A great game would makes you forget about the grind during the process of engaging gameplay.
Just something to think about.
I think a great game require great gamers to play.
Too many enter games with the mindset of them need to be max to start playing. They start afk-macroing or cheating to reach highest levels first and even without illegal activities they don't enjoy enything in their playtime if not some max numbers on their toon is reached. (and even start complaining in forums about how much they have to invest to become max)
Once there was one of the greatest game ever it was Star Wars Galaxies and even these great game couldn't stop people with the mentality "need to max out to start playing".
Fore great gamers there isn't much better games out better then Darkfall. IMO it is the best on the market atm.
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Making people pvp viable from their first day would alleviate one of the biggest problems with Darkfalls player retention rate.
It wouln`t ruin the game if AV redused the grind significantly. I know some might think DF would be like quake if they did, but with the constant need for gear and mats, I disagree. If it was true a faster grind would turn DF into Quake, then all we have now is Quake with a grind.
Darkfall isn`t about leveling up like most other mmos, Darkfall is all about end game. Unlike other mmos, Darkfall has a great endgame. It is the wars and politics that make DF shine. If you have taken part in a large sea battle or an epic siege, you will never be satisfied with an instanced battleground again.
We do alot of PVE to replace our lost gear. What makes DF pve fun is not the NPCs AI, it is the danger you have from getting jumped. If I have acquired a lot of valuables from pve, every strange sound makes it feel like I`m playing a horror game. I hate killing NPCs and the thought of losing my hard work makes me jumpy.
I do hope the armor specilization will remove the level grind. I have played for two years, but still I macro attended as we speak. I have only dexterity left to meditate, but the number of spells I still need to grind is huge.
The part in red pretty much sums up why many people, such as myself, will never give this game a try.
If a 2 year vet still has a " huge" number of spells to grind, and "still" needs to macro then what could possibly entice new people into this game?
I would not expect to jump into any game and be on par with vet players, but a reasonable amount of time to catch up is a must to draw new players into a game.
Being everyone's bitch for 6-12 months is not my idea of fun, nor many others I would imagine.
I quit DFO last ... decemeber because I got bored with the game, not because of macroing. I never had a maxed out toon and never felt I lost because of it. When people say "its been 2 years and I still have a long way" they are saying that because they are trying to max out everything. If you try to max out everything you will burn yourself out. For instance, maxed manna efficentcy = 1-2 more spells. Is that really going to determine the out come of a fight? 110 str vs 60str = ~2 damage per swing difference, is that going to determine the out come of a fight?
The devs thought that allowing people to max out everything, but making it nearly impossible to do without cheating, would have forced people into specialization, they were wrong peopel simply cheated.
The only reason they are added in these meditation systems is because people cheated which caused the new vs vet gap to be huge even if other changes were made (first 50 levels = 80% of out put). Now, the vet vs 6 month character gap is virtually no existent. You could easily be "competetive" i.e. having 1 2h weapon 50 mastery, 350+ hp, all the spells, spell schools, and decent intensifiers in ~3 months of normal play. If you are super casual (less than 10hrs/week) it'll take you 2x as long, but thats how it is with every game on the market. The difference is, you don't get pked. With the changes in the alignment system + being able to live in a fortress, that isn't much of a problem.
However, the game is not balanced, there isn't much for a solo player to do (its a sandbox), and there are other things that make the game stale quickly. Those are the reasons not to play DFO, grind is the furtherst from DFO's over all problem.
The devs thought that allowing people to max out everything, but making it nearly impossible to do without cheating, would have forced people into specialization, they were wrong peopel simply cheated.
I don't quite think that's how it went.
In my opinion, Aventurine was extremely naive thinking that players would simply play the game how AV played it when they tested it. They never quite had professional testers to figure out the exploits and such, so they've never had another opinion outside of theirs...until the game launched but at this point it was too late.
Making people pvp viable from their first day would alleviate one of the biggest problems with Darkfalls player retention rate.
It wouln`t ruin the game if AV redused the grind significantly. I know some might think DF would be like quake if they did, but with the constant need for gear and mats, I disagree. If it was true a faster grind would turn DF into Quake, then all we have now is Quake with a grind.
Darkfall isn`t about leveling up like most other mmos, Darkfall is all about end game. Unlike other mmos, Darkfall has a great endgame. It is the wars and politics that make DF shine. If you have taken part in a large sea battle or an epic siege, you will never be satisfied with an instanced battleground again.
We do alot of PVE to replace our lost gear. What makes DF pve fun is not the NPCs AI, it is the danger you have from getting jumped. If I have acquired a lot of valuables from pve, every strange sound makes it feel like I`m playing a horror game. I hate killing NPCs and the thought of losing my hard work makes me jumpy.
I do hope the armor specilization will remove the level grind. I have played for two years, but still I macro attended as we speak. I have only dexterity left to meditate, but the number of spells I still need to grind is huge.
The part in red pretty much sums up why many people, such as myself, will never give this game a try.
If a 2 year vet still has a " huge" number of spells to grind, and "still" needs to macro then what could possibly entice new people into this game?
I would not expect to jump into any game and be on par with vet players, but a reasonable amount of time to catch up is a must to draw new players into a game.
