The answer would depend on my reasons for stopping playing in the first place. A wipe might make the game more attractive, or might have nothing to do with my reasons for leaving...
In DF's case I think a wipe is a good idea. It's a game based on territorial conquest. Rehashing the same old fights for years get's kind of boring. IMHO Darkfall was at it's best when the population was sky high and you had the massive wars between Hyperion, CotC, Dawn, Dusk, Cairn and Death....
Anything that could bring that feeling back should be welcomed by players old and new...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It would take more than a character wipe to get me back into a game like DF or EVE. The failure of their progression systems is only a smaller part of their failure as a whole. Ultra-repetitive activities and zerg-centric gameplay are the primary failures, I'd say.
I want to play a beautiful sci-fi MMO about building a space empire, and one about building a medieval empire. I just don't want to deal with bullshit game mechanics. (And this is why I think "sandbox" style games aren't necessarily destined for failure, as long as they can pry off the leeching game mechanics which cause them to go from "Wow, that'd be fun!" to "Ugh, this is terrible -- all the other players can ruin my good time and the core activities are bland as hell!")
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Anything that could bring that feeling back should be welcomed by players old and new...
Agreed that anything that could bring back the fun should be welcomed by everyone. However, will a wipe bring the fun for sure? If so, then is a wipe the best way to bring this about (meaning there are no better alternatives)?
I can't imagine that the answer to the second question is "yes," but maybe it is.
If the game needs such serious improvement, then obvious the game has a lot of problems. Will this "solution" not create a problem that is equally problematic?
I don't know about Darkfall but with Eve you can be very pvp competative within 3 months with fitted frigs/cruiser/blackops ships. During the first 3 months there is a lot of learning about the game (learning skills have been takin out) and highsec missioning, getting a feel for the game etc. Joining a corp for zero sec/blackholes is the best thing you can do for yourself afterward.
I know the same can be said for UO even though you might not have all the server rares, Big Castle home, arties etc that vets have. Also pvp, unless on one server, is optional as they're two facets (pve, pvp).
Don't have to worry about games that are level based that release xpacs as the top end gear from the previous xpac becomes irrelavent. Therefore everyone is pretty much on the same playing field day 1 of new xpacs (add 3 months to end game, maybe less to level toon if your not a vet).
Some NWN servers used to do this, and without fail not a single one that did a character wipe lasted over a year in the state it was. Either the owners changed, the server changed to a new audience or it died. The fact is people invest a lot of TIME and MONEY into their characters (Time playing and money for subscriptions). Its one thing to tweak a skill or item, that annoys people enough but to destroy all the work people put into a character. All the time, and not to mention the decimation done to a community.
It is a retarded idea, I dont play Darkfall, never wanted to, but there are ALWAYS better solutions than a vault wipe. I am amazed the Darkfall Devs are seeing fit to punish the players for the mistakes the developement team made.
If the players and community of this game allow this to pass without a mass cancellation of subscriptions then you have only your selves to blame when it happens again the next time they feel they need to "level the playing field"
I would gladly return. Having the ability to start fresh on an old game with new players around me is extremely exciting.
However, this is also the exact reason why having multiple game servers as opposed to one is clearly a superior strategy in the long run.
I understand the appeal of playing online in a world with no server selection, that is, like EVE, like Darkfall, but eventually this is exactly the kind of problem you run into.
Other MMOs, if they are popular enough can easily just launch a brand new server and not allow character transfers. That happened about a year or so after I started playing WoW, and the chance to start all over with a bunch of other players was extremely exciting.
Another example is Project1999, which is an EverQuest Emulator, it launched about 2 years ago, and even though it was EQ Classic only, it felt extremely refreshing to start on a new game server, with new people in an old game. It also felt very nostalgic and satisfying, even if the grind is incredibly evil!
What EVE ought to consider is just caving into server idea and launching a new server instead. That way anyone who wants to start fresh, or new players that come can go there, and those that want to stay in the old server and not want to rebuild their characters can stay.
