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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Do Weapon Restrictions Bug You?
MikeB
Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,555
Do the weapon restriction built into Star Wars: The Old Republic's class design bug you? Well, they sure bug MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton! Check out what he has to say on the subject and share your thoughts in the comments below.
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My opinion on Star Wars: The Old Republic has evolved in the time I’ve been covering the game. I went from sky-high excitement when the project was announced, to completely bummed out for a variety of reasons (take your pick: space combat, purely humanoid races, no appearance tab, etc), to pretty excited (with tempered expectations). However, there’s one shortcoming of the game that’s peeved me for a good while now, but hasn’t really gotten much play in our weekly column: weapon restrictions.
Read more of Michael Bitton's Star Wars: The Old Republic: Do Weapon Restrictions Bug You?
Comments
It doesn't bother me at all. I can see it being a limiting issue, and only for a few select classes, but since the game is built with story emphasis, and each class is unique in this, if you want a sniper, play the IA. If you want a giant cannon play trooper. And so on. Most of the time, in my MMORPGs, I tend to use only one weapon per class anyway. Like casters. I just prefer staves for my casters even though they can usually use offhands with daggers/swords. I just like Staves when casting.
With my warriors, it's Great Axes or one handed axes. For paladin types, sword and board or great swords. See my pattern here? I just don't see a need to use various weapon types. Same issue with races. I don't mind that every race can't be every class. It just doesnt' bother me at all. I'm more about the story, looking cool and playing the game then how my character looks. Weapon choice is a part of that, it just isn't that important to me.
I like it, it doesn't bother me in the least. Keep in mind that while TOR will have a LOT of places to explore, the focus is on a guided story experience, like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I like that certain weapons are restriced to certain classes, the same way certain lightsaber colors have restrictions. I know it's cliche, but I like the easily identifiable icons, bad guys in black / good guys in white, that sort of thing. The weapon limitations add to this icon recognition IMO.
Most of the games I've played didn't necesarily had weapons limitations per class.. But classes had bonus while using a particular type of weapon.. Which I usually end up with anyway...
I think it's a good move, balance wise, and hope they'll stick to it post-launch...
I understand the concerns of the author but I can't say that I share them. I don't think that I should have unlimited access to create a super awesome character that can do anything. Take for example classic RPGs (the non-MMO variety), where classes are limited to specific weapons. Even with games like AoC limited the weapons you could use.
There are quite a few reasons for this, some of which include just having to make the animations for EVERY possible character type for EVERY single weapon. There are only so many ways to hold a rifle or a pistol before people begin complaining that all the classes are cookie cutter. Some bounty hunters used lightsabers, can you imagine the uproar if you had bounty hunters running around with lightsabers in this game?
I think your argument closely resembles the GW2 all characters are healers argument. I get that you want personalization but you're looking for straight up design your own stuff whereas it seems like ToR says design your own within the limitations we place. To let characters just grab a rocket launcher and be able to use them breaks my immersion much in the same way not allowing them to do so breaks yours.
For better or worse, it is the way it is.
If a MMORPG is more of a virtual world, where the players make the story, then weapons restrictions don't make much sense.
But this is a story driven game which the players largely follow the path the developers have chosen for them, so sticking with the weapons they want us to use makes sense in this situation.
Even in the open world, I'm sure a character using two pistols will largely be able to deal out the same amout of damage as a heavy carbine or light saber user, so it probably doesn't matter in the long run.
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While I'd appreciate a little more variation in the choise of weaponry, it doesn't really bother me.
Slacker extraordinaire!
The number of restirctions contained in SWTOR bug me, from classes restricted by both faction and species to weapons restrictions, I hate being forced to play in so many boxes that the game feels like nesting dolls.
Maybe I am just in a bad mood currently but I can't stand those "I don't like/want restrictions" attitude anymore.
Personally, I don't want to see ogres whcih are dumb as hell play wizzards. I don't want to see tiny gnome tanks. I don't want to see bounty hunters using heavy weapons, because then they are not bounty hunters but troopers. I don't want every class to be able to heal/dmg equally. At least not in a class based themepark game with no skill points. As long as the restrictions fit to the game lore I am all for it.
For me those restrictions lead to options and choices which lead to diversity in the world.
If you don't like restrictions play one of those skill based sandbox games where everyone can be anything and use everything. Which usually ends in very few cookie cutter templates which everyone plays.
If you don't like restriction go the complete way and drop the whole class concept.
Don't get me wrong, it's fine for me if you don't want a game with restrictions. But please, don't try to transform a game that has restrictions into one without them. Just look around and choose a game that has no restrictions.
Long rant short:
Do weapon restriction bug me ? Definately NO ! Quite the contrary.
Hmm that guy must have missed Empire Strikesw Back where Boba Fett shoots at Luke (with his carbine) while transporting Han to Slave 1...but I digress...
This issue is part of a larger issue that bothers me about many of the design elements in Old Republic, which I call the "Father knows best" syndrome. They KNOW that we all want to fulfill our Boba Feett fantasy, or our Luke Skywalker fantasy, or our *insert Iconic character* here. We may say that we want to create a unique bounty hunter, but in the end, we REALLY just want to be Boba Fett. We are silly children, and father knows best.
We don't REALLY want to fly around space zones and explore them. There is no space exploration in the movies silly! It's all pew pew pew! A rail shooter won't hurt your experience. You also REALLY don't want an apperance system, because you want to REALLY look like an iconic Jedi when you level, or a Trooper, or whatever.
That was one of the things that I hated abnout the NGE, because we started getting told what we ACTUALLY wanted. And I see a lot of that here in TOR. And it really dampens my enthuiasm.
So weapon restrictions themselves do not tend to bother me in games a whole lot just because I am very used to it. But when it becomes part of this larger problem of being told that "father knows best" it drives me completly bonkers. There is just too much of that in TOR. Will it be a fun game? Probably, I am looking forward to playing it. I think that it will bea good game. But without granting players flexiability and the ability to be creative will it be a great game? I guess we shall see.
The issue that I think the BioWare devs were trying to resolve was NOT actually with having to make 'more' animations, but with trying to make each class 'differ' in their appearance and animations. Each class has a unique silouhette, even going to far as to make the Sage hold their single saber in an entirely different way than the Guardian. The point is so that at a single glance you'll know what type of enemy you're facing, and how they're likely to attack you. If you see a man with a sniper rifle, you'll know you're up against an Imperial Agent, Sniper specialized, and you'll know how to respond to that. If anything from a Smuggler to a Bounty Hunter could wield sniper rifles, you'd have to actually get a good look at the armor, or mouse over the enemy in order to get that, and it certainly wouldn't help the classes feel different and unique.
Heck, they even traded the weapons of the non-Jedi classes; instead of having both Troopers and Bounty Hunters use rifles and assault cannons, they made Trooper and Agent share rifle, with the 'special' rifle being different for both. Instead of Smuggler and Agent both using pistols, they traded that off for Smuggler and BH using the pistols. It's just another way to make the classes feel distinct and seperate from one another; like having Paladin and Shaman be restricted, instead of available to both sides.
And yes, I realize the Jedi and Sith is where this falls apart; the classes and advance classes all share the same weapons and what not. But their ideologies set them apart already, even a Light Side Sith is going to look at things different than any sort of Jedi, and a Dark Side Jedi isn't going to be thinking the same way as any sort of Sith. What really differentiates a Bounty Hunter and a Trooper that's willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done, besides who they work for? Not much.
Well, until technology gives us better tools for interfacing, what would you suggest? Hell yeah, I'd love to see headbands where we can just think our commands, but until then I'm stuck with a keyboard or controller.
Would you prefer to play a Sith aligned with the Republic? Too bad, not gonna happen. For reasons I stated above, they're keeping classes seperate across factions, even when it comes to Troopers and Agents, which could easily be represented on both sides. Heck, both sides HAVE them. They're just not playable for one side or the other. Bounty Hunters and Smugglers, on the other hand, DO have a pretty damn good reason for working for one side or another; the Sith are paying the BHs more, and the Smugglers don't want to have to deal with smuggling shit under a strict Imperial regime. Besides from the weapons, story and animations, the classes are already pretty damn close to carbon copies of one another. Sure, Gunslinger is going to play a little different from Sniper, but the class roles are identical, and I'm willing to bet the mechanics are as well.
I think in many ways you hit the nail on the head and I think Bioware inherited this attitude from Lucas (Arts). I mean everything Lucas has done since Return of the Jedi, has been heavy handed and trying to kill SW for anyone who differs from his personal vision. SWTOR feels a bit like this to me, rather than giving me the chance to live out a SW fantasy life, it gives me the chance to follow someone else's fantasy life, the two might overlap in some spots and I might be able to make superficial choices, but in the end the limitations on my character are tremendous.
I understand why, but it still bothers me that class-balancing restrictions are built into so many games. Mages don't wear heavy armor and wield two-handers because they'd be too encumbered to cast spells. One needs Force Training to wield a lightsaber effectively, that's why only Jedi use them.
Nailguns are awesome but I still carry a hammer. It's about choices for me. As a mage, I may want to don heavy armor and swing a two hander and basiclly gimp myself. As trooper, I may want to try out a light saber and really hurt myself.
Choices add depth.
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Well, it IS his own personal vision. He has the right to make canon whatever he wants it to be. But I think you're overreacting, Lucas has been more than welcoming to the expanded universe crowd, even going so far as to use elements from that canon in the movies. Coruscant was a name invented by Timothy Zahn.
But really. If he wants to tell us, for example, the Yuuzahn Vong war was all a dream, well... that's how the cookie crumbles. You might disagree, but in Star Wars lore, Lucas is king, God, and all those other things.
They do, but gameplay and mechanics trump realism, depth and lore every time. If a mage CAN wear heavy armor, most likely someone out there will gimp themselves unintentionally by using that, not understanding it hurts their character more than it helps. As for wielding a lightsaber and hurting yourself, that's a rather silly thing for them to code in game, tbh, and essentially a waste of resources.
But out of combat, that IS what RP is for. If you want to have a lightsaber, nobody's going to stop you. They might bitch about it, but really, it's not extremely deviant from the lore.
Meh, thats jut another nail in the coffin o World of Republicraft
And to think that ~7 years ago I was so stoked about the KOTOR franchise, Bioware and the third part of KOTOR...
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Because KOTOR wasn't just as limiting, or more, right? Jedi couldn't wear heavy armor without losing access to all their force powers, if you chose to go dual-wield or saber-staff you lost feat points that could be put to better use elsewhere, just to get your hit back up to anywhere NEAR respectable levels.
Sure, you were able to customize your character, but when you came down to it, your feats narrowed you down into using one style of weapon. What's being asked here is the ability to use ANY style of weapon, just as easily as the next? Not exactly sticking to the vision of KOTOR, is it.
The moment he started selling it off for profit by letting others play in "his" universe by authoring books, comics, video games he gave up the right to call it his "personal" vision. Look at the way he threw Salvatore under the bus, he told him that he had to kill of Chewbacca, but let him take the heat from the fans. Or how he retconed nearly everything Karen Traviss invested in the Mandalorians.
What does this have to do with SWTOR though, the problem is an MMORPG game world is supposed to offer you a chance to "live" in a world that you want to "live" in. These games originated off of the DnD model, pen and paper RPGs have always been about a give and take between the DM and the player in telling their mutual stories. In the case of MMO's the DM is the Dev and in the case of SWTOR there is too much take from the Devs and not enough give to make it anything but their own stories.
Doesn't really bug me, it makes more sense than everybody being able to use everything. How many smugglers used big encumbering weapons? Smugglers wore lightweight things, not anything heavy.
Because the shit Karen Traviss did with the Mandalorians wasn't total horse leavings, right. Jedi killers who had the ability not to be seen in the Force, who made a war hero Jaina Solo break down and cry. Except they only wanted to have peace! The evil, evil Jedi and Sith FORCED them to fight! Enough said on that.
It's his IP, his franchise. He owns the world, he can do whatever he wants with it, no different than Middle-Earth Enterprises can do whatever they want with the Lord of the Rings franchise.
As for SWTOR, are the DMs doing anything more limiting than what they've done in any other theme park MMO? Even in the more sandbox ones like Fallen Earth. A character build was designed for one style of weapon, just like it would be in a pen and paper RPG like Dungeons and Dragons. Your great-sword wielding Paladin with feats in weapon proficiency and weapon mastery (greatsword), and a +3 Flaming Greatsword of Dragonslaying wouldn't just suddenly switch to dual wielding daggers.
If you want your own personal story, I suggest you stick to RP, because MMORPGs, story wise, are far more closely descended to movies and traditional video games than PnP RPGs. For them to tell THEIR overarching, world story, they do have to limit you some. Just as you were limited in Baldur's Gate and similar games.
Yeah, this.
The weapons in TOR make sense. A Jedi or Sith is going to rely on their saber and their Force powers. A smuggler/bounty hunter is going to use lightweight armor and guns because the whole point of their jobs is flexibility and being as mobile as possible. A trooper is going to use a Big F%^king Gun because he's a big heavy bruiser type.
I don't care much about the restrictions. They make sense because they fit the particular classes and what they would actually use.
What MMO's have you played? The story is not heavy handed in MMO's in fact most of them only give you the NPC's take on the situation leaving the player the ability to fill in the blanks.
Baldur's Gate and KOTOR are not MMO's they have a completely different heritage that goes back to the first computer adventure games and use the term RPG to denote a mechanic of leveling.