I am want to say this one more time. I don't think most people care about getting the disks. SV said they would do it and did not. They should at least come out and say they will not do it. There was thread after thread on the MO forums on this and each one was answered with a "we will get back to you".
I hate disks. . steam, D2D etc. are my best friends. . I can't keep a CD key around to save my life and everytime I reformat my PC it is a lot less work to grab digital donwload. I guess I am old fashioned though in thinking that companies should deliver what they said they would especially when it is something someone is pre-ordering based soley on their faith in the company! All they were selling at that point was a promise and they didn't deliver. Is it a major component. . not for me but still they need to address it. It just looks bad.
originally MO's devs only planned a digital download version of MO. However due to constant requests by members of the forums for some form of special edition version they could by. The devs decided to make one that would be at 0 profit to them in the from of the limited edition version and the boxed version.
Near rleease the devs were pressured constantly by players who demanded their boxed versions sending out regardless of being able to play the game via digital dl early, resulting in a version that was not compatible on release for the first 1 month. it took 1 month for the devs to make the disc version compatible.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I love MO, let me put that out there right now. I've played for a couple months now and I enjoy my time playing, mostly. I just can not handle SV anymore. They have to be the WORST company ever. The "patches" they have break more things in the game then they fix, the GMs in the game are a complete joke and the support on site is even worse. Just recently I was mailing 100 gold to my other character, It got lost in the mail, my other character never recieved it. I talk to support, what do they do? Naw, sorry we can't refund your gold. No reason what so ever and I get no email back. Cool eh? I love MO but SV seriously needs to go, they need to sell MO to some other company if at all possible.
The thing is though Killswitch the mail you talk about was not bugged at all. You thought that you could send mail to character in other towns where as the post only works for transfer within the same city.
Agreed the GMs are too few and far between.
I know it doesn't, I'm not a noob, as I've said I have played for a couple months. It wasn't just me it happened to either, I know about 4 or 5 other people it happened to aswell.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos
So you consider a quest object spawning above player or twitchy camera for another a "deep flaw"? I asked for game breaking bugs, not for minor stuff like one player having issues to connect, that's in any game. But I don't see Rift turning off some major feature or making game unplayable for everyone during whole weekend because of bugged spell or broken patch, do I? Shrug, if MO had that sort of "deep flaws" as Rift having, it would be a joy to play, so I stand correct so far. While all games have their minor issues, MO takes the top atm with it's unstability.
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by Toferio
Originally posted by funkmastaD
Originally posted by Toferio
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
Ok, let's take a shot here, something recent since MO is... Rift. Go on, find me game breaking bugs and game breaking patches feature in that. Let's see if their server goes down every now and then, if they have borked prediction system or if they are forced to shut down game features (chests, mounts, doors?) in order to get game functional.
Personal preferences for sandbox or themepark aside, there you go.
Since we've been talking about the general AAA experience, would you say that RIFT is the average AAA release compared to all the others from the last 5 or 6 years (i.e. Vanguard, AoC, WAR, CO, STO, Global Agenda, APB, FFXIV, Aion, Auto Assault, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, DCUO, etc)?
You've listed some problems peculiar to MO, and asked if they occur in other games, as though those are the only possible problems than an MMO can have, while defining the problems that the other games have as "nitpicking". I can assure you that the critics of those other games feel that the shortcomings of those games are just as serious, and just as valid, as you believe MO's issues to be. If pointing out their shortcomings is nitpicking, then the same should be said of pointing out MO's shortcomings, if we are to be objective and fair about it. The specific problems can be different, and still valid for each different game.
Beyond that, when discussing the total AAA experience, I believe that encompasses not just the technical, but also things like design and innovation. Given that, they all have their own well publicized, much ballyhooed shortcomings, many of which MO does not share. To use your example, RIFT is probably the most clone-like game of all the WoW clones (while MO certainly is not). I'm not sure anyone at Trion has ever had an innovative thought in their lives, and if they have, RIFT provides no proof of it. Class balance was horrible to start, and is still a problem. Did we need another instance-laden game? Trion thinks so. Linear gameplay stemming from just two starting areas (one for each faction) is substandard for the genre. The same old, same old in trumped up faction based themepark PvP. A gear grind - what a surprise. Uninspired, run-of-the-mill crafting. An overall shortage in content at launch - a common shortfall for most MMOs. One need only venture over to the RIFT forum on this site to find the myriad of "valid" and serious criticisms of that game - criticisms that are just as valid as the ones found for MO, though the specific issues may be different. To many of the critics on this site, RIFT is considered a failure.
If the pinacle of the AAA experience is just more-of-the-same, uninspired game design theft, then RIFT has certainly met that standard. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the vast majority of other AAA titles have sadly fallen far short of even being able to be a good copy of other games, both in design and technical competence.
In any event, I prefer a fantasy sandbox game. RIFT does not provide such an experience, no matter its level of polish, and it never will. MO does provide that type of gameplay, which is more important in my view.
Heh, I did ask to put aside personal preferences for sandbox or themepark aside when comparing, didn't I? I can't deny that MO is innovative (although their design approach is one of worst Ive seen, but that is personal opinion), nor that it tries to break away from the WoW clones. But the topic wasn't about it being innovative or not, was. Sorry for short reply, but there is nothing to discuss really since I do agree with most in your post, despite it not being original topic.
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos
So you consider a quest object spawning above player or twitchy camera for another a "deep flaw"? I asked for game breaking bugs, not for minor stuff like one player having issues to connect, that's in any game. But I don't see Rift turning off some major feature or making game unplayable for everyone during whole weekend because of bugged spell or broken patch, do I? Shrug, if MO had that sort of "deep flaws" as Rift having, it would be a joy to play, so I stand correct so far. While all games have their minor issues, MO takes the top atm with it's unstability.