Otherwise you are going to eventually run into a situation where a vast majority of your players are now at the end-game stage and most of the low to mid levels of the world are utterly devoid of players.
It would take more than a character wipe to get me back into a game like DF or EVE. The failure of their progression systems is only a smaller part of their failure as a whole. Ultra-repetitive activities and zerg-centric gameplay are the primary failures, I'd say.
I want to play a beautiful sci-fi MMO about building a space empire, and one about building a medieval empire. I just don't want to deal with bullshit game mechanics. (And this is why I think "sandbox" style games aren't necessarily destined for failure, as long as they can pry off the leeching game mechanics which cause them to go from "Wow, that'd be fun!" to "Ugh, this is terrible -- all the other players can ruin my good time and the core activities are bland as hell!")
> Ultra-repetitive activities.
> Instanced arenas, instanced arenas everywhere.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Uh, that depends, how good is the game? I can forgive the devs a lot, if the game is fun to play.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If the devs messed up so royally that they need to wipe the entire server just to make the game enjoyable, then it's time to make a new game. There's no point in "rebooting" the game when all that's going to do is piss off the people that actually enjoy your game that you (the dev) must consider to be a failure if you think it needs something as drastic as a reboot. A complete server wipe seems like it would be the last move of a desperate dev.
Either make a new server, or just develop and release a new game.
This isn't so different from an "alternate rules" server. If the benefits of the changes improve the game from an end-user perspective (enhancements to the actual game and not just data clean-up), it makes complete sense to me. If it was a game I enjoyed, there is often a degree of fun in starting fresh along with everyone else (especially in an older game where the "newbie" areas start to become sparse in population.
Find it a bit troubling you choose to put darkfall and eve in the same pool.
Darkfall is broken, has been from day one with the exploits allowing unlimted skilling.
Eve, a new 3 week player can compete vs a 3 year vet.
I fail to see how one = the other.
For darkfall if it wiped? It'd be worth playing(I'd to try it then)
For eve? No. HELL no, the current 'game' as it is, is due to the time many have spent making whats there.
Darkfall is full of cheaters who were never punished, and who make it impossible for 'new' players to ever get a good hold in the game. Even has (Besides 1 example of a gm being part of a guild) always been fair and balanced with cheaters punished when caught.
For the question(Your silly examples aside) it really depends on the game and the company.
It depends on how much time I spent playing the game in the first place and whether or not the company screwed a bunch of players (regardless of whether I played the game) just to get more money. Pretty sure I'd have to say no. I will always stick to my principles, even if it means missing out on a good game.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Sure but a somewhat less heavy handed method of doing this would be to keep the old worlds running without any updates except to merge servers every once in a while, and at the same time releasing a new expansion that changes what elements of the old game they want changed etc and open new servers that accept people from the new expansion and everyone therein has to start from level 1.
The smart people would jump at the release of the experiment. Some holder-onners would jump later. There might even be a few servers running the old game years later which is simply added profit.
So in essence if you say wanted to re-release everquest with a new beginning area but without 90% of the zones that arent used and with new zones that would be used etc. You could set up the new servers and if you wanted the expansion you have to start there.
I would look at it as an opportunity to rejoin any one of several old games I used to play (IE warhammer, everquest, asheron's call, aion, etc).
It would take more than a character wipe to get me back into a game like DF or EVE. The failure of their progression systems is only a smaller part of their failure as a whole. Ultra-repetitive activities and zerg-centric gameplay are the primary failures, I'd say.
I want to play a beautiful sci-fi MMO about building a space empire, and one about building a medieval empire. I just don't want to deal with bullshit game mechanics. (And this is why I think "sandbox" style games aren't necessarily destined for failure, as long as they can pry off the leeching game mechanics which cause them to go from "Wow, that'd be fun!" to "Ugh, this is terrible -- all the other players can ruin my good time and the core activities are bland as hell!")
> Ultra-repetitive activities.
> Instanced arenas, instanced arenas everywhere.
If you have a point, make it. To advance in DF or EVE means engaging with activities considerably less varied (ie considerably more repetitive) than in a good themepark game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It doesn't sound too different than what happens in most level capped games when they have an expansion and raise the level cap. All that end game raid gear that you worked for is now replaced by solo quested gear of the new tier and everyone is rebuilding their characters again. Combat art and spell mechanics may have been changed and new armor effects are added, so things have to be relearned. It's an expected part of the game and I always looked forward to a new expac as a type of reset.
In the long run the players that were on top at the end of the last expac end up on top in the new expac too, but the gap between them and the newer players is lessened for a time. That type of change can be good for a game, and in a game without levels they should have some sort of mechanism to reduce the gap every few years or you end up with two separate games being played.
Yes I would and I will when DarkFall 2.0 hits. i have a 1.5 yr old character with almost all base stats to 100 with quickness at 105 and will gladly re-roll if they do a full wipe.
I do not think they are looking at character wipes but just gear as they are working on getting rid of the hybrid playstyle and make gear more diverse instead of everyone in bone with full plate fillers and encumberence bonus and just shoot knockups and rays till your dead. More on the line if you want to be a mage you may only be able to wear robes.
In doing this they do not have to wipe stats as even though someone may have every spell to 100 and melee masteries to 100 the gear will limit them to hat they use.
It would take more than a character wipe to get me back into a game like DF or EVE. The failure of their progression systems is only a smaller part of their failure as a whole. Ultra-repetitive activities and zerg-centric gameplay are the primary failures, I'd say.
I want to play a beautiful sci-fi MMO about building a space empire, and one about building a medieval empire. I just don't want to deal with bullshit game mechanics. (And this is why I think "sandbox" style games aren't necessarily destined for failure, as long as they can pry off the leeching game mechanics which cause them to go from "Wow, that'd be fun!" to "Ugh, this is terrible -- all the other players can ruin my good time and the core activities are bland as hell!")
> Ultra-repetitive activities.
> Instanced arenas, instanced arenas everywhere.
If you have a point, make it. To advance in DF or EVE means engaging with activities considerably less varied (ie considerably more repetitive) than in a good themepark game.
I would have thought the point was obvious.
Oh and yes, if you look at advancement in the sense of pure stat progression, the likes of EVE and other sandbox games will often seem more repetitive than in a good themepark. But then simple stat advancement is a minor cog in the advancement possibilities people have open to them in a sandbox. Whereas in a themepark, stat advancement is the be all and end all.
Also it is somewhat strange that you are crying out for empire forging games when you spend 99% of your time on these boards bashing open pvp and proclaiming the benefits of instanced arenas.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
It really depends on the game. I started a new character on the day AoC's new server launched even though i have loads of 80's on other servers, PvP can be more fun during the teething stages before everyone gets 'maxed out'. Another game that i would consider doing it with is City of Heroes, i have so many characters there and always start new ones every time i go back so i wouldn't find it a problem, leveling with people was a large part of the enjoyment in that game.
So yes, but again it really would depend on the game. Darkfail i wouldn't do it but that's because i don't find it a worthwhile game to invest my time in full stop.
Longer answer- the keyword is 'return', meaning I probably left the game for some reason (or many.) If such sweeping changes are made to the game that the only way to implement them is to start over, I would probably be inclined to give it a second look in hopes the chages were made for the better.
The OP is not very clear on what is actually happening.
First of all to even relate EVE Online and Darkfall is a joke. Darkfall you gain skills by using them... not training them over time ike in EVE.
Second of all Darkfall is a sandbox MMO where level grind isn't the main focus but rather the game is about player interaction and clan warfare.
Why AV is considering a wipe is the following
- Rampant bug exploitation since launch
- No "vet" (Including myself) has earned their skills honestly
- The huge influx of new players would not last long VS the current vets
- In DF 2.0 the grind is said to be a lot easier / faster
- Everyone would be starting over fresh like it was a NEW GAME
------------------------------------------
The people against a wipe are those players that cheated to get where they are and don't want to give up their powerful characters or personal fortunes. Some people just don't have any real skill and need to rely on their character carrying them through.
Looking around the web you'll notice a much larger group of people SUPPORTING the idea of a wipe... remember Darkfall is not like a standard MMO... so wiping isn't all that bad if you have the right mentality. I don't care how much time you spent bugging out mobs and cheating in the current DF 1.0 because that time doesn't count for shit.
For me it would depend on the game model. For example if Aion were to initiate a wipe would they give the players free game time equal to what they spent on subscription? If they just wiped without any compensation i think it would kill any subscription based game. Of course there would be morons with nothing better to do then waste thier time rebuilding, but the majority of community would move on. If it were a F2P Cash Shop game there is no way ppl would put out all that money again because the imbalances are based on exactly that.. cash shop. The only way I could see this being a practical answer would be with a truley F2P game. A good example is League of Legends while they could give you all your skins back and not many ppl would feel betrayed. The only purpose ti would serve would be to wipe rankings and negative score's based on server problems. The ponly thing players would have to do is get 30 again. I cant think of any MMORPG that is actually F2P with no cash shop advantage, that's why i refer to LoL. In conclusion, Subscription model would fail without compensation, Cash SHhop model would lose players who are the life and blood of thier game. I believe it can only be contemplated in a truley F2P game.
Oh and yes, if you look at advancement in the sense of pure stat progression, the likes of EVE and other sandbox games will often seem more repetitive than in a good themepark. But then simple stat advancement is a minor cog in the advancement possibilities people have open to them in a sandbox. Whereas in a themepark, stat advancement is the be all and end all.
Also it is somewhat strange that you are crying out for empire forging games when you spend 99% of your time on these boards bashing open pvp and proclaiming the benefits of instanced arenas.
And the majority of those non-game-advancement activities exist in themeparks too.
Empire forging is fun. Zerg PVP isn't. Not sure why you feel the two are instrinsically linked (or why empire forging would even involve PVP). Perhaps Sim City is before your time?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Oh and yes, if you look at advancement in the sense of pure stat progression, the likes of EVE and other sandbox games will often seem more repetitive than in a good themepark. But then simple stat advancement is a minor cog in the advancement possibilities people have open to them in a sandbox. Whereas in a themepark, stat advancement is the be all and end all.
Also it is somewhat strange that you are crying out for empire forging games when you spend 99% of your time on these boards bashing open pvp and proclaiming the benefits of instanced arenas.
And the majority of those non-game-advancement activities exist in themeparks too.
Empire forging is fun. Zerg PVP isn't. Not sure why you feel the two are instrinsically linked (or why empire forging would even involve PVP). Perhaps Sim City is before your time?
Sim City the massively multiplayer mmo? Yeah it must have been before my time as it passed me by...
In mmos, empire forging and open world conflict do indeed go hand in hand because there is a large number of players within a finite amount of space trying to control the same area/resources. Moreover the open conflict dynamic adds another layer of depth to such empire building. But then, you wont see that as you can't see past the zerg right...
And no, the majority of those non stat, game changing advancements do not exist in themeparks at all. Or are you saying Rift for example has the sociopolitical complexities and finer 'advancement' workings of EVE?
I don't know why I bothered responding in all honesty. You cleary miss the entire point of open world games and the nuances of open world conflict.
Yep it's all just about teh zerg and all pvp should always be 'fair'. We should all line up in a queue waiting to pvp in the same place, against the same people in exactly the same numbers over and over again. PvP is all about the combat in and of it's self, pre fight organization, logistics, politics and dynamic tactics are all a waste of time. Cool.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Comments
The answer would depend on my reasons for stopping playing in the first place. A wipe might make the game more attractive, or might have nothing to do with my reasons for leaving...
In DF's case I think a wipe is a good idea. It's a game based on territorial conquest. Rehashing the same old fights for years get's kind of boring. IMHO Darkfall was at it's best when the population was sky high and you had the massive wars between Hyperion, CotC, Dawn, Dusk, Cairn and Death....
Anything that could bring that feeling back should be welcomed by players old and new...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It would take more than a character wipe to get me back into a game like DF or EVE. The failure of their progression systems is only a smaller part of their failure as a whole. Ultra-repetitive activities and zerg-centric gameplay are the primary failures, I'd say.
I want to play a beautiful sci-fi MMO about building a space empire, and one about building a medieval empire. I just don't want to deal with bullshit game mechanics. (And this is why I think "sandbox" style games aren't necessarily destined for failure, as long as they can pry off the leeching game mechanics which cause them to go from "Wow, that'd be fun!" to "Ugh, this is terrible -- all the other players can ruin my good time and the core activities are bland as hell!")
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'd have to say if players want a new, version 2 then it should be on a fresh server and give people the option on which one they'd prefer to stay.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Agreed that anything that could bring back the fun should be welcomed by everyone. However, will a wipe bring the fun for sure? If so, then is a wipe the best way to bring this about (meaning there are no better alternatives)?
I can't imagine that the answer to the second question is "yes," but maybe it is.
If the game needs such serious improvement, then obvious the game has a lot of problems. Will this "solution" not create a problem that is equally problematic?
I don't know about Darkfall but with Eve you can be very pvp competative within 3 months with fitted frigs/cruiser/blackops ships. During the first 3 months there is a lot of learning about the game (learning skills have been takin out) and highsec missioning, getting a feel for the game etc. Joining a corp for zero sec/blackholes is the best thing you can do for yourself afterward.
I know the same can be said for UO even though you might not have all the server rares, Big Castle home, arties etc that vets have. Also pvp, unless on one server, is optional as they're two facets (pve, pvp).
Don't have to worry about games that are level based that release xpacs as the top end gear from the previous xpac becomes irrelavent. Therefore everyone is pretty much on the same playing field day 1 of new xpacs (add 3 months to end game, maybe less to level toon if your not a vet).
So I voted no.
Some NWN servers used to do this, and without fail not a single one that did a character wipe lasted over a year in the state it was. Either the owners changed, the server changed to a new audience or it died. The fact is people invest a lot of TIME and MONEY into their characters (Time playing and money for subscriptions). Its one thing to tweak a skill or item, that annoys people enough but to destroy all the work people put into a character. All the time, and not to mention the decimation done to a community.
It is a retarded idea, I dont play Darkfall, never wanted to, but there are ALWAYS better solutions than a vault wipe. I am amazed the Darkfall Devs are seeing fit to punish the players for the mistakes the developement team made.
If the players and community of this game allow this to pass without a mass cancellation of subscriptions then you have only your selves to blame when it happens again the next time they feel they need to "level the playing field"
I would gladly return. Having the ability to start fresh on an old game with new players around me is extremely exciting.
However, this is also the exact reason why having multiple game servers as opposed to one is clearly a superior strategy in the long run.
I understand the appeal of playing online in a world with no server selection, that is, like EVE, like Darkfall, but eventually this is exactly the kind of problem you run into.
Other MMOs, if they are popular enough can easily just launch a brand new server and not allow character transfers. That happened about a year or so after I started playing WoW, and the chance to start all over with a bunch of other players was extremely exciting.
Another example is Project1999, which is an EverQuest Emulator, it launched about 2 years ago, and even though it was EQ Classic only, it felt extremely refreshing to start on a new game server, with new people in an old game. It also felt very nostalgic and satisfying, even if the grind is incredibly evil!
What EVE ought to consider is just caving into server idea and launching a new server instead. That way anyone who wants to start fresh, or new players that come can go there, and those that want to stay in the old server and not want to rebuild their characters can stay.
Otherwise you are going to eventually run into a situation where a vast majority of your players are now at the end-game stage and most of the low to mid levels of the world are utterly devoid of players.
> Ultra-repetitive activities.
> Instanced arenas, instanced arenas everywhere.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
"Would you return to a game that after 2 years wiped all characters to "correct past mistakes"?"
Uh, that depends, how good is the game? I can forgive the devs a lot, if the game is fun to play.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If the devs messed up so royally that they need to wipe the entire server just to make the game enjoyable, then it's time to make a new game. There's no point in "rebooting" the game when all that's going to do is piss off the people that actually enjoy your game that you (the dev) must consider to be a failure if you think it needs something as drastic as a reboot. A complete server wipe seems like it would be the last move of a desperate dev.
Either make a new server, or just develop and release a new game.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
This isn't so different from an "alternate rules" server. If the benefits of the changes improve the game from an end-user perspective (enhancements to the actual game and not just data clean-up), it makes complete sense to me. If it was a game I enjoyed, there is often a degree of fun in starting fresh along with everyone else (especially in an older game where the "newbie" areas start to become sparse in population.
Find it a bit troubling you choose to put darkfall and eve in the same pool.
Darkfall is broken, has been from day one with the exploits allowing unlimted skilling.
Eve, a new 3 week player can compete vs a 3 year vet.
I fail to see how one = the other.
For darkfall if it wiped? It'd be worth playing(I'd to try it then)
For eve? No. HELL no, the current 'game' as it is, is due to the time many have spent making whats there.
Darkfall is full of cheaters who were never punished, and who make it impossible for 'new' players to ever get a good hold in the game. Even has (Besides 1 example of a gm being part of a guild) always been fair and balanced with cheaters punished when caught.
For the question(Your silly examples aside) it really depends on the game and the company.
It depends on how much time I spent playing the game in the first place and whether or not the company screwed a bunch of players (regardless of whether I played the game) just to get more money. Pretty sure I'd have to say no. I will always stick to my principles, even if it means missing out on a good game.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Sure but a somewhat less heavy handed method of doing this would be to keep the old worlds running without any updates except to merge servers every once in a while, and at the same time releasing a new expansion that changes what elements of the old game they want changed etc and open new servers that accept people from the new expansion and everyone therein has to start from level 1.
The smart people would jump at the release of the experiment. Some holder-onners would jump later. There might even be a few servers running the old game years later which is simply added profit.
So in essence if you say wanted to re-release everquest with a new beginning area but without 90% of the zones that arent used and with new zones that would be used etc. You could set up the new servers and if you wanted the expansion you have to start there.
I would look at it as an opportunity to rejoin any one of several old games I used to play (IE warhammer, everquest, asheron's call, aion, etc).
I would give Darkfall another try if they wiped it all clean and somehow made sure that absolutely nobody can bot anymore.
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius
If you have a point, make it. To advance in DF or EVE means engaging with activities considerably less varied (ie considerably more repetitive) than in a good themepark game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It doesn't sound too different than what happens in most level capped games when they have an expansion and raise the level cap. All that end game raid gear that you worked for is now replaced by solo quested gear of the new tier and everyone is rebuilding their characters again. Combat art and spell mechanics may have been changed and new armor effects are added, so things have to be relearned. It's an expected part of the game and I always looked forward to a new expac as a type of reset.
In the long run the players that were on top at the end of the last expac end up on top in the new expac too, but the gap between them and the newer players is lessened for a time. That type of change can be good for a game, and in a game without levels they should have some sort of mechanism to reduce the gap every few years or you end up with two separate games being played.
Yes I would and I will when DarkFall 2.0 hits. i have a 1.5 yr old character with almost all base stats to 100 with quickness at 105 and will gladly re-roll if they do a full wipe.
I do not think they are looking at character wipes but just gear as they are working on getting rid of the hybrid playstyle and make gear more diverse instead of everyone in bone with full plate fillers and encumberence bonus and just shoot knockups and rays till your dead. More on the line if you want to be a mage you may only be able to wear robes.
In doing this they do not have to wipe stats as even though someone may have every spell to 100 and melee masteries to 100 the gear will limit them to hat they use.
I would have thought the point was obvious.
Oh and yes, if you look at advancement in the sense of pure stat progression, the likes of EVE and other sandbox games will often seem more repetitive than in a good themepark. But then simple stat advancement is a minor cog in the advancement possibilities people have open to them in a sandbox. Whereas in a themepark, stat advancement is the be all and end all.
Also it is somewhat strange that you are crying out for empire forging games when you spend 99% of your time on these boards bashing open pvp and proclaiming the benefits of instanced arenas.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
It really depends on the game. I started a new character on the day AoC's new server launched even though i have loads of 80's on other servers, PvP can be more fun during the teething stages before everyone gets 'maxed out'. Another game that i would consider doing it with is City of Heroes, i have so many characters there and always start new ones every time i go back so i wouldn't find it a problem, leveling with people was a large part of the enjoyment in that game.
So yes, but again it really would depend on the game. Darkfail i wouldn't do it but that's because i don't find it a worthwhile game to invest my time in full stop.
Short answer- yes.
Longer answer- the keyword is 'return', meaning I probably left the game for some reason (or many.) If such sweeping changes are made to the game that the only way to implement them is to start over, I would probably be inclined to give it a second look in hopes the chages were made for the better.
The OP is not very clear on what is actually happening.
First of all to even relate EVE Online and Darkfall is a joke. Darkfall you gain skills by using them... not training them over time ike in EVE.
Second of all Darkfall is a sandbox MMO where level grind isn't the main focus but rather the game is about player interaction and clan warfare.
Why AV is considering a wipe is the following
- Rampant bug exploitation since launch
- No "vet" (Including myself) has earned their skills honestly
- The huge influx of new players would not last long VS the current vets
- In DF 2.0 the grind is said to be a lot easier / faster
- Everyone would be starting over fresh like it was a NEW GAME
------------------------------------------
The people against a wipe are those players that cheated to get where they are and don't want to give up their powerful characters or personal fortunes. Some people just don't have any real skill and need to rely on their character carrying them through.
Looking around the web you'll notice a much larger group of people SUPPORTING the idea of a wipe... remember Darkfall is not like a standard MMO... so wiping isn't all that bad if you have the right mentality. I don't care how much time you spent bugging out mobs and cheating in the current DF 1.0 because that time doesn't count for shit.
AV will do what is best for their game. Period.
Full Sail University - Game Design
For me it would depend on the game model. For example if Aion were to initiate a wipe would they give the players free game time equal to what they spent on subscription? If they just wiped without any compensation i think it would kill any subscription based game. Of course there would be morons with nothing better to do then waste thier time rebuilding, but the majority of community would move on. If it were a F2P Cash Shop game there is no way ppl would put out all that money again because the imbalances are based on exactly that.. cash shop. The only way I could see this being a practical answer would be with a truley F2P game. A good example is League of Legends while they could give you all your skins back and not many ppl would feel betrayed. The only purpose ti would serve would be to wipe rankings and negative score's based on server problems. The ponly thing players would have to do is get 30 again. I cant think of any MMORPG that is actually F2P with no cash shop advantage, that's why i refer to LoL. In conclusion, Subscription model would fail without compensation, Cash SHhop model would lose players who are the life and blood of thier game. I believe it can only be contemplated in a truley F2P game.
And the majority of those non-game-advancement activities exist in themeparks too.
Empire forging is fun. Zerg PVP isn't. Not sure why you feel the two are instrinsically linked (or why empire forging would even involve PVP). Perhaps Sim City is before your time?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Sim City the massively multiplayer mmo? Yeah it must have been before my time as it passed me by...
In mmos, empire forging and open world conflict do indeed go hand in hand because there is a large number of players within a finite amount of space trying to control the same area/resources. Moreover the open conflict dynamic adds another layer of depth to such empire building. But then, you wont see that as you can't see past the zerg right...
And no, the majority of those non stat, game changing advancements do not exist in themeparks at all. Or are you saying Rift for example has the sociopolitical complexities and finer 'advancement' workings of EVE?
I don't know why I bothered responding in all honesty. You cleary miss the entire point of open world games and the nuances of open world conflict.
Yep it's all just about teh zerg and all pvp should always be 'fair'. We should all line up in a queue waiting to pvp in the same place, against the same people in exactly the same numbers over and over again. PvP is all about the combat in and of it's self, pre fight organization, logistics, politics and dynamic tactics are all a waste of time. Cool.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."