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So long MMO genre: my final departure from the games I use to love.
ladyattis
Member Posts: 1,273
I just had a realization today after trying out another MMO: I'm not interested in the genre anymore. It's not because of setting, game mechanics, bugs, or content. It's because developers seem to forgot that games are about three things: story, novelty, and adventure. It seems that story gets pushed too much, so I don't think that's lost on developers, but strangely novelty and adventure are the two least understood or underdeveloped concepts among MMOs of the last ten years.
Ask anyone who's play Ultima Online, Everquest, Meridian 59, or any other mid 1990s to early 2000s MMO, they'll tell you stories of how it was an adventure and that there were new things to find along the way. Today, many things are given to a player (imo, too many things); social status (as the hero or chosen one of the game), that their actions have little consequence, and all the information about what s/he is suppose to do is given up front with no rhyme or reason. It's as if the developers think players need to be the center of the game's universe rather than a part of it. Also, the developers refuse to allow for failure, even if it's minor, which means that a player has no incentive to explore or experiment in the game. So, imagination is never rewarded whether it's in choice of action or other ways. The player is left with a single well defined path to follow(and they better damn well like it! /sarcasm).
There are no ruins to find. No treasures to uncover. No undiscovered countries. No mysteries. No ambiguity. No adventure. Which means there's no real game in the MMO genre. It's do X thing Y times and return back to me. Or take X thing to Y person and repeat. Or it gets worse; fight X person just because we (the developers) said so. Or some other such nonsense passing as fun.
I'm sorry for the bitter tirade, but I think it needed to be said at least for my sake. So, I won't be bothering to keep up with the latest MMO title. And maybe that's a good thing since I have a stack of single player games on the bookshelf not quite finished. Maybe someday some developers will get the itch to go and do a game in the MMO genre again, but I won't be holding my breath.
TLDR version: Bitter gamer bitching about how MMOs being dumbed down into interactive screensavers.
Comments
You and me both.
Time for a truism!
"You can never go home".
I don't mean this as an insult to anyone, but I think for a lot of people, thinking is "work" rather than something that's enjoyable. That's why we have so much voter apathy in this country. It's too much work to stay informed and folks do enough of that AT work.
So, when they get home, it's time to veg out. Just like my parents did in front of thier TV for 50+ years every single night.
Can't deny the popularity of games that cater to that mindset.
Interestingly, I was first drawn to gaming as a interactive thinking experience that had it all over TV. Now it's the same as TV except you can still press a few buttons.
It's not about not ever able to go home, it's about the fact developers don't want to come up with games. They want to make what amounts to virtual slot machines (that's what raid gear really is if you study the psychology of addiction). And I was never into that. That's why I liked the early MMOs where items were okay and only a few were ever great enough to hold onto. Today, either you get the shinies or you go home.
You just need to take a break from the mmo scene for awhile and recharge your batteries. Like you mentioned, go take on some console games and when you are ready come back to us. I am in the same boat as you till that new shiny Jedi Mind Tricks game comes out. I have been tearing up Demon Soul's and GT5 a lot lately.
My opinion is, you're playing the wrong games.
Games like Mortal Online, Darkfall, Neocron (old now), and even Earthrise to an extent have everything you claim is missing from all modern day MMOs. None are without their own problems though, I know.
My advice; stop listening to what the latter generation of MMO players say on these forums, and try some of the more poorly reviewed games that fit more with the older generation of MMO players' standards.
I personally couldn't go back to single player games; they just feel lonely.
I'm not a raider.... okay maybe I can classify as a PvP'er in some respects, but what I really am, is a gamer, and I think most of us to some degree can be classified as gamers.
I think theres a misstep in focus here on what a gamer should do. We should play games. We should play them because we enjoy them and they are fun. We should not play them because they hold some kind of secret value due to hours of punishment to achieve pointless rewards.
I play MMOs for as long as I find them fun. I do this in the same way I play any other game, but so many people expect that this particular acronym should be held to different standards. Developers -- they expect that their games will be held to different standards.
In that way, we end up with a kind of "lost generation" of gamers, that are playing something despite the fact that it might not be fun right now, but for the simple fact that once they achieve the next echelon, they can finally enjoy the game.
While I feel like there are games out there that I had adventures in recently. Fallen Earth.... Xsyon..... when my interest waned, I left. I think any game can give you an adventurous feeling, but only for as long as you enjoy it.
Thats just a few of the reasons I'm looking forward to SWTOR, GW2 and TSW, amongst others.
I was going to saw the same, you seem to be playing the wrong games. How many themepark MMOs have you played in a row? Why not go and try to relive the good old times(and maybe see they weren't all good) for a few months? Or you could wait... for SWTOR
Couldn't of said it better myself. Today's "supposed" MMO's are more console games in an MMO wrapper. I don't care how much I am flamed for this comment, but I personally believe it started the shift from MMORPG's being it's own genre to more of a PC/console genre with the introduction of "that game that dare not be mentioned".
They had so many console elements in that game and dumbed it down so much...on top of having tons of cash to advertise in mass and pull everyone out of the wood work that had never really played MMO's and had no real clue what they were about prior to it. Basically...from personal observation...other companies saw the cash cow they could possibily make following the same cookie cutter scheme (Although none have really succeeded since), and lost sight of what really made MMO's stand apart from console games. On top of that, these people who started with "that game that dare not be mentioned" think that is how all MMO's are intended...so they jump in each new MMO when they get bored and freak when it isn't like "that game that dare not be mentioned". And sadly...majority is heard...in most cases ruining anything that may have been good about those MMO's due out before release even. Sad days.
SWTOR will probably be my final hope. Although I am still going to watch about the developement of Everquest Next closely.
P.S. Personally....I feel PvP should not be thrown in a PvE MMO. If PvP is wanted, it should be an exclusively PvP MMO...or be left to console games. It ruins the game for most of those who love PvE/questing/exploring, etc.
Problem is the games like MO, and DF are all low budget games. They really should still be in alpha. I am not a fan of FFA PVP, but that isn't why I don't play those games. I don't play them because they aren't at a level where they should be charging money yet. Give me a game like them made by a developer with a budget large enough to actually get the game going and I'll be there.
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Right now, I'm poking around in the Aether of Minecraft. It's a fun mod for that game. I'm going to try out the Amazopack next.
Also, I tried most of the modern sandboxes. What turns me off to them is the emphasis on PVP over PVE. Both paths ought to be viable, but in general modern sandboxes depend on PVP and deprive PVE'ers.
Think about coming back to MMOs when Guild Wars 2 comes out.
As far as social status goes, you're not the chosen one of the game. Part of the game (the dungeon story mode) involves trying to get this group of NPC heroes get back together. My best analogy for it is it's like you, Sam, Merry, Pippin and Boromir helping Frodo, Aragorn, Gandalf, Legolas and Gimli hug it out.
There are two avenues for consequence and failure. The first is that open world quests are replaced by events that happen whether players are there or not. They are failable. They chain in different directions depending on the outcome. It's a not a permanent change, they run in cycles, but if players don't defend a town, it will stay razed until they do the event to liberate it.
You also have a personal story with instanced consequences. For example, at one point you can save a hospital or an orphanage, your choice. The other stays destroyed in your home instance. It has branching outcomes not only based on your decisions in the game, but your choices made during character creation.
You don't have a single path to explore in the world. You can do any event in the zone that you see and want to stop and help in (they're very visual, no picking up the quest). Also, here's one quote about how they want to reward explorers. "It’s up to the environment team to fill our game with memorable locations worthy of that exploration. A series of broken stone columns turns out to be a jumping puzzle to reach a hidden cave mouth overgrown with vines."
And since I saw your reply about raiding slot machines, let me add that GW2 is not a gear based game. There are huge open world encounters, but there's no raiding treadmill. There are hard 5 person dungeons, but they reward you with a token every time you run them. There will be optional grinds in the game for vanity items, but no mandatory or progression ones.
You're asking for novelty, and I'm honestly barely scratching the surface of the things this game is trying to innovate. I'm not saying it's the game for everybody or even that it's the game for you, but I think you'll want to check this one out before giving up on the genre completely.
