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Is the MMO Subscription Model Becoming Obsolete?
Vhaln
Member Posts: 3,159
I used to prefer subs, and it's taken me a while to warm up to the cash shop idea enough to spend any money on it, but after trying games like DDO, CO, and AOC, I feel I've come around, and it got me thinking. I like the F2P or B2P model, even when spending some money is pretty much required. I like that I can unlock a class or race or whatever, and its mine to keep indefinately.
People act like you're asking too much, if you can spend $15-30 and keep what you get forever, but the thing is, I never sub for more than 2-3 months anymore anyhow, which equates to the same amount of money for them. The difference for me is that I can come and go over a year or two, instead of just subbing for a month, quitting, and never looking back.
In CO's case, I never even payed for my first month. I just didn't like it enough - but I'd come back to see what's changed now and then, if I'd invested money in cash shop unlocks instead. For Cryptic, that would mean more money from me, than they have any chance of getting with a subscription model. Problem is, they're holding onto the subscription model with one hand, while offering this phony F2P with the other, like a lure. Sorry, that's just not going to work, unless you have a good enough game that appeals to enough people who will want to subscribe, and CO has already proven that it doesn't appeal that much to that many.
Even the more successful MMOs are completely failing to retain most of their players for more than a month or two. I'd bet that even SWTOR will have this problem. That can mean they'd conceivably make more from a cash shop than they would from a subscription, if they consider that poor retention. Meaning that letting people keep what they buy indefinately is win/win, instead of comparing cash shop purchases to longterm subscriptions, when when longterm subs are just increasingly unrealistic these days.
The trick is just putting the right sort of things in the cash shop. Thing people will want, but won't need. I think AOC has the right idea, but could stand to build on it some more. Lot of people point to cosmetic items, but realistically, that isn't going to appeal to enough people to offset a lack of subscription. It could hep a lot, especially with items that appeal to the surprisingly large segment of the MMO population that like dressing up female characters, and a game with a good housing system could probably make good money on decor items, but I think there needs to be some practical stuff too.
That doesn't mean boosts that give advantages, though. More like class and race unlocks. Even ability unlocks. Even if there are free alternatives that are equally good, I suspect a lot of people would be willing to pay for the chance to try something different. Now that I'm more open to the F2P idea, I would be, at least. And so very few get any subscription money from me at all. Am I alone in that?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Comments
It is a lot simpler for me:
Is it better than Guild Wars? -No? Then why are you paying a subsciption for it?
I can't remember a sub-based game that I've played past the free month. They just are not worth it. I stuck with Eve as long as I did because I exploited all the sales and stuff that got me months of playtime for just a couple of euros. That and I bought gametime with ingame currency.
No game is worth the subscription fee in my eyes. Bad value for money.
P2P is solely for maximising income. Ofcourse they want to milk you if you are willing! Talks like it is needed for continual development and server costs are a myth. People need to learn that.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I think it is.
I've been playing mmos for a long time and even im starting to feel cheated by P2p.
I buy a box for 50-60 bucks and only get access to that game for a month? then have to pay 15 bucks every month just to keep playing a game i payed for already?
If i stop paying the 15 bucks then i lose access to everything I already paid for?
After a while it seems like you're being scammed.
This is why im playing games like Lotro, GW, GA, CO and GA i can buy stuff outright and its mine.
F2p with mictro transactions (not Buy to win shit) and B2p games are the future.
People need to realize that P2p subscription models are scamming players.
Wake up! How much money did you spend on WARhammer? or Aion? or WoW? one hundred? two hundred? three hundred bucks???? Can you access the crap you paid for without shelling out more cash?!!? nope...
What a terrible model, driven by people that are so addicted to the gameplay that they can't even realize that they are taken for a ride.
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F2P is a scam. The only true F2P MMO's i know is Guild Wars. I'm not playing an MMO where you success is based on how much you are willing to pay. Success in MMO should be based on dedication not how deep your wallet is.
Some people 'subscribe' to F2P game, some people just purchase items, some do both and some do neither of it and never spend a penny. The point is, you get way more options for your customers, thus also larger customer base.
