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Itemization - Enough Already
yewsef
Member CommonPosts: 335
If I have slept since 2001 and woke up today and then play 5 random MMORPGs which were released in the last 7 years I'd kill myself.
Itemization.... What happened?
Why is Itemization in ALL MMORPGs been Diabloized? (Diablo 2 system, level based Items). Why is that?
Why is it so systematic? with obvious algorethmatic pattern? Why every MMORPG use this crappy system?
What's up with Blue and Purple Items? Where Blue means +1 extra stats and Purple +2 extra stats? and always like that?
Why is itemization happening way too fast that I no longer feel I've achieved anything? Quests Reward excellent items now adays that I dont even care for Dungeon drops. Why am I litered with Green items which servers no one except maybe 10% of the population because everyone by mid level will be fully geard with Rare (blue) or better items. So, all what you get is more bag micromanagement.
What happened? Seriously?
Back in EQ items had no levels (pre 2001, pre SoL). Some items that are dropped by level 20 monsters are still viable even at level 50. The Water Breathing Earing (which had NO stats whatsoever, maybe 1 AC) was an essential item for Kedge Keep raid. There were no patterns.. the items were individually designed. The Shadow Knight armor that dropped from Cazic Thule? had decent stats (leggings had +10 str? Vambraces +8 STA...) completely random... kept me good for a long time and cost me hours collecting the materials (like 20-40 hours play time) and all my money to make. Traveling and trading and selling my soul to Innoruuk. But I EARNED it.
Weapons weren't easy to upgrade but when you do upgrade them you feel you've achieved something big.
I think a healthy item achievement process should be more than 8 hours of game play per one item and not less. If I get an upgrade once every 2 hours that's just... too soon for me to get bored of my old items let alone to be hoping for a better one. They don't feel special anymore, I don't read the items name anymore because they are auto generated. "Stupid Axe of the Monkey", "Superior Spear of the Imbecile"... prefixes and suffixes meaning more of that stats or more of that level of this item... Boring. Good items shouldn't drop from trash monsters, this is not Lottery, this is a Role Playing Game. A Schmuck should never drop the Sword of Doom. The Sword of Doom belongs to the owner of Sword of Doom, not Skeleton001. Whether the owner would give yout he sword voluntarily (because you did him a big favor) or involuntarily (you smacked his face).
Where did Fungus Tunic go? When someone was shouting "Fungus Tunic for sale" and everyone gets wet dreams of twinking a Troll Shadow Knight with it.
What happened to Cloak of Flames? What happend to Circlet of Shadow(s) *wink* *wink*... what happened to Flowing Black Silk Sash? or JBoots!
What happened to those bad ass items that were hard to get and you had to work your ass to get. Everything is too trivial now.. too easy.. too fast and too similar.
Enough already.........
Comments
Getting gear and managing gear became a mini-game all by itself. People rather expect it. It gives people something to brag about...a trophy. People like trophies. Game companies want to give people what they think people want.
I'd like another solution, but I'm not sure what. Maybe The Secret World will get it right...your gear is just for appearance and your stats are determined by something else. Then you can collect stat enhancing items, but keep your gear looking the way you want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think what you're really complaining about is the fact that there are level restrictions on items. So that you can't twink a level 10 ranger out with dual lamentations
.
Further, I agree that some items in EQ definitely meant more, but that's because they were a massive pain in the ass to get. I just don't know that having to literally camp a MOB for an entire WEEK just to get a CHANCE of him dropping an item is worth the feeling that you get from getting said item.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I agree with you. However, I came to the conclusion that MMO's need to make $$$. The way they make $$$ is to keep a boatload of people subscribed. When I say boatload, I mean Call of Duty numbers. People who have never even heard of EQ, UO, and Asherons Call are their target market. Back in the day games like UO and EQ were experiments. A group of gamers made the game for fun. For the sake of gaming. Passion. They had no clue idea that the right game could bring in 11 million subscribers. Now, MMO's are nothing but a business model. The good teams are bought out by $$$ suits $$$ and are told to leave their creative thinking at home. Instead, bring your pie charts, WoW cliff notes, and Red BUULLL.
Awesome items (our way) require patience and hard work. Patience is something 99% of the "new breed" of players don't have. They move on to the next thing or CoD if things get stagnant for more than a few hours. They need to be hand held through a never ending treadmill that constantly feeds them phat lewtz. Almost like a machine that pumps out colored items.
Immersion is sadly broken by micro-transactions, Mr. T TV spots, and the catering to the console kids.
It's sad but true. No need to argue.
Why would anyone brag about this "trophy" when every Joe and his dog has it?
I never said in my post "I don't want gear" and I never said "I want gear to be for appearance and progression would be by enhancement" (a.k.a CoH). I'd rather have WoW system than an enhancement system like you suggested.
All what I was saying in summary is.
Remove the systematic item design (the pattern you see.. is this hard to understand?) am I the only one who see the obvious patterns in these items? (level 1 +1 sta, Level 2 +2 sta...etc) something like that. This, must go. We need INDIVIDUALLY designed items, I gave examples like EQ items (if your only gaming experience is 2003+ then you might not understand).
Also, gear achievement should be earned and not given out like candy so the "trophy" would be even more valuable.
I think that the "epic" top level gear in games like WoW that require weeks upon weeks of raiding to get count as "trophies" as you specify.
It's just that the "leveling" gear doesn't really mean anything.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You're right about level restriction, I didn't mention that. It is also a part of why Itemization sucks. I don't care about balance issues, we don't play a game to be balanced we play a game to be fun. If someone earned the Cloak of Flame and used it for his alt then good for him. Proof how people love to twink is WoW's BG Twinks (the level 29, 39 and 49 twinks).
But in EQ gear is not everything because your "skill" still needs improvement and of course there's a damage cap. So, thank you for reminding me about Level Restriction which was also a late invention. But I can compromise with level restriction as long as the points I discussed in my OP is addressed (a.k.a more individually designed item.. no more systematic itemization which makes ALL levle 30 items trivialized by level 35) there's no "character" in items anymore. They are just +1 more stat than the one which is one level lower than them.
That's the sad story. But last time I checked every game that copied this Itemization system failed. Vanguard, AoC, Warhammer, and many others. I think it's a myth that people want fast rewards. Fast rewards can prove one thing, people leaving in 2-3 months looking for a new MMORPG, which is sadly the new MMORPG business model.
Yewsef is spot on, this along with many other aspects of the mmo's of the past 7-8 years have
become stagnant with no inovation & to much watered down crap, player levels, item levels,
linear 'click & go' crafting, restrictive landscapes & so forth.
Theres just to many games have that WOW stench, boring, linear themepark 'hold ya hand' crap.
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
I quit WoW just after the BC. My friend who worked hard for his full BWL (or MC?) gear for months and months of raid farming.. just after the expansion was released... his gear was equalized by some Quest Green armor which I've managed to do in a few hours. Now tell him that what he got was worth while.
Power Creep is rampant in recent games. Developers really need to slow down. I remember in EQ when I felt good "upgrading" my weapon from a 4/30 to 4/26 (which means it's 0.4 seconds faster now).
WoW is a disaster in terms of Gear Progression. It's all trivialized eventually. In EQ gear stays good for a long while. Not only because of how the mechanics work for that game but also for the uniqueness of some items. I havne't played EQ for awhile because it was mutated by I bet you Cleric Epic 1.0 is probably still a must have for raiding clerics. That's an item released on late 1999 which is STILL useful. I know for sure it was useful back in 2005 and we still went to finish our guild's clerics Epics because it was useful.
Things like that do not exist in modern MMORPGs.
Well said!
@OP
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you might be confused about WoW's itemization.
Green items, which are only uncommon, are generated by computer. So you have the "of the bandit" which raises three stats, and "of the soldier" which raises some other three. This is not a problem for me, and I don't know why it would be for you. These are the generic drops. For most people, they're probably trash. But for people looking for a particular kind of weapon, it's easy to put in "of the bandit" in the auction house. They have some value for people still leveling, but that's it.
Rare and Epic items, the blues and purples, aren't named automatically, and these would drop from bosses. I haven't played WoW in over a year, but I can still think of a few named ones I coveted (though not well, so maybe they are a little too common/interchangeable). These are the equivalent of your FBSS or Sword of Ykesha.
On one hand it seems like you want that random fisherman's earring from level 20 to be valuable, but on the other, you don't want the Kang the Decapitator sword to be a random world drop.
Then again, I haven't played WoW in over a year so maybe they sucked any soul it once had out of it completely and everything is named by computer now.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Yep, I agree about the power creep. I see that as a huge issue.
Modern MMORPGs have a "wash, rinse, repeat" design philosophy with expansion packs. They want you to spend weeks raiding to get uber item X, only to make uber item X obsolete when an expansion comes out and make you have to do it ALL OVER AGAIN.
I've typically viewed this as a problem with leveling and not itemization, but I can see where you could view this as an itemization problem as well. They are inextricably tied together I suppose, and I guess that's one of your main points.
By tying items so closely to levels you are basically forced to make awesome items obsolete whenever a player levels up enough.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I like power creep. The problem imo is the approach wow took. Vanilla had 60 levels, but TBC only had 10. If they had planned ahead and made TBC go to level 120, then they could have made the T items last longer.
T1 could last up to level 75
T2 could last up to level 85
T3 could last up to level 100
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
DOOM, Diablo and Diablo 2 happened.
Seriously. Blizzard discovered that the rats will keep pushing the feeder bar forever, chasing the 0.05 % upgrades. Even if they're just randomly-created gear with just one stat point higher, 3 points more damage per hit.
The other MMO makers took this Diablo lesson to heart, and seeing how well it worked, quickly followed suit.
It even makes psychological sense, a steady stream of quickly-realized short term goals is much more addictive than getting one large long-term one. If you have to upgrade that weapon twenty times to get the (total) 10% upgrade, that works better on gamers than one long-term reward that seems so very far away.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The point is not to explain all the details of MMORPGs itemization in one post I was assuming people who know these games doesn't need extra explanation. I also don't have to be very precise about everything if the general idea is my aim and not the specifics. Which is the current itemization system is boring and I explained why.
It's true there are Epic items unique to specific bosses in WoW also there were World Drops Epic Items too. My point is the "general" rule for WoW and the like (Diablo 2 system of itemization invention) is that it follows a "balanced" mathematical formula. Remember last time I played WoW was years ago so don't expect me to be very specific, I dont have to be specific. So, an Epic item in these games have 5 stats + special effect most of the time. Blue item has 4 stats. Green item has 3 stats. That's the rule, it's systematic and it has pattern. A Green Item of level 20 will always be replaced by a Green item level 25. There's nothing special about every piece of gear they don't have any character. The pattern is too obvious and too boring. The frequency and availability of these items are too annoying. Why do we have to have "Trash" green items, for what reason? Just more bag micromanagement.
Blizzard thinks if the player doesn't get something in 2 hours then they are doing something wrong. Fact is running a dungeon in Rift I ended up with 5+ green trash not only it made gear look boring and unrewarding it also bothered me with a lot of bag micromanagement which is a lame game design. Don't you agree that an item or a piece of armor would be more valuable if they are harder to achieve? Do you think if we increase the frequency of which an item might drop would be a healthy approach to MMORPGs. Instead of having 5% chance a trash monster dropping a green item.. remove that completely. Let the players seek item upgrades by killing harder monsters. The trash mobs should only drop trash otherwise it would be a lottery. I remember looting an Epic Item which sells for a lot of gold in WoW just because I was lucky enough to kill a random critter.
So, we have two problems. Ease and Frequency of acquiring an item/gear and the un-individualized nature of itemization.
In EQ items had no pattern. You get a +3 STR earing and the other earing has +9 WIS. There are no "levels" or formulas. That made adventures more exciting because you don't expect what you're getting. In WoW, if I am fighting level 40 monsters in a dungeon I can tell what exactly what's the number of +stat is going to be because level 40 monster drop level xx item and level xx item has +N to stat. If it was green, then two stats. If it was blue then 3 stats. Is this exciting to you? Is this fun? Should it replace the older itemization system? I think it's boring and my eyes bleed everytime I see this system. I just know everything about the game from the very moment I realize it adapted this crappy itemization system. I can imagine the level max items without even seeing them. No surprise value.
Just more EQ examples. There are NO items/gear in EQ that gives you what Fungi Tunic gives you. Imagine the first time someone looted that Fungus Boss (his name escapes me) and looting the Fungi Tunic... That's what I call an adventure. That item has character. Almost all EQ items (classic) were random and "individually" designed. Which is the way to go for itemization. But I guess devs are too lazy to do that, which beats me because nothing is more exciting to me than designing an item.
That is true and hence why I enjoyed Diablo 2. It is good for specific kind of games not an MMORPG or let me rephrase that... not ALL MMORPGs. Now, every MMORPG follow this mentality. Fast reward, fast upgrade.. keep them entertained. Do you think this is what keeps MMORPG players in a game? I think not.
However, I do think it keeps the non-MMORPG players in the game. Because those are the not very patient players. I talk to you from personal experience. I know many family members who are not only not interested in MMORPGs... they were never gamers, ever. They became "hard core"? WoW players on 2005-present day. Where I and those who enjoyed MMORPG prior to WoW find it hard to digest this game. We did play it... despite its many flaws (not only itemization). We played it because everyone wanted to play it, not because the itemzation was good.
But I couldn't do this for a long time anyway I quit just after BC.
The point is, it's true what you say for the non-gamers because they are not into this to experience a world of adventure. They are here to "game" and there's nothign wrong with that. Let them have fun. However, my problem is... why is it that every MMORPG now follow these footsteps. Shouldn't we get something different, shouldn't we have some vareity, don't I have the rights to complain about and criticize this shallow itemization system which is forced on us by every MMORPG we play?
There are a lot of problems in the modern MMORPG genre and many people are complaining. I agree with you, it's not only itemization. But they are too many that one cannot list them down in one topic without having their head exploding because of it.
I am with you all the way regarding level-restriction for items. I am a person who hates "balance" in itemization and when I say "balance" I mean the obvious kind of balance which restricts creativity. I am with a balanced game which approaches things indirectly without using restrictive game mechanics to "fix things" which eases their job balancing their content (like making items have level restriction). They prefer to use this easy "get out of jail" ticket instead of being creative. "What this item is too strong for a level 4 monk, add level restriction."
I prefer damage/stats cap over level restriction. But that's just me. Also, I am not a fan of Bind on Equip design. But I understand why this is essential in a game like WoW or any instance heavy game. Because items are too easy to attain if they make them Tradable then things will get messy. But that's another dimension of why this itemization system is even more wrong because it destroyed Trading and Item Value. Because it's BoE (Bind on Equip) it lost its value completely once equipped. If you make items extremely hard to attain and make them tradable then you create a community of traders. Which was a big part of EQ. Your Sword of Ykesha was your Sword of Ykesha, wasn't just "Random Item 001 which you will sell to vendor eventually". No your SoY was for you to use and then to sell. It had value and your investment camping it didn't go to waste.
But this system is impossible with instanced dungeon because everyone now can loot any boss easily. There are infinite number of Boss X because every group can summon him on demand. While in a non-instanced dungeon the boss is either there or not and if he is there then there's one copy of him. So, the amount of item X he has cannot exceed a controlled number of drops per day or per week depending on how you set his respawn timer. Which would make his loot table valuable and which make hunting dungeons much more exciting.
I don't understand why you care about green trash if it's trash. What if instead it was just a "rusty" or "fine steel" trash sword from EQ? If it's green you can vendor it, or you can disenchant it, or maybe someone who is leveling might actually use it. You're looking at green items like they're magic items that are too easy to obtain, but you should probably be looking at them like they're worthless and only focus on the blues and purples.
I agree that a systematic itemization system might be boring, but it's the price you pay for balancing and (I think) making the majority of players happy. In WoW there is a progression from leveling -> dungeon -> heroic dungeon -> raid#1 -> raid#2, etc. If items were haphazardly itemized, then you'd have players be upset, asking why they're running the heroic dungeon when the dungeon loot was better.
As far as random mobs dropping purples, it probably shouldn't happen, I agree with you.
I think if your game has only a few stats, then the systematic increases might be boring, but if there are a lot of them you're still not sure what you're going to get. I remember one trinket from Ulduar which had like +50 Spell Hit on it, which is a ton, especially for a stat that can be hard capped. This itemization can be done in a way where you know something will be statistically more powerful, but you're not quite sure what stats it will have, or whether all those stats will be useful to you. I remember knowing there were two healing maces in Karazhan, and knowing I would have preferred the one with mp5. The one with spirit still would have been an upgrade, but I would have only taken it if nobody else needed it.
The problem with items with unique effects is that you really run the risk of them being either necessary or useless. Like the pre-nerf Circlet of Shadow. If it's the only thing in the game that does that, then it's a must have for any Shadow Knight. Or the Fungi Tunic. Fantastic twinking item, but not a great high end item. I'm trying to think of a totally useless unique effect item, maybe the post-nerf Circlet of ShadowS, heh.
I also think WoW does have some unique effect items, but they're rarer. For instance, in Karazhan again, the one boss dropped a shaman totem that increased the strength of their chain heal spell. No other item in the game did that and it took me forever to get it. The magister's terrace dungeon dropped a trinket that was highly coveted by tanks because it had kind of a unique proc.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
All that for a "man I miss the old days post". All that stuff is still there, you just don't know what the names are anymore because you are out of touch. There are still items to twink with. There are still epics and rare items that high level toons go for. You're just feeling nostalgic, there there now.
A question for you. You have a problem with item levels being +1 and +2, but what, is it supposed to be completely random so you bust your ass for a super epic item that ends up being worse than a lvl 5 item? Yah ok, because that won't have you back here b---in about that instead...
PS. You ask for one game with a different system, with random variables - It's called City of Heroes. Go check it out. Also guild wars has "perfect" items as well. It's out there and not really as awesome as you're remembering it.
Further reading some of your other posts you seem a little disilusional. Level caps on items and being able to fight bosses when you want is bad. Sitting around camping a mob is ok though because you "earned" it. To each his own I guess.
IMHO it isnt that items are too random, it is that items are not random enough.
I liked the asheron's call system where (while they did have SOME designed equipment) most items were 100% randomly generated. You could find an amuli legs(coverage abdomen, upper legs, lower legs) that was AL 180 workmanship 4 good resistances to fire and acid but poor to cold, with Major Endurance, Minor Fire Ward, and 5 random spells. Those random spells could be used to put together a completely buff free set of equipment. Otherwise people would want all the majors covered. They might want jet black amuli with a matching vein color.
Thing was there were 30 different ways that an item could be a good item including just being high workmanship in a salvagable metal to be used as tinkering material. What is junk to me could be the item that fits the hole in your suit or that matching color you looked for for ages.
You never knew what you would get out of the system. Unlike current systems where all you really need to know is "of valour" the rarity color the level and the slot and you know exactly how good it is.
But back to specially designed asheron's call equipment -- some items like the focusing stone, or GSA, or gaerlon's dagger, or the slashing mace(can't remember its name) WERE named items gained in specific ways. Those items tended to be special and often usable at any level because they had layered bonuses that stacked with other items, or did things other items couldnt (mace was pierce and bash, but there was a special mace that did slashing damage). The foucus stone had a big bonus to casting skill for buffs but a big hit to your mana. It was mainly there to help melee characters cast slightly better spells when self-buffing.
Every item does NOT need to be specially designed. Random items can be good occasionally, and in ACs case -- can be the best items in the game -- there WERE triple major items. No you probably would never find one, but the game gets weak when the items are just different quality bits of clay thrown into the proper mold at the right temperature (level).
1. Its the base of any MMO. "Okay im a healer that means i need a +Wisdom +Healing gear!"
"Okay now i hit 50, that means i gotta buy a lvl 50 item!" Or whatya mean? Diablo 2 is even better than MMOs in items, cause of cool runewords and set items that actually affects the gameplay.
2. Whats up with Pokemons getting stronger when they evolve?
Its just like that, the more rarer, the more stronger, or whatya mean?
3. Im asking it myself.
I remember once when dungeon items actually had an impact in the gameplay. Now everythings way too easy to get. It annoys me really much.
4. Toadstool liquid makes you rainbow?
5. -
6. Yes. Whats up with that, MMO devs? Why did it feel rewarding to get full Tal Rasha set while im just one of the crew when i get full raid items now?
Is MMO sadly going downwards? Every aspect of multiplayer game is better now. NOTICE: Diablo 2 is kinda dead and messed up now, im talking about the early Diablo 2 so dont compare nowadays MMOs to Diablo 2 right now.
Teamwork: Diablo 2.
D2: Create a game named "Act 2 questing" and full group.
MMO: QQ about doing this random quest, noone hears you. Maybe a lvl 60 that has nothing to do or if your lucky to be in a new MMO game, a player might join but most doesnt care, they can just solo it and so can you.
Cool set items: Diablo 2.
D2: Shining bear druid, oh my everyones like WTF.
WoW: Duh, im full raid but im not alone..
Rare items hard to get: Diablo 2. (It failed some years ago due to dupe.)
D2: OMFG you got SOJ?
WoW: Hmmm he got that staff that makes his cat burn but i dont care.
Dangerous world due to PvP: Diablo 2.
D2: Quest alone and the group kills you.
MMO: Noone cares about you. PvP zones are safe if theres no lvl 60s killing for boredoom.
PvP where every PvP target comes after you: Diablo 2.
D2: Join a all vs all PvP game, and you wont be safe.
WoW: Ten hordes questing and im a lonely alliance but they dont care.
Boss difficulty: Diablo 2 before items procced on high level bosses.
D2: Oh shit uber Diablo spawned and im just a necro:(
WoW: Okay just do this tact over and over and we down this boss.
Get to the highest level without the help of any player: Diablo 2, just kidding.
D2: For now, you have to quest for Baal runs.
In most MMOs, going alones a good option.
Hardest elites: Diablo 2. Actually im not counting champions in here but at the start of Diablo 2 LOD champion packs were a nightmare due to Ghostly, Possessed and why not take Fanatics that runs for 500% speed owning you up?
Now its 50-50. You can one shot champions in Diablo 2 and solo tank elites in most MMOs even as a mage.
Bosses scaring the crap out of you: Diablo 2. Who doesnt remember Diablos insane amount of life and ring of fire one shoting the group all the time?
Who doesnt remember when Baal sucked your mana to zero, teleported, cast a ice wave, summoning tentacles, copying himself and two shoting you? At the start of LOD that is.
WoW: Uh this boss will just attack the boss while some adds show up, just kite them and run behind this stone when he starts to flame, repeat till boss dies.
But, dont take me wrong. The parts where MMO completely owns Diablo 2 is guilds, unspammable skills, real PvP, battlegrounds, raids... uh just that.
Would be really great if they copied the awsomness from early Diablo 2 but kept the MMO bases such as a big world, guilds, AHs, mails etc and ofc skills that aint spammable and one shots any mob.
Yawn
Here is your answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber