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Do you ever wish Developers would hold monthly, or even weekly meetings with the community?
AccountDeleted12341
Member Posts: 351
I have often wondered if there was a way for the community to gather up their major concerns (or some very quality minor ones) and have a community leader directly address the developer, in a public forum (Live Chat) where all can connect to listen and talk, or even ask their questions if selected.
I am developing a MORPG which I truly want to connect to the playerbase in a very deep and serious way. Not that they may change my dream, vision, or goal-- but that I may address their concerns, listen to their ideas, and do my best to hear what the players believe is priority.
In all my experience in leadership roles, I find that focusing on the individual (or in a MMORPG case, the playerbase) is very important. Not just so that the playerbase likes the game or me as developer, but so that the individuals feel they have a voice, they have power over their lives, and others care about them.
Transparent developers who are honest with their players, and care more for a quality game than a fat corporate wallet.
Community Leader: "A lot of us in the community feel you have failed to do anything about [insert class] being so overpowered. Have you actually played the game? What do you think, and what are you doing about this?"
Bad Developer: "I am the developer, and I don't give a **** what the players think, as long as they keep paying, which they will. I don't play the game, nor do my employees. I will now implement the Combat Upgrade change in addition to the New Game Enhancement, because it is quite clear I want to screw the players over."
Community Leader: "But why?"
Bad Developer: *throws hundreds of dollars up into the air, an evil laugh echoeing as the podcast goes dark*
What do you think? Should developers take a few hours out of their lives every month to really *talk* to the playerbase? Give real, honest truths instead of "I can't say much, but..."
Comments
Well idea itself is very good but it is hard to accomplish.
Well you have to be listening what community has to say , respond to it and at same time 'have balls'.
What I mean , - sweet talking works for a short time , but people grew tired of this. But at same time you cannot agree of everything community wants because you will end up badly. So menaging this , repsonding agreeign to some things , declining others and explaining why ,etc is hard and time consuming task.
So idea is nice really , but if you decide get ready for lot of work and drama. Get ready to steel you nerves and balls at same time as well ;p
If I am actively working on the game as a fully time job, I see no reason for it to be hard and time consuming to spend a few hours a month honestly answering the questions collected and asked by a single Community Leader (who represents the majority).
If the explanation requires a significant amount of time to answer, I would simply state as such and apologize for not having enough time to answer.
I get lengthy emails every week from fans and clients (separate business) which I always answer. It does indeed take time, but if a developer cannot give 1-3 hours of his life every month to hold a "press conference" I have serious doubts about his integrity.
It certainly doesn't mean agreeing with the community, but giving explanations as to the decisions.I really don't think people would be as upset with a honest answer than a lie, a vague reply, or no answer at all.
I believe all MMORPG companies should also be entirely transparent as to their goals per month, or even week.
A simple "Wall of Features List" would be nice, with a priority. Such as the feature list from this program:
http://www.rptools.net/wallOfFeatures/wall.php
This way if the developers are spending all of their time working on stupid quests which no one wants, the community can speak out and say "Screw that, work on fixing THIS first!"
I think monthly briefings between the dev group and playerbase are a good idea but I'd avoid some kind of monthly community interrogation - the hypothetical question you've posted there pretty much sums up why. Nowadays the loudest critical voice of the MMO community is not 'how is the game doing?' or 'what do you have in mind for the future?' it's usually more 'why r pladains so pwrful?!?!' or 'y did u nerf my prismatic walking stick?!?!'. Problems arise when devs actually listen to these tards, typically leading the game down a dark alley prime for a muggin.
I feel the primary benefit of a dev/playerbase conference would be acheiving something less tangible and that would be fostering an environment where both parties feel at ease with each other. That kind of event will occur when a stellar dev team comes along with someone in the know at the top pulling the strings and giving community relations room to breathe - right now, I'm thinking of SoE whilst I type this, when companies attempt community relations as you suggested they tend to come off as cardboard and half-hearted attempts at cosseting the players so they'll shutup and buy the next expansion.
On a constructive note: you're looking to foster that kind of environment, why not take a step back and appraise the options again. Implementation of community leads has tended to be pretty shabby in the past from what I've experienced, for various reasons. You don't really need to directly ask/answer questions of the community to create an open dialogue, or the impression of an open dialogue. Think of dev podcasts, in-studio video briefings to the players, monthly dev spotlights (this week Bob is working on goblins), newsletters, in-game dev summits and so on.
somekind a improvements and ieas type of mailbox in anygame would only do good wich actually is taken seriously and devs would read em.
This isn't true at all. There are plenty of developers who set out to make games solely to get a profit.
Others set out to make good games solely to get a profit.
The actualy quality of the game is only secondary to massive profits. If it were true that quality is important and developers did not set out to make bad games, there wouldn't be so much trash with IP's such as "50 Cent: The Game" or Another-WoW-Clone.
Quality of game doesn't just mean a good game, it means a good game for specific audiences. Making a good game for the masses doesn't make a good game for the veterans. Instead, it's all about making a good game that will sell to the most people-- despite destroying the quality in the process.
So I entirely disagree with this statement, especially with games like these:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/30/the-15-worst-pc-games-of-all-time/
Lol, a game with Ade Edmondson in? Awesome.
Thank you for your suggestions!
The time might be better spent sending out these emails with various dev spotlights, newsletters, and in-game events.
I always wondered if DAoC (Mythic) ever read the feedback forms I'd submit every week to the website.
What for and who or what is the 'community'?
Hoenstly? I'd rather developers spend their time doing what they're supposed to do: develop games and content, coding and stuff. Rather that than weekly interviews with people who are better suited to the role of making our games. As someone said, today's MMO crowd (generalisation) will just take it all the wrong way, and it would just be a 'he said/she said' shit-storm every month.
As long as I get a decent flow of information, with most of it being accurate, then I'm happy enough.
I don't feel the need to be able to talk to developers, and I'm sure they don't need to talk to me either. I can voice my opinions via their forum/e-mail communication systems well enough.
Think about it. If you sit the devs around a table with a bunch of gamers, all hey will get is a massive, chaotic diatribe that will be of absolutely no use to anyone.
Nice idea though.
Few games are more or less doing that. I have seen many exchanges between devs and customers in AoC or in WoW. It has its good side. However you have to deal with a good share of "They ignore Rangers!", "Paladins gets more posts than us!" and so on, while your words are more than often taken out of context in a huge lobbism game.
Thats what the forum is for, to communicate.
Use it.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I think it would be a complete waste of time. They just need official forums with a suggestions section and read them. I dont even need them to post on them, with the exception when some update goes wrong so they can reassure players. But normally no. Anytime I see developers post on a forum, they tend to get dragged into endless discussions because so many players want to have a piece of them.
I do think that transparency about updates is important though. So a good update thread where changes are posted is important too.
A number of conditions would make this sort of dev-player relationship more fruitful.
(1) Size: A smaller mmo might make this more meaningful, ie more personal channels of communication possible instead of following set processes concerning communication/development requests, feedback, complaints etc etc..
(2) Niche: A niche mmo with a dedicated community would make this more meaningful to the players attracted to this game.
(3) Sandbox: A player-run mmo would make this more meaningful to both devs and players (I think).
The opposites are true as well larger mmorpgs, simple make it impossible not to turn useful feedback into an aggregate number of some sort or the less niche the more diverse the types of playerbase playing/paying and themepark just needs the devs to have high quality content that they know more about how to implement than the players whereas sandbox, I suppose elections ie politics/economy/pvp flagging/careers are all in more flux and subject to feedback??
Either way dev support/communication on a regular basis is much appreciated in the mmos I've played plus lends confidence to the future of the game also.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Have you ever been to eq2 forums, communicating is what the devs are famous for, as in not. We only get one and that is rothgar, and half the time the way he comunicates is by telling the folks posting in the forums that the reason they don't communicate is because we told them time and again they don't seam to care.
It is the truth most dev's don't. They have a plan and a road map, they could care less what your normal every day customer has to say, as were supposed to follow the road map not make suggestions.
I seen it that way for many games over the years.
Yep, that works the best, that is how you run a business...
The model that seemed to work best from both the business' and gamers' perspective might be how Mythic handled DAoC. They had dedicated employees to interact with players on the forums, and provide feedback to the developers. I don't know exactly how well Mythic judged the success, DAoC is still believed to have been very responsive to their customers. And that perception, as much as the game, still contributes to the game's rosy reputation.
