It's not really "filling in the blank" until they add in either the "multiplayer" or the "gameplay" part. Pending that, it's just a fancier station background.
EVE has been going downhill since Apocrypha. most of the veterans have left, some have accepted CCP's new path, and others are raging. i was raging for a while, and then i just left. in any case, oldschoolers have been replaced by a new generation of players looking for an immersive space experience, and they are happy because they are unfamiliar with the game's issues that are only seen a year or two down the road.
There's nothing new about EVE's path, it's just that CCP has finally dedicated the resources to fill in a massive blank missing from the game. There's just no pleasing bittervets who are wearing their rose coloured glasses from the so-called "BetterDays"
I've been around just as long as they have and I can tell you they were nothing of the sort.
This. CCP said the past few years there filling in the spots that were in the game all along, only adding more to them (Planetary Interaction, Walking in Stations, etc). The subs have been steadily rising, and I see many players with years worth of SP in game.
Think what you want OP. I doubt CCP would add in gamebreaking items to the shop, and just keep it for avatar items/ship paintjobs/furniture. They won't screw up there game in that way, but if you believe otherwise you can.
I have to say I didn't read your post fully, but only skimmed over it. From what I read though, sounded too much like those doomsayers that shout on the side of streets. Guess that's what turned me off.
I guess you're forgetting that 'neural remapping' was supposed to be one of the items to be sold in the item shop?
Yeah, CCP would never do something like that with their game!
Think what you want OP. I doubt CCP would add in gamebreaking items to the shop, and just keep it for avatar items/ship paintjobs/furniture. They won't screw up there game in that way, but if you believe otherwise you can.
I have to say I didn't read your post fully, but only skimmed over it. From what I read though, sounded too much like those doomsayers that shout on the side of streets. Guess that's what turned me off.
I guess you're forgetting that 'neural remapping' was supposed to be one of the items to be sold in the item shop?
Yeah, CCP would never do something like that with their game!
Neural Remapping was taken off the table quickly after the backlash.
Think what you want OP. I doubt CCP would add in gamebreaking items to the shop, and just keep it for avatar items/ship paintjobs/furniture. They won't screw up there game in that way, but if you believe otherwise you can.
I have to say I didn't read your post fully, but only skimmed over it. From what I read though, sounded too much like those doomsayers that shout on the side of streets. Guess that's what turned me off.
I guess you're forgetting that 'neural remapping' was supposed to be one of the items to be sold in the item shop?
Yeah, CCP would never do something like that with their game!
Neural remapping is gamebreaking? I've been playing for over 3.5 years and never remapped any of my characters. Sure, its a convenience, but does it help anyone play to crush?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So it began, the downward spiral and there was but the tiniest of whimpers, for the masses were content.
I previously started a thread on mmorpg.com (http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/273536/page/1) condemning CCPs choice to attempt and dodge the bot/RMT isk market problems that plague EVE, while all the time in the back of my mind I knew that it reallly didn't make a blind bit of difference.
Those ignorant virtual economists who bark on about RMT ruining the economy and the inbalance created by bot resources flowing into the market really are a laugh a minute.
The market in EVE is completely, utterly, 100% broken. Just as an example of the total market manipulation at a grand scale, there are players mostly of whom aren't botters or hackers but normally they do boil down to one of two things; either exploiters or people who have been in the right place at the right time and had a little foresight, I would mention the T2 lottery or Alliance leadership members but that would just spark off rants and ramblings.
Suffice to say, i'm a nobody in the terms of the grand scheme of things (watch people quote that bit..) and yet I know people in game with trillions of ISK and I stopped 'seriously' playing in 2005. So I dread to think the numbers that some people have now clogging up their wallets.
The problem CCP had and still has, is the bad press associated with RMT, botters and farmers, they wanted to save a little face as they are simply unable to shut the 'illegal' RMT system down, so, they attempted to instead gain from the ISK purchasing masses.
This is where those retarded virtual wannabe economists step in and point out that you aren't strictly buying ISK and somehow not damaging the economy or creating goods from nothing etc... /yawn
You can argue all you like, the point is, I pay some $$ and then I click some buttons and I have hundreds of millions (BILLIONS) of ISK in my ingame wallet. Fact.
The system is wholly a legal ISK purchasing item shop.
An item shop, for ISK.
As he viewed his kingdom, the vision of the subjugated masses invigorated him and he yearned for more.
Fast forward along the RMT (item shop) transaction for CCP and we come to stage 2.
The economy is faultering, EU countries are withering into nothing, many are in the process of taking Iceland and its banks to the cleaners to recover lost monies.
Sure you could argue "hey, CCP are doing great! Look at those subscriber numbers, better than ever!"
To that i would simply say, "hey, my second swimming pool isn't going to pay for itself!"
CCP has $$$ in its eyes, it sees a player base of mindless sheep, largely accepting of its ISK item shop and is now following in the footsteps of other larger MMORPG publishers and opening up the next step in the $$$ printing machine.
Blizzard followed the same process and at each and every step, the masses cried out;
"It's ONLY VANITY ITEMS"
Remember this, deny this ever happened, be a fanboi, be a hater, be a sheep, but remember this.
"It's ONLY VANITY ITEMS"
When game breaking, combat altering, playstyle changing services or items come onto the CCP RMT item shop market, remember those words.
For the haters, here, jump on me! For I shall mention Blizzard!
Started with vanity.
Moved onto 'premium services'
Now to play with your friends on battle.net you have to pay $$$
The slippery slope...
And the game altering part of that is? I don't get the point of this. You go on about RMT, telling us you do use RMT but then call others that do sheep... Then you use Blizzard as an example but I have yet to see what is game changing about paying to play with real life friends, something I wouldn't do as all my real life friends rarely ever play any games unless it is on Xbox. Please show me this slippery slope, because from this post I am not seeing it.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Think what you want OP. I doubt CCP would add in gamebreaking items to the shop, and just keep it for avatar items/ship paintjobs/furniture. They won't screw up there game in that way, but if you believe otherwise you can.
I have to say I didn't read your post fully, but only skimmed over it. From what I read though, sounded too much like those doomsayers that shout on the side of streets. Guess that's what turned me off.
I guess you're forgetting that 'neural remapping' was supposed to be one of the items to be sold in the item shop?
Yeah, CCP would never do something like that with their game!
Neural Remapping was taken off the table quickly after the backlash.
My source. Back yours up or be considered a troll.
Past tense is too hard...
CCP didn't have a problem with it, it was only after doomsayers complianed that CCP reversed it's course. CCP can't be trusted to sort out on it's own what should go in their own item shop and if you think you've seen the last of things like that in the item shop think again.
Think what you want OP. I doubt CCP would add in gamebreaking items to the shop, and just keep it for avatar items/ship paintjobs/furniture. They won't screw up there game in that way, but if you believe otherwise you can.
I have to say I didn't read your post fully, but only skimmed over it. From what I read though, sounded too much like those doomsayers that shout on the side of streets. Guess that's what turned me off.
I guess you're forgetting that 'neural remapping' was supposed to be one of the items to be sold in the item shop?
Yeah, CCP would never do something like that with their game!
Neural Remapping was taken off the table quickly after the backlash.
My source. Back yours up or be considered a troll.
Past tense is too hard...
CCP didn't have a problem with it, it was only after doomsayers complianed that CCP reversed it's course. CCP can't be trusted to sort out on it's own what should go in their own item shop and if you think you've seen the last of things like that in the item shop think again.
Grasping at straws now. Your talking as a doomsayer, saying such will happen. If they stopped before because of the backlash, what gives you any reason to think they will go through with it a second time? Nothing.
That's the nice thing about EVE IMO. The CSM was one of the big reasons why the Neural Remap was taken off the table. Any other dev would have gone through with it. Save such worries for devs like Sony, which are adding arrows and such to there cash shop.
