I am always encouraged when a game looks at new ways to occupy players at level cap or provide an alternative sort of "end game." Of course, I've raided in EQ. EQ2, WoW and am kind of sick of it. lol.
While i'm glad theres optional items which sound great.
But when did a mmo ever force you to grind?
If you want to do better then yes you needed to grind but it wasn't like you log in and you must do this raid to continue playing..thats forcing.
Even in WoW if you wanted to, you could go into one of the towns buy a whole bunch of beer and just chug it down and talk to friends if you wanted to.
Just wanted to point this difference out. Nothing in MMOs forces you to do anything really. Now if you want to progress further into the game then you need to grind in other MMOs but it's never forced grind.
Anyway back on topic. i'm kinda in different to this. The only issue i have is retention, i don't like the skinner box idea anymore then anyone else, i just hope it's not a few weeks to max level, a few more to get the gear and then go...okay now what?
Although to be fair you do have the mini-games and other stuff, the biggest probelm i forsee is people have gotten used to progression, if they don't see it like in levels, getting better stats and such they may be disappointed, but it's a risk i suppose arenanet has to take.
Never know till you try and you do have to keep trying different stuff.
I believe what this thread is saying is; "Thank God I don't have to grind to see all the content."
You're not forced to see all the content in any game really, you can quit before you see the end. Its just in MMOs that you have to grind to see all the content and that is what people are happy about.
Well if thats the case won't i have to do all that optional content (which is basically grinding to some) to see all the content?
You don't get it.
The generic grind requires you to accomplish point A (gear up) in order to prepare for point B.
What he's saying is, in GW2 , you can accomplish point B without even bothering with point A. There is an option. That's the difference.
Another thing with what you said about Arenanet taking a risk in this progression - you must understand that their business model is different. Every thing is already paid for the instant you purchase the game. If they are disappointed, they can quit and save Arenanet the trouble with server load. They can play with what the game offers - enjoy it, hate, or not it is up to them. If they enjoy the core game, which Arenanet is aiming for, they will come back and purchase the expansion.
So there is going to be no raiding? No gear grind? Correct me if i am wrong, but do you not have to unlock your skills?
Wouldnt that mean the point of this game is a skill grind, finding as many skills as you can so you can have as many combinations as you can?
An mmo without a grind sounds like there is no progression.
I agree with you 100%, the way i see you guys like it is, okay i hit max level and then 20 minutes later i get my full gear that i will use for the rest of my 4 months until a new patch. I dont see that as fun, in fact it kind of ruins it atleast for me. What would be the point of leveling and then getting the best gear in the game with no effort? Woo im lvl 85 in WoW, i got my full raiding gear just by talking to npc's yay.. It's almost as a FPS game, you beat the single story mode then what? You replay it? oh wait theres pvp yayy... ill have fun with that for like a 2-3 weeks.
Yeah, I really feel like if the game has no progression then what would be the point? You might say "Oh but theres PVP!" Well if there isn't any progression in pvp either than it's just another pointless aspect, or a time waster. Usually you have to have some sort of grind. Otherwise it ends up being completely pointless.
So there is going to be no raiding? No gear grind? Correct me if i am wrong, but do you not have to unlock your skills?
Wouldnt that mean the point of this game is a skill grind, finding as many skills as you can so you can have as many combinations as you can?
An mmo without a grind sounds like there is no progression.
I agree with you 100%, the way i see you guys like it is, okay i hit max level and then 20 minutes later i get my full gear that i will use for the rest of my 4 months until a new patch. I dont see that as fun, in fact it kind of ruins it atleast for me. What would be the point of leveling and then getting the best gear in the game with no effort? Woo im lvl 85 in WoW, i got my full raiding gear just by talking to npc's yay.. It's almost as a FPS game, you beat the single story mode then what? You replay it? oh wait theres pvp yayy... ill have fun with that for like a 2-3 weeks.
So what do you want to do? Keep trying to get gear, to complete a raid only to need to go get more gear to complete that other raid?