F2P model and cash shop implementation is individual to each game and needs to be evaluated on case by case basis. F2P is still new phenomenon on western markets and it will take some time until some coherent, applicable and detailed knowledge is gained.
Will P2P become obsolete? Definitely not. While larger customer base is an advantage of the F2P model, it is also a severe limitation. F2P games rely on large player base but with large budget games, the player base would need to be unrealistically large to pay off for the development.
So on one end, you have a constantly increasing demands for higher development budgets but the at the same time those budgets are not reflected in expansion of player base. This needs some solution and I think that P2P+cash shop model could achieve that.
I hate product placement in movies, I would really hate it in my fantasy MMO's. Sure, maybe in a title such as TSW I could tolerate some of it, but no way do I want to see Pepsi in even SWTOR. (still a fantasy world IMO, even with its Sci Fi theme)
Keep it to subs, for heavens sakes, its 15.00 a month...... seriously.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
then I suppose you would only have post apoc/scifi MMOs being made...
^^ THIS
When GW2 releases and when people start to play it, THIS will slowly sink into the brain.
Of course there will be expections to the norm but I think the norm will be THIS.
Cash shops and "paid for " expansions are part of the F2P and I for one full agree that they should be part of the model , I want to pay for my games and these game producers must make a profit otherwise we end up with no games at all. If the producers have no money then the games will lack quailty.
F2P brings in better competition as well, as players are free to play whatever game they feel is best and this makes the producer create better quailty games, as we will only spend money in the game(in the cash shops) after trying it and seeing that it is worth paying for.
You think Free to play is a scam because you actually have to support the company through Cash shop purchases? Really? wow...
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This is an Autobot's or Descepticons questions, as the big blackbird in the movie said its a fundimentally personal question.
For me, I'm an autobot and love subs, I have played many free to play mmo's and in almost all cases end up paying out way to much money to catch up with the long term players, this is not good when you dont have a lot of cash, I would much preffer playing 1 game and being on the same playing field with everyone else playing it.
The only cash shops that have any value in my view are those that will NEVER offer game or character enhancments, shops that only offer cosmetic changes, like name , skin colour, cloth colour, ink's , light saber colour stuff like that.
The second a cash shop offers an item that will make the player who buys it stronger in any way, they instally lose me as a player, and a customer, because I simply will not play a PAY to WIN game.
Skill should never come up against a wallet, the wallet will almost always win.
I suppose his point is that F2P is a scam because in oder to "enjoy" most F2P games you are "forced" to purchase cash shop items to remove artificial and deliberate inconveniences whose only reason to exist is to annoy you enough to make you open your wallet.
thats not supporting the company, thats a grey area that could almost be considered blackmailing...
^
If the sub model is on the way out then I'll be following it.
Look at the news LotRO just announced, a removal of the stat cap which in turns pushes that game another stealth step in the direction of pay to win via purchasable stat tomes that were added months back.
I have no intention on playing a game for fun in which equality is based not off of IG balance and personal competency but how much I'm willing to shell out to 'the man' and his big corporation.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Lotro is a pve focused game. if people want to buy stat tomes let them. I dont see a problem with it.
Now if the game had competitive pvp that actually mattered like GvG or territory control i would see an issue with it.
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the craziest thing about the subscription model is:-
when a expansion is released they charge you to buy it then they charge you a months sub to play it
it can be almost £50 for both of these
at least some games give free expansions or free play but it is shocking when they charge you
and i cant belive people pay it
but there is one thing i must say about mmo's in general
before they came out i used to buy one or two games a month since they came out i only payed a sub but it probably killed pc gamming
The biggest problem with P2p is that you dont actually own the game.
Pay 50 bucks for the box only to be required to pay 15 bucks a month to have access to something you paid for already.
Its like a high price rental service...
after a while you have to admit it feel like a scam. just go look at your bank statements. see how much you've sunk in these games that you will be denied access to if u dont pay a sub, hundreds if not thousands of dollars spent and you cant access shit if u dont keep shelling out money.
Keep telling me F2p is a scam. atleast i can access all the content in lotro that i paid for. cant say that for that 50 dollar box of WAR or WoW.
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Not when i played. obviously after seven years they will discount the original box lol.
Lets see. WoW box + expansions = 150 bucks
Three year sub just to play shit i paid for = 540 bucks.
690 bucks spent on a game i can no longer access unless i pay more...
TO anyone outside the mmo genre this would seem like a fucking joke.
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DO NOT BE FOOLED to get the most out of your game you commit to most newly converted F2P AAA titles via a subscription and then if you are "into it" purchasing additional items to play the game. Take turbine a VIP member is subscribed but if they want to par-take in end game stuff you sort of need to purchase potions from the shop or spend 4 hours a day farming them.
Some F2P games work and will be successful like dragon nest
Currently I am committed to Rift and will be unless they go with a F2P. F2P for modern AAA mmorpgs is a viel for practically offering a free trial and then double dipping their customers through a nickle and dime system cash shop.
hummm i think lots of peoples should get a job and work to be able to pay for the kind of game they play.
If you're not happy with sub game, stay on the f2p boring game with the kids community and gold selling spam. The devs that create, models, program, debugg, test and re-test the game you're playing, if they dont get cash, dont expect anything new ! Dont even expect new MMO, because if i'm right, peoples dont play after the free month or 2-3 month max, maybe thats because is a bad game ?
Peoples still pay to play DAOC today ! That game is 10 years old and peopels still play and have fun ! Oh and its one of the only MMO with a good community where you actualy get an answer when you ask a question... WoW has peoples paying to play.
The whole damn F2P community that want everything free and more free stuff because they dont want to pay, probably because in their fabulous young life they never paid for anything because they had everything free from their father, mother or whatever. This damn community IS the damn reason why MMO that comes out are BS ! The main reason why i dont play many a good game i've tried, but i was tired of being spammed penis, cunt, boobs, fuck you, etc..etc...
Life isnt free... and if it is, then tell me where you live...Dont think anyone want to work for free, why should peoples play games for free ? There's a difference between single player game where there isnt any maintenance to do as in a MMO, why do you think they need the subscription fee ? Dammit peoples are so...
If you cant pay, get a fucking job and GROW UP !
In my eyes, F2P will never be a viable option all the while it becomes pay 2 win, companies know a lot of people will pay willingly to get some amazing gear out of the cash shop and thats why those games still excist.
P2P games have a fixed sub, you get all the content in the game, nothing is restricted without paying more and more and more, I'd rather pay a small sub than pay for the game over and over to gain more content, upgrades etc. Yes you do have to buy the cd-key in effect to gain access to a P2P game most of the time, but it does come with a free month, so if u take the game cost and take away the sub for a month you are left with what you are really paying towards the disc, manual, box and cd-key.
GW is a shit game offcourse no one pays for that one. So yes most games are better than that one. I laugh at cheepskates like you, wanting everything for free. Its better for all of us if you guys stick with the failure games that goes F2P anyway, probalby feel right at home there.
reply in red
Why the insults? im probably much more successful than you are. I own several businesses and can litterally buy what i want and I can see P2p for what it is. An overpriced rental.
Choosing to play a game because i want to actually own the content doesnt mean we are unemployed.
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Well obviously a ton of those korean/asian F2ps are horrible. Obviously im not discussing those. I think ive been fair in my discussion i bring up the gems on both sides. Do you really want me to bring up horrible p2p games like Darkfall or vanguard?
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50 USD is for client, 15 USD is for being able to connect to their servers.
No issue there.
It is pretty common you purchase a software and then you pay for data feeds.
No, it's not becoming obsolete.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I generally like your posts but you do realize how badly you've been brain washed into thinking like that? What good is a client if u cant connect to play? what am i paying for then? 50 bucks for a cardboard box and booklet?
I fear for people in this genre honestly.
I get that most dont like F2p because a ton of the asian games are Pay to win or sometimes the quality isnt there (again the asian games). But to not see P2p as an incredible waste of money boggles my mind.
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