ArenaNet says it better than I can.
http://www.youtube.com/user/arenanetofficial#p/u/2/FU1JUwPqzQY
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
This paragraph sums up how I've been feeling about MMO's for the past 10 years. With the one minor exception of Lord of the Rings Online before they soloized it into the grave, every MMO I've played since EverQuest has been the above. Do X thing Y times, take X to Y, all in an 'area' that feels more like a straight line than a 'world'. I first felt it when I entered the free trial of World of Warcraft, I didn't even reach level 35 in that game I got so tired of the pointless actions.
This is caused purely by casuals taking over the genre. They'd rather stare blankly at the screen watching the shiny shinies for an hour than actually have to put some thought and effort into a game. The thing that worries me is I can only see it getting worse.
cali59, to quote one of my favorite rap songs Fight of the Century:
The question I ponder is who plans for whom?
Do I plan for myself or leave it to you?
I want plans by the many, not by the few."
This is exactly what developers need to start doing again: let the players choose how to act and what to act upon. The players need to matter or at least take hold of their own sense of purpose rather than being lead by some Maynard Keynes of game development down some single path of supposed objective enjoyment.
Now, ArenaNet is on the right path, but I'm rightly skeptical to not assume they've implemented it correctly since I'm not privy to their beta or alpha tests. So, I'll wait and see. Until then, I'm in minecraft.
This paragraph here.
I love the comment "I don't have time to do long drawn out quests. I want to feel I have accomplished something in the limited time I have to play." That is ok, to an extent. But this is one of the many things that seperates MMORPG's from console games. They are suppose to be worlds to explore freely, discover quests (Which are called quests because you have to travel long distances, meet many NPC's to find otu info for it, and maybe even team up with others to complete it.)...not "Get X skins from Y creatures and return 10 feet to me." types of quests...if you want to call them that.
You want quick gratification in gaming? Console games are more your bag IMO.
I've always wondered what compels a person to write a "goodbye" to a videogame or in this case a whole videogame genre. I always tend to think that these must be important people, to justify such an exit, but is there really anyone of importance when it comes to videogames? I don't care if you're Bill Gates, the president or John Q Public. In a videogame you're just another player. Yet so many people do the same thing, and voice their exit, letting the world know of their passing. Do people really think that there is someone out in the void of the internet world that is going to feel a tinge of regret, thinking that maybe they could have done something better? I can't honestly believe that is the case.
I think it's more about the reality of loss that the person feels instead. I think that people look at the end of a videogame like the end of a relationship, There has been moments of adoration, frustration and glory. There have been hard fought battles and hours of effort. There have been laughs and cheers aside heckles and jeers. We forced ourselves to take the bad with the good, and as a testament to our compromise, we have loved the games we worked so hard at. To simply just walk away, is not so easy.
So though it matters little to me that you are moving on, I can appreciate your reason for voicing it. I just wish that there was a medium that would actually let your voice be heard, to the people that need to hear it.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I have to agree that all these MMOs people seem to be playing are the "Grind-fest games". Exploring cant exsist when you have the "Map Travel" feature. it'd just be pointless. If you want a mmo that you can explore, look into more open games like Darkfall or Mortal Online. That is where true "exploring" is utilized. The basis of the games is survival, since its an open world and pvp is allowed anywhere, even in towns (though in darkfall there are spires that fire at you if you attack in town. Excluding guild rivalry). Unlike other MMOs, Darkfall's armor system is based on crafting, and its virtualy expendable. And if crafting isnt your thing, you can simply get some friends and Go Gank someone for their armor. Its games like these that i wish companies would make more of. Becuase no matter if your the highest level, and have your stats maxed. Your still going to die! the game is unpredictable and there is no story, the story is whatever you make it. And even though you will find yourself losing your stuff alot in the game, it realy isnt that hard to get back when you have a guild to help you out.
Whenever i play Grind-fest games, the point that i reach max level and get that epic gear, i always find myself saying "Now what...". Because once you have everything, theres nothing to do sept go to the arena and do fake pvp. (i say fake pvp becuase you donno what pvp is till you played a game like darkfall Lol). The only reason i stopped playing Darkfall was the lag from big group battles becuase i dont have the greatest computer.
if you are honestly looking for a diffrent kind of MMO and havent played a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online. I recomend you try one of them before ditching MMOs all together.
I'd amend that slightly:
"MMOs are only new once."
The reason older players are searching for that "first game feeling" and never finding it is a simple one.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
i hear ya..dont feel bad your not the only one..i havent played a good mmo or even close to a decent mmo in years..many of year!
the genra has gone in a totally diff direction and us real mmorp gamers just are not following..goodbye sweet memories!
but there is always hope
You should at least try SWTOR when it comes out. It's focusing hevily on everything you mentioned. Swtory, novelty, and adventuring. It's worth a shot right?
Hmmm, not sure that's true. I thought EQ was the best until I played SWG. Then that became the best.
I wouldn't go back to EQ on a bet. Even a progression server. I would go back to a pre-cu SWG however.
Even though playing EQ gave me some of the best memories of any MMO I've played which has been a lot. I even miss Earth & Beyond!
Don't think I'd go back to that one either honestly.
Bye bye . more for me to play
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
The OP has a really good point. However, what we MMO vets like isn't the same as what the majority wants. It sucks, but that's the truth. People who enjoy the effort of free thought and exploration just aren't the majority, we're a niche. As such, it's a hard sell to convince any company with a budget that we're worth the risk associated with catering to us. This is precisely why the only companies you see still attempting such games, do so from a personal doctrine of sorts generated by the creator(s) of said company.
One thing I realized (and I know many of the newer generation of MMO gamers will have a difficult time understanding this), is that as much of a pain some of the previous games were to complete; that directly transfered into enjoyment upon completion. It's basic risk vs. reward mentality. The bigger something feels like a risk (either a long journey, or the possibility of dying a lot, losing equipment / etc.), the better the reward feels. I think far too many gamers give up on this too easily, and in turn games are being catered to the low risk, high reward philosophy. Well, with that setup it's possible to get the best items a lot easier, but it feels far less rewarding. There's no sense of accomplishment, because you didn't really accomplish anything. Take rift for example; You get a really nice, shiny item, gleam over it for about 5seconds, and then immediately it's 'okay, whats the next shiny item i can get'. That's a very shallow game model to play within. Even though the game does have some fun little quirks hidden around the world, they get lost in the overarching game structure of 'roll for shinier & shinier loot'.
SWTOR might accomplish this, but I somehow doubt it. It may be a fun game (hell, I'm going to give it a shot), but it seems to cater more toward the later, and not the former generation of MMO gamers. I think GW2 has a better shot at accomplishing something along the lines of what the OP was asking for, however I also don't think it will be exactly what the OP wants. For starters the combat will feel a lot less like a standard PVE driven MMO, and more like a PvP driven one. The game does look like it not only has a fair bit of, but also rewards player exploration, though. I think many will enjoy this. However, it's also not a loot driven game. So those first gen games of hard to get, epic loot are going to feel foreign compared to GW2.
OP - You'll be back. I'm 100% certain of that!
op not that i disagree with your points or anything but what was your first mmo game. myself started with ac and having recently went back for a few months I can say those good times werent all that great. sure the game was fun but it took way more of my life than I am able to give at this present time.
now I personally dont like wow, never got into eq, dont care to even learn about the the old republic because I feel bioware just went from making great games to getting into the wow piece of the pie by making a bigger and better wow. I am currently playing city of heroes which has generally been my favorite game of all time except it does get boring after 8 month or so at a time.
I agree there is no good games coming down the pipe or no games that show much promise other than the name such as guild wars but then again I never could get into the controls of guild wars 1, dont know if 2 will be any better. games are pretty much just loot piniatas now, the world is gone, there is no sense of community, there is no interest in building a character or lore other than getting the next big badass sword of slaying. wow gave into the ADD kids and adults that want stuff now and quite frankly I dont see that changing, unless the secret world lives up to its promises but quite frankly single players games are not much better, most of them have wowized also, making it quicker, easier and not challenging for the most part.
good luck to you, but the best thing to do imo is just get a good casual game and play it when you feel like it, myself ill be sticking to city of heroes probably forever.