It was expected, to be honest. Selling gold in WoW is so rampant, sellers cant' really meet the demand. I know personally some of the "small-time" sellers (5 PCs with 50 accounts working 24/7).
MMO without an economy would be sorely lacking and hardly so addictive.
Therefore, we have abuses of the economy. But when you really think of the old saying - time is money - it makes a bit of sense that some people, without money, choose to spend time to achive whatever they aim to achieve, while others, who have money (they "grinded" it in RL :P), and not much time, choose to spent the money and not the time.
The one worry could be hacking/exploiting bugs: what if a person finds a way to "dupe" items or aquire them due to bugs, and then sells many of those for RL cash? It would seem to be a much more serious matter than before, maybe even involving the police (with realID and paypal and whatnot).
I was looking forward to D3 for the longest time. And then Actiblizz pulls this stunt to turn it's playerbase into a sweatshop. That's it for me with Blizzard. No more chances. I'm done.
It was expected, to be honest. Selling gold in WoW is so rampant, sellers cant' really meet the demand. I know personally some of the "small-time" sellers (5 PCs with 50 accounts working 24/7).
MMO without an economy would be sorely lacking and hardly so addictive.
Therefore, we have abuses of the economy. But when you really think of the old saying - time is money - it makes a bit of sense that some people, without money, choose to spend time to achive whatever they aim to achieve, while others, who have money (they "grinded" it in RL :P), and not much time, choose to spent the money and not the time.
The one worry could be hacking/exploiting bugs: what if a person finds a way to "dupe" items or aquire them due to bugs, and then sells many of those for RL cash? It would seem to be a much more serious matter than before, maybe even involving the police (with realID and paypal and whatnot).
You know...
My opinion is that if you're playing a game that is primarily about leveling up and getting loot through fighting monsters and what not, yet you would rather just pay money for said loot...then you probably shouldn't be playing the game. You're doing it wrong. You could just buy the game, spend $100 or so to get the best equipment in the game, and then quit on day one.
What are you going to do after you get the best equipment anyway? People normally play the game in order to get good equipment...if you just buy it, then you defeated the purpose of the game. You may as well just not play the game at all in that case.
My opinion is that if you're playing a game that is primarily about leveling up and getting loot through fighting monsters and what not, yet you would rather just pay money for said loot...then you probably shouldn't be playing the game. You're doing it wrong. You could just buy the game, spend $100 or so to get the best equipment in the game, and then quit on day one.
What are you going to do after you get the best equipment anyway? People normally play the game in order to get good equipment...if you just buy it, then you defeated the purpose of the game. You may as well just not play the game at all in that case.
Before I comment on this quote, I would like to say that when I made my last post, I didn't realize there was no single player option in D3. That means there's very little chance of my buying it unless it turns out to be absolutely amazing.
Back to this post:
I agree that the main premises of a dungeon crawl are getting more loot, fighting monsters, exploring new environments and building characters. However, I do remember a lot of players in D2 playing the economic game, even back in the late 1990s early 2000s.
This is not to excuse them at all, but what I mean is that Blizzard is supporting those guys now and pretty much ignoring those of us who want to play, dare I say it, the traditional way that you mention in the post quoted above.
What do people do when they get the best equipment? They try to win everything. They're just like those who play FPSes in godmode. I think there are some people who have so many insecurities in real life they will do whatever it takes to win at something 100% of the time.
The economic game is different, but I think that players are in general over-estimating how much they will be earning if they try to make their living off of D3. They will be charged three times by Blizzard for anything they sell. If there is serious deflation, a problem that many games with a hybrid real money market face (look at EVE), then they will really be earning virtually nothing at all.
I would of course be curious to find out if anyone *can* make a living doing this, since this is one of the main arguments in support of this. Average people will be pitted against already industrialised farmers...
I also wonder whether any governments will get involved, considering that these models are crossing the lines more and more into real markets and of course the governments might want their "share"...
People over exagerate the competiveness of Diablo.... Diablo 2 was never competitive at all except maybe for ladder wipes and then the 1week rush to see who can get 99 first on a hardcore character, and even then it was mostly always hammerdin bots or some such shit.
People are spazzing out over this RMT for Diablo 3 as if its going to ruin some sort of competitve aspect of the game? I don't understand...Lets say even for arguments sake that the D3 pvp scene goes into e-sports, if loot is a major factor in the equation here then you're already detracting majorly from the e-sports appeal.... and even then, the competitive aspect isnt "whos got the best gear" because everyone will have the best gear in order to compete.
Games like Diablo where the more time you spend playing the more "powerful" you become have NEVER been on an equal playing field in terms of the competive aspect, you want really want to be competitve on an equal playing field? Then go play a game where skill is the only factor that comes into play, and not RNG. SC2 comes to mind.
Personally, I see this RMT as an extra way of benefiting from spending time infront of the computer, because not only am I being rewarding with the joy and pleasure of playing a video game, I can make some money at it too.
tl;dr ITT Butthurt people who cant/wont spend money on Diablo 3 because they hold some sort of grand illusions that without the RMT the playing field would be equal. Derp.
People over exagerate the competiveness of Diablo.... Diablo 2 was never competitive at all except maybe for ladder wipes and then the 1week rush to see who can get 99 first on a hardcore character, and even then it was mostly always hammerdin bots or some such shit.
People are spazzing out over this RMT for Diablo 3 as if its going to ruin some sort of competitve aspect of the game? I don't understand...Lets say even for arguments sake that the D3 pvp scene goes into e-sports, if loot is a major factor in the equation here then you're already detracting majorly from the e-sports appeal.... and even then, the competitive aspect isnt "whos got the best gear" because everyone will have the best gear in order to compete.
Games like Diablo where the more time you spend playing the more "powerful" you become have NEVER been on an equal playing field in terms of the competive aspect, you want really want to be competitve on an equal playing field? Then go play a game where skill is the only factor that comes into play, and not RNG. SC2 comes to mind.
Personally, I see this RMT as an extra way of benefiting from spending time infront of the computer, because not only am I being rewarding with the joy and pleasure of playing a video game, I can make some money at it too.
tl;dr ITT Butthurt people who cant/wont spend money on Diablo 3 because they hold some sort of grand illusions that without the RMT the playing field would be equal. Derp.
Who said anything about being equal. If people wanted to be equal they wouldn't play a loot-centric game to begin with. They would play a FPS or a RTS. I think you missed the whole point of it all.
The point is you fight monsters in order to become more powerful. Not pay money to become more powerful. It has nothing to do with being rich or poor or being equal. Say it with me "progression based game"
Diablo's have always been crappy hack 'n slash games, what on earth would make this 3rd installment of the same dung change the world or the future? 3d-graphics?
If I wanted to be in a 'pay 2 win' environment, I'd go back to RL.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
RMT is the future, I accept this, but don't support it.
I'd prefer that MMO developers "fight the good fight" but it is apparent they're going to take the path of least resistance (and perhaps higher revenue) and incorporate it into the game model.
It could backfire on them however, in the F2P world only about 10% of the playerbase is willing to spend real world cash and that's a pretty small market to divide across multiple games.
It certainly will alienate a number of gamers who may not play MMO's anymore which will be a big loss in revenue.
Time will tell.
(BTW, did I mention I hate posting in blogs in this forum, the editing tools are too poor)
It doesn't make sense to fight a fight you can't win. Developers aren't soldiers fighting the good fight, they are businesses, with mouths to feed and people to fleece.
Blizzard is at least taking the idea that they will act as a market for goods, not as a supplier. It's the best solution possible, given the scenario and the landscape.
I'm not convinced the war is unwinnable, but I will concede it is probably more profitable not to make the attempt and if you can't beat them, join them.
We'll see in the long run how well this works out for them. One problem is it appears they may require players to pay to list their items, if so I can see alternate marketing channels opening up elsewhere that perhaps don't require payment until the sells.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My opinion is that if you're playing a game that is primarily about leveling up and getting loot through fighting monsters and what not, yet you would rather just pay money for said loot...then you probably shouldn't be playing the game. You're doing it wrong. You could just buy the game, spend $100 or so to get the best equipment in the game, and then quit on day one.
What are you going to do after you get the best equipment anyway? People normally play the game in order to get good equipment...if you just buy it, then you defeated the purpose of the game. You may as well just not play the game at all in that case.
Before I comment on this quote, I would like to say that when I made my last post, I didn't realize there was no single player option in D3. That means there's very little chance of my buying it unless it turns out to be absolutely amazing.
Back to this post:
I agree that the main premises of a dungeon crawl are getting more loot, fighting monsters, exploring new environments and building characters. However, I do remember a lot of players in D2 playing the economic game, even back in the late 1990s early 2000s.
This is not to excuse them at all, but what I mean is that Blizzard is supporting those guys now and pretty much ignoring those of us who want to play, dare I say it, the traditional way that you mention in the post quoted above.
What do people do when they get the best equipment? They try to win everything. They're just like those who play FPSes in godmode. I think there are some people who have so many insecurities in real life they will do whatever it takes to win at something 100% of the time.
The economic game is different, but I think that players are in general over-estimating how much they will be earning if they try to make their living off of D3. They will be charged three times by Blizzard for anything they sell. If there is serious deflation, a problem that many games with a hybrid real money market face (look at EVE), then they will really be earning virtually nothing at all.
I would of course be curious to find out if anyone *can* make a living doing this, since this is one of the main arguments in support of this. Average people will be pitted against already industrialised farmers...
I also wonder whether any governments will get involved, considering that these models are crossing the lines more and more into real markets and of course the governments might want their "share"...
Yeah people who live in first world countries are not going to be able to make anything resembling a living from the RMAH in D3. I mean, if you're trying to make a profit from D3, you have to treat it like a business because that's what it is. It's just like if you opened a lemonade stand. Except in D3, you're basically competing with every player in the game because they are playing the game and getting items as well. So it's like you opened a lemonade stand in a neighborhood where everyone has a lemonade stand.
In addition, you have even more competition from people that only have to pay a penny for lemonade when you have to pay a quarter (Chinese gold farmers). What do you think will happen to your lemonade business in this environment? Prices are going to shoot down from over supply, and you're going to get driven out of the market by the Chinese lemonade makers because of their lower cost of labor...just like in real life.
RMT is the future, I accept this, but don't support it.
I'd prefer that MMO developers "fight the good fight" but it is apparent they're going to take the path of least resistance (and perhaps higher revenue) and incorporate it into the game model.
It could backfire on them however, in the F2P world only about 10% of the playerbase is willing to spend real world cash and that's a pretty small market to divide across multiple games.
It certainly will alienate a number of gamers who may not play MMO's anymore which will be a big loss in revenue.
Time will tell.
(BTW, did I mention I hate posting in blogs in this forum, the editing tools are too poor)
It doesn't make sense to fight a fight you can't win. Developers aren't soldiers fighting the good fight, they are businesses, with mouths to feed and people to fleece.
Blizzard is at least taking the idea that they will act as a market for goods, not as a supplier. It's the best solution possible, given the scenario and the landscape.
I'm not convinced the war is unwinnable, but I will concede it is probably more profitable not to make the attempt and if you can't beat them, join them.
We'll see in the long run how well this works out for them. One problem is it appears they may require players to pay to list their items, if so I can see alternate marketing channels opening up elsewhere that perhaps don't require payment until the sells.
They said a limited number of postings per account would be free. They didn't say it that was a fixed number for the life of the account, or a fixed number per month/year etc.
They said the listing fee was to discourage the kind of spam on the auction house some people are worried about. So if you just casually use it, there shouldn't be a listing fee until you've used up your free posts, which may take awhile if you reserve them only for the rarest, most valuable items.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
RMT is the future, I accept this, but don't support it.
I'd prefer that MMO developers "fight the good fight" but it is apparent they're going to take the path of least resistance (and perhaps higher revenue) and incorporate it into the game model.
It could backfire on them however, in the F2P world only about 10% of the playerbase is willing to spend real world cash and that's a pretty small market to divide across multiple games.
It certainly will alienate a number of gamers who may not play MMO's anymore which will be a big loss in revenue.
Time will tell.
(BTW, did I mention I hate posting in blogs in this forum, the editing tools are too poor)
It doesn't make sense to fight a fight you can't win. Developers aren't soldiers fighting the good fight, they are businesses, with mouths to feed and people to fleece.
Blizzard is at least taking the idea that they will act as a market for goods, not as a supplier. It's the best solution possible, given the scenario and the landscape.
I'm not convinced the war is unwinnable, but I will concede it is probably more profitable not to make the attempt and if you can't beat them, join them.
We'll see in the long run how well this works out for them. One problem is it appears they may require players to pay to list their items, if so I can see alternate marketing channels opening up elsewhere that perhaps don't require payment until the sells.
They said a limited number of postings per account would be free. They didn't say it that was a fixed number for the life of the account, or a fixed number per month/year etc.
They said the listing fee was to discourage the kind of spam on the auction house some people are worried about. So if you just casually use it, there shouldn't be a listing fee until you've used up your free posts, which may take awhile if you reserve them only for the rarest, most valuable items.
That's a great idea. In fact, in order to encourage less spam on these forums, I propose that everyone pays me a nickel for every post they make.
RMT is the future, I accept this, but don't support it.
I'd prefer that MMO developers "fight the good fight" but it is apparent they're going to take the path of least resistance (and perhaps higher revenue) and incorporate it into the game model.
It could backfire on them however, in the F2P world only about 10% of the playerbase is willing to spend real world cash and that's a pretty small market to divide across multiple games.
It certainly will alienate a number of gamers who may not play MMO's anymore which will be a big loss in revenue.
Time will tell.
(BTW, did I mention I hate posting in blogs in this forum, the editing tools are too poor)
It doesn't make sense to fight a fight you can't win. Developers aren't soldiers fighting the good fight, they are businesses, with mouths to feed and people to fleece.
Blizzard is at least taking the idea that they will act as a market for goods, not as a supplier. It's the best solution possible, given the scenario and the landscape.
I'm not convinced the war is unwinnable, but I will concede it is probably more profitable not to make the attempt and if you can't beat them, join them.
We'll see in the long run how well this works out for them. One problem is it appears they may require players to pay to list their items, if so I can see alternate marketing channels opening up elsewhere that perhaps don't require payment until the sells.
They said a limited number of postings per account would be free. They didn't say it that was a fixed number for the life of the account, or a fixed number per month/year etc.
They said the listing fee was to discourage the kind of spam on the auction house some people are worried about. So if you just casually use it, there shouldn't be a listing fee until you've used up your free posts, which may take awhile if you reserve them only for the rarest, most valuable items.
That's a great idea. In fact, in order to encourage less spam on these forums, I propose that everyone pays me a nickel for every post they make.
Wow, I feel so altruistic .
That would work, but you would have to offer some free posts or you might end up with a dead forum, and also require something more definitive when registering then an e-mail address.
Design, gotta love it.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
Comments
It was expected, to be honest. Selling gold in WoW is so rampant, sellers cant' really meet the demand. I know personally some of the "small-time" sellers (5 PCs with 50 accounts working 24/7).
MMO without an economy would be sorely lacking and hardly so addictive.
Therefore, we have abuses of the economy. But when you really think of the old saying - time is money - it makes a bit of sense that some people, without money, choose to spend time to achive whatever they aim to achieve, while others, who have money (they "grinded" it in RL :P), and not much time, choose to spent the money and not the time.
The one worry could be hacking/exploiting bugs: what if a person finds a way to "dupe" items or aquire them due to bugs, and then sells many of those for RL cash? It would seem to be a much more serious matter than before, maybe even involving the police (with realID and paypal and whatnot).
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
another blizzard cash hog....PASS
I was looking forward to D3 for the longest time. And then Actiblizz pulls this stunt to turn it's playerbase into a sweatshop. That's it for me with Blizzard. No more chances. I'm done.
You know...
My opinion is that if you're playing a game that is primarily about leveling up and getting loot through fighting monsters and what not, yet you would rather just pay money for said loot...then you probably shouldn't be playing the game. You're doing it wrong. You could just buy the game, spend $100 or so to get the best equipment in the game, and then quit on day one.
What are you going to do after you get the best equipment anyway? People normally play the game in order to get good equipment...if you just buy it, then you defeated the purpose of the game. You may as well just not play the game at all in that case.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Before I comment on this quote, I would like to say that when I made my last post, I didn't realize there was no single player option in D3. That means there's very little chance of my buying it unless it turns out to be absolutely amazing.
Back to this post:
I agree that the main premises of a dungeon crawl are getting more loot, fighting monsters, exploring new environments and building characters. However, I do remember a lot of players in D2 playing the economic game, even back in the late 1990s early 2000s.
This is not to excuse them at all, but what I mean is that Blizzard is supporting those guys now and pretty much ignoring those of us who want to play, dare I say it, the traditional way that you mention in the post quoted above.
What do people do when they get the best equipment? They try to win everything. They're just like those who play FPSes in godmode. I think there are some people who have so many insecurities in real life they will do whatever it takes to win at something 100% of the time.
The economic game is different, but I think that players are in general over-estimating how much they will be earning if they try to make their living off of D3. They will be charged three times by Blizzard for anything they sell. If there is serious deflation, a problem that many games with a hybrid real money market face (look at EVE), then they will really be earning virtually nothing at all.