That's not content, that's just repetition. If you want to go ahead and repeat a dungeon five times to get all the gear it gives, you can do that in GW2, it just won't make you better than anybody else.
People want to come in, play their game and not have to worry about stuff like it's their second job. They want to come in, relax and play with their friends at any time they feel like and this method let's people do that.
Like I said earlier, the secondary progression in GW2 is not the about the gear, its about the Traits and the Elite skills. If you can get all of those for at least one of your characters, you can say you've completed the game.
EDIT: Also why do people think level cap means that you've completed the game anyway. Can't content dictate whether you've completed the game or not? And another thing, this GW2 isn't like WoW, don't compare it to WoW.
And the final thing; When you go to the lower level areas of the game or even if you enter a lower level dungeon, you're automatically de-leveled to match the max level you can be for that dungeon or area. This means that no content, whether it be level 5 or level 50, will be irrelevant to you.
So there is going to be no raiding? No gear grind? Correct me if i am wrong, but do you not have to unlock your skills?
Wouldnt that mean the point of this game is a skill grind, finding as many skills as you can so you can have as many combinations as you can?
An mmo without a grind sounds like there is no progression.
I agree with you 100%, the way i see you guys like it is, okay i hit max level and then 20 minutes later i get my full gear that i will use for the rest of my 4 months until a new patch. I dont see that as fun, in fact it kind of ruins it atleast for me. What would be the point of leveling and then getting the best gear in the game with no effort? Woo im lvl 85 in WoW, i got my full raiding gear just by talking to npc's yay.. It's almost as a FPS game, you beat the single story mode then what? You replay it? oh wait theres pvp yayy... ill have fun with that for like a 2-3 weeks.
So what do you want to do? Keep trying to get gear, to complete a raid only to need to go get more gear to complete that other raid?
That's not content, that's just repetition. If you want to go ahead and repeat a dungeon five times to get all the gear it gives, you can do that in GW2, it just won't make you better than anybody else.
People want to come in, play their game and not have to worry about stuff like it's their second job. They want to come in, relax and play with their friends at any time they feel like and this method let's people do that.
Like I said earlier, the secondary progression in GW2 is not the about the gear, its about the Traits and the Elite skills. If you can get all of those for at least one of your characters, you can say you've completed the game.
Glad you said that, I wanted to say this, What game isnt repetitive? None all of them are, you can say that for every dam game in the world. FPS games, omg im killing ppl over over over its borrrring i want something newwww. Plus in WoW you dont have to grind your ass off in order to be good, Patches for WoW for new raids come out ever 3-4 months, what does that mean? If you do grind you ass off, you will find yourself sitting there with nothing to do, but guess what its YOUR fault. Instead do what most raiders do, get on for an hour do a dungeon get off, play another game if you want. Log on for raid day and thats it. They made patches long like that in order for "casual" gamers to finish all the content. The best guilds in the game complete all the content in 3 weeks even on hard modes. They make it long for those people that can't play 18 hours a day like they do.
Editing to your edit: I'm comparing it to WoW because everyone was whining about grinding in WoW, EQ etc. And i've only played WoW, so what else can i compare it to.
its not all about repeating a raid dungeon 5 times for gear its the fact of working together with 39 other players to dominate it and the dungeons r fun anyways thats why people keep doing them. That seperates people in the game is gear and if they figured something out to make people different then good for them im excited but if they have raids but gets you nowhere and someone else who doesnt commit to the game is just as powerful as that full blown raider then its gonna be a waste of time developing the raids or dungeons.
So there is going to be no raiding? No gear grind? Correct me if i am wrong, but do you not have to unlock your skills?
Wouldnt that mean the point of this game is a skill grind, finding as many skills as you can so you can have as many combinations as you can?
An mmo without a grind sounds like there is no progression.