Well, when I said that, I was thinking more of the constant d/c's, crashes, desync, and unplayable lag that RIFT players have been experiencing very recently, as linked below the youtube links. Again, I'm sympathetic for the guys over at RIFT, I know how common it is for people to blow problems out of proportion on forums and on youtube, please don't think I'm being critical of that team, just as I don't think it's fair to be critical of SV (bringing us wildly back on topic!)
Well, when I said that, I was thinking more of the constant d/c's, crashes, desync, and unplayable lag that RIFT players have been experiencing very recently, as linked below the youtube links. Again, I'm sympathetic for the guys over at RIFT, I know how common it is for people to blow problems out of proportion on forums and on youtube, please don't think I'm being critical of that team, just as I don't think it's fair to be critical of SV (bringing us wildly back on topic!)
It's a matter of scale... How many people have played RiFT in the last few months? 500k? 1 Mil? I honestly donot know, but what I do know is that if the entire MO playerbase shifted to RiFT it wouldn't even be a blip on their screen...
So yes... number of complaints and issues is directly proportional to the number of players. If I have 99% success rate with customers that would be pretty good. If 1% of my population is 10,000 that's still an awful lot of people not happy.
If my population of subscribers is 2000 and only 500 complain... that's a much... MUCH worse rate.
Trying to compare the polish of MO and RiFT just makes for a silly argument as you are picking the wrong target. RiFT was one of the most polished games to release in recent memory. Mortal was one of the least, by their own admission. And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I am want to say this one more time. I don't think most people care about getting the disks. SV said they would do it and did not. They should at least come out and say they will not do it. There was thread after thread on the MO forums on this and each one was answered with a "we will get back to you".
I hate disks. . steam, D2D etc. are my best friends. . I can't keep a CD key around to save my life and everytime I reformat my PC it is a lot less work to grab digital donwload. I guess I am old fashioned though in thinking that companies should deliver what they said they would especially when it is something someone is pre-ordering based soley on their faith in the company! All they were selling at that point was a promise and they didn't deliver. Is it a major component. . not for me but still they need to address it. It just looks bad.
I agree, except I don't think it just LOOKS bad. I think it IS bad... horrendous actually. And shady stuff like this is exactly what separates SV from most normal companies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Trying to compare the polish of MO and RiFT just makes for a silly argument as you are picking the wrong target. RiFT was one of the most polished games to release in recent memory. Mortal was one of the least, by their own admission. And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
Yeah, RIFT is absolutely a polished game, I said that in my first RIFT-related post. It still has problems with desync, constant crashing, unplayable lag, etcetcetc.
So now you're saying that an AAA game still has a slew of gamebreaking bugs, but the more players a game has the more marginilized the bugs are... in which case, it seems the only thing that differentiates an AAA game from it's AA, A, B, and C bretheren is it's marketting department.
As to why I'm bringing RIFT into it... this discussion is about SV being replaced by a 'AAA' team, and I was thinking "wtf is a AAA team"... now I know anyway, but this certainly wasn't off-topic, this was just my way of determining what people were talking a bout... apparently, they're talking about marketting.
Well, when I said that, I was thinking more of the constant d/c's, crashes, desync, and unplayable lag that RIFT players have been experiencing very recently, as linked below the youtube links. Again, I'm sympathetic for the guys over at RIFT, I know how common it is for people to blow problems out of proportion on forums and on youtube, please don't think I'm being critical of that team, just as I don't think it's fair to be critical of SV (bringing us wildly back on topic!)
It's a matter of scale... How many people have played RiFT in the last few months? 500k? 1 Mil? I honestly donot know, but what I do know is that if the entire MO playerbase shifted to RiFT it wouldn't even be a blip on their screen...
So yes... number of complaints and issues is directly proportional to the number of players. If I have 99% success rate with customers that would be pretty good. If 1% of my population is 10,000 that's still an awful lot of people not happy.
If my population of subscribers is 2000 and only 500 complain... that's a much... MUCH worse rate.
Trying to compare the polish of MO and RiFT just makes for a silly argument as you are picking the wrong target. RiFT was one of the most polished games to release in recent memory. Mortal was one of the least, by their own admission. And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
The graphics and surface of the game may have been polished. The game as a whole was very rough and bug ridden. Notice the immense number of buf fixes in their 3 patches.
Trying to compare the polish of MO and RiFT just makes for a silly argument as you are picking the wrong target. RiFT was one of the most polished games to release in recent memory. Mortal was one of the least, by their own admission. And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
Yeah, RIFT is absolutely a polished game, I said that in my first RIFT-related post. It still has problems with desync, constant crashing, unplayable lag, etcetcetc.
So now you're saying that an AAA game still has a slew of gamebreaking bugs, but the more players a game has the more marginilized the bugs are... in which case, it seems the only thing that differentiates an AAA game from it's AA, A, B, and C bretheren is it's marketting department.
As to why I'm bringing RIFT into it... this discussion is about SV being replaced by a 'AAA' team, and I was thinking "wtf is a AAA team"... now I know anyway, but this certainly wasn't off-topic, this was just my way of determining what people were talking a bout... apparently, they're talking about marketting.
Please re-read the green quote from you.
Then please re-read the red quote from you.
You are arguing with yourself apparently as those are mutually exclusive comments (an absolutely polished game by definition does not contain a "slew of gamebreaking bugs"). Please stop trying to compare the quality and completeness of RiFT with MO. It is IMHO a silly argument to even try and make and apparently at least 1/2 of you (green quote) agrees with me. Talk all you want about subjective differences such as "I prefer MO to RiFT's WoW-like gameplay",(I decided to skip the game myself) but trying to compare the quality/polish and bug prevalence is just plain silly and 99.9% of the folks here will instantly recognise that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Trying to compare the polish of MO and RiFT just makes for a silly argument as you are picking the wrong target. RiFT was one of the most polished games to release in recent memory. Mortal was one of the least, by their own admission. And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
Yeah, RIFT is absolutely a polished game, I said that in my first RIFT-related post. It still has problems with desync, constant crashing, unplayable lag, etcetcetc.