I would of course be curious to find out if anyone *can* make a living doing this, since this is one of the main arguments in support of this. Average people will be pitted against already industrialised farmers...
I also wonder whether any governments will get involved, considering that these models are crossing the lines more and more into real markets and of course the governments might want their "share"...
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I think that Alot isn't interested in Diablo 3 at all.
im actually not picking up D3 for a few reasons:
- PVP balancing wont be the priority as theyve advertised already; LoL will be far ahead of D3 in terms of PVP and it's free
- people who are willing to spend more RL money than me will rock me in pvp because of RMT'd gear
- the concept itself is outdated; they know this, and they added the RMT option to milk idiots who are willing to pay
- with TOR and GW2 around the corner, why would anyone give a damn about D3? i know many will but...why?
D3 would have been cool 4 years ago, with modding and no RMT.
People over exagerate the competiveness of Diablo.... Diablo 2 was never competitive at all except maybe for ladder wipes and then the 1week rush to see who can get 99 first on a hardcore character, and even then it was mostly always hammerdin bots or some such shit.
People are spazzing out over this RMT for Diablo 3 as if its going to ruin some sort of competitve aspect of the game? I don't understand...Lets say even for arguments sake that the D3 pvp scene goes into e-sports, if loot is a major factor in the equation here then you're already detracting majorly from the e-sports appeal.... and even then, the competitive aspect isnt "whos got the best gear" because everyone will have the best gear in order to compete.
Games like Diablo where the more time you spend playing the more "powerful" you become have NEVER been on an equal playing field in terms of the competive aspect, you want really want to be competitve on an equal playing field? Then go play a game where skill is the only factor that comes into play, and not RNG. SC2 comes to mind.
Personally, I see this RMT as an extra way of benefiting from spending time infront of the computer, because not only am I being rewarding with the joy and pleasure of playing a video game, I can make some money at it too.
tl;dr ITT Butthurt people who cant/wont spend money on Diablo 3 because they hold some sort of grand illusions that without the RMT the playing field would be equal. Derp.
Who said anything about being equal. If people wanted to be equal they wouldn't play a loot-centric game to begin with. They would play a FPS or a RTS. I think you missed the whole point of it all.
The point is you fight monsters in order to become more powerful. Not pay money to become more powerful. It has nothing to do with being rich or poor or being equal. Say it with me "progression based game"
Diablo's have always been crappy hack 'n slash games, what on earth would make this 3rd installment of the same dung change the world or the future? 3d-graphics?
If I wanted to be in a 'pay 2 win' environment, I'd go back to RL.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
I will never support this kind of greedyness, Diablo 3 can go to hell.
For the same reason I haven't supported any of the DLC for any game at all.
And now time will tell that do I have to tell swtor to go to hell too, hope not, but I will If I have to.
mmorpg.com, the 4chan of mmo forums.
I'm not convinced the war is unwinnable, but I will concede it is probably more profitable not to make the attempt and if you can't beat them, join them.
We'll see in the long run how well this works out for them. One problem is it appears they may require players to pay to list their items, if so I can see alternate marketing channels opening up elsewhere that perhaps don't require payment until the sells.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah people who live in first world countries are not going to be able to make anything resembling a living from the RMAH in D3. I mean, if you're trying to make a profit from D3, you have to treat it like a business because that's what it is. It's just like if you opened a lemonade stand. Except in D3, you're basically competing with every player in the game because they are playing the game and getting items as well. So it's like you opened a lemonade stand in a neighborhood where everyone has a lemonade stand.
In addition, you have even more competition from people that only have to pay a penny for lemonade when you have to pay a quarter (Chinese gold farmers). What do you think will happen to your lemonade business in this environment? Prices are going to shoot down from over supply, and you're going to get driven out of the market by the Chinese lemonade makers because of their lower cost of labor...just like in real life.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
They said a limited number of postings per account would be free. They didn't say it that was a fixed number for the life of the account, or a fixed number per month/year etc.
They said the listing fee was to discourage the kind of spam on the auction house some people are worried about. So if you just casually use it, there shouldn't be a listing fee until you've used up your free posts, which may take awhile if you reserve them only for the rarest, most valuable items.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
That's a great idea. In fact, in order to encourage less spam on these forums, I propose that everyone pays me a nickel for every post they make.
Wow, I feel so altruistic
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
That would work, but you would have to offer some free posts or you might end up with a dead forum, and also require something more definitive when registering then an e-mail address.
Design, gotta love it.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt