Soloing or grouping, there are still multiple players online. It is 2 very different playstyles, nothing more. The problem is that games encompassing solo play do not affect group play. Games that force grouping DO affect solo play. Does my solo play make your group play any less enjoyable, or are you just looking over at my machine saying, "That's NOT the way you're supposed to play this game!"
My point is this: I don't care if you like to group, or think that MMO means "grouping". Why do you care that I think MMO means massively multi-player online? My way does not exclude you, yet your way DOES exclude me.
And yes, I enjoy grouping. I also enjoy reading through quests, stopping near someone fighting and healing if needed, giving directions to newbies, drive-by buffing, working on crafting, or talking gameplay points with more than just 5-10 people at a time. Or is this your complaint? Do you think there are too many "non-grouping" activities?
Even with grouping you can still read quests, heal a nearby player, give directions, buff people, craft and so on. Nobody is talking about removing those activities. Take a look at EverQuest, a primarily group focused game - at least when in its first few years - and you had all of that and groups everywhere.
The argument I don't understand is that grouping excludes solo players. No, it doesn't, buying a multiplayer game and expecting it to be played single player is what excludes you. If you don't want to team up with other players then don't buy a multiplayer game, to me it's common sense. I didn't buy Rage because it's a multiplayer FPS, its single player section is weak at best, but I don't go jumping onto their forums whining because it doesn't support my style of play. It's a multiplayer game, it says it clearly on the box, if you're upset because you can't solo your way through it well.. that's your own dumb fault.
This is the problem with modern MMO's, they've catered so strongly to solo players that now every MMO should be that way, grouping has taken a back seat, we're playing nothing more than what I originally said, a single player game with a chat room. MMO's are multiplayer games, it's there in the title, not only that but MASSIVELY multiplayer, hence like in original EverQuest you'd have upwards of 70+ people coming together in a multiplayer experience.
Now, massively seems to mean a 5 person instance and 100 people per zone.
Even with grouping you can still read quests, heal a nearby player, give directions, buff people, craft and so on. Nobody is talking about removing those activities. Take a look at EverQuest, a primarily group focused game - at least when in its first few years - and you had all of that and groups everywhere.
The argument I don't understand is that grouping excludes solo players. No, it doesn't, buying a multiplayer game and expecting it to be played single player is what excludes you. If you don't want to team up with other players then don't buy a multiplayer game, to me it's common sense. I didn't buy Rage because it's a multiplayer FPS, its single player section is weak at best, but I don't go jumping onto their forums whining because it doesn't support my style of play. It's a multiplayer game, it says it clearly on the box, if you're upset because you can't solo your way through it well.. that's your own dumb fault.
This is the problem with modern MMO's, they've catered so strongly to solo players that now every MMO should be that way, grouping has taken a back seat, we're playing nothing more than what I originally said, a single player game with a chat room. MMO's are multiplayer games, it's there in the title, not only that but MASSIVELY multiplayer, hence like in original EverQuest you'd have upwards of 70+ people coming together in a multiplayer experience.
Now, massively seems to mean a 5 person instance and 100 people per zone.
There is a fundamental 'power' issue with forced grouping.
If your game forces grouping before the level-cap, you are effectively limiting the growth of your playerbase as eventually the existing playerbase levels beyond the grouping content. This leaves any new players at the mercy of existing player's 'goodwill'.
You can kinda of mitigate via mentoring/reward system but at the end of the day, the game developer has now lost control of the growth of the playerbase. This is probably not acceptable for a lot of companies (esp publicly listed ones).
If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
The solution I personally like the most is where grouping is encouraged and not forced. Whether it is some shiny stuff gold/items etc or bonus exp.
But at the end of the day, giving players the choice of solo or group is good, no?
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
There is a fundamental 'power' issue with forced grouping.
If your game forces grouping before the level-cap, you are effectively limiting the growth of your playerbase as eventually the existing playerbase levels beyond the grouping content. This leaves any new players at the mercy of existing player's 'goodwill'.
You can kinda of mitigate via mentoring/reward system but at the end of the day, the game developer has now lost control of the growth of the playerbase. This is probably not acceptable for a lot of companies (esp publicly listed ones).
If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
The solution I personally like the most is where grouping is encouraged and not forced. Whether it is some shiny stuff gold/items etc or bonus exp.
But at the end of the day, giving players the choice of solo or group is good, no?
If this was 1999 I'd agree with the "new player" scenario however there have been numerous MMOs out there that allow mentoring or sidekicking in order to allow players of different levels to group together in mutually productive ways- particularly if you're able to use a mechanic such as this to further reputation gains (personal preference being those that aren't solely for loot, but hey depth costs money).
I agree grouping should be encouraged and not forced, however the games that I've played most recently- especially for the leveling portion of the game make soloing the most efficient form of leveling setting it as the standard quo where grouping for quests or mob grinding tends not to happen unless absolutely necessary because the time getting a group together is time you could complete most anything solo.
Choice is undoubtedly good, but in MMOs where any endgame progression requires a group then grouping should be rewarded throughout the entire game.
Originally posted by jpnz If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
Doesn't this line say it all? The majority of the player base wishes to solo, not group.
To UsualSuspect: It must be me, then, about doing things that hold up the group action. I feel rushed to keep the group going. To stop while heading to the next dungeon/instance seems impolite to me, not far from going afk. As you stop to heal, chat, read quest lines, what have you, 4-9 or more other players are waiting for you to show up.
While in a group, I don't go afk for this very reason. To me, and the people I end up with in a group, speed is the norm.
I quit playing EQ when all my characters could not advance beyond 20th level without grouping. Who wants to group with someone solely to do this other persons quest? Certainly not I. I helped friends in EQ and it was not fun doing just their quests.
It seems our definition of "MMO" differs, so we won't see eye to eye.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
Doesn't this line say it all? The majority of the player base wishes to solo, not group.
To UsualSuspect:
It must be me, then, about doing things that hold up the group action. I feel rushed to keep the group going. To stop while heading to the next dungeon/instance seems impolite to me, not far from going afk. As you stop to heal, chat, read quest lines, what have you, 4-9 or more other players are waiting for you to show up.
While in a group, I don't go afk for this very reason. To me, and the people I end up with in a group, speed is the norm.
I quit playing EQ when all my characters could not advance beyond 20th level without grouping. Who wants to group with someone solely to do this other persons quest? Certainly not I. I helped friends in EQ and it was not fun doing just their quests.
It seems our definition of "MMO" differs, so we won't see eye to eye.
