All they have to do is start a new server with all the new 2.0 stuff. If enough people stay to make the old ser ver viable they keep it going. . if not they shut it down.
Well thats also a problem. Because alot of these vets that are crying bloody murder over a wipe also don't want a new server. Thats mostly because all new players would join that server logically and many people on the current server that do want a wipe would too, and their old server would be left for dead, and to be fair, if the relaunch failed, then you would simply have 2 dead servers(na) as opposed to one on life support.
This poll is kind of stupid because it's clear a lot of these people know nothing about darkfall. It says to apply the op to any game like "wow" for example. But wiping arbitrary games is obviously stupid, because no other game is in the position of darkfall. It's stupid to wipe wow because it already gets wiped every expansion(essentially) for example.
Also, why would there be reason to distrust av (more than the obvious reason that already exist) if they wiped? They are only considering it for a relaunch of the game. How many relaunches can really exist...because if this one fails I'll bet there is not another one.
No. Definitely a trust issue. And as others said, what happened to SWG when they rolled out NGE. Wipes essentially invalidate the premise that the game is persistant and makes whatever you have worked on, and what you may be working on is wasted.
Also the idea that you'd need to clean the slate to give people the ability to 'catch up' in EvE is false.
In a skill based game, with full loot, and clan warfare mechanics I think its ok to wipe the server after major changes.
I see it this way for two reasons.
1. The Devs ganked you and stole all your stuff and skill, get over it. That is what these games are about, dealing with harsh realities.
2. It will create a fairly balanced world for a few months, which was by far the best time in DF.
For a game like Warcraft, it would be a bad thing. But Warcraft can afford just to roll out a new server.
It sounds harsh but I kind of agree with Revivial here. Even so, everybody who worked so hard on their characters for the last two years has my sympathies.......If that means anything. I think the new world with an even playing feild will be cool in DF. I may even come back. I think it may also bring in a few new players and fence sitters.
I've never played Darkfall and have no interest in it, so a wipe doesn't affect me either way.
That said, I think for any game that is FFA PvP with full loot and has a skill-based system without classes or levels, which is my understanding of how DF works, a wipe for a relaunch makes total sense. If you don't wipe and then relaunch the game as an entirely new game, then new players come in to people with massive guild and personal houses, maxed out skills, lots of cash on hand, etc. If the 2.0 version is supposed to be brand new and supposed to remake the game from the ground up, starting everyone off on an even playing field and letting them get back up to where they were would make the most sense from a developer perspective.
From a player perspective, however, losing all that time and work you did would suck. But if you're really that uber and that good, it shouldn't be a problem to get back to where you were in the first place, especially if you've got a strong guild.
Reset everyone's character in Eve online and CCP might as well just file bankruptcy...they would be done, and so would Eve.
Do it like Fippy Darkpaw on EQ1 and it will be fine (meaning don't erase the old server, just make a new one for those who choose to utilize it).
CCP wouldn't be stupid enough to wipe EVE. Their entire playerbase would leave. And EQ is an entirely different type of game, so just opening up a new server makes sense.
With a game like Darkfall, I can easily see the merits of a wipe, especially if some of those stronger characters got where they are by hacking and exploiting and cheating. A wipe puts everyone back at start and lets them rebuild. If you're really that good, it wouldn't be a problem.
If it was a low population game and it meant that there was a large increase in subscription numbers which the game badly, badly needed, then yes ofc I would.
If it was already a large population game or I didn't think it would result in a large increase in subs then no.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Depends on how good the game is. I'd take an official Ultima Online T2A server (which would fix years of mistakes by EA) and deal with a character wipe. I voted yes, since it could be any game.
Edit: To add on, if it helped population on a game I loved but was suffering from this issue, I would also be OK with it...
As a frequent player of darkfall and a vet of two years i can say if they do release a whole new game like they say they are a wipe would make the most sense. Right now there are hardly any sieges because two or three clans own just about everything, and if there is a siege its mainly mercs vs mercs.
Darkfall now has offline lvling and there is no way it would take any self respecting veteran as long to remake a decent character. Most of us have made two charaters anyway and the other half have been banned and rerolled a new toon.
By the way Darkfall 2010 is the Darkfall 2,0 theyre refering to. Theyve apparently been working on it longer than the game has been out.
AV has to think about wether or not they want new players to actually play because right now its only about 3000-4000 at prime time and im being very generous. A wipe would bring a load of new players and old players back to see whats new. Also i feel they would need to advertise or theyll have the same problem as before with no one knowing wtf Darkfall is.
In the end i feel any vet who cries about the wipe will either quit and man up and just make another toon. If he quits then im sure some one else will fill his shoes.
I honestly dont see them wiping the server because of all the whiners that play Darkfall but i feel it would be a good business desiscion on AVs part.
Any MMO could be considered (World of Warcraft) for this poll but its more focused on the ones with big "new to endgame" gaps.
Lets say you played a game that had veteran players own your face or said game made you fell like you could not compete unless you had played it years. Lets say you liked the idea of said game but that veteren curve and possibly learning curve was harsh.
Would you return to said game if the developers did the below:
Have worked over the past year to made a "2.0" of the game. They call it a "new game" as they wanted to build something better. They say they have learned from their past mistakes and said people who have bought the game do not have to buy it again for this "re-boot".
Two current game examples I can think of is EVE Online and Darkfall Online. I am sure there are many other games that are like this (Aion?).
Keep in mind that a wipe would enrage the current players who spent multiple years maxing out their current characters. Not only that any sane developer would be making it easier for new players to "catch up" which would have already enraged them. As the saying goes the people with the loudest voice are the pissed off minority. We trust developers of these persistant worlds wont lose our charactors, so wiping could be a trust issue. What do you think?
Edit: above circumstances
Seriously? I mean you could do a better job coming up with something completely unrealistic in order to get thread activity. How about:
"Would you come back to an MMO that required that you cut off both of your legs after having a subscription payment bounce?"
The answer to your unrealistic hypothetical (which I only came here in the first place thinking it was actually true) is obvious.
I wouldn't bother playing a game that was so f'd up that it needed a wipe to be fixed. What makes you think they would get it right this time..or the next..or the next.
It is pretty obvious that there is something wrong here and a wipe probably would not be the answer. Maybe short term it would but unless whatever is obviously broken here gets fixed the problem will come back time and time again.
I wouldn't bother playing a game that was so f'd up that it needed a wipe to be fixed. What makes you think they would get it right this time..or the next..or the next.
agree
game wants to revolutionize its gameplay? it can create new servers with this "better" gameplay
Yes I would. The fresh start feeling and the not-yet-achieved-goals and possibilities are what I enjoy most in mmorpg, much more than state of boredom in the end-game when there is nothing to do but constantly grind the same instances/daily quests ad nauseam.
CCP wouldn't be stupid enough to wipe EVE. Their entire playerbase would leave. And EQ is an entirely different type of game, so just opening up a new server makes sense. The point is that every game will have it's own optimal solution. Just because a wipe is "a solution" doesn't mean it's the best solution or even a good one.
With a game like Darkfall, I can easily see the merits of a wipe, especially if some of those stronger characters got where they are by hacking and exploiting and cheating. A wipe puts everyone back at start and lets them rebuild. If you're really that good, it wouldn't be a problem. Is it mostly being "good" (ie having a high degree of skill at the game) that allowed veteran, "high level" players to progress as far as they have over the last couple of years, or rather is it mostly grinding (which requires very little skill)? If it's the latter, then a wipe would be a problem, because then you're asking them to regrind all over again.That would be very unreasonable for the players who achieved their status fairly.
Your take on it sounds like if the player is skilled enough, then a wipe shouldn't matter since they are skilled enough to get back to where they were pre wipe anyway. Is that correct?
If so, then my reply is that it isn't a matter of being so good at the game you can just grind your way back up to the top. It's that you already did it and it is very unreasonable to be forced to do it again.
If a wipe has merits due to whatever reason, fair enough. It still doesn't mean that a wipe is the best choice. There could be much, much better solutions. A wipe is just one option.
Any MMO could be considered (World of Warcraft) for this poll but its more focused on the ones with big "new to endgame" gaps.
Lets say you played a game that had veteran players own your face or said game made you fell like you could not compete unless you had played it years. Lets say you liked the idea of said game but that veteren curve and possibly learning curve was harsh.
Would you return to said game if the developers did the below:
Have worked over the past year to made a "2.0" of the game. They call it a "new game" as they wanted to build something better. They say they have learned from their past mistakes and said people who have bought the game do not have to buy it again for this "re-boot".
Two current game examples I can think of is EVE Online and Darkfall Online. I am sure there are many other games that are like this (Aion?).
Keep in mind that a wipe would enrage the current players who spent multiple years maxing out their current characters. Not only that any sane developer would be making it easier for new players to "catch up" which would have already enraged them. As the saying goes the people with the loudest voice are the pissed off minority. We trust developers of these persistant worlds wont lose our charactors, so wiping could be a trust issue. What do you think?
Edit: above circumstances
As long as the old vets were rewarded in some way such as statues, titles, unique cosmetic gear according to their sub time then yes I would.
Fresh servers are awesome, I hate restarting in top heavy titles.
Reset everyone's character in Eve online and CCP might as well just file bankruptcy...they would be done, and so would Eve.
<>
However on one hand a new player would not be able to catch up to another player that has billions of ISK to throw away. Actually, what you said here couldn't be more untrue. New players can, without a doubt, "catch up." I know from personal experience. New players join Eve all the time and do just fine.
How many people would try EVE if a wipe happened and they changed things around? Impossible to guess at the number, especially without more facts from you concerning the changes to be made. Although i bet you that in the process of getting new players, if any, that they would lose many of their current playerbase regardless of the changes, unless those changes are just so badass that the game would be like a brand new game and if starting Eve again would be the equivilent to the players being forced to quit old Eve and start a new game entirely.
Your take on it sounds like if the player is skilled enough, then a wipe shouldn't matter since they are skilled enough to get back to where they were pre wipe anyway. Is that correct?
If so, then my reply is that it isn't a matter of being so good at the game you can just grind your way back up to the top. It's that you already did it and it is very unreasonable to be forced to do it again.
If a wipe has merits due to whatever reason, fair enough. It still doesn't mean that a wipe is the best choice. There could be much, much better solutions. A wipe is just one option.
Yes, you're correct. In an FFA PvP game that is about skill and doesn't have levels and classes, my take on it is if you're legitimately good enough to be one of the top dogs now, you won't have a problem getting back on top if there's a wipe.
HOWEVER, as I said-- I don't play Darkfall. It's not to my tastes and I have no interest in playing it. All of this discussion is simply academic for me.
Is it unreasonable to ask players to re-grind skills and claw their way back up to the top after two years? Possibly. But if the developers feel that a wipe and re-launch will be the best way to not only remake and rebrand the game from the ground up and put everyone on an even playing field to get rid of characters that became overpowered due to hacks, cheats, and exploits, then that might be their only real option.
I don't know. I'm not part of Aventurine, and I'm not a DF player. I don't have a stake in this. Just some random thoughts. That's all.
Yes, you're correct. In an FFA PvP game that is about skill and doesn't have levels and classes, my take on it is if you're legitimately good enough to be one of the top dogs now, you won't have a problem getting back on top if there's a wipe. I don't think anyone thinks any good DF player will have a problem getting back to where they are now. That is not the issue.
The issue is that it takes a really, really, really long time to do so. The issue is also whether or not asking the players who achieved their current status fairly to regrind it all is a reasonable request. I can't imagine how it would be reasonable to ask that of any player, other than the player who loves to grind and grind away.
HOWEVER, as I said-- I don't play Darkfall. It's not to my tastes and I have no interest in playing it. All of this discussion is simply academic for me. Same for me. Forum posts come off as hostile usually. I have no idea why.
Is it unreasonable to ask players to re-grind skills and claw their way back up to the top after two years? Possibly. But if the developers feel that a wipe and re-launch will be the best way to not only remake and rebrand the game from the ground up and put everyone on an even playing field to get rid of characters that became overpowered due to hacks, cheats, and exploits, then that might be their only real option. If the developers feel that it is their only option, maybe then it is. I've yet to see that assertion anywhere. Until then, and until that assertion withstands scrutiny, I doubt that a wipe is the best option.
I don't know. I'm not part of Aventurine, and I'm not a DF player. I don't have a stake in this. Just some random thoughts. That's all.
I answered no with a specific game in mind, EQ2, but the truth is, for me, it would depend on the game. UO wipe would also piss me off. WoW wipe, not so much. Games that are easier to progress in and don't have so many things you OWN .....okay well, with WoW losing my hundreds of mounts WOULD indeed piss me off, but losing all my rare items and furniture and stuff in EQ2 would piss me off MORE, because I have a LOT of stuff in EQ2 that has taken me years and a good deal of effort to obtain. I guess there are different degrees of effort for me and my level of "pissed offness" (lol) would depend upon that. I would quit a game that had a wipe if it was something like EQ2, yes.
So for me it depends on the game, but unexpected wipes ARE a trust issue. If you didn't tell me there would be wipes (or A wipe) when I started playing your game.....you had better not surprise me with one. That's just not cool.
Any MMO could be considered (World of Warcraft) for this poll but its more focused on the ones with big "new to endgame" gaps.
Lets say you played a game that had veteran players own your face or said game made you fell like you could not compete unless you had played it years. Lets say you liked the idea of said game but that veteren curve and possibly learning curve was harsh.
Would you return to said game if the developers did the below:
Have worked over the past year to made a "2.0" of the game. They call it a "new game" as they wanted to build something better. They say they have learned from their past mistakes and said people who have bought the game do not have to buy it again for this "re-boot".
Two current game examples I can think of is EVE Online and Darkfall Online. I am sure there are many other games that are like this (Aion?).
Keep in mind that a wipe would enrage the current players who spent multiple years maxing out their current characters. Not only that any sane developer would be making it easier for new players to "catch up" which would have already enraged them. As the saying goes the people with the loudest voice are the pissed off minority. We trust developers of these persistant worlds wont lose our charactors, so wiping could be a trust issue. What do you think?
Edit: above circumstances
It's called 'opening a new server' since there is no reason at all for any MMO developer to destroy the singlemost powerful factor in player retention - attachment to one's character. Besides, after a month or two you'd be right back to where you were, whether it is a wipe or a new server. If anyone bothers to stick around, that is.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Yes.
If the game was SWG and the year was 2006.
Well thats also a problem. Because alot of these vets that are crying bloody murder over a wipe also don't want a new server. Thats mostly because all new players would join that server logically and many people on the current server that do want a wipe would too, and their old server would be left for dead, and to be fair, if the relaunch failed, then you would simply have 2 dead servers(na) as opposed to one on life support.
This poll is kind of stupid because it's clear a lot of these people know nothing about darkfall. It says to apply the op to any game like "wow" for example. But wiping arbitrary games is obviously stupid, because no other game is in the position of darkfall. It's stupid to wipe wow because it already gets wiped every expansion(essentially) for example.
Also, why would there be reason to distrust av (more than the obvious reason that already exist) if they wiped? They are only considering it for a relaunch of the game. How many relaunches can really exist...because if this one fails I'll bet there is not another one.
No. Definitely a trust issue. And as others said, what happened to SWG when they rolled out NGE. Wipes essentially invalidate the premise that the game is persistant and makes whatever you have worked on, and what you may be working on is wasted.
Also the idea that you'd need to clean the slate to give people the ability to 'catch up' in EvE is false.
It sounds harsh but I kind of agree with Revivial here. Even so, everybody who worked so hard on their characters for the last two years has my sympathies.......If that means anything. I think the new world with an even playing feild will be cool in DF. I may even come back. I think it may also bring in a few new players and fence sitters.
I've never played Darkfall and have no interest in it, so a wipe doesn't affect me either way.
That said, I think for any game that is FFA PvP with full loot and has a skill-based system without classes or levels, which is my understanding of how DF works, a wipe for a relaunch makes total sense. If you don't wipe and then relaunch the game as an entirely new game, then new players come in to people with massive guild and personal houses, maxed out skills, lots of cash on hand, etc. If the 2.0 version is supposed to be brand new and supposed to remake the game from the ground up, starting everyone off on an even playing field and letting them get back up to where they were would make the most sense from a developer perspective.
From a player perspective, however, losing all that time and work you did would suck. But if you're really that uber and that good, it shouldn't be a problem to get back to where you were in the first place, especially if you've got a strong guild.
CCP wouldn't be stupid enough to wipe EVE. Their entire playerbase would leave. And EQ is an entirely different type of game, so just opening up a new server makes sense.
With a game like Darkfall, I can easily see the merits of a wipe, especially if some of those stronger characters got where they are by hacking and exploiting and cheating. A wipe puts everyone back at start and lets them rebuild. If you're really that good, it wouldn't be a problem.
If it was a low population game and it meant that there was a large increase in subscription numbers which the game badly, badly needed, then yes ofc I would.
If it was already a large population game or I didn't think it would result in a large increase in subs then no.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I would likely return to such a re-release but doesn't mean I will stay though.
Depends on how good the game is. I'd take an official Ultima Online T2A server (which would fix years of mistakes by EA) and deal with a character wipe. I voted yes, since it could be any game.
Edit: To add on, if it helped population on a game I loved but was suffering from this issue, I would also be OK with it...
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
As a frequent player of darkfall and a vet of two years i can say if they do release a whole new game like they say they are a wipe would make the most sense. Right now there are hardly any sieges because two or three clans own just about everything, and if there is a siege its mainly mercs vs mercs.
Darkfall now has offline lvling and there is no way it would take any self respecting veteran as long to remake a decent character. Most of us have made two charaters anyway and the other half have been banned and rerolled a new toon.
By the way Darkfall 2010 is the Darkfall 2,0 theyre refering to. Theyve apparently been working on it longer than the game has been out.
AV has to think about wether or not they want new players to actually play because right now its only about 3000-4000 at prime time and im being very generous. A wipe would bring a load of new players and old players back to see whats new. Also i feel they would need to advertise or theyll have the same problem as before with no one knowing wtf Darkfall is.
In the end i feel any vet who cries about the wipe will either quit and man up and just make another toon. If he quits then im sure some one else will fill his shoes.
I honestly dont see them wiping the server because of all the whiners that play Darkfall but i feel it would be a good business desiscion on AVs part.
Maybe if the game were Tabula Rasa
Seriously? I mean you could do a better job coming up with something completely unrealistic in order to get thread activity. How about:
"Would you come back to an MMO that required that you cut off both of your legs after having a subscription payment bounce?"
The answer to your unrealistic hypothetical (which I only came here in the first place thinking it was actually true) is obvious.
I wouldn't bother playing a game that was so f'd up that it needed a wipe to be fixed. What makes you think they would get it right this time..or the next..or the next.
It is pretty obvious that there is something wrong here and a wipe probably would not be the answer. Maybe short term it would but unless whatever is obviously broken here gets fixed the problem will come back time and time again.
agree
game wants to revolutionize its gameplay? it can create new servers with this "better" gameplay
EQ2 fan sites
Yes I would. The fresh start feeling and the not-yet-achieved-goals and possibilities are what I enjoy most in mmorpg, much more than state of boredom in the end-game when there is nothing to do but constantly grind the same instances/daily quests ad nauseam.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/320105/DF2.html
As long as the old vets were rewarded in some way such as statues, titles, unique cosmetic gear according to their sub time then yes I would.
Fresh servers are awesome, I hate restarting in top heavy titles.
Yes, you're correct. In an FFA PvP game that is about skill and doesn't have levels and classes, my take on it is if you're legitimately good enough to be one of the top dogs now, you won't have a problem getting back on top if there's a wipe.
HOWEVER, as I said-- I don't play Darkfall. It's not to my tastes and I have no interest in playing it. All of this discussion is simply academic for me.
Is it unreasonable to ask players to re-grind skills and claw their way back up to the top after two years? Possibly. But if the developers feel that a wipe and re-launch will be the best way to not only remake and rebrand the game from the ground up and put everyone on an even playing field to get rid of characters that became overpowered due to hacks, cheats, and exploits, then that might be their only real option.
I don't know. I'm not part of Aventurine, and I'm not a DF player. I don't have a stake in this. Just some random thoughts. That's all.
If you cannot evolve an existing game smoothly from state A to state B, I have no confidence in your ability to design state B in the first place.
I answered no with a specific game in mind, EQ2, but the truth is, for me, it would depend on the game. UO wipe would also piss me off. WoW wipe, not so much. Games that are easier to progress in and don't have so many things you OWN .....okay well, with WoW losing my hundreds of mounts WOULD indeed piss me off, but losing all my rare items and furniture and stuff in EQ2 would piss me off MORE, because I have a LOT of stuff in EQ2 that has taken me years and a good deal of effort to obtain. I guess there are different degrees of effort for me and my level of "pissed offness" (lol) would depend upon that. I would quit a game that had a wipe if it was something like EQ2, yes.
So for me it depends on the game, but unexpected wipes ARE a trust issue. If you didn't tell me there would be wipes (or A wipe) when I started playing your game.....you had better not surprise me with one. That's just not cool.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
It's called 'opening a new server' since there is no reason at all for any MMO developer to destroy the singlemost powerful factor in player retention - attachment to one's character. Besides, after a month or two you'd be right back to where you were, whether it is a wipe or a new server. If anyone bothers to stick around, that is.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre