebody is going to make a PvP MMORPG...make it massive, or leave a M out when you market your game.
We have no one to blame but ourselves. If other industries do this, they either adapt to the market or they fold. If I made a car or owned a restaruant and my customers expected x level of service/performance and then I stopped providing it....would people still buy my car? Would they continue to frequent my establishment?
Do you travel? Have you ever flown into a city or visited your family and always went to the same store or restaurant? One day you do this and it's under new management and now sucks? Would you go back? Or would you lament about how it used to be?
Stop buying trash. I refuse to purchase games, like Rift not b/c it's graphically displeasing(quite the opposite), nor because it's not a challenge. I don't buy it b/c it's is a retread of every other themepark nonsense on the market. If that type of game appeals to you, and it does apparently to many, then enjoy.
I support with my subscription. I pay for EvE, I don't purchase PLEX's for a reason. I have plenty of isk to do it...I CHOOSE not to. I buy 1 year at a time b/c I CHOOSE to support what CCP is doing. If they develop WoD and it's what I like, I will support that as well.
Trials are supplied to us as customers to determine if we like the product. If i do a trial, and have done many, and I like it...I will purchase and sub the game. If not, I move on. Crying about it doesn't do anything. I think due to the nature of "gaming" it draws a crowd of people that used to going to their parents, supervisors, etc and expecting help.
You don't see many forums to complain about how poor off shore boats perform. I haven't read to many forums about why "x" parachute has known problems. Why? People won't buy trash. Boating, Skydiving, Scuba diving, etc are all forms of entertainment. Yet many feel compelled to buy poop, chew on it a while and then complain about it.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
what other site is biggger than this that focuses on mmo's?
wouldnt you think that the developers would take sometime to bs on here as we all do, and interject their perspective and their succeses and failures.
not ever have I seen one comment on their story, be it the review or a production interview.
Developers do come here, quite often, sometimes posting with their real names. Many do not reveal themselves though I imagine as you know, some of us can be quite harsh. Usually when a big name developer posts something on a fan site as him/herself, it usually doesn't go well, at least from what I have seen.
SWG did it right when it first came out, everything was player generated, there were no quests. Maybe there were quests but I played it for 3 months without doing a single one. Someone should expand on that idea.
Different strokes for different folks. My brother played swg for years, I played it for less than a month and thought it was the most horrible boring peice of clap trap I've ever played.
And there were lots of missions in that game. I well remember going to those terminals every hour or so.
On the other hand I like Istaria (Hz) more than most of the other games, and most find that game horrible.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The OP makes little sense. If 'killing' things is what's making you stop playing this genre (an RPG no less) then pick up Free Realms or Need for Speed world. Last I checked, they don't have any killing stuff.
This genre is so expansive now that all sorts of playstyle can be accomodated.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I grew tired of the MMORPG genre until i started Rift, it ignited my passion for it again XD.
Its good to get some varity in your gaming, play the same genre over and over and u naturally get bored, which is why i mix it up alot.
I see mmo genres as solutions to my moods, usually when im happy and content i play MMORPG, or if im just in a bad mood ill play a MMOFPS or MOBA, theres nothing like killing other players to make you feel happy again XD
Different strokes for different folks. My brother played swg for years, I played it for less than a month and thought it was the most horrible boring peice of clap trap I've ever played.
And there were lots of missions in that game. I well remember going to those terminals every hour or so.
On the other hand I like Istaria (Hz) more than most of the other games, and most find that game horrible.
Venge
Of course it's crap now. When someone says SWG they typically say Pre-CU SWG or Pre-NGE SWG, meaning it was a worthwile game X time ago, not today; it's not a worthwhile game today. I said "When SWG first came out", same thing.
Why is that a problem? At least those people are enjoying the gaming genre that they're following, instead of being unhappy and moan about the past and have to resort to nothing but powerless reading the news of a genre that provides them no enjoyment anymore since there's hardly an MMO that gets them that MMO high anymore.
Seems to me that the first group is having way more fun with the gaming genre they're following and interested in
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am looking forward to at least one game that is on the horizon. Meanwhile I satisfy myself knowing I am helping to contribute in my own way to those hundreds of thousands of players who feel they have nothing else to play.
Most of the time I find out they have only played the 'top' tier MMO's, and haven;t even tried to look at some of the smaller titles out there.
How can you really comment on the genre being tired unless you have tried at least a few games from all tiers of the genre?
Go on, give it a try. Pick a random game from the MMORPG.com list and play it for a few days. If for nothing else, it will broaden your worldview of what is actually out there.
Im tired of the whole "we need to please everyone" way of thinking. Make MMO's for casuals and make MMO's for people who have played for years and enjoy thinking a bit. Can't stand companies like Blizzard that produce something decent then make it into a kids game years later. I do blame the community as there is a lot players now that just should stick to their 360's and PS3's. If I want to play a quick fun game I go play my PS3 cause thats what its there for. If I want to spend 12 hours in a day questing, PvP'ing and raiding i'll play a MMO.
I have to admit that there are many things in the genre that tires me.
The limited endgame, how 95% of the content gets easier and easier, how the world sizes of new games shrink and the fact that most quests still are rat catching quests and how they use the same boring mechanics without even trying something new.
But there are good things in the games as well, the real problem here is that MMOs either are themeparks that changed very little since Meridian 59 or badly coded indie games that might have fine ideas but so buggy thta they are painful to play.
Just a few games with competent coding and different mechanics would strenghten up the genre a lot.
Comments
On this I agree, nowhere in the abreviation does it say it should involve killing or have it as the main focus. The more paths of progression, the better. Thing is, doubt many will play one without any combat at all and think that's where the whole they must have combat comes from.
I'm going with how wikipedia describes Portal: "Portal is a single-player puzzle-platform video game developed by Valve Corporation."
Or, you could say that Portal is as much an FPS as Second Life, Puzzle Pirates, World of Tanks, Vindictus and LOVE are MMORPG's, which in a sense might be regarded like that too
/offtopic
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Just really tired of threads like this...
We all know we're tired of the gaming industries inability to mix things up.
We all know WoW is the king of MMO's right now, whether we like it or not.
We all know that the majority of people who came into the community with themepark games are responsible for the terrible community.
We all know that WoW is evil and caused most of these problems. It's not in human nature to be a dick. (/sarcasm)
But still, the new games get awesome ratings because either we posters are wrong or there is a serious disconnect between the industry and the players.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Of course the posters are wrong. Just look at the sales of high rated games .. and count how many of those are combat-centric. For every Portal, there are 20 Call of Duty.
The reason is simple, human has an fundamental attraction to violence. That is why 99% of the MMOs are combat centric. It is precisely because developers understand what entertain the masses. Ditto for movies.
I agree with you, but I also think combat should be intuitive, fresh, and creative. At this point I would rather have no combat than derivative or bad combat.
I dont think its the genre.
Witcher 2 is a fine example of a game that has flaws, but is still the top of its genre.
I myself am tired of the LONG production times, and the excuses we get for lack of ingenuity and innovation.
I mean with all the clones, this process should of been streamlined by now.
I despise the fact that I can watch a 60 minute video of nothing but gameplay, but I left in utero waiting for release.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I think a part of it is Devs/publishers/investers/who knows trying to push a game out too quick without it being finished to make a quick buck. That and nobody except the big guys know how to market a game
I would like to see a high budget action MMO, the whole GCD or animation length style of abilty based combat and the holy trinity is washed up and boring. Hellgate london and vindictus have pretty good combat, but the rest of the game and the repetivness of the dungeon grinding in the same looking dungeons is abit of a bore.
Oh yes...and atleast if somebody is going to make a PvP MMORPG...make it massive, or leave a M out when you market your game.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
We have no one to blame but ourselves. If other industries do this, they either adapt to the market or they fold. If I made a car or owned a restaruant and my customers expected x level of service/performance and then I stopped providing it....would people still buy my car? Would they continue to frequent my establishment?
Do you travel? Have you ever flown into a city or visited your family and always went to the same store or restaurant? One day you do this and it's under new management and now sucks? Would you go back? Or would you lament about how it used to be?
Stop buying trash. I refuse to purchase games, like Rift not b/c it's graphically displeasing(quite the opposite), nor because it's not a challenge. I don't buy it b/c it's is a retread of every other themepark nonsense on the market. If that type of game appeals to you, and it does apparently to many, then enjoy.
I support with my subscription. I pay for EvE, I don't purchase PLEX's for a reason. I have plenty of isk to do it...I CHOOSE not to. I buy 1 year at a time b/c I CHOOSE to support what CCP is doing. If they develop WoD and it's what I like, I will support that as well.
Trials are supplied to us as customers to determine if we like the product. If i do a trial, and have done many, and I like it...I will purchase and sub the game. If not, I move on. Crying about it doesn't do anything. I think due to the nature of "gaming" it draws a crowd of people that used to going to their parents, supervisors, etc and expecting help.
You don't see many forums to complain about how poor off shore boats perform. I haven't read to many forums about why "x" parachute has known problems. Why? People won't buy trash. Boating, Skydiving, Scuba diving, etc are all forms of entertainment. Yet many feel compelled to buy poop, chew on it a while and then complain about it.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
what other site is biggger than this that focuses on mmo's?
wouldnt you think that the developers would take sometime to bs on here as we all do, and interject their perspective and their succeses and failures.
not ever have I seen one comment on their story, be it the review or a production interview.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Developers do come here, quite often, sometimes posting with their real names. Many do not reveal themselves though I imagine as you know, some of us can be quite harsh. Usually when a big name developer posts something on a fan site as him/herself, it usually doesn't go well, at least from what I have seen.
SWG did it right when it first came out, everything was player generated, there were no quests. Maybe there were quests but I played it for 3 months without doing a single one. Someone should expand on that idea.
Different strokes for different folks. My brother played swg for years, I played it for less than a month and thought it was the most horrible boring peice of clap trap I've ever played.
And there were lots of missions in that game. I well remember going to those terminals every hour or so.
On the other hand I like Istaria (Hz) more than most of the other games, and most find that game horrible.
Venge
The OP makes little sense. If 'killing' things is what's making you stop playing this genre (an RPG no less) then pick up Free Realms or Need for Speed world. Last I checked, they don't have any killing stuff.
This genre is so expansive now that all sorts of playstyle can be accomodated.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I grew tired of the MMORPG genre until i started Rift, it ignited my passion for it again XD.
Its good to get some varity in your gaming, play the same genre over and over and u naturally get bored, which is why i mix it up alot.
I see mmo genres as solutions to my moods, usually when im happy and content i play MMORPG, or if im just in a bad mood ill play a MMOFPS or MOBA, theres nothing like killing other players to make you feel happy again XD
“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.
Of course it's crap now. When someone says SWG they typically say Pre-CU SWG or Pre-NGE SWG, meaning it was a worthwile game X time ago, not today; it's not a worthwhile game today. I said "When SWG first came out", same thing.
Not me. Quite excited about Arch Age, Defiance, The Secret World, GW2 and SWTOR.
Problem is there are milions of Getalifes.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Why is that a problem? At least those people are enjoying the gaming genre that they're following, instead of being unhappy and moan about the past and have to resort to nothing but powerless reading the news of a genre that provides them no enjoyment anymore since there's hardly an MMO that gets them that MMO high anymore.
Seems to me that the first group is having way more fun with the gaming genre they're following and interested in
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am looking forward to at least one game that is on the horizon. Meanwhile I satisfy myself knowing I am helping to contribute in my own way to those hundreds of thousands of players who feel they have nothing else to play.
Most of the time I find out they have only played the 'top' tier MMO's, and haven;t even tried to look at some of the smaller titles out there.
How can you really comment on the genre being tired unless you have tried at least a few games from all tiers of the genre?
Go on, give it a try. Pick a random game from the MMORPG.com list and play it for a few days. If for nothing else, it will broaden your worldview of what is actually out there.
DarkSpace Developer - Play DarkSpace - Play For Free!
Medusa Engine SDK - Free MMO Game Engine
Hampton Roads/East Coast Video Gamers Association
Answering the thread...me
I rarely play mmo's anymore
GW2 , if I dislike it I will just wait until something new picks my eye, but the last time I played mmo's for real was 2 years ago
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
Definitely not tired of the whole genre. Waiting for something better and I have been doing so for quite some time.
Im tired of the whole "we need to please everyone" way of thinking. Make MMO's for casuals and make MMO's for people who have played for years and enjoy thinking a bit. Can't stand companies like Blizzard that produce something decent then make it into a kids game years later. I do blame the community as there is a lot players now that just should stick to their 360's and PS3's. If I want to play a quick fun game I go play my PS3 cause thats what its there for. If I want to spend 12 hours in a day questing, PvP'ing and raiding i'll play a MMO.
I have to admit that there are many things in the genre that tires me.
The limited endgame, how 95% of the content gets easier and easier, how the world sizes of new games shrink and the fact that most quests still are rat catching quests and how they use the same boring mechanics without even trying something new.
But there are good things in the games as well, the real problem here is that MMOs either are themeparks that changed very little since Meridian 59 or badly coded indie games that might have fine ideas but so buggy thta they are painful to play.
Just a few games with competent coding and different mechanics would strenghten up the genre a lot.