I haven't followed this game very closely but it is starting to peak my interest. I still don't understand how the "soft trinity" is going to solve grouping issues. The reason most people don't play tanks and healers is because they don't like the mechanics. How is this going to change just because you can play anyone of the three? I see it more as people being in groups and the last person to say "not it" is the healer lol.
I haven't followed this game very closely but it is starting to peak my interest. I still don't understand how the "soft trinity" is going to solve grouping issues. The reason most people don't play tanks and healers is because they don't like the mechanics. How is this going to change just because you can play anyone of the three? I see it more as people being in groups and the last person to say "not it" is the healer lol.
Don't get stuck on the words "soft trinity" either. There is no healer or tank in the traditional sence. There are no taunt mechanics so there are no real tanks though you can play with aggro by being the closest to the mob. There are no target heals so there are really no healers though you can have support skils that add healing aoe's and ground heals. No target healing means no one person will be tanking mobs, though you can still make youself the type of character that can survive and mitigate damage better than others through weapon of choice and skillset. the games combat mechanics are going to involve more placement and movement, and less 122314 button mashing type combat.
If the game is peaking your interest then there is a lot of information on the game.
I think WoW did a diservice to the idea of roles in groups. In Everquest there was the tank, healer, damage, and control. In any dungeon group, you needed all four of these plus a support role that could have been a backup tank, or an extra damage, or off healer. WoW should have expanded upon it and fixed the flaws in the system. Instead, they dumbed it down and threw that all away by getting rid of control, and support roles, and making the groups favor tank, healer, and 3 damage.
I don't completely agree with this. I do agree that the end result was the irrelevance of crowd control, but WoW didn't purposely just say, "Let's dumb this down and get rid of crowd control in our dungeons and raids." The true problem was the introduction of the "welfare epics" into the game. This messed up the itemization to such a level that people basically out-paced the instance/raid content to the point they could just zerg through it. Crowd control was needed for the beginning of every new raid tier, but unfortunately the ease by which players could pick up epic gear and the poor itemization meant that it wasn't too long before they could just bum rush the content without having to CC anything. Blizzard decided to bring CC back into the game for Cataclysm, or at least that was their plan. Unfortunately, they went about it the wrong way. If they really wanted to bring it back, and make it important, they would have scaled back on the gear and gotten rid of the token system for purchasing epics. Instead, they just made the mobs more difficult. But it took a few months before that became irrelevant and people were back to zerging everything again. They had the right idea...they just went about fixing it the wrong way. They treated the symptom instead of the actual disease.
The good thing about Guild Wars 2 is that it isn't a game designed to accumulate gear, and there are no raids. So hopefully, this makes the dungeons more challenging and requiring of more teamwork, particularly because of the absence of the Trinity.
It was the 'mages are going to be more of a ranged profession' part which I was arguing rather than anything about sturdiest or hardiest.
Necromancers can tank effectively, the developers have said this (I think TubeElephant's latest video has the quote). They're said to be one of the hardest professions to kill. They have effective melee claw and bite attacks. Similarly, the best Elementalist player I've seen darted in and out of melee combat. Drake's claw might have a 'long' range for a close ranged attack but Burning Speed, Lightning Whip, Flame Touch, Cone of Cold, Drake's Breath, Armour of Frost and Frozen Burst all work better in melee or are outright unusable without bringing the player into the faces of their opponents. (Fixed for my own needs) The devs have suggested that Eles, too, can tank.
-Removed for spacial reasons-
From what I remember, those are mid range skills. So there can be someone closer to the enemy causing the proximity aggro. Thus, causing a mage to still be ranged.
I never said that they were stuck in the ranged category. I merely meant it to mean that's probably what people are going to do with the Elementalist because that, being ranged or using raged abilities, is what people are used to from other MMO's. Yes, I'm quite sure the closer up skills will be completely viable and useful, just like a Warrior going ranged with a bow. My apologies for not clarifying that earlier with an edit and what not. However, both ranged and melee combat are supposedly just as useful, it's just what the situation is I guess. And I greatly doubt that the Necromancer will be the hardest profession to kill once everything is tweaked for balance.
Edit- Take note that Energy cost on skills has been removed. This makes me happy, so energy is used mainly for dodging now.
I think it would be bad ass if both the necro and elementalist could use daggers or other types of melee weapons and suddenly become straight up melee DPS.
would be cool for those ranged unfriendly fights or just cool for a change of pace when u get tired of casting.
I haven't followed this game very closely but it is starting to peak my interest. I still don't understand how the "soft trinity" is going to solve grouping issues. The reason most people don't play tanks and healers is because they don't like the mechanics. How is this going to change just because you can play anyone of the three? I see it more as people being in groups and the last person to say "not it" is the healer lol.
Don't get stuck on the words "soft trinity" either. There is no healer or tank in the traditional sence. There are no taunt mechanics so there are no real tanks though you can play with aggro by being the closest to the mob. There are no target heals so there are really no healers though you can have support skils that add healing aoe's and ground heals. No target healing means no one person will be tanking mobs, though you can still make youself the type of character that can survive and mitigate damage better than others through weapon of choice and skillset. the games combat mechanics are going to involve more placement and movement, and less 122314 button mashing type combat.
If the game is peaking your interest then there is a lot of information on the game.
I just wanted to support this response and add to it a bit too. As Flaw mentioned there aren't traditional tanks or healers and no targetted heals. There is also a focus on controlling the battlefield and also mitigating damage as well. With the recent addition of a bindable dodge button, dodging damage is going to be a key component of survival and death. There are also many other ways for players to support one another.
Such as a Guardian's abillity to place a seal on the ground that can trap enemies in a specific location for a short peiod, or their ability to create a shield that will prevent damage for those who stand within it for a short period.
Aggro is simply whoever is the closest, so everyone can share in grabbing the attention of their foes to lighten the load on someone else. Weaving in and out of close range will also be a key component of supporting your team.
Engineers have also been said to be able to lay an area of effect healing patch on the ground, so your team can run in and get healed. Not to mention that it seems that Elementalists in water focus heal their friends passively when they attack enemies.
Warriors can block things like breath attacks with their shield, so that can become an actual wall to shield their friends for a peroid.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The "soft trinity" is simply a description for lack of a better way of describing the system within GW2. Bottom line is that you won't be sitting around waiting for a specific class to fill in a specific role, since all professions can fill multiple roles. There will be multiple ways to overcome whatever you are up against.
From what I remember, those are mid range skills. So there can be someone closer to the enemy causing the proximity aggro. Thus, causing a mage to still be ranged.
I never said that they were stuck in the ranged category. I merely meant it to mean that's probably what people are going to do with the Elementalist because that, being ranged or using raged abilities, is what people are used to from other MMO's. Yes, I'm quite sure the closer up skills will be completely viable and useful, just like a Warrior going ranged with a bow. My apologies for not clarifying that earlier with an edit and what not. However, both ranged and melee combat are supposedly just as useful, it's just what the situation is I guess. And I greatly doubt that the Necromancer will be the hardest profession to kill once everything is tweaked for balance.
Lightning Whip is actually very close range. It's like a foot or two ahead of the Elementalist at best in that video.
Ah, yes, there is the 'used to it'/familiarity issue, but that's something that causes me less concern now than it has in the past. There are no healers and the fact that elements of the game can be solo'd is going to force people into adapting quicker than I previously expected. Elementalists are going to have to play like Tim in certain areas to avoid getting downed very quickly. There will probably be those who try to tank with Warriors and DPS with fire elementalists stood behind them but those who don't eventually recognise the flexibility in their classes will probably be left behind, especially when it comes to PvP.
The Necromancer is intended to be one of the hardest professions to kill. The developers have commented with pride on the fact that it's not as squishy as traditional casters. I can perhaps see the Guardian being harder to kill due to its very defense/protection based skills but the Necromancer will be up there.
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
From what I remember, those are mid range skills. So there can be someone closer to the enemy causing the proximity aggro. Thus, causing a mage to still be ranged.
I never said that they were stuck in the ranged category. I merely meant it to mean that's probably what people are going to do with the Elementalist because that, being ranged or using raged abilities, is what people are used to from other MMO's. Yes, I'm quite sure the closer up skills will be completely viable and useful, just like a Warrior going ranged with a bow. My apologies for not clarifying that earlier with an edit and what not. However, both ranged and melee combat are supposedly just as useful, it's just what the situation is I guess. And I greatly doubt that the Necromancer will be the hardest profession to kill once everything is tweaked for balance.
Lightning Whip is actually very close range. It's like a foot or two ahead of the Elementalist at best in that video.
Ah, yes, there is the 'used to it'/familiarity issue, but that's something that causes me less concern now than it has in the past. There are no healers and the fact that elements of the game can be solo'd is going to force people into adapting quicker than I previously expected. Elementalists are going to have to play like Tim in certain areas to avoid getting downed very quickly. There will probably be those who try to tank with Warriors and DPS with fire elementalists stood behind them but those who don't eventually recognise the flexibility in their classes will probably be left behind, especially when it comes to PvP.
The Necromancer is intended to be one of the hardest professions to kill. The developers have commented with pride on the fact that it's not as squishy as traditional casters. I can perhaps see the Guardian being harder to kill due to its very defense/protection based skills but the Necromancer will be up there.
I agree with you. People will have to adapt to a new kind of playstyle. Instead of doing only fill 1 role, they'll have to fill 3. Flexibility is something that you'll need in order to shine in this game.
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Comments
I haven't followed this game very closely but it is starting to peak my interest. I still don't understand how the "soft trinity" is going to solve grouping issues. The reason most people don't play tanks and healers is because they don't like the mechanics. How is this going to change just because you can play anyone of the three? I see it more as people being in groups and the last person to say "not it" is the healer lol.
Don't get stuck on the words "soft trinity" either. There is no healer or tank in the traditional sence. There are no taunt mechanics so there are no real tanks though you can play with aggro by being the closest to the mob. There are no target heals so there are really no healers though you can have support skils that add healing aoe's and ground heals. No target healing means no one person will be tanking mobs, though you can still make youself the type of character that can survive and mitigate damage better than others through weapon of choice and skillset. the games combat mechanics are going to involve more placement and movement, and less 122314 button mashing type combat.
If the game is peaking your interest then there is a lot of information on the game.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I'm glad the holy trinity will not be present in this game. Also the game looks great visually.
I don't completely agree with this. I do agree that the end result was the irrelevance of crowd control, but WoW didn't purposely just say, "Let's dumb this down and get rid of crowd control in our dungeons and raids." The true problem was the introduction of the "welfare epics" into the game. This messed up the itemization to such a level that people basically out-paced the instance/raid content to the point they could just zerg through it. Crowd control was needed for the beginning of every new raid tier, but unfortunately the ease by which players could pick up epic gear and the poor itemization meant that it wasn't too long before they could just bum rush the content without having to CC anything. Blizzard decided to bring CC back into the game for Cataclysm, or at least that was their plan. Unfortunately, they went about it the wrong way. If they really wanted to bring it back, and make it important, they would have scaled back on the gear and gotten rid of the token system for purchasing epics. Instead, they just made the mobs more difficult. But it took a few months before that became irrelevant and people were back to zerging everything again. They had the right idea...they just went about fixing it the wrong way. They treated the symptom instead of the actual disease.
The good thing about Guild Wars 2 is that it isn't a game designed to accumulate gear, and there are no raids. So hopefully, this makes the dungeons more challenging and requiring of more teamwork, particularly because of the absence of the Trinity.
From what I remember, those are mid range skills. So there can be someone closer to the enemy causing the proximity aggro. Thus, causing a mage to still be ranged.
I never said that they were stuck in the ranged category. I merely meant it to mean that's probably what people are going to do with the Elementalist because that, being ranged or using raged abilities, is what people are used to from other MMO's. Yes, I'm quite sure the closer up skills will be completely viable and useful, just like a Warrior going ranged with a bow. My apologies for not clarifying that earlier with an edit and what not. However, both ranged and melee combat are supposedly just as useful, it's just what the situation is I guess. And I greatly doubt that the Necromancer will be the hardest profession to kill once everything is tweaked for balance.
Edit- Take note that Energy cost on skills has been removed. This makes me happy, so energy is used mainly for dodging now.
I think it would be bad ass if both the necro and elementalist could use daggers or other types of melee weapons and suddenly become straight up melee DPS.
would be cool for those ranged unfriendly fights or just cool for a change of pace when u get tired of casting.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
I just wanted to support this response and add to it a bit too. As Flaw mentioned there aren't traditional tanks or healers and no targetted heals. There is also a focus on controlling the battlefield and also mitigating damage as well. With the recent addition of a bindable dodge button, dodging damage is going to be a key component of survival and death. There are also many other ways for players to support one another.
Such as a Guardian's abillity to place a seal on the ground that can trap enemies in a specific location for a short peiod, or their ability to create a shield that will prevent damage for those who stand within it for a short period.
Aggro is simply whoever is the closest, so everyone can share in grabbing the attention of their foes to lighten the load on someone else. Weaving in and out of close range will also be a key component of supporting your team.
Engineers have also been said to be able to lay an area of effect healing patch on the ground, so your team can run in and get healed. Not to mention that it seems that Elementalists in water focus heal their friends passively when they attack enemies.
Warriors can block things like breath attacks with their shield, so that can become an actual wall to shield their friends for a peroid.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The "soft trinity" is simply a description for lack of a better way of describing the system within GW2. Bottom line is that you won't be sitting around waiting for a specific class to fill in a specific role, since all professions can fill multiple roles. There will be multiple ways to overcome whatever you are up against.
Lightning Whip is actually very close range. It's like a foot or two ahead of the Elementalist at best in that video.
Ah, yes, there is the 'used to it'/familiarity issue, but that's something that causes me less concern now than it has in the past. There are no healers and the fact that elements of the game can be solo'd is going to force people into adapting quicker than I previously expected. Elementalists are going to have to play like Tim in certain areas to avoid getting downed very quickly. There will probably be those who try to tank with Warriors and DPS with fire elementalists stood behind them but those who don't eventually recognise the flexibility in their classes will probably be left behind, especially when it comes to PvP.
The Necromancer is intended to be one of the hardest professions to kill. The developers have commented with pride on the fact that it's not as squishy as traditional casters. I can perhaps see the Guardian being harder to kill due to its very defense/protection based skills but the Necromancer will be up there.
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
I agree with you. People will have to adapt to a new kind of playstyle. Instead of doing only fill 1 role, they'll have to fill 3. Flexibility is something that you'll need in order to shine in this game.
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Check out my YouTube Channel for LOADS of info on Guild Wars 2!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TubeElephant