This is a non-subject to most of the current player base. To be honest, you've not played the game in five years and you need to do some research. CCP have/are implemented a lot of things to deal with these issues and it's no longer half of the problem it was. Unlike other MMORPG's out there that completely ignore the problem totally.
As for the item shop, it's also a non-subject. Because it's an extension of the current system. I also know one thing, if I do decided to buy anything from it. I won't need to spend any real life money, all I need to do is to earn the ISK to buy the plex. In my opinion, CCP have put a lot of thought into the new item shop. So if it brings in a little extra money to improve EVE, then good on them. I also can't see CCP adding things to the item shop that will unbalance the universe, because if they did the player base would vote with their wallets.
Argh, seriously, it is definatly not just an extension of the current system, it introduces microtransactions.
Where in the current system you can only trade isk for plex with players, in the new system you will be able to buy a plex, convert to Aurum and buy from CCP directly.
Just like plex for remaps would have, thank god it was not released.
Now if you are ok with microtransactions for vanity items, then fine, but don't say it is just an extension of the current system, because it most definatly is not.
I hate to tell you this, but the plex system is a micro transaction and this is just a natural evolution of that system. Of course the system also serves as a lot more than just a transaction. Because it also gives players a legitimate way of getting ISK for real money, that's the end truth of the matter. To be honest, it's the best transaction system in any MMORPG I've seen to date. I think that if more MMORPG's had a system similar to CCP's, the RM's of this world would have a very hard life indeed.
er no, there is nothing micro about a PLEX transaction. 1 PLEX has a fixed cost of about $15US. Once redeemed in game it has an average value of about 370m isk. When you buy it you get PLEX in it's entirety. For it to be a microtransaction it would need to be able to be split up and sold in smaller parts, hence microtransaction.
No matter what you buy, it's still counted as a transaction. It makes no difference if the the price is $0.99c or $15.99c in the end, you're still paying for it.
Geez, you seriously have no clue ...
If you pay 15€ a month for the full package, then you are playing on a level playing field, competing with the rest.
If you hack up the game in microtransactions, not much game is left, you just buy everything and "win", players who buy more, "win" more.
Of course you have gradations and nuances.
Plex is a nuance, it is not microtransactions, but it is RMT, still it is a compromise, it competes with the botters and hackers, and give the legit players an option to buy ISK legally withouth undermining the game. It does not however hack up the game in parts ( like expansions and microtransactions do ).
Vanity item only microtransactions are also a nuance, not as bad as other microtransactions, however they do affect gameplay, they replace the gameplay we otherwise might have gotten ( owning shops, crafting clothes, etc ).
In essence microtransactions are a crapload of mini expansions. Alot worse than regular expansions imho, I would rather have paid an expansion fee for Incarna than the microtransactions we are getting now.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
In essence microtransactions are a crapload of mini expansions. Alot worse than regular expansions imho, I would rather have paid an expansion fee for Incarna than the microtransactions we are getting now.
This statement can't be the be all end all statement. Some people, who have no interest in clothing for Incarna, would rather have saved there money than those who wanted such things. And those who wanted such things, can pay for only what they want. Now, I know everyone won't have the same viewpoint on this, but to say it's better to make others pay for Incarna over having the microtransactions isn't the right way to go.
The reason why they are charging directly for the clothing items is already explained from a quote I posted earlier, from a dev blog.
We want to balance the creation and production of such variations and customizability against the actual demand for it. The best way to do that is by having a direct connection between income of these items bought and how many we produce.
And before anyone chimes in saying we should be getting it for free, ask yourself this. Would you want them to put resources that have nothing to do with what you want (if your not interested in clothing) to go towards it, or rather have the resources used for the clothing and such fueled by microtransactions and not slow the rest of the content?
The one thing the OP got right was CCP has done nothing to stop botters. Botters are worse than ever. Especially the ones that mine.
Teala botting is a problem in virtually every mmo in existance and it will never go away. CCP does put quite a bit of effort into combating them and have been making strides but it is unlikely to ever go away completely in ANY MMO, not just EVE.
Really, its one of those things that if straight up buying money didn't fuck with the economy of EvE to the point of buying power (which it really didn't because even with ISK its fairly tough to buy a significant amount of power to do anything and it can all be destroyed in moments) then even a cash shop isn't going to be buy to win.
Until they announce that Tech 6 gear/ships will be available via cash shop only, there's literally no way that a cash shop will buy power.
As for botters, the only real reason that they are such a problem in Eve is because Eve makes it easy to literally afk and make money with very little risk and very little input (notes the raven runners with passive tanks and FoFs for one). And they have done things about some botters and I applaud them for it, but even if they make the same progress as other games, there will always be more of them in Eve.
In essence microtransactions are a crapload of mini expansions. Alot worse than regular expansions imho, I would rather have paid an expansion fee for Incarna than the microtransactions we are getting now.
This statement can't be the be all end all statement. Some people, who have no interest in clothing for Incarna, would rather have saved there money than those who wanted such things. And those who wanted such things, can pay for only what they want. Now, I know everyone won't have the same viewpoint on this, but to say it's better to make others pay for Incarna over having the microtransactions isn't the right way to go.
The reason why they are charging directly for the clothing items is already explained from a quote I posted earlier, from a dev blog.
We want to balance the creation and production of such variations and customizability against the actual demand for it. The best way to do that is by having a direct connection between income of these items bought and how many we produce.
And before anyone chimes in saying we should be getting it for free, ask yourself this. Would you want them to put resources that have nothing to do with what you want (if your not interested in clothing) to go towards it, or rather have the resources used for the clothing and such fueled by microtransactions and not slow the rest of the content?
Meh, I wouldnt want a regular paid expansion in EVE either, it is the lesser of 2 evils. It is definatly not the be all end all statement, I agree with you there.
The be all end all statement is this : Once microtransactions enter EVE, it will be the departure of the subcsription model, and EVE enters the hybrid model. EVE used to be about 1 big world, you pay 1 sub for the full package, no seperate expansions, no seperate microtransactions, all in 1 package. This change, changes the core and soul of EVE.
Incarna had enourmous amounts of potential, and the first real content is pay to get, not play to get.
I want to play my games, not pay to have or pay to win ...
And about the resources, that has nothing to do with it, every part of the game has people liking it and people not touching it, so we should divide everything in microtransactions and people only buy what they like? A bit like LOTRO works now? That is not what EVE is about.
I guess many people do not see the missed opportunity here, to make a real sci-fi simulator, not a space simulator + cash shop in stations.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Really, its one of those things that if straight up buying money didn't fuck with the economy of EvE to the point of buying power (which it really didn't because even with ISK its fairly tough to buy a significant amount of power to do anything and it can all be destroyed in moments) then even a cash shop isn't going to be buy to win.
Until they announce that Tech 6 gear/ships will be available via cash shop only, there's literally no way that a cash shop will buy power.
As for botters, the only real reason that they are such a problem in Eve is because Eve makes it easy to literally afk and make money with very little risk and very little input (notes the raven runners with passive tanks and FoFs for one). And they have done things about some botters and I applaud them for it, but even if they make the same progress as other games, there will always be more of them in Eve.
To me it is not just about power. I can enjoy a game without having power ...
Socializing, like in SWG-pre-CU-NGE, now that is what Incarna should have been about, not a cash shop added on the side of the space game.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Meh, I wouldnt want a regular paid expansion in EVE either, it is the lesser of 2 evils. It is definatly not the be all end all statement, I agree with you there.
The be all end all statement is this : Once microtransactions enter EVE, it will be the departure of the subcsription model, and EVE enters the hybrid model. EVE used to be about 1 big world, you pay 1 sub for the full package, no seperate expansions, no seperate microtransactions, all in 1 package. This change, changes the core and soul of EVE.
Incarna had enourmous amounts of potential, and the first real content is pay to get, not play to get.
I want to play my games, not pay to have or pay to win ...
And about the resources, that has nothing to do with it, every part of the game has people liking it and people not touching it, so we should divide everything in microtransactions and people only buy what they like? A bit like LOTRO works now? That is not what EVE is about.
I guess many people do not see the missed opportunity here, to make a real sci-fi simulator, not a space simulator + cash shop in stations.
Like I said before, the way CCP is doing this is the best way possible. Pay for what you want, and if there's enough demand for it, they will make more.
If it was put in the game as part of the sub fee, the devs wouldn't have the extra $$$ to make the project seperate, slowing down the gameplay related updates. No gameplay content is going for actual money, just cosmetic items. You won't be losing anything gameplay wise.
You get everything Incarna is putting in the game still with the actual subscription, sans clothing and furniture. Incarna has all the potential it had before. It's potential was to add the ability to walk in stations, to have a way to trade contraband "off the radar", etc. Nothing gameplay wise is going to cost you.
Incarna was never about pretty clothing, but fleshing out EVE, like they did with Planetary Interaction. The stations, like planets, were always there, but now they have an added feature.
It's not like the price of the items are out of reach for casual players either. I know buying an ISK is steep for some, but sererate clothing pieces go up on the market as well. There's no need to pay irl cash, ISK is fine enough.
Think what you want OP. I doubt CCP would add in gamebreaking items to the shop, and just keep it for avatar items/ship paintjobs/furniture. They won't screw up there game in that way, but if you believe otherwise you can.
I have to say I didn't read your post fully, but only skimmed over it. From what I read though, sounded too much like those doomsayers that shout on the side of streets. Guess that's what turned me off.
I guess you're forgetting that 'neural remapping' was supposed to be one of the items to be sold in the item shop?
Yeah, CCP would never do something like that with their game!
Neural Remapping was taken off the table quickly after the backlash.
My source. Back yours up or be considered a troll.
Past tense is too hard...
CCP didn't have a problem with it, it was only after doomsayers complianed that CCP reversed it's course. CCP can't be trusted to sort out on it's own what should go in their own item shop and if you think you've seen the last of things like that in the item shop think again.
Grasping at straws now. Your talking as a doomsayer, saying such will happen. If they stopped before because of the backlash, what gives you any reason to think they will go through with it a second time? Nothing.
That's the nice thing about EVE IMO. The CSM was one of the big reasons why the Neural Remap was taken off the table. Any other dev would have gone through with it. Save such worries for devs like Sony, which are adding arrows and such to there cash shop.
Are you really this naive?
How about "it will earn them lots of money" as the reason that they'll push out things that aren't just vanity.
If the estimated value of the sale of the items in the shop is higher than the estimated loss from cancelled subs - do you really expect CCP to not sell bitter vets down the river?
If the estimated value of the sale of the items in the shop is higher than the estimated loss from cancelled subs - do you really expect CCP to not sell bitter vets down the river?
I think you make a fair point. The problem is without the politics, scandal, and intrigue of Null Sec politics this game wouldn't have the “almost” impressive sub numbers it has. T20, BOB, the Alliance tournament and an endless parade of Null events is what drives the mystic of the game.
Nobody ever joined this game to be a PVE Power player, and WOW in space wouldn’t have a shelf life any longer than LOTR or WAR.
So no I don’t think CCP will sell its high skill point players down the river, but they will use them for all they are worth. Just as they are doing with vanity items.
They are just trying to be competitive with the big dogs of MMO’s. Aion, Lineage, WOW. Compared to the Companies behind these game, they need every edge they can get.
How about "it will earn them lots of money" as the reason that they'll push out things that aren't just vanity.
If the estimated value of the sale of the items in the shop is higher than the estimated loss from cancelled subs - do you really expect CCP to not sell bitter vets down the river?
Too many doomsayers on this forum. CCP learned from there mistake. If they were going to put out pay to win, they would have with Neural Remapping. Everyone that's saying otherwise has no credit, and is talking out of there rear.
IF it happens, you can spam all the warning shouts as much as you want, and I'll join you. But until then, don't spew random things when CCP already proved you wrong before.
If the estimated value of the sale of the items in the shop is higher than the estimated loss from cancelled subs - do you really expect CCP to not sell bitter vets down the river?
I think you make a fair point. The problem is without the politics, scandal, and intrigue of Null Sec politics this game wouldn't have the “almost” impressive sub numbers it has. T20, BOB, the Alliance tournament and an endless parade of Null events is what drives the mystic of the game.
Nobody ever joined this game to be a PVE Power player, and WOW in space wouldn’t have a shelf life any longer than LOTR or WAR.
So no I don’t think CCP will sell its high skill point players down the river, but they will use them for all they are worth. Just as they are doing with vanity items.
They are just trying to be competitive with the big dogs of MMO’s. Aion, Lineage, WOW. Compared to the Companies behind these game, they need every edge they can get.
I sure hope what you say is true.
Look the vanity items being introduced are not so bad that I would quit over it. I would quit over more impacting microtransactions tho.
Thing is, so far all the great mmo's that I have played, have been destroyed by the devs/publishers :
Star Wars Galaxies, Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima Online, ...
And not all of them on purpose either, Dark Age of Camelot for example was destroyed by accident, if Mythic had been more carefull with their expansions, it would still be the awesome RvR game it once was.
SWG, okay, that was just ugly.
Anyway, I just hope CCP does not accidentaly EVE and adding microtransactions to a sandbox that does not even have paid expansions will not increase my confidence.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Last thing I want to say about this, these microtransactions where never needed, they did not introduce microtransactions with Planetary Interaction, or Factional Warfare ...
They shouldn't do it with Incarna either, a good Incarna expansion would bring in a lot more subs and all the profit they need.
The real problem is that CCP invested alot of cash in Dust, WoD and all these new studios around the world, they are looking for a quick buck, and this is how they are making it. It is a lack of vision from CCP management pure and simple.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
The real problem is that CCP invested alot of cash in Dust, WoD and all these new studios around the world, they are looking for a quick buck, and this is how they are making it. It is a lack of vision from CCP management pure and simple.
Or maybe they don't want to slow down non clothing content at the fear of the vets?
to be fair its a slippery slope which the entire MMO community embarked on years and years ago.
CCP are just one of the last to fall in line. But since I never really pay for a subscription I wont have a problem with buying a few shineys... after all ... SHINEYS!!
Every mmo player loves shineys, especially pirates
Comments
It's not really "filling in the blank" until they add in either the "multiplayer" or the "gameplay" part. Pending that, it's just a fancier station background.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
This. CCP said the past few years there filling in the spots that were in the game all along, only adding more to them (Planetary Interaction, Walking in Stations, etc). The subs have been steadily rising, and I see many players with years worth of SP in game.
The one thing the OP got right was CCP has done nothing to stop botters. Botters are worse than ever. Especially the ones that mine.
I guess you're forgetting that 'neural remapping' was supposed to be one of the items to be sold in the item shop?
Yeah, CCP would never do something like that with their game!
Neural Remapping was taken off the table quickly after the backlash.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815
My source. Back yours up or be considered a troll.
Neural remapping is gamebreaking? I've been playing for over 3.5 years and never remapped any of my characters. Sure, its a convenience, but does it help anyone play to crush?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And the game altering part of that is? I don't get the point of this. You go on about RMT, telling us you do use RMT but then call others that do sheep... Then you use Blizzard as an example but I have yet to see what is game changing about paying to play with real life friends, something I wouldn't do as all my real life friends rarely ever play any games unless it is on Xbox. Please show me this slippery slope, because from this post I am not seeing it.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Past tense is too hard...
CCP didn't have a problem with it, it was only after doomsayers complianed that CCP reversed it's course. CCP can't be trusted to sort out on it's own what should go in their own item shop and if you think you've seen the last of things like that in the item shop think again.
Grasping at straws now. Your talking as a doomsayer, saying such will happen. If they stopped before because of the backlash, what gives you any reason to think they will go through with it a second time? Nothing.
That's the nice thing about EVE IMO. The CSM was one of the big reasons why the Neural Remap was taken off the table. Any other dev would have gone through with it. Save such worries for devs like Sony, which are adding arrows and such to there cash shop.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 5/30/11
Posts: 3
"Quit playing in 2005" - Enough said.
Geez, you seriously have no clue ...
If you pay 15€ a month for the full package, then you are playing on a level playing field, competing with the rest.
If you hack up the game in microtransactions, not much game is left, you just buy everything and "win", players who buy more, "win" more.
Of course you have gradations and nuances.
Plex is a nuance, it is not microtransactions, but it is RMT, still it is a compromise, it competes with the botters and hackers, and give the legit players an option to buy ISK legally withouth undermining the game. It does not however hack up the game in parts ( like expansions and microtransactions do ).
Vanity item only microtransactions are also a nuance, not as bad as other microtransactions, however they do affect gameplay, they replace the gameplay we otherwise might have gotten ( owning shops, crafting clothes, etc ).
In essence microtransactions are a crapload of mini expansions. Alot worse than regular expansions imho, I would rather have paid an expansion fee for Incarna than the microtransactions we are getting now.
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Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
This statement can't be the be all end all statement. Some people, who have no interest in clothing for Incarna, would rather have saved there money than those who wanted such things. And those who wanted such things, can pay for only what they want. Now, I know everyone won't have the same viewpoint on this, but to say it's better to make others pay for Incarna over having the microtransactions isn't the right way to go.
The reason why they are charging directly for the clothing items is already explained from a quote I posted earlier, from a dev blog.
We want to balance the creation and production of such variations and customizability against the actual demand for it. The best way to do that is by having a direct connection between income of these items bought and how many we produce.
And before anyone chimes in saying we should be getting it for free, ask yourself this. Would you want them to put resources that have nothing to do with what you want (if your not interested in clothing) to go towards it, or rather have the resources used for the clothing and such fueled by microtransactions and not slow the rest of the content?
Teala botting is a problem in virtually every mmo in existance and it will never go away. CCP does put quite a bit of effort into combating them and have been making strides but it is unlikely to ever go away completely in ANY MMO, not just EVE.
Really, its one of those things that if straight up buying money didn't fuck with the economy of EvE to the point of buying power (which it really didn't because even with ISK its fairly tough to buy a significant amount of power to do anything and it can all be destroyed in moments) then even a cash shop isn't going to be buy to win.
Until they announce that Tech 6 gear/ships will be available via cash shop only, there's literally no way that a cash shop will buy power.
As for botters, the only real reason that they are such a problem in Eve is because Eve makes it easy to literally afk and make money with very little risk and very little input (notes the raven runners with passive tanks and FoFs for one). And they have done things about some botters and I applaud them for it, but even if they make the same progress as other games, there will always be more of them in Eve.
Meh, I wouldnt want a regular paid expansion in EVE either, it is the lesser of 2 evils. It is definatly not the be all end all statement, I agree with you there.
The be all end all statement is this : Once microtransactions enter EVE, it will be the departure of the subcsription model, and EVE enters the hybrid model. EVE used to be about 1 big world, you pay 1 sub for the full package, no seperate expansions, no seperate microtransactions, all in 1 package. This change, changes the core and soul of EVE.
Incarna had enourmous amounts of potential, and the first real content is pay to get, not play to get.
I want to play my games, not pay to have or pay to win ...
And about the resources, that has nothing to do with it, every part of the game has people liking it and people not touching it, so we should divide everything in microtransactions and people only buy what they like? A bit like LOTRO works now? That is not what EVE is about.