SoE tried a similar mechanism with EverQuest, but the mechanism soon broke down. The go-betweens were exactly that -- go-betweens. Every time a developer actually responded directly to the community, it undermined the validity of these positions. Eventually SoE allowed the community to 'elect' class representatives who could directly contact the developers via e-mail. It just didn't work well, at least as far as I was concerned.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I didn't read the post but in reponse to the question, No. I understand the business side of it and for the most part they 1. Want to retain secrets and 2. Can only discuss so much anyways as everything has to be approved or signed off by investors. More communication would be nice from a lot of companies but a set in stone period of community Q&A is just a bad idea.
People read one word or synapsis of content and already go on raging tangents of doom & gloom.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
The changes i have seen over the years,that were influenced because of puiblic feedback have for the most part been awful.
Of course part of the blame is because these devs don't know how to think properly when implementing changes that the public asks for.The other part is that i have seen a trend that is showing the public wants the EASIEST simplest form of gaming that even a child could play,and with no effort at all.So i would say listening to the public has been the worst blemish on gaming.
The current play style and trend in mmorpg gaming is sooo superficial,it is sickening.A level number means absolutely nothing and the journey or ride to get to end game means nothing.The only things people care about is getting the best end game loot on a toon that is already done leveling,lol makes no sense at all.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Was possible (even prevalent) in the pre-MMO games.
Unfortunately the question of Scale makes it much less useful in Massive games. Assuming your MMO has enough population to be viable, it has too much population to deal with customer's directly.
Focus groups are possible, but they produce the typical focus group results.
So...most games have forum mods whose job (in theory) is to gather up concerns and deliver them to the devs. In actuality, they spend most of their time policing the kids.
The other reason it does not happen:
Community Leader: "A lot of us in the community feel you have failed to do anything about [insert class] being so overpowered. Have you actually played the game? What do you think, and what are you doing about this?"
Companies are not eager to open their development staff up to the attack dogs. In the pre-MMO games, the developer/customer relationship was a much more respectful one than it is now, we knew each other, and a lot of devs in the smaller games were hired from the player base.
Gamers have become so disrespectable, even downright aggressive, in the post-90s games that a reasonable, adult, calm discussion is unlikely. Everyone has the axe ready to grind.
The third reason: You Promised. Your dev is a little too unguarded, and begins rambling about things they'd like to add to the game, maybe, some day, if feasible.
Two months later the threads about "You PROMISED, where is ?" begin.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Well as great as it is, the problem is the loudest voices are generally the hardcore guys/girls who lurk on the forums frequently. They do not necessarily represent what the majority of the playerbase wants. Imagine if say WoW decided to completely listen to people on the forums. (As a matter of fact they did with Cataclysm, revamping Azeroth and look how that expansion turned out for the game.) I think perhaps it's a good idea if in-game surveys were incoperated with incentives to do them. Like cool cosmetic items.
What if the developers held these monthly 1-3 hour public meetings with group representatives, IN GAME?
It could be a very elaborate event. A party could be thrown, fun things to do and socialize, in addition to the King sitting on the throne, as people line up to ask a single question or favor, which may or may not be granted.
Or instead, a council could be held in the King's Court, as noblemen (representatives of the majority) step up to state their case before the King, asking for his favor.
Anyone who attends the party gets to participate in special events, party items, etc. Once a month.
Wow.. thank you for helping me come up with this idea!
Every month, on different days, I believe I will host a "King" party where people get to line up (or they place their names in a raffle) and get to ask the King for favors. That would be really fun, and a great reward for developing a MMORPG myself, lol.
"King, I would like 5 gold."
"5 Gold? That is what you ask of me? I grant you 50 gold, and the title 'Leonard the Humble'"
"King, I want 5 million gold."
"I will give you what I think of you. Here is your single copper piece. NEXT!"
"Sir, this woman stole my baby and it is mine."
"Hmm... cut the baby in half."
"No! No! Let the baby live. She can have him!"
"Clearly the answer is obviously obvious. Execute both of them, and sell the baby to the goblin king to replace my 50 gold I just gave away.!"