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Am I the only one that's not amazed by Bioware's stories?
ScoutMastr
Member Posts: 140
When I see posts like "Story is what Bioware does better...etc." , I have a hard time taking them seriously. I have to admit, the only Bioware stories I've completed are Mass Effect 1 & 2...I tried playing through KOTOR, but it glitched towards the end on my 360--I have no intentions of breakin out my old XBOX at the moment and then playing through it all again. Not ONCE was I "amazed" at any of the interactions with the characters or stories being told in those games--In fact, for the most part, I found myself trying to do whatever I wanted to do...usually stuff that was impossible, but you get bored with the narrative and then start making a game out of not playing the darn game...that's why I loved the first Assassin's Creed--playing it like it was meant to be played was rather boring, but you could have fun just being a mass murderer and then piling up the streets with dead guards and civilians, or simply just running along rooftops and whatnot--screw the story lol.
I know a guy at work that's going back to school(College), and he was telling me that he never considered himself very good at writing, but many people seemed rather impressed with his papers. He figured he was average at best, but during some sort of student peer evaluation--where he and the other students were critiquing each others' work...well, this is the impression he got from those students that were pretty much fresh out of high school:
"WHAT I DID ON MY SUMMER VACATION:"
"I HAD FUN ON MY SUMMER VACATION. I WENT TO THE BEACH WITH MY FRIENDS..."... you get the idea.
For some reason, when he told me that, it made me think about Bioware's stories...I kid you not. Sure you can make choices that might have consequences, but that doesn't make it a "good" story. The stories probably aren't "bad", they just seem rather uninspired to me, and from what i've seen from this new story, it's much of the same. As far as video games go, Bioware probably doesn't have the worst stories, but I can think of a couple that I think have better stories--like GOW3(the only one I've played), and The Force Unleashed(the first one). I didn't much care for the subject matter, or even the characters in "God of War", but story-wise I thought it was better than the last "Clash of the Titans" movie lol. the story in TFU wasn't great by any means, but it was better than KOTOR in my opinion...I'm not even sure who made those games, but I know LucasArts had to be involved with TFU.
I think this is why so many people have their reservations about implementing this type of story mechanic in an MMORPG, especially if SWG was the only MMORPG you've ever played. That's the case for me, so I'll never have that "It's Bioware, and the one thing that they do best is story" feeling.
Comments
There's a real simple solution -- don't play the game.
If you didn't like KOTOR and you don't like Bioware's storytelling, then following TOR or playing it will be entirely pointless for you.
We have had story in games for years, I don't see what the hype is all about to be honest. I play mmos to play not listen to a storybook.
My problem with Bioware's storytelling is that they lack originality and are extremely predictable.
Bioware RPG Cliche Chart
I don't completely disagree on this.
I actually felt that the story in NWN2 vanilla (and NWN 1 for that matter) was pretty weak. But I thought the story in the expansion Mask of the Betrayer was awesome, but that was made by Obsidian.
I DID like the story in KOTOR though, so props to BW on that. However, I think that the best stories were from the Black Isle days. Planescape Torment is probably the best story-driven CRPG I can think of.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
So why bother following an MMO that's built around their storytelling? It seems like a colossal waste of your time.
This is one of those rhetorical threads. Its like asking, am I the only one not amazing by watching the Lord of the Rings Trilogy? Now for me personally, those were my favorite movies of all time, loved the books, but I ask others around me and some never saw them, felt they were boring, or felt like they couldn't sit still for 3+ hours to watch somethings. Most I talked to loved the movies which is pretty much on par with how much money they made.
KOTOR did quite well, selling millions of boxes and winning tons of awards. For you, it may just not be your thing. Its not your fault, you just didn't like the story. For millions of others, they did. I expect the same experience for you in SWTOR.
There Is Always Hope!
Why visit forums if you don't want to read other people's opinions?
While I've enjoyed many of their games, I've never found their storytelling to be anything better than above average. Funcom does better stories. Squaresoft does better stories. Sierra does better stories. Microid does better stories. I would even say that Turbine does better stories (some of the stuff in LotRO is really well done). Bioware is above average at best.
It all depends on the story.
I like KOTOR and KOTOR 2, I like ME and ME2, I liked Jade Empire.... I didn't like DA:O, and for that reason didn't play DA2. I like the choice options for NWN, but the story wasn't particularly great to me.
While the story for ME isn't mindblowing, its pretty good, and your choices are pretty widespread... I can only begin to see the effects in ME3.
Because in TOR, you're not just listening to the story, you are actually making choices that has a direct affect on your character.
WRONG! Funcom's story telling is why I left AOC. I felt totally disconnected from the boring story after level 20, managed to get near 50, and couldn't take it anymore.
There Is Always Hope!
Yeah, Bioware's storytelling doesn't impress me, either. It's not bad, just not good. What it is, that sets them apart, is just very central to the game overall. Good or bad storytelling aside, some people prefer that.
You know what developer's stories do impress me, though? Rockstar's. One of the very few that can do cutscenes I actually consider worth watching. Ironically not somthing they're known for at all. I think, because they don't use it as a crutch to hold up the gameplay or anything, it's there on the side, like they go the extra mile, just because that's what they do.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I'm looking forward to the story, though never overly captivated by a Bioware story, but appreciated how it fed into the game-play of one of their single-player rpg's.