Being everyone's bitch for 6-12 months is not my idea of fun, nor many others I would imagine.
the part in red is the exact reason i quit DF. u also dont realize how many "PVP" spells u cant macro that u have to grind on mobs to be viable in combat. i finished all the BS easy macro grind spells, aka 7 months of grinding and hundreds of thousands of regs later before i realized i had a much harder and riskier grind left and i just didnt have the will left continue. also if u are in a massive war it can be extremely hard to keep that grind going unless u are an insomniac and can stay up until the wee hours. btw a massive war can go on for months and take up 95% of your gametime when your logged on.
grind time has been significantly reduced since alot of you guys have been playing i think. I made a new character a month ago to prove a point and he is already pvp viable with 370hp 100/100 archery almost 75 GS mastery and all the healing/utility spells i need. Granted i cant stand 1v1 vs a 2year player, i can still probably kill 75% of the players ingame.
People need to get out of the mentality that u need everything maxed in order to play. I mean while a vet has the advantage of mastering every spell school, a newer player can specialise in fire and use a firestaff and deal as much dmg as a vet. Skilling to 100 in a spell school is incredibly fast and if you pve/level at the same time, you will see how fast your skills go up.
please bear in mind not everyone is as good as each other in this game and you will not believe how many people flamed my 1 month char calling me a 2year vet/crutching on skills when i would be hitting them 2-3x as much as they were hitting me.
Making people pvp viable from their first day would alleviate one of the biggest problems with Darkfalls player retention rate.
It wouln`t ruin the game if AV redused the grind significantly. I know some might think DF would be like quake if they did, but with the constant need for gear and mats, I disagree. If it was true a faster grind would turn DF into Quake, then all we have now is Quake with a grind.
Darkfall isn`t about leveling up like most other mmos, Darkfall is all about end game. Unlike other mmos, Darkfall has a great endgame. It is the wars and politics that make DF shine. If you have taken part in a large sea battle or an epic siege, you will never be satisfied with an instanced battleground again.
We do alot of PVE to replace our lost gear. What makes DF pve fun is not the NPCs AI, it is the danger you have from getting jumped. If I have acquired a lot of valuables from pve, every strange sound makes it feel like I`m playing a horror game. I hate killing NPCs and the thought of losing my hard work makes me jumpy.
I do hope the armor specilization will remove the level grind. I have played for two years, but still I macro attended as we speak. I have only dexterity left to meditate, but the number of spells I still need to grind is huge.
The part in red pretty much sums up why many people, such as myself, will never give this game a try.
If a 2 year vet still has a " huge" number of spells to grind, and "still" needs to macro then what could possibly entice new people into this game?
I would not expect to jump into any game and be on par with vet players, but a reasonable amount of time to catch up is a must to draw new players into a game.
Being everyone's bitch for 6-12 months is not my idea of fun, nor many others I would imagine.
Havent checked this thread for a while. My thoughts are coming back to DFO from time to time. First I read when I check DFO forum out again, is this. Thanks but no thanks. Depressing reading. Great game though. I shrug when I think about all the grind I need.... Really sad, cause the game is great apart from that.
Originally posted by PyroKiddie
grind time has been significantly reduced since alot of you guys have been playing i think. I made a new character a month ago to prove a point and he is already pvp viable with 370hp 100/100 archery almost 75 GS mastery and all the healing/utility spells i need. Granted i cant stand 1v1 vs a 2year player, i can still probably kill 75% of the players ingame.
People need to get out of the mentality that u need everything maxed in order to play. I mean while a vet has the advantage of mastering every spell school, a newer player can specialise in fire and use a firestaff and deal as much dmg as a vet. Skilling to 100 in a spell school is incredibly fast and if you pve/level at the same time, you will see how fast your skills go up.
please bear in mind not everyone is as good as each other in this game and you will not believe how many people flamed my 1 month char calling me a 2year vet/crutching on skills when i would be hitting them 2-3x as much as they were hitting me.
Your post makes no sense. You ARE a veteran. You probably know "it all". At first you say you can't stand 1vs1 with anyone, then you say you can beat 75% of all players. If you, as a veteran, can't beat anyone, how do you expect newbs do in this game? They are slaughtered and ganked 24/7 for months & months. Until they quit.
Some can live with the gank, to more or lesser degree like I did, while some can not. Some can live with the grind, until a point, like I did, before I quit.
The massive 'grind' compared with the massive 'gank' is just too much for a game like this to be considered "successful". At some point 99% of all people will give up and resign. In the end majority of the community will be veterans, mostly consisting of those who have played the game from it's release.
On the Europe server there are people who's ONLY purpose is to gank newbs and rob them for all their belongings. They are using all tricks they can to turn them open for pvp, which can be very frustrating as well as not much fun. When this shit happens every day for like a week, you think anyone would stay? Nah, theres enough games that offeres more fun than be ganked & robbed when you play...
Is there a solution to all this? One might be to make all skills increased though meditation. That would also remove the lame afk grinding, which is a huge gamebreaking factor for me; I really fail to see the point of a game where you at first need to play it hardcore like insane to be competetive, and when you log off you need to afk grind too. It becomes an obsession in the end. Which is worse than feeling game is a "grind" or a "job"...
Guys & girls! Long time since I visited this thread. I still miss the thrill from what DFO gave me (which I never felt as much in any other game). I havent though, forgot why I left.
Are there any good news for me? Can anyone tell me if there's any light in the tunell as I would instantly return if there is, were or are some significant changes in the grind.
I would also like to know if there have been any updates to the UI. I bought several keyboards as well as the G13 just for DFO's sake. A shame it is just dusting down beside me on the floor...
Guys & girls! Long time since I visited this thread. I still miss the thrill from what DFO gave me (which I never felt as much in any other game). I havent though, forgot why I left.
Are there any good news for me? Can anyone tell me if there's any light in the tunell as I would instantly return if there is, were or are some significant changes in the grind.
I would also like to know if there have been any updates to the UI. I bought several keyboards as well as the G13 just for DFO's sake. A shame it is just dusting down beside me on the floor...
Give me some good news please
.
Cheers!
You stoped playing pre-meditation ? If yes, then you might find the meditation system as a very usefull tool to reduce the "grind" (afk skill progression).
The next patch scheduled this month will introduce a new siege system - it will be already the the what.. 3rd siege system now ? which allow multisieging and will hinder "selfsieging".
Mid-August the coding will be done on the "new Darkfall" which will also introduce a new UI. So far is the info we know.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I just came back few days ago, and even if meditation is a great improvement the answer is yes, it is still a uber grind. First meditation which is an offline skilling, is expensive, a medium leveled char will burn 1 to 2 hour of pve in it per day, which is a lot to me. Second it is still super slow, 1 to 2 month to max a single stat. And last you basically can't meditate any of your combat related skills and spells, neither your craft. So its basically your stat and the basic skills nobody care about like rigor and those useless skills nobody even know what use they have if they have any tbh. You need between 3 to 5k gold per day to get you an idea if you already played the game to put in meditation, since you buy your mediation with ingame gold. Honestly med is good only if you already have a medium leveled char or have a guild paying for you which is just super strange to me.
So ye the game is still a uber grind, definitly to me. I try to catch up my crafting now so to have some decent gear, since you also have a nice gear grind on top of the skill grind, and have to burn weeks and weeks worth of gathering mat to go up 2 or3 rank of gear, crafted like hundreds of swords and useless armor parts. I don't even understand how they can design such crap honestly, it is so stupid, useless and frustrating, half the gear of the game is totally useless. And this is just a stupid exemple, the whole game is build that way, i really don't know who designed the progression system of this game but he must be a strange guy to keep it polite.
They say they are cleaning that crap in their next version, but honestly that would mean they took 95% of the game out, i don't know what will be left, somehow i can't take those guys seriously anymore. We all have to see the new game and the reactions about it; and so nioce games like GW2 are going out. It was really bad luck i resubbed few days before the anouncement, so ill play this month without any hope tbh.
The immersive aspect of this game was the best i had in all my mmos though, such a waste.
So, would you recommend DF in its current state or playing UO to get that sandbox do anything you want feel
Honestly i'm not sure, neither i guess. Uo got stomped so much, its not even close to what it used to be, and have such an old graphism, even playing some emulated pre trammel server won't give you the feelling it had. DF, is an interesting game for sure, but i'm not sure its that good. Or maybe play both if you played neither of them, you will still learn a lot and have some good time in both, those game are still better than anything else put together tbh. If you look only for the sandbox, play Eve or some totally unknown mmo like Heaven & Hearth. Sandbox doesn't exist apart from those 2 to me.
So, would you recommend DF in its current state or playing UO to get that sandbox do anything you want feel
Honestly i'm not sure, neither i guess. Uo got stomped so much, its not even close to what it used to be, and have such an old graphism, even playing some emulated pre trammel server won't give you the feelling it had. DF, is an interesting game for sure, but i'm not sure its that good. Or maybe play both if you played neither of them, you will still learn a lot and have some good time in both, those game are still better than anything else put together tbh. If you look only for the sandbox, play Eve or some totally unknown mmo like Heaven & Hearth. Sandbox doesn't exist apart from those 2 to me.
Yah I've been playing EvE lately but sometimes it wears me out knowing I'll have to wait 2-3 months to get into a new fun ship etc. Also supers are completely broken and I'm nowhere near one so that kind of deflates interest as well. I plan to keep my account active, but I need something for a change of pace and more active combat.
I'm trying UO on a free shard and it seems great, but so much when I haven't really played the game (I played MUDs when this was big) seems like I'm too late.
Might go into Darkfall expecting no more than a month of gameplay. I don't mind grinding skills up by actively fighting stuff and farming and such, but needing to do it offline/afking as well seems more tedius than I care to bother with.
I don't understand how a game like UO and such grinding wasn't an issue, it was welcome, but here if you can't compete with vets 3 months in, then the game is pointless.
So, would you recommend DF in its current state or playing UO to get that sandbox do anything you want feel
Honestly i'm not sure, neither i guess. Uo got stomped so much, its not even close to what it used to be, and have such an old graphism, even playing some emulated pre trammel server won't give you the feelling it had. DF, is an interesting game for sure, but i'm not sure its that good. Or maybe play both if you played neither of them, you will still learn a lot and have some good time in both, those game are still better than anything else put together tbh. If you look only for the sandbox, play Eve or some totally unknown mmo like Heaven & Hearth. Sandbox doesn't exist apart from those 2 to me.
Yah I've been playing EvE lately but sometimes it wears me out knowing I'll have to wait 2-3 months to get into a new fun ship etc. Also supers are completely broken and I'm nowhere near one so that kind of deflates interest as well. I plan to keep my account active, but I need something for a change of pace and more active combat.
I'm trying UO on a free shard and it seems great, but so much when I haven't really played the game (I played MUDs when this was big) seems like I'm too late.
Might go into Darkfall expecting no more than a month of gameplay. I don't mind grinding skills up by actively fighting stuff and farming and such, but needing to do it offline/afking as well seems more tedius than I care to bother with.
I don't understand how a game like UO and such grinding wasn't an issue, it was welcome, but here if you can't compete with vets 3 months in, then the game is pointless.
Ye thats what everyone tell them since years, but i guess they want to appeal to those that look for an "old school" mmo where you needed to dedicate so much effort into them to go anywhere. If you have or can join a good clan, you might have it easy though, its not a bad game really, you will loose nothing playing few months.
I don't understand how a game like UO and such grinding wasn't an issue, it was welcome, but here if you can't compete with vets 3 months in, then the game is pointless.
Well there is a big difference between UO grind and Darkfall Grind you could max out a 7x gm in a week or two of good playing on UO. You could play Darkfall for over a year straight and never get max'd out on your stats. I do like Darkfall dont get me wrong just your comparing apples to oranges. But also Darkfall pvp is more player skill oriented and also it is pretty easy to escape from reds on Darkfall if they try to grief you. So in short no you dont have to afk grind to enjoy darkfall however if your the player who thinks he should be able to beat everyone on the server then find a different game because this one aint for you.
I don't understand how a game like UO and such grinding wasn't an issue, it was welcome, but here if you can't compete with vets 3 months in, then the game is pointless.
Well there is a big difference between UO grind and Darkfall Grind you could max out a 7x gm in a week or two of good playing on UO. You could play Darkfall for over a year straight and never get max'd out on your stats. I do like Darkfall dont get me wrong just your comparing apples to oranges. But also Darkfall pvp is more player skill oriented and also it is pretty easy to escape from reds on Darkfall if they try to grief you. So in short no you dont have to afk grind to enjoy darkfall however if your the player who thinks he should be able to beat everyone on the server then find a different game because this one aint for you.
Cool man I appreciate the seemingly unbiased input. I don't particularly care about being the baddest mofo with the best stuff.
Is escaping really that easy? I was thinking that would be the deciding factor for me. Not being able to beat the vets is fine, but being cannon fodder for them over and over doesn't sound like fun. In EvE you can't really 1v1 a long time vet, but there are plenty of ways to play safe and avoid confrontation.
My main thing is I hate playing solo. My idea of having fun in this game would be to be able to go out exploring/killing mobs and such with at least 1 other person almost all the time. Is this the kind of game where you are better off soloing and thus shunning random grouping?
Not being pvp viable from the get go is probably the biggest problem Darkfall has. Frankly I dont know many people who enjoy being everyone elses bitch for 1 to 2 months before they can finally start to defend themselves.
Its like some sort of sick high school hazing.
EVE Online has been successful with just that. There are bigger issues.
Cool man I appreciate the seemingly unbiased input. I don't particularly care about being the baddest mofo with the best stuff.
Is escaping really that easy? I was thinking that would be the deciding factor for me. Not being able to beat the vets is fine, but being cannon fodder for them over and over doesn't sound like fun. In EvE you can't really 1v1 a long time vet, but there are plenty of ways to play safe and avoid confrontation.
My main thing is I hate playing solo. My idea of having fun in this game would be to be able to go out exploring/killing mobs and such with at least 1 other person almost all the time. Is this the kind of game where you are better off soloing and thus shunning random grouping?
No. Escaping is not "that" easy. Veterans will be able to kill you in seconds for months. And trust me, that will happen. Theres no chance you can escape any veteran unless you are close to an NPC city. And still they would be able to kill you even with a few shots from the protecting towers.
The grind is massive, and it seems to me that the grind is only reduced by so little that it is barely noticeble. You can get your stats up to 100 through meditation, but it will take months. But then you have to grind up all your spells needed to be competetive. THAT will take years for anyone who's not willing to afk grind.
Yes; I did play a little while after meditation was released. It was not even close to whats needed to reduce the grind to be able for me to stay.
Cool man I appreciate the seemingly unbiased input. I don't particularly care about being the baddest mofo with the best stuff.
Is escaping really that easy? I was thinking that would be the deciding factor for me. Not being able to beat the vets is fine, but being cannon fodder for them over and over doesn't sound like fun. In EvE you can't really 1v1 a long time vet, but there are plenty of ways to play safe and avoid confrontation.
My main thing is I hate playing solo. My idea of having fun in this game would be to be able to go out exploring/killing mobs and such with at least 1 other person almost all the time. Is this the kind of game where you are better off soloing and thus shunning random grouping?
No. Escaping is not "that" easy. Veterans will be able to kill you in seconds for months. And trust me, that will happen. Theres no chance you can escape any veteran unless you are close to an NPC city. And still they would be able to kill you even with a few shots from the protecting towers.
The grind is massive, and it seems to me that the grind is only reduced by so little that it is barely noticeble. You can get your stats up to 100 through meditation, but it will take months. But then you have to grind up all your spells needed to be competetive. THAT will take years for anyone who's not willing to afk grind.
Yes; I did play a little while after meditation was released. It was not even close to whats needed to reduce the grind to be able for me to stay.
In the probably 6-7months of active game time in Darkfall I have played I have been killed by NPC monsters more than griefers while farming mid-high level NPC spawns. The only time it is hard to escape from a griefer would be if you are low on health and inside a dungeon when you encounter them. In the open world it is quite easy to escape griefers in my opinion. As long as you have a mount obviously. The person I am quoting above just seems like a pure hater to me honestly. If you were compare Darkfall to WOW it is harder to be epic at pvp in WOW than Darkfall because WOW you must farm the top tier dungeons repeatedly to get your epic gear and better gear vs worse gear in WOW is about 90% guarantee better gear wins. Darkfall I have killed fully geared vet players naked with a bow and arrows. Yes my archery is maxed but my player stats are not. Darkfall = twitch combat/skill/stats/armor all combined to determine pvp viability. If you liked Shadowbane/SWG/ or UO I would assume you would at least moderatly enjoy DF to me SWG was best the UO/DF tie then Shadowbane.
Well I sort of agree that escaping isn't that hard as long as you are careful AND have a mount .. if you're on foot, forget about it.
But what he said about spells is absolutely true. The spell grind is there and just as bad as at release, especially because you have to grind for reagents. If you don't afk macro your spells then you are going to be severely limited in pvp. Although I guess an alternative would be using a bow, but even then without spells .. yikes.
A game to keep an eye on is ArcheAge if you want ffa pvp in a sandbox. Also maybe Darkfall 2.0 will actually happen.
Hey some questions if ya all don't mind. I tried darkfall for about 20 minutes a long time ago just curious if character run animations are still the joke they were at or close to release? Honestly cant remember when I tried the game must of been a year ago.
Honestly the absolutily terrible run animation of my toon prob turned me off the most lol. That and well I started a toon...got my bonus trainer weapon or whatever, went out of town to some tower to kill some mobs and prompty got one shot by some dude camping.
Note that I love PVP. I played shadowbane for ages and have been playig eve for years (more before the nano nerf when I coudl actually solo). So nope dont mind losing stuff. its just that I want to be competetive. Even if I have to wait for a month to put up a fight wouldnt be bad as long as i dont get ganked 24/7 while actually trying to do so.
Hey some questions if ya all don't mind. I tried darkfall for about 20 minutes a long time ago just curious if character run animations are still the joke they were at or close to release? Honestly cant remember when I tried the game must of been a year ago.
Honestly the absolutily terrible run animation of my toon prob turned me off the most lol. That and well I started a toon...got my bonus trainer weapon or whatever, went out of town to some tower to kill some mobs and prompty got one shot by some dude camping.
Note that I love PVP. I played shadowbane for ages and have been playig eve for years (more before the nano nerf when I coudl actually solo). So nope dont mind losing stuff. its just that I want to be competetive. Even if I have to wait for a month to put up a fight wouldnt be bad as long as i dont get ganked 24/7 while actually trying to do so.
As of now you've gotta play hardcore (20+ hr/week) for 3 months to be able to put up a fight. And you'll get ganked constantly at all the spawns while trying to skill up.
I wish these things were not true about Darkfall, but they are. I enjoyed the game when I played it but like so many promising indie sandbox titles it just didn't come together as I would have liked.
Oy, the UI and control setup, why do developers try to reinvent the wheel? It was needlessly clunky to be charitable.
And yeah the grinding that you need to do in order to be competitive. I was with a decent sized guild and participated in several sieges as a relative newbie. I'm sorry but you just aren't going to accomplish anything. First of all during a siege is when the heavy hitters come out to play so you'll most likely die many times just trying to get near the objective because so many players will stumble across you along the way. Then once you get there you'll most likely contribute a few tens of damage via archery (because you haven't spent 2 months working up your magic yet) before needing to be rezzed (if you are lucky).
That wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that you can't actually work up your skills in any meaningful way via PvP. You have to use PvE and bloodwalling where groups of friendly characters bang on each other to raise offensive/defensive skills efficiently. If you don't do that for at least a few months while logging out swimming into a wall or with a coin wedged under your shift key to sprint into a wall then you just won't be able to accomplish much in PvP. And you'll be farming npc's and resource gathering for hours in order to get enough reagents to work up your magic skills.
I never used a macro, but I know why people did. Its a tough thing when you realize that cheating would have increased your enjoyment of a game heh.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't play Darkfall, it definitely is a fun game but why in the world would you lie to someone about it? They are just going to discover it for themselves in game anyway.
I will definitely try Darkfall 2.0, I just hope they do a wipe. I LOVED their city building mechanics, some AAA developer should steal it.
friend of mine recently tried the game and he didnt want to afk macro, so set off killing goblins. He killed them 8 hours per day for a week straight and unsubbed. Esentially he burnt himself out raising stats by killing monsters over and over and over again. Given the choice of farming 8 hours per day or macroing i would choose macroing. Dont try to defend the game by offering an alternative when that alternative is essentially worse.
it should take 2 weeks, max of grinding to level a fully pvp ready char, also there should be skill caps of like 100 per skill and a max skill cap. The game is heavily flawed by stupid mechanics.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Yeah I don't even mind grinding to be honest. Its just that not everyone had to do the same grinding, there was all sorts of macroing and outright cheating via game mechanics so that if you actually tried to do it the "right" way you were way behind the curve in the first month after the server opened. I'm sorry but bloodwalling should have been policed heavily even though I resorted to it. Afk swimmers/runners should have been autologged. Repeat offenders should have been punished by scaling ban lengths.
And heck, that doesn't even begin to cover the actual skill grind cheating via macro's, scripts and other tools.
Yes it would have taken alot of employee time and yes some people would have complained. But no, none of that happened so it died. Which is what happens to any pvp game when people can not only break the spirit of the rules but outright cheat (by which I mean skill grinding cheating, I didn't see too much pvp cheating though some things like wall/speed hacks were evident on occasion).
Its just sad really. It would have worked much better if everyone was on a level playing ground with only the skills you could get from active pvp and pve.
Its just sad really. It would have worked much better if everyone was on a level playing ground with only the skills you could get from active pvp and pve.
It's well over 2 years later. Many players who've played legit are either "maxed" or have reached a very top "tier" competitive threshold. New Players would still heavily struggle if they joined 1 or 2 years later, and I'd actually argue that DarkFall might have "died" had it not been for Macro'ing which made the main aspects of the game bearable, and gave players with a job a chance to stay competitive and keep playing. That really helped players stick around. Sadly, the game still falls shorts in so many aspects which has resulted in a terribly low population, with the mention of the wipe making it even lower.
Comments
I think a great game require great gamers to play.
Too many enter games with the mindset of them need to be max to start playing. They start afk-macroing or cheating to reach highest levels first and even without illegal activities they don't enjoy enything in their playtime if not some max numbers on their toon is reached. (and even start complaining in forums about how much they have to invest to become max)
Once there was one of the greatest game ever it was Star Wars Galaxies and even these great game couldn't stop people with the mentality "need to max out to start playing".
Fore great gamers there isn't much better games out better then Darkfall. IMO it is the best on the market atm.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I quit DFO last ... decemeber because I got bored with the game, not because of macroing. I never had a maxed out toon and never felt I lost because of it. When people say "its been 2 years and I still have a long way" they are saying that because they are trying to max out everything. If you try to max out everything you will burn yourself out. For instance, maxed manna efficentcy = 1-2 more spells. Is that really going to determine the out come of a fight? 110 str vs 60str = ~2 damage per swing difference, is that going to determine the out come of a fight?
The devs thought that allowing people to max out everything, but making it nearly impossible to do without cheating, would have forced people into specialization, they were wrong peopel simply cheated.
The only reason they are added in these meditation systems is because people cheated which caused the new vs vet gap to be huge even if other changes were made (first 50 levels = 80% of out put). Now, the vet vs 6 month character gap is virtually no existent. You could easily be "competetive" i.e. having 1 2h weapon 50 mastery, 350+ hp, all the spells, spell schools, and decent intensifiers in ~3 months of normal play. If you are super casual (less than 10hrs/week) it'll take you 2x as long, but thats how it is with every game on the market. The difference is, you don't get pked. With the changes in the alignment system + being able to live in a fortress, that isn't much of a problem.
However, the game is not balanced, there isn't much for a solo player to do (its a sandbox), and there are other things that make the game stale quickly. Those are the reasons not to play DFO, grind is the furtherst from DFO's over all problem.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I don't quite think that's how it went.
In my opinion, Aventurine was extremely naive thinking that players would simply play the game how AV played it when they tested it. They never quite had professional testers to figure out the exploits and such, so they've never had another opinion outside of theirs...until the game launched but at this point it was too late.
the part in red is the exact reason i quit DF. u also dont realize how many "PVP" spells u cant macro that u have to grind on mobs to be viable in combat. i finished all the BS easy macro grind spells, aka 7 months of grinding and hundreds of thousands of regs later before i realized i had a much harder and riskier grind left and i just didnt have the will left continue. also if u are in a massive war it can be extremely hard to keep that grind going unless u are an insomniac and can stay up until the wee hours. btw a massive war can go on for months and take up 95% of your gametime when your logged on.
grind time has been significantly reduced since alot of you guys have been playing i think. I made a new character a month ago to prove a point and he is already pvp viable with 370hp 100/100 archery almost 75 GS mastery and all the healing/utility spells i need. Granted i cant stand 1v1 vs a 2year player, i can still probably kill 75% of the players ingame.
People need to get out of the mentality that u need everything maxed in order to play. I mean while a vet has the advantage of mastering every spell school, a newer player can specialise in fire and use a firestaff and deal as much dmg as a vet. Skilling to 100 in a spell school is incredibly fast and if you pve/level at the same time, you will see how fast your skills go up.
please bear in mind not everyone is as good as each other in this game and you will not believe how many people flamed my 1 month char calling me a 2year vet/crutching on skills when i would be hitting them 2-3x as much as they were hitting me.
Havent checked this thread for a while. My thoughts are coming back to DFO from time to time. First I read when I check DFO forum out again, is this. Thanks but no thanks. Depressing reading. Great game though. I shrug when I think about all the grind I need.... Really sad, cause the game is great apart from that.
Your post makes no sense. You ARE a veteran. You probably know "it all". At first you say you can't stand 1vs1 with anyone, then you say you can beat 75% of all players. If you, as a veteran, can't beat anyone, how do you expect newbs do in this game? They are slaughtered and ganked 24/7 for months & months. Until they quit.
Some can live with the gank, to more or lesser degree like I did, while some can not. Some can live with the grind, until a point, like I did, before I quit.
The massive 'grind' compared with the massive 'gank' is just too much for a game like this to be considered "successful". At some point 99% of all people will give up and resign. In the end majority of the community will be veterans, mostly consisting of those who have played the game from it's release.
On the Europe server there are people who's ONLY purpose is to gank newbs and rob them for all their belongings. They are using all tricks they can to turn them open for pvp, which can be very frustrating as well as not much fun. When this shit happens every day for like a week, you think anyone would stay? Nah, theres enough games that offeres more fun than be ganked & robbed when you play...
Is there a solution to all this? One might be to make all skills increased though meditation. That would also remove the lame afk grinding, which is a huge gamebreaking factor for me; I really fail to see the point of a game where you at first need to play it hardcore like insane to be competetive, and when you log off you need to afk grind too. It becomes an obsession in the end. Which is worse than feeling game is a "grind" or a "job"...
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Guys & girls! Long time since I visited this thread. I still miss the thrill from what DFO gave me (which I never felt as much in any other game). I havent though, forgot why I left.
Are there any good news for me? Can anyone tell me if there's any light in the tunell as I would instantly return if there is, were or are some significant changes in the grind.
I would also like to know if there have been any updates to the UI. I bought several keyboards as well as the G13 just for DFO's sake. A shame it is just dusting down beside me on the floor...
Give me some good news please
.
Cheers!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
You stoped playing pre-meditation ? If yes, then you might find the meditation system as a very usefull tool to reduce the "grind" (afk skill progression).
The next patch scheduled this month will introduce a new siege system - it will be already the the what.. 3rd siege system now ? which allow multisieging and will hinder "selfsieging".
Mid-August the coding will be done on the "new Darkfall" which will also introduce a new UI. So far is the info we know.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I just came back few days ago, and even if meditation is a great improvement the answer is yes, it is still a uber grind. First meditation which is an offline skilling, is expensive, a medium leveled char will burn 1 to 2 hour of pve in it per day, which is a lot to me. Second it is still super slow, 1 to 2 month to max a single stat. And last you basically can't meditate any of your combat related skills and spells, neither your craft. So its basically your stat and the basic skills nobody care about like rigor and those useless skills nobody even know what use they have if they have any tbh. You need between 3 to 5k gold per day to get you an idea if you already played the game to put in meditation, since you buy your mediation with ingame gold. Honestly med is good only if you already have a medium leveled char or have a guild paying for you which is just super strange to me.
So ye the game is still a uber grind, definitly to me. I try to catch up my crafting now so to have some decent gear, since you also have a nice gear grind on top of the skill grind, and have to burn weeks and weeks worth of gathering mat to go up 2 or3 rank of gear, crafted like hundreds of swords and useless armor parts. I don't even understand how they can design such crap honestly, it is so stupid, useless and frustrating, half the gear of the game is totally useless. And this is just a stupid exemple, the whole game is build that way, i really don't know who designed the progression system of this game but he must be a strange guy to keep it polite.
They say they are cleaning that crap in their next version, but honestly that would mean they took 95% of the game out, i don't know what will be left, somehow i can't take those guys seriously anymore. We all have to see the new game and the reactions about it; and so nioce games like GW2 are going out. It was really bad luck i resubbed few days before the anouncement, so ill play this month without any hope tbh.
The immersive aspect of this game was the best i had in all my mmos though, such a waste.
So, would you recommend DF in its current state or playing UO to get that sandbox do anything you want feel
Honestly i'm not sure, neither i guess. Uo got stomped so much, its not even close to what it used to be, and have such an old graphism, even playing some emulated pre trammel server won't give you the feelling it had. DF, is an interesting game for sure, but i'm not sure its that good. Or maybe play both if you played neither of them, you will still learn a lot and have some good time in both, those game are still better than anything else put together tbh. If you look only for the sandbox, play Eve or some totally unknown mmo like Heaven & Hearth. Sandbox doesn't exist apart from those 2 to me.
Yah I've been playing EvE lately but sometimes it wears me out knowing I'll have to wait 2-3 months to get into a new fun ship etc. Also supers are completely broken and I'm nowhere near one so that kind of deflates interest as well. I plan to keep my account active, but I need something for a change of pace and more active combat.
I'm trying UO on a free shard and it seems great, but so much when I haven't really played the game (I played MUDs when this was big) seems like I'm too late.
Might go into Darkfall expecting no more than a month of gameplay. I don't mind grinding skills up by actively fighting stuff and farming and such, but needing to do it offline/afking as well seems more tedius than I care to bother with.
I don't understand how a game like UO and such grinding wasn't an issue, it was welcome, but here if you can't compete with vets 3 months in, then the game is pointless.
Ye thats what everyone tell them since years, but i guess they want to appeal to those that look for an "old school" mmo where you needed to dedicate so much effort into them to go anywhere. If you have or can join a good clan, you might have it easy though, its not a bad game really, you will loose nothing playing few months.
Well there is a big difference between UO grind and Darkfall Grind you could max out a 7x gm in a week or two of good playing on UO. You could play Darkfall for over a year straight and never get max'd out on your stats. I do like Darkfall dont get me wrong just your comparing apples to oranges. But also Darkfall pvp is more player skill oriented and also it is pretty easy to escape from reds on Darkfall if they try to grief you. So in short no you dont have to afk grind to enjoy darkfall however if your the player who thinks he should be able to beat everyone on the server then find a different game because this one aint for you.
Cool man I appreciate the seemingly unbiased input. I don't particularly care about being the baddest mofo with the best stuff.
Is escaping really that easy? I was thinking that would be the deciding factor for me. Not being able to beat the vets is fine, but being cannon fodder for them over and over doesn't sound like fun. In EvE you can't really 1v1 a long time vet, but there are plenty of ways to play safe and avoid confrontation.
My main thing is I hate playing solo. My idea of having fun in this game would be to be able to go out exploring/killing mobs and such with at least 1 other person almost all the time. Is this the kind of game where you are better off soloing and thus shunning random grouping?
EVE Online has been successful with just that. There are bigger issues.
No. Escaping is not "that" easy. Veterans will be able to kill you in seconds for months. And trust me, that will happen. Theres no chance you can escape any veteran unless you are close to an NPC city. And still they would be able to kill you even with a few shots from the protecting towers.
The grind is massive, and it seems to me that the grind is only reduced by so little that it is barely noticeble. You can get your stats up to 100 through meditation, but it will take months. But then you have to grind up all your spells needed to be competetive. THAT will take years for anyone who's not willing to afk grind.
Yes; I did play a little while after meditation was released. It was not even close to whats needed to reduce the grind to be able for me to stay.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
In the probably 6-7months of active game time in Darkfall I have played I have been killed by NPC monsters more than griefers while farming mid-high level NPC spawns. The only time it is hard to escape from a griefer would be if you are low on health and inside a dungeon when you encounter them. In the open world it is quite easy to escape griefers in my opinion. As long as you have a mount obviously. The person I am quoting above just seems like a pure hater to me honestly. If you were compare Darkfall to WOW it is harder to be epic at pvp in WOW than Darkfall because WOW you must farm the top tier dungeons repeatedly to get your epic gear and better gear vs worse gear in WOW is about 90% guarantee better gear wins. Darkfall I have killed fully geared vet players naked with a bow and arrows. Yes my archery is maxed but my player stats are not. Darkfall = twitch combat/skill/stats/armor all combined to determine pvp viability. If you liked Shadowbane/SWG/ or UO I would assume you would at least moderatly enjoy DF to me SWG was best the UO/DF tie then Shadowbane.
Well I sort of agree that escaping isn't that hard as long as you are careful AND have a mount .. if you're on foot, forget about it.
But what he said about spells is absolutely true. The spell grind is there and just as bad as at release, especially because you have to grind for reagents. If you don't afk macro your spells then you are going to be severely limited in pvp. Although I guess an alternative would be using a bow, but even then without spells .. yikes.
A game to keep an eye on is ArcheAge if you want ffa pvp in a sandbox. Also maybe Darkfall 2.0 will actually happen.
Hey some questions if ya all don't mind. I tried darkfall for about 20 minutes a long time ago just curious if character run animations are still the joke they were at or close to release? Honestly cant remember when I tried the game must of been a year ago.
Honestly the absolutily terrible run animation of my toon prob turned me off the most lol. That and well I started a toon...got my bonus trainer weapon or whatever, went out of town to some tower to kill some mobs and prompty got one shot by some dude camping.
Note that I love PVP. I played shadowbane for ages and have been playig eve for years (more before the nano nerf when I coudl actually solo). So nope dont mind losing stuff. its just that I want to be competetive. Even if I have to wait for a month to put up a fight wouldnt be bad as long as i dont get ganked 24/7 while actually trying to do so.
As of now you've gotta play hardcore (20+ hr/week) for 3 months to be able to put up a fight. And you'll get ganked constantly at all the spawns while trying to skill up.
I wish these things were not true about Darkfall, but they are. I enjoyed the game when I played it but like so many promising indie sandbox titles it just didn't come together as I would have liked.
Oy, the UI and control setup, why do developers try to reinvent the wheel? It was needlessly clunky to be charitable.
And yeah the grinding that you need to do in order to be competitive. I was with a decent sized guild and participated in several sieges as a relative newbie. I'm sorry but you just aren't going to accomplish anything. First of all during a siege is when the heavy hitters come out to play so you'll most likely die many times just trying to get near the objective because so many players will stumble across you along the way. Then once you get there you'll most likely contribute a few tens of damage via archery (because you haven't spent 2 months working up your magic yet) before needing to be rezzed (if you are lucky).
That wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that you can't actually work up your skills in any meaningful way via PvP. You have to use PvE and bloodwalling where groups of friendly characters bang on each other to raise offensive/defensive skills efficiently. If you don't do that for at least a few months while logging out swimming into a wall or with a coin wedged under your shift key to sprint into a wall then you just won't be able to accomplish much in PvP. And you'll be farming npc's and resource gathering for hours in order to get enough reagents to work up your magic skills.
I never used a macro, but I know why people did. Its a tough thing when you realize that cheating would have increased your enjoyment of a game heh.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't play Darkfall, it definitely is a fun game but why in the world would you lie to someone about it? They are just going to discover it for themselves in game anyway.
I will definitely try Darkfall 2.0, I just hope they do a wipe. I LOVED their city building mechanics, some AAA developer should steal it.
friend of mine recently tried the game and he didnt want to afk macro, so set off killing goblins. He killed them 8 hours per day for a week straight and unsubbed. Esentially he burnt himself out raising stats by killing monsters over and over and over again. Given the choice of farming 8 hours per day or macroing i would choose macroing. Dont try to defend the game by offering an alternative when that alternative is essentially worse.
it should take 2 weeks, max of grinding to level a fully pvp ready char, also there should be skill caps of like 100 per skill and a max skill cap. The game is heavily flawed by stupid mechanics.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Yeah I don't even mind grinding to be honest. Its just that not everyone had to do the same grinding, there was all sorts of macroing and outright cheating via game mechanics so that if you actually tried to do it the "right" way you were way behind the curve in the first month after the server opened. I'm sorry but bloodwalling should have been policed heavily even though I resorted to it. Afk swimmers/runners should have been autologged. Repeat offenders should have been punished by scaling ban lengths.
And heck, that doesn't even begin to cover the actual skill grind cheating via macro's, scripts and other tools.
Yes it would have taken alot of employee time and yes some people would have complained. But no, none of that happened so it died. Which is what happens to any pvp game when people can not only break the spirit of the rules but outright cheat (by which I mean skill grinding cheating, I didn't see too much pvp cheating though some things like wall/speed hacks were evident on occasion).
Its just sad really. It would have worked much better if everyone was on a level playing ground with only the skills you could get from active pvp and pve.
It's well over 2 years later. Many players who've played legit are either "maxed" or have reached a very top "tier" competitive threshold. New Players would still heavily struggle if they joined 1 or 2 years later, and I'd actually argue that DarkFall might have "died" had it not been for Macro'ing which made the main aspects of the game bearable, and gave players with a job a chance to stay competitive and keep playing. That really helped players stick around. Sadly, the game still falls shorts in so many aspects which has resulted in a terribly low population, with the mention of the wipe making it even lower.