The majority of the player base wants to play the game as it's delivered, modern MMO's are all about soloing, beyond novelty value there is no reason to group until you hit max level. The whole game is a single player game with a chat room, so why would people feel like they should be grouping if everything they're being fed is telling them to go solo?
And that links on to your feeling impolite. Another thing wrong with modern MMO's, they're all so fast paced that even a few minutes out means a lot of missed activity. You barely have time to type 'Hello' anymore between actions and movement, it's no wonder community is falling apart.
With the mix of speed and solo based gameplay, is it any wonder MMO's are dying? At least their communities certainly are.
If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
Doesn't this line say it all? The majority of the player base wishes to solo, not group.
To UsualSuspect:
It must be me, then, about doing things that hold up the group action. I feel rushed to keep the group going. To stop while heading to the next dungeon/instance seems impolite to me, not far from going afk. As you stop to heal, chat, read quest lines, what have you, 4-9 or more other players are waiting for you to show up.
While in a group, I don't go afk for this very reason. To me, and the people I end up with in a group, speed is the norm.
I quit playing EQ when all my characters could not advance beyond 20th level without grouping. Who wants to group with someone solely to do this other persons quest? Certainly not I. I helped friends in EQ and it was not fun doing just their quests.
It seems our definition of "MMO" differs, so we won't see eye to eye.
The majority of the player base wants to play the game as it's delivered, modern MMO's are all about soloing, beyond novelty value there is no reason to group until you hit max level. The whole game is a single player game with a chat room, so why would people feel like they should be grouping if everything they're being fed is telling them to go solo?
And that links on to your feeling impolite. Another thing wrong with modern MMO's, they're all so fast paced that even a few minutes out means a lot of missed activity. You barely have time to type 'Hello' anymore between actions and movement, it's no wonder community is falling apart.
With the mix of speed and solo based gameplay, is it any wonder MMO's are dying? At least their communities certainly are.
Last I checked, modern MMO's are all about choices. You can group or you can solo. There are no restrictions on how the player wishes to play the game and most MMOs actually reward grouping via items/gold/reps etc. So not sure where this 'telling them to go solo' is coming from. If anything they are shown that grouping has immense benefits.
How the players play the game is left to their own devices and I can't say that's a bad thing. I'd rather choose how to play a game rather than be forced. Nothing wrong with having choices.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I'v played many mmo's and I can't really say I ever enjoyed ever having to solo. The most enjoyable and memorable experiences I'v had have been with friends. Either at their behest, Doing something for me, or doing something together.
Having some things to do in game by yourself is fine, but IMO all games should be designed around a social dynamic that rewards cooperation and a strong community.
And please, don't go saying some people just don't have the time luxury to find a group to go through the game.. Used to play CoH where I could get a group of 8 within 5 minutes after logging in.. Yes, there's folks that love MMOs and have little time to actually play them.. Sad for them, really.. But there's tons of games out there that made the mistake to listen to those people, and look where it got us.. Bring back the Massively Multiplayer into the RPG please...
If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
Doesn't this line say it all? The majority of the player base wishes to solo, not group.
To UsualSuspect:
It must be me, then, about doing things that hold up the group action. I feel rushed to keep the group going. To stop while heading to the next dungeon/instance seems impolite to me, not far from going afk. As you stop to heal, chat, read quest lines, what have you, 4-9 or more other players are waiting for you to show up.
While in a group, I don't go afk for this very reason. To me, and the people I end up with in a group, speed is the norm.
I quit playing EQ when all my characters could not advance beyond 20th level without grouping. Who wants to group with someone solely to do this other persons quest? Certainly not I. I helped friends in EQ and it was not fun doing just their quests.
It seems our definition of "MMO" differs, so we won't see eye to eye.
The majority of the player base wants to play the game as it's delivered, modern MMO's are all about soloing, beyond novelty value there is no reason to group until you hit max level. The whole game is a single player game with a chat room, so why would people feel like they should be grouping if everything they're being fed is telling them to go solo?
And that links on to your feeling impolite. Another thing wrong with modern MMO's, they're all so fast paced that even a few minutes out means a lot of missed activity. You barely have time to type 'Hello' anymore between actions and movement, it's no wonder community is falling apart.
With the mix of speed and solo based gameplay, is it any wonder MMO's are dying? At least their communities certainly are.
Last I checked, modern MMO's are all about choices. You can group or you can solo. There are no restrictions on how the player wishes to play the game and most MMOs actually reward grouping via items/gold/reps etc. So not sure where this 'telling them to go solo' is coming from. If anything they are shown that grouping has immense benefits.
How the players play the game is left to their own devices and I can't say that's a bad thing. I'd rather choose how to play a game rather than be forced. Nothing wrong with having choices.
You just think you have choices, fact is in most modern MMORPG's soloing is the most effcient way to advance your character, ergo most people solo. (even if grouping is an option).
Rewards for grouping almost never make it worth doing, and in fact recent entries like Rift make it so you can easily skip grouping and still reach level cap almost instantly.
You don't really have any choice at all in the end
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
Doesn't this line say it all? The majority of the player base wishes to solo, not group.
To UsualSuspect:
It must be me, then, about doing things that hold up the group action. I feel rushed to keep the group going. To stop while heading to the next dungeon/instance seems impolite to me, not far from going afk. As you stop to heal, chat, read quest lines, what have you, 4-9 or more other players are waiting for you to show up.
While in a group, I don't go afk for this very reason. To me, and the people I end up with in a group, speed is the norm.
I quit playing EQ when all my characters could not advance beyond 20th level without grouping. Who wants to group with someone solely to do this other persons quest? Certainly not I. I helped friends in EQ and it was not fun doing just their quests.
It seems our definition of "MMO" differs, so we won't see eye to eye.
The majority of the player base wants to play the game as it's delivered, modern MMO's are all about soloing, beyond novelty value there is no reason to group until you hit max level. The whole game is a single player game with a chat room, so why would people feel like they should be grouping if everything they're being fed is telling them to go solo?
And that links on to your feeling impolite. Another thing wrong with modern MMO's, they're all so fast paced that even a few minutes out means a lot of missed activity. You barely have time to type 'Hello' anymore between actions and movement, it's no wonder community is falling apart.
With the mix of speed and solo based gameplay, is it any wonder MMO's are dying? At least their communities certainly are.
Last I checked, modern MMO's are all about choices. You can group or you can solo. There are no restrictions on how the player wishes to play the game and most MMOs actually reward grouping via items/gold/reps etc. So not sure where this 'telling them to go solo' is coming from. If anything they are shown that grouping has immense benefits.
How the players play the game is left to their own devices and I can't say that's a bad thing. I'd rather choose how to play a game rather than be forced. Nothing wrong with having choices.
You just think you have choices, fact is in most modern MMORPG's soloing is the most effcient way to advance your character, ergo most people solo. (even if grouping is an option).
Rewards for grouping almost never make it worth doing, and in fact recent entries like Rift make it so you can easily skip grouping and still reach level cap almost instantly.
You don't really have any choice at all in the end
If grouping were actually FUN, you wouldn't have to bribe people to do it.
Last I checked, modern MMO's are all about choices. You can group or you can solo. There are no restrictions on how the player wishes to play the game and most MMOs actually reward grouping via items/gold/reps etc. So not sure where this 'telling them to go solo' is coming from. If anything they are shown that grouping has immense benefits.
How the players play the game is left to their own devices and I can't say that's a bad thing. I'd rather choose how to play a game rather than be forced. Nothing wrong with having choices.
You just think you have choices, fact is in most modern MMORPG's soloing is the most effcient way to advance your character, ergo most people solo. (even if grouping is an option).
Rewards for grouping almost never make it worth doing, and in fact recent entries like Rift make it so you can easily skip grouping and still reach level cap almost instantly.
You don't really have any choice at all in the end
Yes you do.
If one enjoys grouping/social aspect they can group and they always were given that option.
If one values the efficiency of advancing their char in a quantifiable way (not in an RP/background sense) then one has no problem soloing.
How much value one puts into which aspect of the game will differ the playstyles but one does not get forced into a certain playstyle.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If grouping were actually FUN, you wouldn't have to bribe people to do it.
It is fun, but modern MMO's don't make it fun. They make it a hindrance. Let's put a different twist on it:
You're in a field, you want to take a bucket of water from the bottom of the hill to the top. Do you a) Take the bucket of water to the top of the hill or b) Phone all your friends to come and help you take the bucket of water up to the top of the hill, having to wait for them to arrive and then work out some way of dividing the task between everyone..
Answer: A.
And that, in a nutshell, is a modern MMO. Yes, you can ask your friends to come and join you if you really want, but really it's easier and more time efficient to do it yourself.
Maybe it is just me, but it seems that the reward for grouping is accelerated experience gain. Even after waiting to get into a group, once you start, it seems the XP comes flying in. Well... in a GOOD group, that is I find that when I want to level fast, I look for a group.
I do have fun in groups. I can recall leveling and not even noticing it until the "GRATZ!" start coming through. It is just that solo play immerses me into the game more than grouping does.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
When did MMORPG ( Massive MULTIPLAYER ONLINE role playing game ) Becomes MSORPG ( Massive SOLO ONLINE role playing game )
I am posting because its becoming such a huge discussion that I don't even understand what happened.
I understand that people have limited amount of time to play, when family called you have to drop what you are doing and help them. Gamers are no longer young kids without responsibilities, the majority is now in their 20's to 40's.
But really, MMO are build for MULTIPLAYER , that means you play with other players, they are controlled by human on the other side of the computer. I personally an a Soloer , I play only a fewer hours a day, sometimes 1 hour, sometimes 4 max, but still i manage to group when i can, whenever i can. Raiding is tough, but still its what a MMORPG is build for, massive team work with other human players to achieve content.
If I want to Solo content I would play a Solo RPG, The Elder Scrolls : Skyrim , Massive Effect 1-3 are all Solo games, that I can pick up and play a few minutes, and when family calls, i can drop my controller, save and come back when i deem it able.
MMORPG are not a game that you can drop and do what you want without pissing another player off, if you want to play a MMO, and thats Massive MULTIPLAYER online, you can be a AHole and drop group and be Responsible for your family, but don't expect other players to like you afterwards.
Don't force the developers to blur the lines between MMO and MSO, and don't expect to get the same rewards as those that play it for what it is. You can use any real life analogy to describe how you should be rewarded the same gear. But its not gonna work, life in game is the same as life in Reality. Its not fair, those that play the number games will always be better than you when DPSing, those that can heal and dps at the same time will always out HPS (Heal Per Second ) and out DPS you any time, any day. Same as those that knows the number games in stocks and currency exchange rates, will always earn more than those who doesn't.
Developers doesn't force you to pay that $15 per month, you pay to play their game and if its not what you wanted, you stop paying, its that easy. You can't say that just because you pay $50 to buy a game that is made as a RPG to play like a RTS because you want to play a RTS or FPS. They are made as an RPG you play it as an RPG, you buy a FPS you play a FPS.
can anyone explain where the confusion between Multiplayer vs Solo is?
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
can anyone explain where the confusion between Multiplayer vs Solo is?
The solo junkies will tell you that it just means there are multiple players in the same game world. Somewhere along the way, the idea that an MMO was meant to be played as a team style game got lost in translation. What makes me sad is that these people are perfectly happy playing these games in a solo fashion, most of them have probably never even experienced a great team game with awesome team work, classes working in perfect harmony against dangerous creatures. Instead they say how bad most people they team with are, how they'd rather avoid them, and so on.
Well, is it any wonder that they're having that sort of experience when everything is solo based now? It's like expecting to have fun on a roller coaster that goes carefully in a straight flat line.
Originally posted by Lucioon When did MMORPG ( Massive MULTIPLAYER ONLINE role playing game ) Becomes MSORPG ( Massive SOLO ONLINE role playing game )
When did it become MMGRPG (Massively multi-grouping RPG)?
Originally posted by Lucioon I am posting because its becoming such a huge discussion that I don't even understand what happened.
What happened was that games grew and started to give players choices. I don't understand where people think MMO = Grouping only. Maybe I do. EQ qas my first game, never tried UO. In EQ, You HAD to group to get anywhere. That was the norm and is what was expected from an MMO. But MMO does not equal "group only". It means, literally (look it up): Massive = Lots, Numerous, humongous Multiple = More than one Player = One who plays the game I don't see the mention of grouping in there...
Originally posted by Lucioon I understand that people have limited amount of time to play, when family called you have to drop what you are doing and help them. Gamers are no longer young kids without responsibilities, the majority is now in their 20's to 40's.
I'm in that boat, but I was a late bloomer starting when in my 30's (back in 2001).
Originally posted by Lucioon But really, MMO are build for MULTIPLAYER , that means you play with other players, they are controlled by human on the other side of the computer. I personally an a Soloer , I play only a fewer hours a day, sometimes 1 hour, sometimes 4 max, but still i manage to group when i can, whenever i can. Raiding is tough, but still its what a MMORPG is build for, massive team work with other human players to achieve content.