Here-in lies the rub for a sustained subscription from me; the swtor game-play had better transcend the linear non-massively multiplayer architect that about every other mmorpg hangs their hat on. The story had better present realizable massively-multiplayer game-play
Ah yes. That old canard.
Look -- if you're not interested in a game for whatever reason, and you're not going to play it, why post on the forums for that game to say so? It's a waste of time. For example, I have no interest in EVE. No plans to ever play it. I'm not going to go to the EVE forums to say that, since there's no point. Same goes for games like Darkfall or Rift. No interest in them, no plans to ever play them, so I won't waste anyone's time by going to their forums to say I'm not interested. It just seems stupid to me.
To be honset. Bioware has always delivered for the most part. no matter how people say they didnt like game A or game B they were still none the less good games. complaining and such gets you no where. if you don't want to play the game then don't play it.. no one cares about what you think specially if it is negative. it doesn't matter. Its the people bringing all the hype in. Bioware isn't even talking their self up.
I liked the story in ME 1 & 2. Yeah there is a lot of cliche in Bioware's stories, especially Dragon Age: Origins, but it's having choices and making you feel like you are a part of the story that I think they do the best. Sure there are a lot of options you don't have, some people will always want to do or say something outlandish or just unexpected, but you really can't expect them to make the program 'that' responsive. There's always going to be a limit until AI catches up with human intelligence and can make changes on the fly. But hey, I come from a generation where run to the left or right and jump were often the only options you had, so I may be easier to please than most... lol
I concur about ME 1&2. I usually dont' care for "sci-fi" races, but i really enjoyed what they came up with for ME.
Asari is probably my favorite sci-fi race to date.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
I am not trying to be rude, but you basically described what is ´fun´ for you... running around mindlessly killing mobs for no prupose but to nearly break the game. People like different things. If you don´t like something to begin with, you aren´t going to be i a position to distinguish ´mediocre´ from ´great´. You have to be interested in storytelling to know when a company does it well.
I like beer.. I can sit back and enjoy the great qualities of a good beer. I don´t like wine.. I honestly can´t taste the difference between a $10 bottle of wine to a $100 bottle. Does that give me the right to tell the people who make the $100 wine that their wine isn´t that good?
I think many RPGs are made like porn movies. The most important part to the developers are the action scenes... and the scripting and acting get just enough attention to make it seem like there is a story. Bioware builds both parts equally. They also have people on staff who are good at character development and fleshing out characters.. there are just memorable characters from many of their games because they put the effort into adding emotions to the characters. I still remember characters and their personalities from BG and NWN1... they felt like real people.
what he said :-)
Who said I wasn't interested in the game and that I'm never going to play it? That's news to me, because I've never said anything like that, nor have I ever felt that way.
Just because I'm less than thrilled with Bioware's recent history of RPGs, doesn't mean I'm absolutely writing off the game. Such a position is just as narrow minded as being a pompom shaking fanboy cheering on the hype for the game and proclaiming how awesome it is, without even ever having played it.
Am I thrilled with where the game's development looks to be going? Not really. Do I think the game will be terrible? Not necessarily, but neither do I have evidence that it will be amazing either. I'm just cautiously following the game because I do want it to be good, but it's still too early to make a solid call on the quality of the game until it's actually released.
Despite Bioware's recent history of lackluster stories, they still have th potential to redeem themselves. That's why I'm still following the game. Just because I have hesitation and criticism, doesn't make my opinions invalid any more than your optimism of the game makes your opinions valid.
Games are based on reptition. This reptition can only be amusing for so long without some kind of deviation from it. That is where story telling comes in. Don't kid yourself if you think that SWTOR is going to be the only MMORPG in the future that relies heavily on story. Guild Wars 2 is in a similar boat, they just have a few different gameplay mechanics then SWTOR.
I found Mass Effect 1 & 2 to be highly entertaining, Dragon age 1 was okay and 2 was meh.
I've always thought when people praise the "storytelling" in Bioware games they're really just using the word as a shorthand to describe a whole bunch of things, of which narrative is only one. Stuff like worldbuilding (backstory, lore, etc). Characters. Even though they tend to repeat themselves (Bioware loves bossy, disapproving females; and was Shale an homage to HK-47, or were they just ripping themselves off?) there are always loads of characters to get to know, and they're usually pretty fleshed out, if occasionally cliche. Good dialogue with top-quality voice acting. That sort of thing.
Purely on the level of narrative--this happened and then this happened and then this happened--maybe not all that special. But I can't think of another developer that's as good at making me care about NPCs.
If we can agree upon a criteria in which to judge the stories in which you refer, I think we maybe able to come to an agreement.
Without some common ground though, i believe this thread will just be a place for people to troll one another about their opinions.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
I thought I gave a couple when I stated that Bioware's stories tend to rehash themselves and in part because of that are very predictable? I even presented a chart that someone else had created that outlines several story elements that are repeated throughout several Bioware games.
I think it's absolute nonsense to label people as trolls simply because they have a differing opinion that takes a pessimistic view. By that logic, I should consider anyone who has a differing opinion and takes an optimistic view should be considered a mindless fanboy lost to the hype.