I agree with you 100%, the way i see you guys like it is, okay i hit max level and then 20 minutes later i get my full gear that i will use for the rest of my 4 months until a new patch. I dont see that as fun, in fact it kind of ruins it atleast for me. What would be the point of leveling and then getting the best gear in the game with no effort? Woo im lvl 85 in WoW, i got my full raiding gear just by talking to npc's yay.. It's almost as a FPS game, you beat the single story mode then what? You replay it? oh wait theres pvp yayy... ill have fun with that for like a 2-3 weeks.
So what do you want to do? Keep trying to get gear, to complete a raid only to need to go get more gear to complete that other raid?
That's not content, that's just repetition. If you want to go ahead and repeat a dungeon five times to get all the gear it gives, you can do that in GW2, it just won't make you better than anybody else.
People want to come in, play their game and not have to worry about stuff like it's their second job. They want to come in, relax and play with their friends at any time they feel like and this method let's people do that.
Like I said earlier, the secondary progression in GW2 is not the about the gear, its about the Traits and the Elite skills. If you can get all of those for at least one of your characters, you can say you've completed the game.
Glad you said that, I wanted to say this, What game isnt repetitive? None all of them are, you can say that for every dam game in the world. FPS games, omg im killing ppl over over over its borrrring i want something newwww. Plus in WoW you dont have to grind your ass off in order to be good, Patches for WoW for new raids come out ever 3-4 months, what does that mean? If you do grind you ass off, you will find yourself sitting there with nothing to do, but guess what its YOUR fault. Instead do what most raiders do, get on for an hour do a dungeon get off, play another game if you want. Log on for raid day and thats it. They made patches long like that in order for "casual" gamers to finish all the content. The best guilds in the game complete all the content in 3 weeks even on hard modes. They make it long for those people that can't play 18 hours a day like they do.
No, not every game is repetitive. Every game has the potential to be repetitive but not all games are. MMOs of today, for the most part, put you in the cycle of; Complete Dungeon -> Fight for loot -> get all loot -> complete dungeon with said loot -> fight for loot in this dungeon to go complete the next dungeon and on and on and on.
FPS games, do this. Kill these guys, complete these objectives and move on to the next stage and its more dynamic because those objectives can vary and how you complete them can also vary. You don't have to kill one boss several times to get that one drop for that one piece of loot that you have to fight 4 other guys and 1 ninja looter for. You can move on to the next stage and there is nothing to hinder you except completing the objectives within the mission which is kind of how GW2 works.
There are plenty gear grinding mmo's hardcore and casual i may say.
GW2 for me will be doing all stuff what is has to offer, iam a pvp player and knowing GW1 had the most balanced pvp in any mmo ever created i know Anet will not disapoint me
And also the events will be worth checking out with my friends, will do 99% of them i think ^^
By the time iam bored iam sure expansion pack 1 will be around the corner :P And if not, well checking the game revieuws on whats comming out in 2011/2012 iam sure there is a triple A waiting for me.
BF3 Skyrim Diablo 3
Those 3 titles looks so damn promesing iam sure i wont get bored much this and the next year :P
So you are saying there won't be any grinding like there was in GW1? You may not have grinding raids to upgrade your gear, but you just grinding the same things over and over and over for other reasons. Such as different looking armor.
If you actually think that this won't be the exact same thing in gw2 as gw1, I think you are in for a surprise.
Now sure! You aren't grinding gear to stay competitive, that is one big difference. But you are still doing the same basic sort of grind for a slightly different reason.
I'm not concerned with the fashion grind if thats what your referring to.
Now sure! You aren't grinding gear to stay competitive, that is one big difference. But you are still doing the same basic sort of grind for a slightly different reason.
That's one heck of a big difference... i don't consider it grinding if its something I want to do, verses something I feel I have to go for in order to progress in the game or do anything new. Grinding is mostly referred to in a negative sense and probably what most people are referring to in this case.
If you're having fun it's not really grind, it's more, enjoying the game than "grinding"
Just pointing out the two different perspectives of the term.
I'm like-minded: It's a given for me that grind is NP (no point). So from there I see 2 alternatives to this in MMOs
a) GW2: No grind, accessible, actiony and quality in short bursts
b) A sandbox of some kind that takes <time> to learn/achieve things but allows creativity for the player and the opportunity for player-run communities and consequences of your actions eg even open pvp is the flip of player collaboratives it's to be reminded.
So if I can find either of these, I'll be a happy camper. Which is better, is more down to short or long view of your gaming time?
its not all about repeating a raid dungeon 5 times for gear its the fact of working together with 39 other players to dominate it and the dungeons r fun anyways thats why people keep doing them. That seperates people in the game is gear and if they figured something out to make people different then good for them im excited but if they have raids but gets you nowhere and someone else who doesnt commit to the game is just as powerful as that full blown raider then its gonna be a waste of time developing the raids or dungeons.
You say that it's not all about doing the same raid or dungeon over and over again for gear; They keep doing them because they are fun. But then you say that it is pointless to develop raids/dungeons if they do not give you gear to make you more powerful. A bit contradicting, no?
Why is it not okay to develop dungeons that are fun and just give cosmetic gear?
If something adds fun to the game, then I think it's worth it. I personally play games because they are entertaining and fun.
I used to like raiding a lot more until a lot of new 'methods' were developed by WoW players and started bleeding into other games. Has nothing to do with effectiveness or success rate either, but everything to do with attitude and problem solving.
It's like your not even playing, they just get the 'strat' from somewhere else, usually a write up or video, then basically spend hours on the game trying to copy it 1:1. No different from just watching the video and saying you did it as far as I'm concerned. Difference between actually playing a game of soccer and watching video of someone else and trying to reenact it. Or just copying someone elses crossword puzzle. Boring.
Problem is this is starting to bleed into grouping as well.
So there is going to be no raiding? No gear grind? Correct me if i am wrong, but do you not have to unlock your skills?
Wouldnt that mean the point of this game is a skill grind, finding as many skills as you can so you can have as many combinations as you can?
An mmo without a grind sounds like there is no progression.
I agree with you 100%, the way i see you guys like it is, okay i hit max level and then 20 minutes later i get my full gear that i will use for the rest of my 4 months until a new patch. I dont see that as fun, in fact it kind of ruins it atleast for me. What would be the point of leveling and then getting the best gear in the game with no effort? Woo im lvl 85 in WoW, i got my full raiding gear just by talking to npc's yay.. It's almost as a FPS game, you beat the single story mode then what? You replay it? oh wait theres pvp yayy... ill have fun with that for like a 2-3 weeks.
I disagree with both of you 100%.
It sounds to me, that your the type of players that don't enjoy the content of the game but rush to the end waiting for the game to start.
If you try that with Guild Wars 2, let me be the first to tell you YOUR DOING IT WRONG.
Yeah, I really feel like if the game has no progression then what would be the point? You might say "Oh but theres PVP!" Well if there isn't any progression in pvp either than it's just another pointless aspect, or a time waster. Usually you have to have some sort of grind. Otherwise it ends up being completely pointless.
Other than you know, its FUN.
Let me see, I play with my children because at the end of the day I get a lamborghini? Wrong.
I go to the beach because I am rewarded with money? Wrong
I do the things I enjoy because they are fun and enjoyable. PvP is a rush, its a blast. I don't need a bright new shiney to do it. You've been brainwashed via carrot on a stick mmos.
its not all about repeating a raid dungeon 5 times for gear its the fact of working together with 39 other players to dominate it and the dungeons r fun anyways thats why people keep doing them. That seperates people in the game is gear and if they figured something out to make people different then good for them im excited but if they have raids but gets you nowhere and someone else who doesnt commit to the game is just as powerful as that full blown raider then its gonna be a waste of time developing the raids or dungeons.
You say that it's not all about doing the same raid or dungeon over and over again for gear; They keep doing them because they are fun. But then you say that it is pointless to develop raids/dungeons if they do not give you gear to make you more powerful. A bit contradicting, no?
Why is it not okay to develop dungeons that are fun and just give cosmetic gear?
If something adds fun to the game, then I think it's worth it. I personally play games because they are entertaining and fun.
Trokam, lets take it a bit farther shall we,
Supermike, what happens if in WoW there was no more gear drops?
You said that people do it because its fun, then why is it raiders stop raiding when they have all the gear they want?
Yeah, kinda gotcha on that one.
Carrot on a stick zombies "MUST RAID DUNGEON 265TH TIME FOR PURPLES ZOMG!"
I used to like raiding a lot more until a lot of new 'methods' were developed by WoW players and started bleeding into other games. Has nothing to do with effectiveness or success rate either, but everything to do with attitude and problem solving.
It's like your not even playing, they just get the 'strat' from somewhere else, usually a write up or video, then basically spend hours on the game trying to copy it 1:1. No different from just watching the video and saying you did it as far as I'm concerned. Difference between actually playing a game of soccer and watching video of someone else and trying to reenact it. Or just copying someone elses crossword puzzle. Boring.
Problem is this is starting to bleed into grouping as well.
The problem here is that 90% of the encounters in most MMOs have only one way to be done. You cant invent new way cus there isnt any other possible. Everything else is exploiting. And I agree with you. The real fun is to find your way to complete a dungeon.
I used to like raiding a lot more until a lot of new 'methods' were developed by WoW players and started bleeding into other games. Has nothing to do with effectiveness or success rate either, but everything to do with attitude and problem solving.
It's like your not even playing, they just get the 'strat' from somewhere else, usually a write up or video, then basically spend hours on the game trying to copy it 1:1. No different from just watching the video and saying you did it as far as I'm concerned. Difference between actually playing a game of soccer and watching video of someone else and trying to reenact it. Or just copying someone elses crossword puzzle. Boring.
Problem is this is starting to bleed into grouping as well.
The problem here is that 90% of the encounters in most MMOs have only one way to be done. You cant invent new way cus there isnt any other possible. Everything else is exploiting. And I agree with you. The real fun is to find your way to complete a dungeon.
The point, mazut, is that Guild Wars 2 isn't going to be like that, because there is no set trinity of roles, and because dodging and evasion is an either/or proposition, not based on RNG.
Literally every single dungeon encounter in GW2 will be different based on your group makeup, the dynamic events occuring, and the random events that may or may not be triggered.
At any rate, GW2 really does not seem like the game for you, and that's fine. There are 298129321797 others.
It is so cool that so many people have played this game already and know so much about it. I mean we know that they could not be going off the hype machine. Those comments are never ever ever false.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
What I want from an MMO is a sense of adventure and good character creation. Guild Wars 2 seems to have that. I dont care for non stop pointless grinding and I hate pvp. A sense of progression is always nice too. but more than anything, i just like getting new stuff to make my character look and feel even cooler than before. I have to feed my creative side or else i get bored
Comments
I am always encouraged when a game looks at new ways to occupy players at level cap or provide an alternative sort of "end game." Of course, I've raided in EQ. EQ2, WoW and am kind of sick of it. lol.
You don't get it.
The generic grind requires you to accomplish point A (gear up) in order to prepare for point B.
What he's saying is, in GW2 , you can accomplish point B without even bothering with point A. There is an option. That's the difference.
Another thing with what you said about Arenanet taking a risk in this progression - you must understand that their business model is different. Every thing is already paid for the instant you purchase the game. If they are disappointed, they can quit and save Arenanet the trouble with server load. They can play with what the game offers - enjoy it, hate, or not it is up to them. If they enjoy the core game, which Arenanet is aiming for, they will come back and purchase the expansion.
I agree with you 100%, the way i see you guys like it is, okay i hit max level and then 20 minutes later i get my full gear that i will use for the rest of my 4 months until a new patch. I dont see that as fun, in fact it kind of ruins it atleast for me. What would be the point of leveling and then getting the best gear in the game with no effort? Woo im lvl 85 in WoW, i got my full raiding gear just by talking to npc's yay.. It's almost as a FPS game, you beat the single story mode then what? You replay it? oh wait theres pvp yayy... ill have fun with that for like a 2-3 weeks.
Yeah, I really feel like if the game has no progression then what would be the point? You might say "Oh but theres PVP!" Well if there isn't any progression in pvp either than it's just another pointless aspect, or a time waster. Usually you have to have some sort of grind. Otherwise it ends up being completely pointless.
Yeah I'm happy. If you're excited for GW2.. this is probably one of the reasons
So what do you want to do? Keep trying to get gear, to complete a raid only to need to go get more gear to complete that other raid?
That's not content, that's just repetition. If you want to go ahead and repeat a dungeon five times to get all the gear it gives, you can do that in GW2, it just won't make you better than anybody else.
People want to come in, play their game and not have to worry about stuff like it's their second job. They want to come in, relax and play with their friends at any time they feel like and this method let's people do that.
Like I said earlier, the secondary progression in GW2 is not the about the gear, its about the Traits and the Elite skills. If you can get all of those for at least one of your characters, you can say you've completed the game.
EDIT: Also why do people think level cap means that you've completed the game anyway. Can't content dictate whether you've completed the game or not? And another thing, this GW2 isn't like WoW, don't compare it to WoW.
And the final thing; When you go to the lower level areas of the game or even if you enter a lower level dungeon, you're automatically de-leveled to match the max level you can be for that dungeon or area. This means that no content, whether it be level 5 or level 50, will be irrelevant to you.
This is not a game.
Glad you said that, I wanted to say this, What game isnt repetitive? None all of them are, you can say that for every dam game in the world. FPS games, omg im killing ppl over over over its borrrring i want something newwww. Plus in WoW you dont have to grind your ass off in order to be good, Patches for WoW for new raids come out ever 3-4 months, what does that mean? If you do grind you ass off, you will find yourself sitting there with nothing to do, but guess what its YOUR fault. Instead do what most raiders do, get on for an hour do a dungeon get off, play another game if you want. Log on for raid day and thats it. They made patches long like that in order for "casual" gamers to finish all the content. The best guilds in the game complete all the content in 3 weeks even on hard modes. They make it long for those people that can't play 18 hours a day like they do.
Editing to your edit: I'm comparing it to WoW because everyone was whining about grinding in WoW, EQ etc. And i've only played WoW, so what else can i compare it to.
its not all about repeating a raid dungeon 5 times for gear its the fact of working together with 39 other players to dominate it and the dungeons r fun anyways thats why people keep doing them. That seperates people in the game is gear and if they figured something out to make people different then good for them im excited but if they have raids but gets you nowhere and someone else who doesnt commit to the game is just as powerful as that full blown raider then its gonna be a waste of time developing the raids or dungeons.
No, not every game is repetitive. Every game has the potential to be repetitive but not all games are. MMOs of today, for the most part, put you in the cycle of; Complete Dungeon -> Fight for loot -> get all loot -> complete dungeon with said loot -> fight for loot in this dungeon to go complete the next dungeon and on and on and on.
FPS games, do this. Kill these guys, complete these objectives and move on to the next stage and its more dynamic because those objectives can vary and how you complete them can also vary. You don't have to kill one boss several times to get that one drop for that one piece of loot that you have to fight 4 other guys and 1 ninja looter for. You can move on to the next stage and there is nothing to hinder you except completing the objectives within the mission which is kind of how GW2 works.
This is not a game.
GW2 for me will be doing all stuff what is has to offer, iam a pvp player and knowing GW1 had the most balanced pvp in any mmo ever created i know Anet will not disapoint me
And also the events will be worth checking out with my friends, will do 99% of them i think ^^
By the time iam bored iam sure expansion pack 1 will be around the corner :P
And if not, well checking the game revieuws on whats comming out in 2011/2012 iam sure there is a triple A waiting for me.
BF3
Skyrim
Diablo 3
Those 3 titles looks so damn promesing iam sure i wont get bored much this and the next year :P
I'm not concerned with the fashion grind if thats what your referring to.
That's one heck of a big difference... i don't consider it grinding if its something I want to do, verses something I feel I have to go for in order to progress in the game or do anything new. Grinding is mostly referred to in a negative sense and probably what most people are referring to in this case.
If you're having fun it's not really grind, it's more, enjoying the game than "grinding"
Just pointing out the two different perspectives of the term.
I'm like-minded: It's a given for me that grind is NP (no point). So from there I see 2 alternatives to this in MMOs
a) GW2: No grind, accessible, actiony and quality in short bursts
b) A sandbox of some kind that takes <time> to learn/achieve things but allows creativity for the player and the opportunity for player-run communities and consequences of your actions eg even open pvp is the flip of player collaboratives it's to be reminded.
So if I can find either of these, I'll be a happy camper. Which is better, is more down to short or long view of your gaming time?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
You say that it's not all about doing the same raid or dungeon over and over again for gear; They keep doing them because they are fun. But then you say that it is pointless to develop raids/dungeons if they do not give you gear to make you more powerful. A bit contradicting, no?
Why is it not okay to develop dungeons that are fun and just give cosmetic gear?
If something adds fun to the game, then I think it's worth it. I personally play games because they are entertaining and fun.
I used to like raiding a lot more until a lot of new 'methods' were developed by WoW players and started bleeding into other games. Has nothing to do with effectiveness or success rate either, but everything to do with attitude and problem solving.
It's like your not even playing, they just get the 'strat' from somewhere else, usually a write up or video, then basically spend hours on the game trying to copy it 1:1. No different from just watching the video and saying you did it as far as I'm concerned. Difference between actually playing a game of soccer and watching video of someone else and trying to reenact it. Or just copying someone elses crossword puzzle. Boring.
Problem is this is starting to bleed into grouping as well.
I agree natuxatu! I wholeheartedly agree! You tell those trolls what is what.
:P
BOOYAKA!
I play Guild Wars and Eve.... so yeah, I know what you mean.
This is not a game.
I disagree with both of you 100%.
It sounds to me, that your the type of players that don't enjoy the content of the game but rush to the end waiting for the game to start.
If you try that with Guild Wars 2, let me be the first to tell you YOUR DOING IT WRONG.
Other than you know, its FUN.
Let me see, I play with my children because at the end of the day I get a lamborghini? Wrong.
I go to the beach because I am rewarded with money? Wrong
I do the things I enjoy because they are fun and enjoyable. PvP is a rush, its a blast. I don't need a bright new shiney to do it. You've been brainwashed via carrot on a stick mmos.
Trokam, lets take it a bit farther shall we,
Supermike, what happens if in WoW there was no more gear drops?
You said that people do it because its fun, then why is it raiders stop raiding when they have all the gear they want?
Yeah, kinda gotcha on that one.
Carrot on a stick zombies "MUST RAID DUNGEON 265TH TIME FOR PURPLES ZOMG!"
The problem here is that 90% of the encounters in most MMOs have only one way to be done. You cant invent new way cus there isnt any other possible. Everything else is exploiting. And I agree with you. The real fun is to find your way to complete a dungeon.
The point, mazut, is that Guild Wars 2 isn't going to be like that, because there is no set trinity of roles, and because dodging and evasion is an either/or proposition, not based on RNG.
Literally every single dungeon encounter in GW2 will be different based on your group makeup, the dynamic events occuring, and the random events that may or may not be triggered.
At any rate, GW2 really does not seem like the game for you, and that's fine. There are 298129321797 others.
It is so cool that so many people have played this game already and know so much about it. I mean we know that they could not be going off the hype machine. Those comments are never ever ever false.
--John Ruskin
What I want from an MMO is a sense of adventure and good character creation. Guild Wars 2 seems to have that. I dont care for non stop pointless grinding and I hate pvp. A sense of progression is always nice too. but more than anything, i just like getting new stuff to make my character look and feel even cooler than before. I have to feed my creative side or else i get bored