So now you're saying that an AAA game still has a slew of gamebreaking bugs, but the more players a game has the more marginilized the bugs are... in which case, it seems the only thing that differentiates an AAA game from it's AA, A, B, and C bretheren is it's marketting department.
As to why I'm bringing RIFT into it... this discussion is about SV being replaced by a 'AAA' team, and I was thinking "wtf is a AAA team"... now I know anyway, but this certainly wasn't off-topic, this was just my way of determining what people were talking a bout... apparently, they're talking about marketting.
Please re-read the green quote from you.
Then please re-read the red quote from you.
Wait... you said RIFT was polished, and you said that after seeing my list.... Do you not believe those RIFT bugs are real, or are you mis-using your own definition of the word?
Trying to compare the polish of MO and RiFT just makes for a silly argument as you are picking the wrong target. RiFT was one of the most polished games to release in recent memory. Mortal was one of the least, by their own admission. And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
Yeah, RIFT is absolutely a polished game, I said that in my first RIFT-related post. It still has problems with desync, constant crashing, unplayable lag, etcetcetc.
So now you're saying that an AAA game still has a slew of gamebreaking bugs, but the more players a game has the more marginilized the bugs are... in which case, it seems the only thing that differentiates an AAA game from it's AA, A, B, and C bretheren is it's marketting department.
As to why I'm bringing RIFT into it... this discussion is about SV being replaced by a 'AAA' team, and I was thinking "wtf is a AAA team"... now I know anyway, but this certainly wasn't off-topic, this was just my way of determining what people were talking a bout... apparently, they're talking about marketting.
Please re-read the green quote from you.
Then please re-read the red quote from you.
Wait... you said RIFT was polished, and you said that after seeing my list.... Do you not believe those RIFT bugs are real, or are you mis-using your own definition of the word?
Rift is one of the most polished games to be released.. not sure why your getting all those disconnect problems.. well any of it tbh.. i've been playing for several months.. and i don't get them.. maybe its because i play on the EU servers? either way.. for me.. they don't seem to exist.
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos
Yes, like any AAA game Rift has and had minor bugs. This is expected and there is no way around it due to the nature of programing.
Though you can't use this kind of stuff to defend MO. The level of issues MO has been plauged with isn't on par with AAA games, it's not even on par with indie games like DarkFall. MO is alone in it's flaws because of the frequency and the severity, the only other MMO to have this much of an issue that I can think of may be Dark and Light but even that one may have been in better shape.
In any case comparing the bugs and crap in other MMO's to the bugs and crap in MO is like comparing a paper cut and missing an arm. Sure both bleed, hurt and etc. but come on, they aren't comparable.
And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
This is something that critics need to realize - that just because an individual or group of individuals thinks a game "sucks" doesn't mean that it's the "truth". As hard as it may be to understand, it's still nothing more than an opinion, not a fact. It is possible for one person to like something that another person doesn't.
Of course, statements such as the one quoted above are invalid on its face. If someone is a "fan" of something, that generally means that they like it, and probably don't think it "sucks". Why people persist in trying to paint fans as somehow either deluding themselves (i.e. they think they like it, but they really don't), or being deceptive (i.e. they don't really like it, but are just saying they do), is beyond me.
I like MO. I think it's a fun game to play. I believe SV will stick with the game, and should because their vision for the game is better than anything I've seen in a long time. There's no law that's prevented other companies, including the "AAA" developers, from creating such a game. They've just lacked the vision and will to do so.
I always wanted to play MO after i played the Beta, it was lots of fun but now i hear so many negative things about MO.
Also Darkfall seems to have hit the jackpot, i remember it being mentioned a lot and being popular for a while. Is that still the case? I also played Darkfall during its beta and it was also awesome but yeah then i heard of MO which was suppost to be better lols.
And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
This is something that critics need to realize - that just because an individual or group of individuals thinks a game "sucks" doesn't mean that it's the "truth". As hard as it may be to understand, it's still nothing more than an opinion, not a fact. It is possible for one person to like something that another person doesn't.
Of course, statements such as the one quoted above are invalid on its face. If someone is a "fan" of something, that generally means that they like it, and probably don't think it "sucks". Why people persist in trying to paint fans as somehow either deluding themselves (i.e. they think they like it, but they really don't), or being deceptive (i.e. they don't really like it, but are just saying they do), is beyond me.
I like MO. I think it's a fun game to play. I believe SV will stick with the game, and should because their vision for the game is better than anything I've seen in a long time. There's no law that's prevented other companies, including the "AAA" developers, from creating such a game. They've just lacked the vision and will to do so.
Perhaps you misread the intent of the post. I was not discussing "opinions", I was discussing facts. You can objectively look at bugs and polish if you have experienced both games. I am speaking to the repeated fallback with some folks that it's OK that feature XYZ is broken because there is at least one other game that has the same feature broken too!
That's just hogwash. Fans have to stop trying to justify BROKEN or outright MISSING things because some other game did the same thing. That is the never-ending lowing of the bar which has lead us to the sorry state of what we accept from companies today.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes, like any AAA game Rift has and had minor bugs. This is expected and there is no way around it due to the nature of programing.
Though you can't use this kind of stuff to defend MO. The level of issues MO has been plauged with isn't on par with AAA games, it's not even on par with indie games like DarkFall. MO is alone in it's flaws because of the frequency and the severity, the only other MMO to have this much of an issue that I can think of may be Dark and Light but even that one may have been in better shape.
In any case comparing the bugs and crap in other MMO's to the bugs and crap in MO is like comparing a paper cut and missing an arm. Sure both bleed, hurt and etc. but come on, they aren't comparable.
Exactly. And most folks will immediately understand that the argument attempting to be made above is just silly...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos
Yes, like any AAA game Rift has and had minor bugs. This is expected and there is no way around it due to the nature of programing.
Though you can't use this kind of stuff to defend MO. The level of issues MO has been plauged with isn't on par with AAA games, it's not even on par with indie games like DarkFall. MO is alone in it's flaws because of the frequency and the severity, the only other MMO to have this much of an issue that I can think of may be Dark and Light but even that one may have been in better shape.
In any case comparing the bugs and crap in other MMO's to the bugs and crap in MO is like comparing a paper cut and missing an arm. Sure both bleed, hurt and etc. but come on, they aren't comparable.
definitely.. after watching the youtube video's .. waste of time that was btw.. came to the conclusion that most of it was down to problems with peoples computers, some of them were definitely in dire need of a graphic upgrade (always make sure to look at the minimum requirements for games!) as for the forum posts about the disconnects.. i think the only thing that can really be obtained from those.. is that a few people were getting disconnects.. which as another forum writer answered, is something thats outside of Trion's control anyway.. people will always be at the mercy of their ISP.. though.. have to say.. it looks like some of the people went to pretty extreme lengths to try and make those video's look at least a little convincing.. pointless tbh.. but.. all beside the point anyway.. nobody is forcing anyone to play MO.... the problems with it are fairly well documented and its a work in progress still.. if it was a finished product then i'd be more concerned..
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos
Yes, like any AAA game Rift has and had minor bugs. This is expected and there is no way around it due to the nature of programing.
Though you can't use this kind of stuff to defend MO. The level of issues MO has been plauged with isn't on par with AAA games, it's not even on par with indie games like DarkFall. MO is alone in it's flaws because of the frequency and the severity, the only other MMO to have this much of an issue that I can think of may be Dark and Light but even that one may have been in better shape.
In any case comparing the bugs and crap in other MMO's to the bugs and crap in MO is like comparing a paper cut and missing an arm. Sure both bleed, hurt and etc. but come on, they aren't comparable.
I think this proves the point rather well. It's easy to mine problematic information from an official site, wave it around, scream about it as much as possbile on other web sites, mischaracterize the severity, and blow it out of proportion. The same thing happens with MO frequently.
I'm not going to claim that MO is as polished as RIFT, because it's not. It does have problems with bugs, as well as some other shortfalls that need to be corrected.
On the positive side, MO is also not a soulless, more-of-the-same carbon copy themepark, devoid of anything approximating innovation or a unique vision. Unfortunately, RIFT is the type of simplistic, derivative game we've come to expect from AAAs these days. At least Trion was able to create a decent clone of other games, because most of the other AAA developers haven't even been capable of that.
The sandbox crowd is a niche audience. Major develpers, like Trion, are looking to grab the maximum amount of cash possible. As a result, it's unlikely that any AAA company would attempt to make an MMO like Mortal.
Lastly, RIFT has not been representative of AAA games in the last 5 years. DCUO has been a miserable failure on the PC, for reasons ranging from bugs and exploits to an extreme lack of content. FFXIV might be the worst MMO to ever launch - terrible on every level other than graphical quality. Hell, look at APB - a lobby game masquerading as a P2P MMO, so poorly designed, infinitely exploitable, and grossly mismanaged that it died in 79 days. The "greatness" of the AAA game is a laughable fallacy.
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos
Yes, like any AAA game Rift has and had minor bugs. This is expected and there is no way around it due to the nature of programing.
Though you can't use this kind of stuff to defend MO. The level of issues MO has been plauged with isn't on par with AAA games, it's not even on par with indie games like DarkFall. MO is alone in it's flaws because of the frequency and the severity, the only other MMO to have this much of an issue that I can think of may be Dark and Light but even that one may have been in better shape.
In any case comparing the bugs and crap in other MMO's to the bugs and crap in MO is like comparing a paper cut and missing an arm. Sure both bleed, hurt and etc. but come on, they aren't comparable.
I think this proves the point rather well. It's easy to mine problematic information from an official site, wave it around, scream about it as much as possbile on other web sites, mischaracterize the severity, and blow it out of proportion. The same thing happens with MO frequently.
I'm not going to claim that MO is as polished as RIFT, because it's not. It does have problems with bugs, as well as some other shortfalls that need to be corrected.
On the positive side, MO is also not a soulless, more-of-the-same carbon copy themepark, devoid of anything approximating innovation or a unique vision. Unfortunately, RIFT is the type of simplistic, derivative game we've come to expect from AAAs these days. At least Trion was able to create a decent clone of other games, because most of the other AAA developers haven't even been capable of that.
The sandbox crowd is a niche audience. Major develpers, like Trion, are looking to grab the maximum amount of cash possible. As a result, it's unlikely that any AAA company would attempt to make an MMO like Mortal.
Lastly, RIFT has not been representative of AAA games in the last 5 years. DCUO has been a miserable failure on the PC, for reasons ranging from bugs and exploits to an extreme lack of content. FFXIV might be the worst MMO to ever launch - terrible on every level other than graphical quality. Hell, look at APB - a lobby game masquerading as a P2P MMO, so poorly designed, infinitely exploitable, and grossly mismanaged that it died in 79 days. The "greatness" of the AAA game is a laughable fallacy.
There is no greatness claimed for AAA MMO's. The only thing AAA even means is that it has a larger budget and a large as well as hopely experienced team working on it. Being backed by the money has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages.
Indie doesn't mean unique either, DFO and MO both struck out to clone UO as much as they could while improving graphics and combat and then throwing there own flare on to things. Indie just means someone without the large budget and large team. Being free from the chains of those suits with the money has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages.
Now it's sad that you wen't on to bash things like APB, DCUO and FFXIV etc. While they may be flops, the problem is they've all done much better than MO lol. Had fewer bugs, more players, etc. So bringing up the fact that even the worst the AAA sector has to bring to the table is better than MO in what ever means you wish to measure success probably isn't the best idea for an MO supporter.
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos
Yes, like any AAA game Rift has and had minor bugs. This is expected and there is no way around it due to the nature of programing.
Though you can't use this kind of stuff to defend MO. The level of issues MO has been plauged with isn't on par with AAA games, it's not even on par with indie games like DarkFall. MO is alone in it's flaws because of the frequency and the severity, the only other MMO to have this much of an issue that I can think of may be Dark and Light but even that one may have been in better shape.
In any case comparing the bugs and crap in other MMO's to the bugs and crap in MO is like comparing a paper cut and missing an arm. Sure both bleed, hurt and etc. but come on, they aren't comparable.
I think this proves the point rather well. It's easy to mine problematic information from an official site, wave it around, scream about it as much as possbile on other web sites, mischaracterize the severity, and blow it out of proportion. The same thing happens with MO frequently.
I'm not going to claim that MO is as polished as RIFT, because it's not. It does have problems with bugs, as well as some other shortfalls that need to be corrected.
On the positive side, MO is also not a soulless, more-of-the-same carbon copy themepark, devoid of anything approximating innovation or a unique vision. Unfortunately, RIFT is the type of simplistic, derivative game we've come to expect from AAAs these days. At least Trion was able to create a decent clone of other games, because most of the other AAA developers haven't even been capable of that.
The sandbox crowd is a niche audience. Major develpers, like Trion, are looking to grab the maximum amount of cash possible. As a result, it's unlikely that any AAA company would attempt to make an MMO like Mortal.
Lastly, RIFT has not been representative of AAA games in the last 5 years. DCUO has been a miserable failure on the PC, for reasons ranging from bugs and exploits to an extreme lack of content. FFXIV might be the worst MMO to ever launch - terrible on every level other than graphical quality. Hell, look at APB - a lobby game masquerading as a P2P MMO, so poorly designed, infinitely exploitable, and grossly mismanaged that it died in 79 days. The "greatness" of the AAA game is a laughable fallacy.
There is no greatness claimed for AAA MMO's. The only thing AAA even means is that it has a larger budget and a large as well as hopely experienced team working on it. Being backed by the money has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages.
Indie doesn't mean unique either, DFO and MO both struck out to clone UO as much as they could while improving graphics and combat and then throwing there own flare on to things. Indie just means someone without the large budget and large team. Being free from the chains of those suits with the money has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages.
Now it's sad that you wen't on to bash things like APB, DCUO and FFXIV etc. While they may be flops, the problem is they've all done much better than MO lol. Had fewer bugs, more players, etc. So bringing up the fact that even the worst the AAA sector has to bring to the table is better than MO in what ever means you wish to measure success probably isn't the best idea for an MO supporter.
The point of this thread is whether or not MO might do better under a different developer, including a AAA developer. Your points reinforce the fact that being under a different develper would not guarantee it would be better.
Identifying the horrific status of other supposed AAA games further proves the point that other developers, including the major ones, is no guarantee of superior performance. Quite the opposite is more often the case, as is evidenced by the record-setting death of APB. The death of a game isn't anything to be happy about, and I'm glad fans of the game have another chance with Reloaded, but it's laughable to think that a game actually being bad enough to die so quickly is better than the still surviving MO.
MO is a niche game that will likely appeal to only a small subset of the overall MMO community. I think that was pretty well understood at the very beginning by anyone with any knowledge whatsoever of the MMO space. The major developers go for mass appeal, and the big, "WoW killer" money. I don't think that was ever SV's intent - they were rather trying to carve out a sustainable niche in the space, and provide a type of game sorely lacking to fans of the sandbox sub-genre.
And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
I like MO. I think it's a fun game to play.
And I don't argue with that. MO can be good fun, etc etc. But is it a well made game? No. I am able to look past my dislike for SV (Note, SV, not MO as game) and admit that it can be fun to play. Yet I also am critical and realize it is really buggy, unpolished and overall crappy design/development wise. That does not make it any less fun to play for certain individuals none the less.
And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
I like MO. I think it's a fun game to play.
And I don't argue with that. MO can be good fun, etc etc. But is it a well made game? No. I am able to look past my dislike for SV (Note, SV, not MO as game) and admit that it can be fun to play. Yet I also am critical and realize it is really buggy, unpolished and overall crappy design/development wise. That does not make it any less fun to play for certain individuals none the less.
I think we agree that there are definitely some rough edges in the game that SV still needs to polish, though we might disagree on the overall impact that roughness has on the game. Regardless, I appreciate your candor and thoughtful opinions.
That's not always the case here, with this or any other game. There are those who go to great lengths to sift through the official MO forums to find and attempt to publicize only the negative issues, or spin information in a uniformly negative way. Does that sound like an objective or credible way of informing others, especially when you realize how easy it is to find negative posts on any forum? That's not just a problem here - it appears to be the general nature of forums.
While we agree that MO still needs work, I think that the problems the game has are routinely exaggerated for dramatic or sensationalistic effect. Additionally, I think the fact that the game has gotten better overall since launch is largely ignored. No, it's still not perfect, but it's also not as bad as some intentionally try to make it sound. SV has been improving the game - perhaps not as quickly as any of us would like - but it is getting better.
Improving is a good thing, as there really aren't any other games out there that provide the same experience it does.
I think we agree that there are definitely some rough edges in the game that SV still needs to polish, though we might disagree on the overall impact that roughness has on the game. Regardless, I appreciate your candor and thoughtful opinions.
That's not always the case here, with this or any other game. There are those who go to great lengths to sift through the official MO forums to find and attempt to publicize only the negative issues, or spin information in a uniformly negative way. Does that sound like an objective or credible way of informing others, especially when you realize how easy it is to find negative posts on any forum? That's not just a problem here - it appears to be the general nature of forums.
While we agree that MO still needs work, I think that the problems the game has are routinely exaggerated for dramatic or sensationalistic effect. Additionally, I think the fact that the game has gotten better overall since launch is largely ignored. No, it's still not perfect, but it's also not as bad as some intentionally try to make it sound. SV has been improving the game - perhaps not as quickly as any of us would like - but it is getting better.
Improving is a good thing, as there really aren't any other games out there that provide the same experience it does.
Rough edges is an understatement. When you haven't shipped a *single* patch that didn't break other things, that's not indicative of something that is a 'rough edge', it's indicative of something that shows that your programming skill is atrocious. Not to mention, that the CORE component to patch the game, was made by a FAN. The development team couldn't even muster up a decent patcher that does difference based patching, even if you put aside the P2P part of it.
As for negative issues, I think that you have full rights to enjoy MO. Nobody really denies this, and if you find it appealing then there's nothing wrong with that. We haven't been talking about how much fun you think it is though, it's more about how would the game fare under a competent team.
As for the comparisons with Rift... it's akin to saying "Well, this Ferrari has a brake problem too, just like my Kia!" It does not equate them, or the team that is behind either. Rift is full of developers with HEAVY industry experience, not a team of misfits who had a rich dad and begged him to let him make a video game so he could buy himself a job. That's what SV is, and what MO has manifested into.
Does MO have a good idea? Sure it does; granted I take some odds with a bit of the execution but in the end, I think it's a good concept. The problem with games like Rift is that they are designed to be a bit unique and profitable. Strangely enough, their patcher worked first time. I was able to get into the game during beta and play without issue. That's what the nature of a beta should be -- playable. Do they have issues? Undoubtely. But their population is thousands of times bigger than SV, so they have to contend with a lot more harassment of their server and resources. SV has what, 200 players online at the most nowadays? And they've yet to ship a single patch without a flaw.
In the end like I said earlier, MO is not going to do better in the hands of a AAA team because the concept itself is flawed. Conceptually it's a nice idea on paper, but trying to make happen what they want in a programmatic sense like multiple hitboxes, prediction systems, housing, mounts, etc are not easy to do, and we see the results of that.
The problem is to make those components work as a whole, with all the depth that SV had promised, would take not only a AAA team, but a management team willing to make cuts to the game in order for it to be playable. The problem is that Henrik has no experience whatsoever, so EVERYTHING must go in, even though most of it is done half assed. That's why you have a half-assed game. And if you find it fun, have at it... but another dev team isn't going to help the situation any. MO is dying a slow death, and its lifespan will be directly tied to how long it takes daddy to realize that his son isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Comments
I am want to say this one more time. I don't think most people care about getting the disks. SV said they would do it and did not. They should at least come out and say they will not do it. There was thread after thread on the MO forums on this and each one was answered with a "we will get back to you".
I hate disks. . steam, D2D etc. are my best friends. . I can't keep a CD key around to save my life and everytime I reformat my PC it is a lot less work to grab digital donwload. I guess I am old fashioned though in thinking that companies should deliver what they said they would especially when it is something someone is pre-ordering based soley on their faith in the company! All they were selling at that point was a promise and they didn't deliver. Is it a major component. . not for me but still they need to address it. It just looks bad.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
originally MO's devs only planned a digital download version of MO. However due to constant requests by members of the forums for some form of special edition version they could by. The devs decided to make one that would be at 0 profit to them in the from of the limited edition version and the boxed version.
Near rleease the devs were pressured constantly by players who demanded their boxed versions sending out regardless of being able to play the game via digital dl early, resulting in a version that was not compatible on release for the first 1 month. it took 1 month for the devs to make the disc version compatible.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I know it doesn't, I'm not a noob, as I've said I have played for a couple months. It wasn't just me it happened to either, I know about 4 or 5 other people it happened to aswell.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
So you consider a quest object spawning above player or twitchy camera for another a "deep flaw"? I asked for game breaking bugs, not for minor stuff like one player having issues to connect, that's in any game. But I don't see Rift turning off some major feature or making game unplayable for everyone during whole weekend because of bugged spell or broken patch, do I? Shrug, if MO had that sort of "deep flaws" as Rift having, it would be a joy to play, so I stand correct so far. While all games have their minor issues, MO takes the top atm with it's unstability.
Heh, I did ask to put aside personal preferences for sandbox or themepark aside when comparing, didn't I? I can't deny that MO is innovative (although their design approach is one of worst Ive seen, but that is personal opinion), nor that it tries to break away from the WoW clones. But the topic wasn't about it being innovative or not, was. Sorry for short reply, but there is nothing to discuss really since I do agree with most in your post, despite it not being original topic.
Well, when I said that, I was thinking more of the constant d/c's, crashes, desync, and unplayable lag that RIFT players have been experiencing very recently, as linked below the youtube links. Again, I'm sympathetic for the guys over at RIFT, I know how common it is for people to blow problems out of proportion on forums and on youtube, please don't think I'm being critical of that team, just as I don't think it's fair to be critical of SV (bringing us wildly back on topic!)
It's a matter of scale... How many people have played RiFT in the last few months? 500k? 1 Mil? I honestly donot know, but what I do know is that if the entire MO playerbase shifted to RiFT it wouldn't even be a blip on their screen...
So yes... number of complaints and issues is directly proportional to the number of players. If I have 99% success rate with customers that would be pretty good. If 1% of my population is 10,000 that's still an awful lot of people not happy.
If my population of subscribers is 2000 and only 500 complain... that's a much... MUCH worse rate.
Trying to compare the polish of MO and RiFT just makes for a silly argument as you are picking the wrong target. RiFT was one of the most polished games to release in recent memory. Mortal was one of the least, by their own admission. And BTW... one of these days fans need to realize that if something sucks.. it sucks.. it doesn't matter if game X also sucks because of the same reason.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I agree, except I don't think it just LOOKS bad. I think it IS bad... horrendous actually. And shady stuff like this is exactly what separates SV from most normal companies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah, RIFT is absolutely a polished game, I said that in my first RIFT-related post. It still has problems with desync, constant crashing, unplayable lag, etcetcetc.
So now you're saying that an AAA game still has a slew of gamebreaking bugs, but the more players a game has the more marginilized the bugs are... in which case, it seems the only thing that differentiates an AAA game from it's AA, A, B, and C bretheren is it's marketting department.
As to why I'm bringing RIFT into it... this discussion is about SV being replaced by a 'AAA' team, and I was thinking "wtf is a AAA team"... now I know anyway, but this certainly wasn't off-topic, this was just my way of determining what people were talking a bout... apparently, they're talking about marketting.
The graphics and surface of the game may have been polished. The game as a whole was very rough and bug ridden. Notice the immense number of buf fixes in their 3 patches.
People expecting what they paid for!!!! (Discs) What is the world coming to?!!!?!!!?!
Please re-read the green quote from you.
Then please re-read the red quote from you.
You are arguing with yourself apparently as those are mutually exclusive comments (an absolutely polished game by definition does not contain a "slew of gamebreaking bugs"). Please stop trying to compare the quality and completeness of RiFT with MO. It is IMHO a silly argument to even try and make and apparently at least 1/2 of you (green quote) agrees with me. Talk all you want about subjective differences such as "I prefer MO to RiFT's WoW-like gameplay",(I decided to skip the game myself) but trying to compare the quality/polish and bug prevalence is just plain silly and 99.9% of the folks here will instantly recognise that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Wait... you said RIFT was polished, and you said that after seeing my list.... Do you not believe those RIFT bugs are real, or are you mis-using your own definition of the word?
Rift is one of the most polished games to be released.. not sure why your getting all those disconnect problems.. well any of it tbh.. i've been playing for several months.. and i don't get them.. maybe its because i play on the EU servers? either way.. for me.. they don't seem to exist.
Yes, like any AAA game Rift has and had minor bugs. This is expected and there is no way around it due to the nature of programing.
Though you can't use this kind of stuff to defend MO. The level of issues MO has been plauged with isn't on par with AAA games, it's not even on par with indie games like DarkFall. MO is alone in it's flaws because of the frequency and the severity, the only other MMO to have this much of an issue that I can think of may be Dark and Light but even that one may have been in better shape.
In any case comparing the bugs and crap in other MMO's to the bugs and crap in MO is like comparing a paper cut and missing an arm. Sure both bleed, hurt and etc. but come on, they aren't comparable.
This is something that critics need to realize - that just because an individual or group of individuals thinks a game "sucks" doesn't mean that it's the "truth". As hard as it may be to understand, it's still nothing more than an opinion, not a fact. It is possible for one person to like something that another person doesn't.
Of course, statements such as the one quoted above are invalid on its face. If someone is a "fan" of something, that generally means that they like it, and probably don't think it "sucks". Why people persist in trying to paint fans as somehow either deluding themselves (i.e. they think they like it, but they really don't), or being deceptive (i.e. they don't really like it, but are just saying they do), is beyond me.
I like MO. I think it's a fun game to play. I believe SV will stick with the game, and should because their vision for the game is better than anything I've seen in a long time. There's no law that's prevented other companies, including the "AAA" developers, from creating such a game. They've just lacked the vision and will to do so.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Is Darkfall better or worse compared to MO?
I always wanted to play MO after i played the Beta, it was lots of fun but now i hear so many negative things about MO.
Also Darkfall seems to have hit the jackpot, i remember it being mentioned a lot and being popular for a while. Is that still the case? I also played Darkfall during its beta and it was also awesome but yeah then i heard of MO which was suppost to be better lols.
Perhaps you misread the intent of the post. I was not discussing "opinions", I was discussing facts. You can objectively look at bugs and polish if you have experienced both games. I am speaking to the repeated fallback with some folks that it's OK that feature XYZ is broken because there is at least one other game that has the same feature broken too!
That's just hogwash. Fans have to stop trying to justify BROKEN or outright MISSING things because some other game did the same thing. That is the never-ending lowing of the bar which has lead us to the sorry state of what we accept from companies today.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Exactly. And most folks will immediately understand that the argument attempting to be made above is just silly...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
definitely.. after watching the youtube video's .. waste of time that was btw.. came to the conclusion that most of it was down to problems with peoples computers, some of them were definitely in dire need of a graphic upgrade (always make sure to look at the minimum requirements for games!) as for the forum posts about the disconnects.. i think the only thing that can really be obtained from those.. is that a few people were getting disconnects.. which as another forum writer answered, is something thats outside of Trion's control anyway.. people will always be at the mercy of their ISP.. though.. have to say.. it looks like some of the people went to pretty extreme lengths to try and make those video's look at least a little convincing.. pointless tbh.. but.. all beside the point anyway.. nobody is forcing anyone to play MO.... the problems with it are fairly well documented and its a work in progress still.. if it was a finished product then i'd be more concerned..
I think this proves the point rather well. It's easy to mine problematic information from an official site, wave it around, scream about it as much as possbile on other web sites, mischaracterize the severity, and blow it out of proportion. The same thing happens with MO frequently.
I'm not going to claim that MO is as polished as RIFT, because it's not. It does have problems with bugs, as well as some other shortfalls that need to be corrected.
On the positive side, MO is also not a soulless, more-of-the-same carbon copy themepark, devoid of anything approximating innovation or a unique vision. Unfortunately, RIFT is the type of simplistic, derivative game we've come to expect from AAAs these days. At least Trion was able to create a decent clone of other games, because most of the other AAA developers haven't even been capable of that.
The sandbox crowd is a niche audience. Major develpers, like Trion, are looking to grab the maximum amount of cash possible. As a result, it's unlikely that any AAA company would attempt to make an MMO like Mortal.
Lastly, RIFT has not been representative of AAA games in the last 5 years. DCUO has been a miserable failure on the PC, for reasons ranging from bugs and exploits to an extreme lack of content. FFXIV might be the worst MMO to ever launch - terrible on every level other than graphical quality. Hell, look at APB - a lobby game masquerading as a P2P MMO, so poorly designed, infinitely exploitable, and grossly mismanaged that it died in 79 days. The "greatness" of the AAA game is a laughable fallacy.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
There is no greatness claimed for AAA MMO's. The only thing AAA even means is that it has a larger budget and a large as well as hopely experienced team working on it. Being backed by the money has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages.
Indie doesn't mean unique either, DFO and MO both struck out to clone UO as much as they could while improving graphics and combat and then throwing there own flare on to things. Indie just means someone without the large budget and large team. Being free from the chains of those suits with the money has it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages.
Now it's sad that you wen't on to bash things like APB, DCUO and FFXIV etc. While they may be flops, the problem is they've all done much better than MO lol. Had fewer bugs, more players, etc. So bringing up the fact that even the worst the AAA sector has to bring to the table is better than MO in what ever means you wish to measure success probably isn't the best idea for an MO supporter.
The point of this thread is whether or not MO might do better under a different developer, including a AAA developer. Your points reinforce the fact that being under a different develper would not guarantee it would be better.
Identifying the horrific status of other supposed AAA games further proves the point that other developers, including the major ones, is no guarantee of superior performance. Quite the opposite is more often the case, as is evidenced by the record-setting death of APB. The death of a game isn't anything to be happy about, and I'm glad fans of the game have another chance with Reloaded, but it's laughable to think that a game actually being bad enough to die so quickly is better than the still surviving MO.
MO is a niche game that will likely appeal to only a small subset of the overall MMO community. I think that was pretty well understood at the very beginning by anyone with any knowledge whatsoever of the MMO space. The major developers go for mass appeal, and the big, "WoW killer" money. I don't think that was ever SV's intent - they were rather trying to carve out a sustainable niche in the space, and provide a type of game sorely lacking to fans of the sandbox sub-genre.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
And I don't argue with that. MO can be good fun, etc etc. But is it a well made game? No. I am able to look past my dislike for SV (Note, SV, not MO as game) and admit that it can be fun to play. Yet I also am critical and realize it is really buggy, unpolished and overall crappy design/development wise. That does not make it any less fun to play for certain individuals none the less.
I think we agree that there are definitely some rough edges in the game that SV still needs to polish, though we might disagree on the overall impact that roughness has on the game. Regardless, I appreciate your candor and thoughtful opinions.
That's not always the case here, with this or any other game. There are those who go to great lengths to sift through the official MO forums to find and attempt to publicize only the negative issues, or spin information in a uniformly negative way. Does that sound like an objective or credible way of informing others, especially when you realize how easy it is to find negative posts on any forum? That's not just a problem here - it appears to be the general nature of forums.
While we agree that MO still needs work, I think that the problems the game has are routinely exaggerated for dramatic or sensationalistic effect. Additionally, I think the fact that the game has gotten better overall since launch is largely ignored. No, it's still not perfect, but it's also not as bad as some intentionally try to make it sound. SV has been improving the game - perhaps not as quickly as any of us would like - but it is getting better.
Improving is a good thing, as there really aren't any other games out there that provide the same experience it does.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Rough edges is an understatement. When you haven't shipped a *single* patch that didn't break other things, that's not indicative of something that is a 'rough edge', it's indicative of something that shows that your programming skill is atrocious. Not to mention, that the CORE component to patch the game, was made by a FAN. The development team couldn't even muster up a decent patcher that does difference based patching, even if you put aside the P2P part of it.
As for negative issues, I think that you have full rights to enjoy MO. Nobody really denies this, and if you find it appealing then there's nothing wrong with that. We haven't been talking about how much fun you think it is though, it's more about how would the game fare under a competent team.
As for the comparisons with Rift... it's akin to saying "Well, this Ferrari has a brake problem too, just like my Kia!" It does not equate them, or the team that is behind either. Rift is full of developers with HEAVY industry experience, not a team of misfits who had a rich dad and begged him to let him make a video game so he could buy himself a job. That's what SV is, and what MO has manifested into.
Does MO have a good idea? Sure it does; granted I take some odds with a bit of the execution but in the end, I think it's a good concept. The problem with games like Rift is that they are designed to be a bit unique and profitable. Strangely enough, their patcher worked first time. I was able to get into the game during beta and play without issue. That's what the nature of a beta should be -- playable. Do they have issues? Undoubtely. But their population is thousands of times bigger than SV, so they have to contend with a lot more harassment of their server and resources. SV has what, 200 players online at the most nowadays? And they've yet to ship a single patch without a flaw.
In the end like I said earlier, MO is not going to do better in the hands of a AAA team because the concept itself is flawed. Conceptually it's a nice idea on paper, but trying to make happen what they want in a programmatic sense like multiple hitboxes, prediction systems, housing, mounts, etc are not easy to do, and we see the results of that.
The problem is to make those components work as a whole, with all the depth that SV had promised, would take not only a AAA team, but a management team willing to make cuts to the game in order for it to be playable. The problem is that Henrik has no experience whatsoever, so EVERYTHING must go in, even though most of it is done half assed. That's why you have a half-assed game. And if you find it fun, have at it... but another dev team isn't going to help the situation any. MO is dying a slow death, and its lifespan will be directly tied to how long it takes daddy to realize that his son isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.