I guess many people do not see the missed opportunity here, to make a real sci-fi simulator, not a space simulator + cash shop in stations.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
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Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
To me it is not just about power. I can enjoy a game without having power ...
Socializing, like in SWG-pre-CU-NGE, now that is what Incarna should have been about, not a cash shop added on the side of the space game.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Like I said before, the way CCP is doing this is the best way possible. Pay for what you want, and if there's enough demand for it, they will make more.
If it was put in the game as part of the sub fee, the devs wouldn't have the extra $$$ to make the project seperate, slowing down the gameplay related updates. No gameplay content is going for actual money, just cosmetic items. You won't be losing anything gameplay wise.
You get everything Incarna is putting in the game still with the actual subscription, sans clothing and furniture. Incarna has all the potential it had before. It's potential was to add the ability to walk in stations, to have a way to trade contraband "off the radar", etc. Nothing gameplay wise is going to cost you.
Incarna was never about pretty clothing, but fleshing out EVE, like they did with Planetary Interaction. The stations, like planets, were always there, but now they have an added feature.
It's not like the price of the items are out of reach for casual players either. I know buying an ISK is steep for some, but sererate clothing pieces go up on the market as well. There's no need to pay irl cash, ISK is fine enough.
I honestly fail to see how a cash shop for incarna removes the socializing aspect of it...
Are you really this naive?
How about "it will earn them lots of money" as the reason that they'll push out things that aren't just vanity.
If the estimated value of the sale of the items in the shop is higher than the estimated loss from cancelled subs - do you really expect CCP to not sell bitter vets down the river?
I think you make a fair point. The problem is without the politics, scandal, and intrigue of Null Sec politics this game wouldn't have the “almost” impressive sub numbers it has. T20, BOB, the Alliance tournament and an endless parade of Null events is what drives the mystic of the game.
Nobody ever joined this game to be a PVE Power player, and WOW in space wouldn’t have a shelf life any longer than LOTR or WAR.
So no I don’t think CCP will sell its high skill point players down the river, but they will use them for all they are worth. Just as they are doing with vanity items.
They are just trying to be competitive with the big dogs of MMO’s. Aion, Lineage, WOW. Compared to the Companies behind these game, they need every edge they can get.
Too many doomsayers on this forum. CCP learned from there mistake. If they were going to put out pay to win, they would have with Neural Remapping. Everyone that's saying otherwise has no credit, and is talking out of there rear.
IF it happens, you can spam all the warning shouts as much as you want, and I'll join you. But until then, don't spew random things when CCP already proved you wrong before.
I sure hope what you say is true.
Look the vanity items being introduced are not so bad that I would quit over it. I would quit over more impacting microtransactions tho.
Thing is, so far all the great mmo's that I have played, have been destroyed by the devs/publishers :
Star Wars Galaxies, Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima Online, ...
And not all of them on purpose either, Dark Age of Camelot for example was destroyed by accident, if Mythic had been more carefull with their expansions, it would still be the awesome RvR game it once was.
SWG, okay, that was just ugly.
Anyway, I just hope CCP does not accidentaly EVE and adding microtransactions to a sandbox that does not even have paid expansions will not increase my confidence.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Last thing I want to say about this, these microtransactions where never needed, they did not introduce microtransactions with Planetary Interaction, or Factional Warfare ...
They shouldn't do it with Incarna either, a good Incarna expansion would bring in a lot more subs and all the profit they need.
The real problem is that CCP invested alot of cash in Dust, WoD and all these new studios around the world, they are looking for a quick buck, and this is how they are making it. It is a lack of vision from CCP management pure and simple.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Or maybe they don't want to slow down non clothing content at the fear of the vets?
to be fair its a slippery slope which the entire MMO community embarked on years and years ago.
CCP are just one of the last to fall in line. But since I never really pay for a subscription I wont have a problem with buying a few shineys... after all ... SHINEYS!!
Every mmo player loves shineys, especially pirates