If I read that right, You are basically a solo'er who groups whenever possible? There is nothing, I repeat nothing wrong with grouping. It is a different playstyle from soloing. The rewards for raiding is something soloers will never get (unless they join a raid group (good luck with that. lol).
Originally posted by Lucioon If I want to Solo content I would play a Solo RPG, The Elder Scrolls : Skyrim , Massive Effect 1-3 are all Solo games, that I can pick up and play a few minutes, and when family calls, i can drop my controller, save and come back when i deem it able.
This argument gets so old. Solo desktop games are the same, almost every time I play them. Once beaten (notice that word), there is nothing else to do. Maybe start over and go through the same dialogue with different characters. Having "massive" players in a game makes the game dynamic. I never know what to expect every time I log on. I do play solo games.
Originally posted by Lucioon MMORPG are not a game that you can drop and do what you want without pissing another player off, if you want to play a MMO, and thats Massive MULTIPLAYER online, you can be a AHole and drop group and be Responsible for your family, but don't expect other players to like you afterwards.
Multi is short for Multiple. Player does not equal group. Why do people get stuck on this definition. Nowhere is group mentioned pr even hinted at in MMO. Nowhere. I think EQ and what I've heard about UO is that grouping was the norm, or even the only way. I think people from those games/era equate MMO with grouping. Personally, I don't need to be in a group to interact with all the other players. It is true that when I do group, I also interact with other players, though the number of people is quite a bit less than not in a group.
Originally posted by Lucioon Don't force the developers to blur the lines between MMO and MSO, and don't expect to get the same rewards as those that play it for what it is. You can use any real life analogy to describe how you should be rewarded the same gear. But its not gonna work, life in game is the same as life in Reality. Its not fair, those that play the number games will always be better than you when DPSing, those that can heal and dps at the same time will always out HPS (Heal Per Second ) and out DPS you any time, any day. Same as those that knows the number games in stocks and currency exchange rates, will always earn more than those who doesn't.
The part I Bolded and Italicized makes me worry. You think online gaming is just like real life? I hope I misread that or did not get what you meant.
Originally posted by Lucioon Developers doesn't force you to pay that $15 per month, you pay to play their game and if its not what you wanted, you stop paying, its that easy. You can't say that just because you pay $50 to buy a game that is made as a RPG to play like a RTS because you want to play a RTS or FPS. They are made as an RPG you play it as an RPG, you buy a FPS you play a FPS.
And the same can be said back at you. No one is forcing you to pay to play a mainly soloing game. Play NWN or DA if you want to want to have others in your group. Sure, they are computer AI people, but at least you have a group.
Originally posted by Lucioon can anyone explain where the confusion between Multiplayer vs Solo is?
I hope I have tried to explain throughout this post. I reiterate: Multiplayer does NOT equal group. It is multiple players (check out the true term there) online in the same at the same time. It really isn't rocket science.
Once again, I wonder why people worry about how I play a game. Just because I prefer to solo doesn't mean you cannot group. Just because you want to group doesn't mean I cannot solo, UNLESS you make soloing NOT an option.
I still don't understand why the way I prefer to play a game matters to you. You are still able to solo if you wish. If you are finding grouping tougher, maybe it's because more players prefer soloing?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
All i was saying was that don't expect same rewards that those got through group content to be the same as those that does solo content.
When a game is build with Solo, group, raid, pvp, grind in one persistent world, dont' expect you can get all the items playing only one aspect. I am not a PVPer, I do not expect to survive against a High Level PVPer when he comes to kill me or when a dragon killer ( raider) attacks me, i don't expect to survive, but when I do, its just that much sweeter. Its like in your face Raiders and PVPers, you just got face rolled by a non raider or pvper. They probably pressed the wrong spell, waiting on CDs or got a phone call in RL. But still its still that much sweeter.
As a mainly Solo Player, I don't expect to get any Epic , or Legendary weapons or gear, but when i have time to raid and got the highest dkp to get that epic or legendary gear, thats is just that much sweeter.
Don' t think just becase you won't do raid or group content that you are missing out, you aren't, its content that you told yourself that you don't want to do. But its there when you do so its not locked from you.
I have been invited to raid with only rare gear on, where the other raiders get together and help everyone in guild get their epic gears to prepare for the next day in raid. it took a few days but through helping each other out, we become more of a tight family. Thats what guilds are for. Don't expect to be helped without helping others, i have hand outs, and I hand out some too. Its a take and give society. And with that in mind, everyone can get into raids.
Everyone starts at zero. there will always be players that is lower level than you, less geared than you. If you are trying to get into a full relic wearing raid, you are mistaken, you will not get in, like everyone else, you need to start at the beginning its called Raid group 2, 3, 4...etc. IF you try to get into a rank 6 pvp group without any experience in pvp, I am sorry, you will not be invited unless voulched by another player for your skill. You have to prove that you have been where they have been.
If you want more Solo content, then there will players that want more PVP content, then more Group content, then more Raid content. Its because its an MMO that they try to tailor it to multiple player styles. Not just one style.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I do have a idea for end game Solo Content. Not sure if anyone agrees with me but this would be my take on it.
Have solo Objectives, covert operations that requires solo players to go through raid dungeons via an alternate route, of course you won't kill any raid bosses but there is still a boss for you to kill. For example.... Raid groups go through the main hall killing everything in their way leading themselves to the main bosses for an epic fight with 20 vs 1.
Above the castle where the bosses are below, there is a small passage way, where this soloer goes through and kills mobs( less health , soloable ) , gathering data getting codecs, finding artifacts that would open up new raid contents after a certain numbers of soloers gets the contents or artifacts. or to get a sets of artifacts. To be used for new objectives for soloers.
This allows the solo players opportunity to visit those raid dungeons, as well as experience a different set of contents that involves them in the progression.
But there is a problem, What is raid if its not 20 solo players playing together, so that means those 20 solo players can go through the solo content as well. So its actually creating more content for the raid players.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Why create solo content at all? It's a multiplayer game. Why are you making content that can be done through a single player game, when we're playing a multiplayer game? Do I buy a chicken burger and expect a beef burger? No. So why buy a multiplayer game expecting solo? It actually makes me quite mad, that MMO's have become single player games with a bunch of people running around. The whole idea of an MMORPG was based on AD&D, with a group of players moving through dungeons together, fighting challenges that they could only face together, gaining treasure as they go.
What happened? I'll tell you what happened. Corporate greed. They came along and said, ooh, we can make a single player game, allow people to populate the same world, call it an MMO and have them pay us $20 a month for it, on top of the $60 box price. Woo! We're going to be /so/ freakin' rich!
Seriously, if you bought most MMO's as single player games, would you be impressed with the gameplay? It's only the presence of other players that make it all the more interesting. But what are you doing with those players? You're talking to them, watching them run past, allowing them to buy something you made. And that makes it a better game? And yet grouping with the same people doesn't? Why is this? Does seeing a bunch of players move around somehow make it a better experience, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with them in-game?
I mean, seriously, think about it. You are playing a single player game. There's just Bob from Arkansas walking past and giving you a wave, and maybe buying the rusty longsword you put in the auction house. I can program a bot to do the same thing. Would you still enjoy it, knowing it was just a bot? I mean, it's not like you're doing anything with Bob, he's just 'there' and he might have bought your item.
What is a multplayer game without players joining together to complete tasks? To fight overwhelming odds? Are you soloers really happy playing an inferior single player game with a chat box?
Originally posted by Lucioon All i was saying was that don't expect same rewards that those got through group content to be the same as those that does solo content. When a game is build with Solo, group, raid, pvp, grind in one persistent world, dont' expect you can get all the items playing only one aspect. I am not a PVPer, I do not expect to survive against a High Level PVPer when he comes to kill me or when a dragon killer ( raider) attacks me, i don't expect to survive, but when I do, its just that much sweeter. Its like in your face Raiders and PVPers, you just got face rolled by a non raider or pvper. They probably pressed the wrong spell, waiting on CDs or got a phone call in RL. But still its still that much sweeter. As a mainly Solo Player, I don't expect to get any Epic , or Legendary weapons or gear, but when i have time to raid and got the highest dkp to get that epic or legendary gear, thats is just that much sweeter.
Oh, I am with you here. I don't expect to get raid gear or PvP gear soloing. It's when the nice PvE gear drops in a raid that I get cranky
Originally posted by Lucioon Don' t think just becase you won't do raid or group content that you are missing out, you aren't, its content that you told yourself that you don't want to do. But its there when you do so its not locked from you.
Right. The option is always there.
Originally posted by Lucioon I have been invited to raid with only rare gear on, where the other raiders get together and help everyone in guild get their epic gears to prepare for the next day in raid. it took a few days but through helping each other out, we become more of a tight family. Thats what guilds are for. Don't expect to be helped without helping others, i have hand outs, and I hand out some too. Its a take and give society. And with that in mind, everyone can get into raids. Everyone starts at zero. there will always be players that is lower level than you, less geared than you. If you are trying to get into a full relic wearing raid, you are mistaken, you will not get in, like everyone else, you need to start at the beginning its called Raid group 2, 3, 4...etc. IF you try to get into a rank 6 pvp group without any experience in pvp, I am sorry, you will not be invited unless voulched by another player for your skill. You have to prove that you have been where they have been. If you want more Solo content, then there will players that want more PVP content, then more Group content, then more Raid content. Its because its an MMO that they try to tailor it to multiple player styles. Not just one style.
No disagreement here. I personally have no desire to raid or PvP. The amount of raid/PvP content doesn't matter to me as long as there is sufficient solo content. If there isn't enough for me, I quit playing. Raids are too "busy" (too much going on for me to keep track) and I suck at PvP. lol I have been in guilds and like the fellowship that develops. I have also reached the higher levels on my toons when in a guild. But I would still prefer to immerse myself in the game as a solo player. That way, I set the pace. (I set a really slow pace )
As far as ease of play between solo and group, let's look at grouping first. The hardest part of grouping is trying to get into a group to begin with (unless you're a healer or tank). The next hardest part is to keep the group together for at least one dungeon. The third hardest part is getting quality players in your group. The good things about grouping are the speed of XP gained, the melding of everyone into a cohesive unit as you work together, and sometimes, better loot drops and an XP bonus for being in a group (depending on the game).
In solo play, the hardest part is trying to figure out how to get past multiple mobs. The next hardest part is having to heal yourself between every (or every other) fight. The third hardest part is trying to get through the group of mobs before they respawn again. The good things about soloing is that you are not using the same 3 or 4 attack powers. You use more of the ones you have, since you have to cover everyone's role who is not there. You get to read the quests, go off on a tangent somewhere else, and not be the blame for a group wipe. lol
I fully support the best raid gear from raiding and the best PvP gear from PvPing. It is when uber PvE gear needs to be raided for.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by UsualSuspect Seriously, if you bought most MMO's as single player games, would you be impressed with the gameplay? It's only the presence of other players that make it all the more interesting. But what are you doing with those players? You're talking to them, watching them run past, allowing them to buy something you made. And that makes it a better game? And yet grouping with the same people doesn't? Why is this? Does seeing a bunch of players move around somehow make it a better experience, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with them in-game?
The other players is why I play MMOs. Other people make the game dynamic. They make the world alive. I can take a walk outside of my house and feel alive with others around me, but I don't HAVE to group with them to interact. I cahn wave, yell "Heya! How ya doin'?" I may pick up a neighbor for a block or two, possibly another neighbor for five blocks. I have no qualms about that (unless I run into this neighbor I really don't like).
I just don't see why people HAVE to group to feel they are interacting with others. I guess that is what I am having trouble grasping. I guess I should ask if you group ALL the time? Do you log off if you can't find a group? If you do solo, does it feel like a desktop solo game? I'm just curious and am trying to see what I am missing.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
If grouping were actually FUN, you wouldn't have to bribe people to do it.
It is fun, but modern MMO's don't make it fun. They make it a hindrance. Let's put a different twist on it:
You're in a field, you want to take a bucket of water from the bottom of the hill to the top. Do you a) Take the bucket of water to the top of the hill or b) Phone all your friends to come and help you take the bucket of water up to the top of the hill, having to wait for them to arrive and then work out some way of dividing the task between everyone..
Answer: A.
And that, in a nutshell, is a modern MMO. Yes, you can ask your friends to come and join you if you really want, but really it's easier and more time efficient to do it yourself.
The problem is, most of the time, I don't find the grouping fun at all, regardless of the game, mostly because the kind of people you find who are into grouping tend to be... well, people I wouldn't want to hang out with in the first place. The game stops being fun when you have to hang out with a bunch of retards who can't type or spell and have the IQ of a kumquat. I'd much rather play solo and be able to pick and choose people I spend time with than be forced into groups because the game allows no other alternative.
All i was saying was that don't expect same rewards that those got through group content to be the same as those that does solo content.
When a game is build with Solo, group, raid, pvp, grind in one persistent world, dont' expect you can get all the items playing only one aspect. I am not a PVPer, I do not expect to survive against a High Level PVPer when he comes to kill me or when a dragon killer ( raider) attacks me, i don't expect to survive, but when I do, its just that much sweeter. Its like in your face Raiders and PVPers, you just got face rolled by a non raider or pvper. They probably pressed the wrong spell, waiting on CDs or got a phone call in RL. But still its still that much sweeter.
As a mainly Solo Player, I don't expect to get any Epic , or Legendary weapons or gear, but when i have time to raid and got the highest dkp to get that epic or legendary gear, thats is just that much sweeter.
Oh, I am with you here. I don't expect to get raid gear or PvP gear soloing. It's when the nice PvE gear drops in a raid that I get cranky
Atleast you understand that not all gear should be equal in all situations. But thats where most of the problems comes from. I went through SWTOR's forums and found almost 20% of the posts were arguments between SOLO players wanted all gears to be available to them without them doing any PVPing, Raiding, or Grinding. And that was mainly from SOLO players. They feel that because they don't PVP or Raid they are secondary citizens and also because they don' t want to play with other players , or because they feel other players are stupid, idiotic or moving too fast, have too much time that therefore they should be gifted with the opportunity to reach elitism by themselves, Arguments like I can say hi to anyone i want, but i just like to solo and get Relics and I want all bosses scale down to my levels so i can kill him solo without help. If I need help in a MMO to kill a boss then its a bad Design. But really, how can that even be an Argument, Its an MMO , If you need help, ask for it, send a server wide call for other players to help. Whats so hard about that..
This is what scared me whenever an argument between grouping and soloing comes up, not that I am against solo, just the thought of those that Wants SOLO to be the main focus in an MMO.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
This is what scared me whenever an argument between grouping and soloing comes up, not that I am against solo, just the thought of those that Wants SOLO to be the main focus in an MMO.
A game focus doesn't usually change and if there is rapid departure there normally is a good reasons why.
I don't have a problem with 'soloers' getting equivalent loot as long as the relative time/effort required are the same.
If it takes me and 9 other people 4 hours to get 10 pieces of 'epix' that's one piece of gear per player. If a soloer want to sit there and grind 40 (10 x 4) hours for 1 piece of gear knock yourself out.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
Even with grouping you can still read quests, heal a nearby player, give directions, buff people, craft and so on. Nobody is talking about removing those activities. Take a look at EverQuest, a primarily group focused game - at least when in its first few years - and you had all of that and groups everywhere.
The argument I don't understand is that grouping excludes solo players. No, it doesn't, buying a multiplayer game and expecting it to be played single player is what excludes you. If you don't want to team up with other players then don't buy a multiplayer game, to me it's common sense. I didn't buy Rage because it's a multiplayer FPS, its single player section is weak at best, but I don't go jumping onto their forums whining because it doesn't support my style of play. It's a multiplayer game, it says it clearly on the box, if you're upset because you can't solo your way through it well.. that's your own dumb fault.
This is the problem with modern MMO's, they've catered so strongly to solo players that now every MMO should be that way, grouping has taken a back seat, we're playing nothing more than what I originally said, a single player game with a chat room. MMO's are multiplayer games, it's there in the title, not only that but MASSIVELY multiplayer, hence like in original EverQuest you'd have upwards of 70+ people coming together in a multiplayer experience.
Now, massively seems to mean a 5 person instance and 100 people per zone.
There is a fundamental 'power' issue with forced grouping.
If your game forces grouping before the level-cap, you are effectively limiting the growth of your playerbase as eventually the existing playerbase levels beyond the grouping content. This leaves any new players at the mercy of existing player's 'goodwill'.
You can kinda of mitigate via mentoring/reward system but at the end of the day, the game developer has now lost control of the growth of the playerbase. This is probably not acceptable for a lot of companies (esp publicly listed ones).
If your game has grouping as optional than the vast majority of the playerbase will not group and solo it through.
The solution I personally like the most is where grouping is encouraged and not forced. Whether it is some shiny stuff gold/items etc or bonus exp.
But at the end of the day, giving players the choice of solo or group is good, no?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If this was 1999 I'd agree with the "new player" scenario however there have been numerous MMOs out there that allow mentoring or sidekicking in order to allow players of different levels to group together in mutually productive ways- particularly if you're able to use a mechanic such as this to further reputation gains (personal preference being those that aren't solely for loot, but hey depth costs money).
I agree grouping should be encouraged and not forced, however the games that I've played most recently- especially for the leveling portion of the game make soloing the most efficient form of leveling setting it as the standard quo where grouping for quests or mob grinding tends not to happen unless absolutely necessary because the time getting a group together is time you could complete most anything solo.
Choice is undoubtedly good, but in MMOs where any endgame progression requires a group then grouping should be rewarded throughout the entire game.
To UsualSuspect:
It must be me, then, about doing things that hold up the group action. I feel rushed to keep the group going. To stop while heading to the next dungeon/instance seems impolite to me, not far from going afk. As you stop to heal, chat, read quest lines, what have you, 4-9 or more other players are waiting for you to show up.
While in a group, I don't go afk for this very reason. To me, and the people I end up with in a group, speed is the norm.
I quit playing EQ when all my characters could not advance beyond 20th level without grouping. Who wants to group with someone solely to do this other persons quest? Certainly not I. I helped friends in EQ and it was not fun doing just their quests.
It seems our definition of "MMO" differs, so we won't see eye to eye.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The majority of the player base wants to play the game as it's delivered, modern MMO's are all about soloing, beyond novelty value there is no reason to group until you hit max level. The whole game is a single player game with a chat room, so why would people feel like they should be grouping if everything they're being fed is telling them to go solo?
And that links on to your feeling impolite. Another thing wrong with modern MMO's, they're all so fast paced that even a few minutes out means a lot of missed activity. You barely have time to type 'Hello' anymore between actions and movement, it's no wonder community is falling apart.
With the mix of speed and solo based gameplay, is it any wonder MMO's are dying? At least their communities certainly are.
Last I checked, modern MMO's are all about choices. You can group or you can solo. There are no restrictions on how the player wishes to play the game and most MMOs actually reward grouping via items/gold/reps etc. So not sure where this 'telling them to go solo' is coming from. If anything they are shown that grouping has immense benefits.
How the players play the game is left to their own devices and I can't say that's a bad thing. I'd rather choose how to play a game rather than be forced. Nothing wrong with having choices.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I'v played many mmo's and I can't really say I ever enjoyed ever having to solo. The most enjoyable and memorable experiences I'v had have been with friends. Either at their behest, Doing something for me, or doing something together.
Having some things to do in game by yourself is fine, but IMO all games should be designed around a social dynamic that rewards cooperation and a strong community.
nice!
No more solo friendly game....
And please, don't go saying some people just don't have the time luxury to find a group to go through the game.. Used to play CoH where I could get a group of 8 within 5 minutes after logging in.. Yes, there's folks that love MMOs and have little time to actually play them.. Sad for them, really.. But there's tons of games out there that made the mistake to listen to those people, and look where it got us.. Bring back the Massively Multiplayer into the RPG please...
"Build it and they will come"
You just think you have choices, fact is in most modern MMORPG's soloing is the most effcient way to advance your character, ergo most people solo. (even if grouping is an option).
Rewards for grouping almost never make it worth doing, and in fact recent entries like Rift make it so you can easily skip grouping and still reach level cap almost instantly.
You don't really have any choice at all in the end
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If grouping were actually FUN, you wouldn't have to bribe people to do it.
Yes you do.
If one enjoys grouping/social aspect they can group and they always were given that option.
If one values the efficiency of advancing their char in a quantifiable way (not in an RP/background sense) then one has no problem soloing.
How much value one puts into which aspect of the game will differ the playstyles but one does not get forced into a certain playstyle.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It is fun, but modern MMO's don't make it fun. They make it a hindrance. Let's put a different twist on it:
You're in a field, you want to take a bucket of water from the bottom of the hill to the top. Do you a) Take the bucket of water to the top of the hill or b) Phone all your friends to come and help you take the bucket of water up to the top of the hill, having to wait for them to arrive and then work out some way of dividing the task between everyone..
Answer: A.
And that, in a nutshell, is a modern MMO. Yes, you can ask your friends to come and join you if you really want, but really it's easier and more time efficient to do it yourself.
Maybe it is just me, but it seems that the reward for grouping is accelerated experience gain. Even after waiting to get into a group, once you start, it seems the XP comes flying in. Well... in a GOOD group, that is
I find that when I want to level fast, I look for a group.
I do have fun in groups. I can recall leveling and not even noticing it until the "GRATZ!" start coming through. It is just that solo play immerses me into the game more than grouping does.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
When did MMORPG ( Massive MULTIPLAYER ONLINE role playing game ) Becomes MSORPG ( Massive SOLO ONLINE role playing game )
I am posting because its becoming such a huge discussion that I don't even understand what happened.
I understand that people have limited amount of time to play, when family called you have to drop what you are doing and help them. Gamers are no longer young kids without responsibilities, the majority is now in their 20's to 40's.
But really, MMO are build for MULTIPLAYER , that means you play with other players, they are controlled by human on the other side of the computer. I personally an a Soloer , I play only a fewer hours a day, sometimes 1 hour, sometimes 4 max, but still i manage to group when i can, whenever i can. Raiding is tough, but still its what a MMORPG is build for, massive team work with other human players to achieve content.
If I want to Solo content I would play a Solo RPG, The Elder Scrolls : Skyrim , Massive Effect 1-3 are all Solo games, that I can pick up and play a few minutes, and when family calls, i can drop my controller, save and come back when i deem it able.
MMORPG are not a game that you can drop and do what you want without pissing another player off, if you want to play a MMO, and thats Massive MULTIPLAYER online, you can be a AHole and drop group and be Responsible for your family, but don't expect other players to like you afterwards.
Don't force the developers to blur the lines between MMO and MSO, and don't expect to get the same rewards as those that play it for what it is. You can use any real life analogy to describe how you should be rewarded the same gear. But its not gonna work, life in game is the same as life in Reality. Its not fair, those that play the number games will always be better than you when DPSing, those that can heal and dps at the same time will always out HPS (Heal Per Second ) and out DPS you any time, any day. Same as those that knows the number games in stocks and currency exchange rates, will always earn more than those who doesn't.
Developers doesn't force you to pay that $15 per month, you pay to play their game and if its not what you wanted, you stop paying, its that easy. You can't say that just because you pay $50 to buy a game that is made as a RPG to play like a RTS because you want to play a RTS or FPS. They are made as an RPG you play it as an RPG, you buy a FPS you play a FPS.
can anyone explain where the confusion between Multiplayer vs Solo is?
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
The solo junkies will tell you that it just means there are multiple players in the same game world. Somewhere along the way, the idea that an MMO was meant to be played as a team style game got lost in translation. What makes me sad is that these people are perfectly happy playing these games in a solo fashion, most of them have probably never even experienced a great team game with awesome team work, classes working in perfect harmony against dangerous creatures. Instead they say how bad most people they team with are, how they'd rather avoid them, and so on.
Well, is it any wonder that they're having that sort of experience when everything is solo based now? It's like expecting to have fun on a roller coaster that goes carefully in a straight flat line.
Massive = Lots, Numerous, humongous
Multiple = More than one
Player = One who plays the game
I don't see the mention of grouping in there... I'm in that boat, but I was a late bloomer starting when in my 30's (back in 2001). If I read that right, You are basically a solo'er who groups whenever possible? There is nothing, I repeat nothing wrong with grouping. It is a different playstyle from soloing. The rewards for raiding is something soloers will never get (unless they join a raid group (good luck with that. lol). This argument gets so old. Solo desktop games are the same, almost every time I play them. Once beaten (notice that word), there is nothing else to do. Maybe start over and go through the same dialogue with different characters. Having "massive" players in a game makes the game dynamic. I never know what to expect every time I log on. I do play solo games. Multi is short for Multiple. Player does not equal group. Why do people get stuck on this definition. Nowhere is group mentioned pr even hinted at in MMO. Nowhere. I think EQ and what I've heard about UO is that grouping was the norm, or even the only way. I think people from those games/era equate MMO with grouping. Personally, I don't need to be in a group to interact with all the other players. It is true that when I do group, I also interact with other players, though the number of people is quite a bit less than not in a group. The part I Bolded and Italicized makes me worry. You think online gaming is just like real life? I hope I misread that or did not get what you meant. And the same can be said back at you. No one is forcing you to pay to play a mainly soloing game. Play NWN or DA if you want to want to have others in your group. Sure, they are computer AI people, but at least you have a group. I hope I have tried to explain throughout this post. I reiterate: Multiplayer does NOT equal group. It is multiple players (check out the true term there) online in the same at the same time. It really isn't rocket science.
Once again, I wonder why people worry about how I play a game. Just because I prefer to solo doesn't mean you cannot group. Just because you want to group doesn't mean I cannot solo, UNLESS you make soloing NOT an option.
I still don't understand why the way I prefer to play a game matters to you. You are still able to solo if you wish. If you are finding grouping tougher, maybe it's because more players prefer soloing?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
All i was saying was that don't expect same rewards that those got through group content to be the same as those that does solo content.
When a game is build with Solo, group, raid, pvp, grind in one persistent world, dont' expect you can get all the items playing only one aspect. I am not a PVPer, I do not expect to survive against a High Level PVPer when he comes to kill me or when a dragon killer ( raider) attacks me, i don't expect to survive, but when I do, its just that much sweeter. Its like in your face Raiders and PVPers, you just got face rolled by a non raider or pvper. They probably pressed the wrong spell, waiting on CDs or got a phone call in RL. But still its still that much sweeter.
As a mainly Solo Player, I don't expect to get any Epic , or Legendary weapons or gear, but when i have time to raid and got the highest dkp to get that epic or legendary gear, thats is just that much sweeter.
Don' t think just becase you won't do raid or group content that you are missing out, you aren't, its content that you told yourself that you don't want to do. But its there when you do so its not locked from you.
I have been invited to raid with only rare gear on, where the other raiders get together and help everyone in guild get their epic gears to prepare for the next day in raid. it took a few days but through helping each other out, we become more of a tight family. Thats what guilds are for. Don't expect to be helped without helping others, i have hand outs, and I hand out some too. Its a take and give society. And with that in mind, everyone can get into raids.
Everyone starts at zero. there will always be players that is lower level than you, less geared than you. If you are trying to get into a full relic wearing raid, you are mistaken, you will not get in, like everyone else, you need to start at the beginning its called Raid group 2, 3, 4...etc. IF you try to get into a rank 6 pvp group without any experience in pvp, I am sorry, you will not be invited unless voulched by another player for your skill. You have to prove that you have been where they have been.
If you want more Solo content, then there will players that want more PVP content, then more Group content, then more Raid content. Its because its an MMO that they try to tailor it to multiple player styles. Not just one style.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I do have a idea for end game Solo Content. Not sure if anyone agrees with me but this would be my take on it.
Have solo Objectives, covert operations that requires solo players to go through raid dungeons via an alternate route, of course you won't kill any raid bosses but there is still a boss for you to kill. For example.... Raid groups go through the main hall killing everything in their way leading themselves to the main bosses for an epic fight with 20 vs 1.
Above the castle where the bosses are below, there is a small passage way, where this soloer goes through and kills mobs( less health , soloable ) , gathering data getting codecs, finding artifacts that would open up new raid contents after a certain numbers of soloers gets the contents or artifacts. or to get a sets of artifacts. To be used for new objectives for soloers.
This allows the solo players opportunity to visit those raid dungeons, as well as experience a different set of contents that involves them in the progression.
But there is a problem, What is raid if its not 20 solo players playing together, so that means those 20 solo players can go through the solo content as well. So its actually creating more content for the raid players.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Why create solo content at all? It's a multiplayer game. Why are you making content that can be done through a single player game, when we're playing a multiplayer game? Do I buy a chicken burger and expect a beef burger? No. So why buy a multiplayer game expecting solo? It actually makes me quite mad, that MMO's have become single player games with a bunch of people running around. The whole idea of an MMORPG was based on AD&D, with a group of players moving through dungeons together, fighting challenges that they could only face together, gaining treasure as they go.
What happened? I'll tell you what happened. Corporate greed. They came along and said, ooh, we can make a single player game, allow people to populate the same world, call it an MMO and have them pay us $20 a month for it, on top of the $60 box price. Woo! We're going to be /so/ freakin' rich!
Seriously, if you bought most MMO's as single player games, would you be impressed with the gameplay? It's only the presence of other players that make it all the more interesting. But what are you doing with those players? You're talking to them, watching them run past, allowing them to buy something you made. And that makes it a better game? And yet grouping with the same people doesn't? Why is this? Does seeing a bunch of players move around somehow make it a better experience, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with them in-game?
I mean, seriously, think about it. You are playing a single player game. There's just Bob from Arkansas walking past and giving you a wave, and maybe buying the rusty longsword you put in the auction house. I can program a bot to do the same thing. Would you still enjoy it, knowing it was just a bot? I mean, it's not like you're doing anything with Bob, he's just 'there' and he might have bought your item.
What is a multplayer game without players joining together to complete tasks? To fight overwhelming odds? Are you soloers really happy playing an inferior single player game with a chat box?
As far as ease of play between solo and group, let's look at grouping first. The hardest part of grouping is trying to get into a group to begin with (unless you're a healer or tank). The next hardest part is to keep the group together for at least one dungeon. The third hardest part is getting quality players in your group. The good things about grouping are the speed of XP gained, the melding of everyone into a cohesive unit as you work together, and sometimes, better loot drops and an XP bonus for being in a group (depending on the game).
In solo play, the hardest part is trying to figure out how to get past multiple mobs. The next hardest part is having to heal yourself between every (or every other) fight. The third hardest part is trying to get through the group of mobs before they respawn again. The good things about soloing is that you are not using the same 3 or 4 attack powers. You use more of the ones you have, since you have to cover everyone's role who is not there. You get to read the quests, go off on a tangent somewhere else, and not be the blame for a group wipe. lol
I fully support the best raid gear from raiding and the best PvP gear from PvPing. It is when uber PvE gear needs to be raided for.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I just don't see why people HAVE to group to feel they are interacting with others. I guess that is what I am having trouble grasping. I guess I should ask if you group ALL the time? Do you log off if you can't find a group? If you do solo, does it feel like a desktop solo game? I'm just curious and am trying to see what I am missing.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The problem is, most of the time, I don't find the grouping fun at all, regardless of the game, mostly because the kind of people you find who are into grouping tend to be... well, people I wouldn't want to hang out with in the first place. The game stops being fun when you have to hang out with a bunch of retards who can't type or spell and have the IQ of a kumquat. I'd much rather play solo and be able to pick and choose people I spend time with than be forced into groups because the game allows no other alternative.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
A game focus doesn't usually change and if there is rapid departure there normally is a good reasons why.
I don't have a problem with 'soloers' getting equivalent loot as long as the relative time/effort required are the same.
If it takes me and 9 other people 4 hours to get 10 pieces of 'epix' that's one piece of gear per player. If a soloer want to sit there and grind 40 (10 x 4) hours for 1 piece of gear knock yourself out.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.