Its sounding better and better the more I hear... And oddly enough I'm looking forward to the space battle mini-game, and more than ever being able to get quality gear through the social system.
Oh, has it ever been said if there will be an achievement system built in at launch? I love to run around and earn those things...it gives me so many additional things to do and its fun!
they haven't talked about an achievement system as of yet that i know of. i believe its one of those things that gets met with "we aren't talking about that right now." however they have mentioned things they think would make good achievements in the past, such playing through the game with out a companion. so wouldn't suprised me if there was however nothings been said yet.
although i can tell you that it appears there will not be an achievement for first to lvl cap.
I don't think we have talked about this topic at all, so this thread is based on a guess, I suppose.
I don't see us rewarding people for rushing through the story either.
this was in response to someone asking about server first to cap
Well, I'm talking more like the traditional achievements like complete so many quests in each zone, or planet in this case, or explore everywhere. Maybe a talk to and listen to every NPC in the game would be fun. Bioware is right though, and that rushing to the cap should never be rewarded. Its like, "oh yay u skipped over tons of content and story and exploration and having fun with others...cookie?"
Oh, has it ever been said if there will be an achievement system built in at launch? I love to run around and earn those things...it gives me so many additional things to do and its fun!
Yes, there will be an Achievement System.
When talking about achivements: Quote: They’re a big part of MMOs. We are going to have achievements in the game, but the types will depend upon how many we can get in for launch. - AskAJedi
“Companion characters will not be able to die,” said Jeff, “we try not to let players do things that will hurt themselves. Companions can, however, be hurt, be captured, and not be able to adventure with your for a while.”
This is what makes me wanna cry. I don't want a game where my father will hold my hand... If I do stupid things I should be hurt, if I jump off a cliff I should die.
Whats up with the handholding?
Their goal is millions of players, not thousands of players. Things like killing your character are counter to that goal. It's a game, not a virtual world.
I don't talk about perma death or even item loss. But the fact that a player can't do bad choices and somehow suffer for it is a bit childish. It's Star Wars, not Winnie the Pooh.
I wasn't referring to permadeath or anything of the kind. You asked what was up with the hand holding. They want millions of players. You get millions of players by making the game casual - holding the players hands (binding the players hands) for some things.
I'm sure you'll be able to kill yourself just fine, you just won't do it by accidentally walking off a platform in a sky city.
** edit **
I've strayed a bit from the topic I think. The general idea still holds though. The hand holding is there because there are more people who want to play games than there are people who want to live in virtual worlds. Bioware is appealing to the people who want to play games.
Hmm..A quick reminder is in place here..A "player" is always a "player" it's just diffrent preferences you are talking about..
Sadly only few "players" like to live in virtuals worlds, but they are still playing a game but a game that gives the player alot more options and dangers to think about. If you think of it as as an extra level of added difficulty. Whats wrong with that ?
I know alot of you seem to think that all of us that likes to play in a virtual world also likes to torture ourselves with things that takes forever and make the game a pain to play just for the sake of realism..But I think that is all wrong, I like a challenge and if certain features gives a specific game an extra level of difficulty , Im all for it..
An example, In D&D online you walk super slow when you run across water patches, this gives the game a strategic advantage/disadvantage in combat ..and an extra level of difficulty in certain situations...
But obviously alot more players like to be handheld and not punished for anything, as they are "playing a game", soon however they wont be playing a game any more. Instead the computer have your avatar walking in robotic path shooting targets on rails , and you wont even have to press fire , because that single action is macroed with your new flashy keyboard.
Oh, has it ever been said if there will be an achievement system built in at launch? I love to run around and earn those things...it gives me so many additional things to do and its fun!
Yes, there will be an Achievement System.
When talking about achivements: Quote: They’re a big part of MMOs. We are going to have achievements in the game, but the types will depend upon how many we can get in for launch. - AskAJedi
All Bioware is trying to do is prevent players from doing something game-breaking.
Having a companion character permanently die is fairly game breaking, based upon the nature of how companions work and how much they add to your story and game play experience.
The example they used before was along the lines of -
Imagine you only get one companion capable of tanking for you. You do something stupid and get the companion killed, the game is forever changed and not in a good way. That's a game breaker.
People will re-roll a toon to prevent that much needed companion from being killed.
That's not a question of difficulty, it's a question of playability.
They weighed the pros and cons, and the cons far outweighed to pros. Having a companion die was just too huge of a game breaker.
Perma-death of a companion is not quite as severe as perma-death of the player character, obviously, but they felt it was far too harsh for 99.99% of the people who are going to be playing this game.
I think if someone decides to incapacitate their companion (not kill them), and remove them from their service, they should be able to do so. Then, when they realized they have crippled their gameplay, they can perform a quest (going to a certain location, such as the character's starting zone) to beg forgiveness and have them restored.
This approach probably won't work given most of the dialogue story probably assumes the companion is there, but would have been a nice way of allowing more choices.
I think if someone decides to incapacitate their companion (not kill them), and remove them from their service, they should be able to do so. Then, when they realized they have crippled their gameplay, they can perform a quest (going to a certain location, such as the character's starting zone) to beg forgiveness and have them restored.
This approach probably won't work given most of the dialogue story probably assumes the companion is there, but would have been a nice way of allowing more choices.
“Companion characters will not be able to die,” said Rich, “we try not to let players do things that will hurt themselves. Companions can, however, be hurt, be captured, and not be able to adventure with your for a while.”
I think Bioware was thinking on the same way that you are, because they stated that companions can be hurt , captured and not be able to adventure with you for a while, they just didn't tell you how they can be restored. So probably something along the lines of a quest could be possible.
People enjoy being hand helded when playing a game, because it allow them to spend time on other parts of the game. Without worries, but still sometimes its nice to be challenged and have your actions reflected regardless how stupid and idiotic it is.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I think if someone decides to incapacitate their companion (not kill them), and remove them from their service, they should be able to do so.
I think that is just pandering to the death penalty online sadist crowd. Reality is that most don't want that for their companions...these are player aids nothing more in my opinion.
Originally posted by Madatan Companion characters will not be able to die, said Jeff, we try not to let players do things that will hurt themselves. Companions can, however, be hurt, be captured, and not be able to adventure with your for a while. This is what makes me wanna cry. I don't want a game where my father will hold my hand... If I do stupid things I should be hurt, if I jump off a cliff I should die. Whats up with the handholding?
Their goal is millions of players, not thousands of players. Things like killing your character are counter to that goal. It's a game, not a virtual world.
I don't talk about perma death or even item loss. But the fact that a player can't do bad choices and somehow suffer for it is a bit childish. It's Star Wars, not Winnie the Pooh.
I wasn't referring to permadeath or anything of the kind. You asked what was up with the hand holding. They want millions of players. You get millions of players by making the game casual - holding the players hands (binding the players hands) for some things.
I'm sure you'll be able to kill yourself just fine, you just won't do it by accidentally walking off a platform in a sky city.
** edit ** I've strayed a bit from the topic I think. The general idea still holds though. The hand holding is there because there are more people who want to play games than there are people who want to live in virtual worlds. Bioware is appealing to the people who want to play games.
Hmm..A quick reminder is in place here..A "player" is always a "player" it's just diffrent preferences you are talking about.. Sadly only few "players" like to live in virtuals worlds, but they are still playing a game but a game that gives the player alot more options and dangers to think about. If you think of it as as an extra level of added difficulty. Whats wrong with that ? I know alot of you seem to think that all of us that likes to play in a virtual world also likes to torture ourselves with things that takes forever and make the game a pain to play just for the sake of realism..But I think that is all wrong, I like a challenge and if certain features gives a specific game an extra level of difficulty , Im all for it.. An example, In D&D online you walk super slow when you run across water patches, this gives the game a strategic advantage/disadvantage in combat ..and an extra level of difficulty in certain situations... But obviously alot more players like to be handheld and not punished for anything, as they are "playing a game", soon however they wont be playing a game any more. Instead the computer have your avatar walking in robotic path shooting targets on rails , and you wont even have to press fire , because that single action is macroed with your new flashy keyboard.
I was referring to the range of play between "Game" and "Virtual World". Bioware is working on the "Game" end of the spectrum, not the "Virtual World" end of the spectrum.
"Virtual World" = Your companions can die. Once dead, you have to hire a new one or you just don't get another one. The player's choices, not the story determines the companion's fate. The companions are not just an extension of the player's avatar.
"Game" = Your companions don't die, but can be incapacitated as necessary to further the story. The player's choices have an impact on the companion's fate, but only within the bounds set by the story. The companions are really just extensions of the player's avatar.
** edit ** I don't necessarily have a preference. I do want it to be consistent and well done. I think Bioware is playing to their strengths, so it should be consistent and pretty well done.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
SAY NO to handholding. That is an utterly riduculous decision, essentially preventing us from making mature decisons. Is this game designed for children or adults? I'm starting to wonder what the average IQ is they're gearing it towards. Maybe they expect a lot of WoW players? (haha just kidding guys...).
I think we (adults) are perfectly capable of taking responsilbilty (with understanding and warning signs) for killing a companion. I may sincerely want to kill one of my companions. And now they're going to stop me? Because I will be at a disadvantage? I don't care, this is an RPG! An MMORPG. It's Star Wars! It'll be even better if I make myself into a moron for doing such a thing.
Concerning immersion, it would defintely make it better. It IS just a game; however, who's to say we can't make high stake decisions and take huge risks and feel the weight of those choices later on? I think it would be fun, but I also see where the typical gamer would be searching for their undo button. Nevertheless, this is a MMORPG, there is no such thing as load and save and reload. And while I'm thinking of it, it may just be a game but that doesn't mean you need to act like a prick from behind your computer screen.
But anyway... we can resurrect? other players , so why not just be able to resurrect an NPC kept preserved or something if we kill them off? Better yet, just freeze them in carbonite while they're alive and call it a day.
Edit: I play Eve out in null sec space with no laws, so understand where I'm coming from
We like to play MMOs because real people aren't as interesting, real exercise and fighting hurts, and virtual females are attractive.
I don't talk about perma death or even item loss. But the fact that a player can't do bad choices and somehow suffer for it is a bit childish. It's Star Wars, not Winnie the Pooh.
Star Wars is pretty campy and light-hearted. I would say Star Wars is like Winnie the Pooh with lightsabers.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Item progression is being reviewed and they are tweaking and changing how some item progression work. “Getting enough looks” was how Rich termed the change of how armor and equipment look as players level from one to 50. They are currently also streamlining the mod system to make it easier to understand. Mods will be.............
oh my oh my!!!! how bioware have got their understanding of charecter looks all wrong and wires all crossed.. its not that we want lots of diffrent looks as we level up!!! its that we want to look unique from every one else..
all this tells me is every one of your level will look pretyt much identicle to your self..
my oh my bioware you have certainly got this wrong! the game already looks dull and boreing and now every one in the game has to wear the same crappyquest rewards as they progress through the levels. this is precisely where lotro went wrong where sto went wrong where wow went wrong. hell its wear all games go wrong.
we dont want to look like every one else at each level.. we want to be unique and design our own image..
and WTF!!! is all that we dont want players to hurt them selves business all about!!! ive played more hardcore console games..than this is going to be.. infact i think sonic the freaking hedghog was more challangeing.
guys all you have to do to know this game is going to be raving pile of shit. is simply read the review above.
this is not what an mmo should be. sorry bioware but your about to tarnish your record with this game.
The good news here is from the space battle quote.
The space game is a real-time tactical shooter and the team is working on better integration into the world story as well as making it more complex yet intuitive. It’s not a part of the game that’s equivalent in scope to the planet based game and will remain that way at launch, in short, it is a mini-game. “A very advanced mini-game,” Rich noted. But when I asked if a full-featured space game was something they have on their long term, future plans for TOR, I was told it wasn’t off the table.
This is huge. Absolutely huge. One of the biggest knocks on this game was the fact that full space combat was NOT part of the initial design. It really hurt the buzz and gave a lot of people a HELL of a lot of pause. I think any SW fan wants open dogfights. Its going to be wild if they actually impliment it. It also shows they're listening. They want to get the game off the ground and maybe change space combat in an expansion. When the NDA gets lifted i'm going to be very intrested to hear more than the grumblings.
I'm hoping for a seperate in-game game for starfighters, as the bigger ships are the subject of the rail-shooter.
“Companion characters will not be able to die,” said Jeff, “we try not to let players do things that will hurt themselves. Companions can, however, be hurt, be captured, and not be able to adventure with your for a while.”
This is what makes me wanna cry. I don't want a game where my father will hold my hand... If I do stupid things I should be hurt, if I jump off a cliff I should die.
Whats up with the handholding?
Their goal is millions of players, not thousands of players. Things like killing your character are counter to that goal. It's a game, not a virtual world.
I don't talk about perma death or even item loss. But the fact that a player can't do bad choices and somehow suffer for it is a bit childish. It's Star Wars, not Winnie the Pooh.
I think it would be more akin to, being a Warlock in wow, and suddenly and permanently losing your ability to summon your main dps pet while soloing. Its a permanent handicap on the player.
I heard a great comedy act tonight and this mentality, the hand holding in MMOs is, "part of the problem." Trophies for participation.
I agree with Mad. I get why TOr is hand holding, but it's not a good thing. It's catering to the lowest common denominator instead of helping players actually improve.
"we want to make sure that the game is accessible to as many people as possible. He's either conveniently forgotten about the Green-zone, red-zone fiasco. Or what he means is accessible to as many people as possible in NA and certain parts of EU only.
I don't talk about perma death or even item loss. But the fact that a player can't do bad choices and somehow suffer for it is a bit childish. It's Star Wars, not Winnie the Pooh.
Star Wars is pretty campy and light-hearted. I would say Star Wars is like Winnie the Pooh with lightsabers.
No Star War is not like Winnie the Pooh but this Bioware version very much is. Actuall sesame street version of Star Wars is more like it. This is going to stink big time. Why people are getting excited about it is beyond me.
Ummm...who made you the coolaid sherrif of the game? Whats with this 'we' stuff? I will tell you what the haters tell the rest of us...don't like it then don't play it. I am kinda curious as to why you TOR haters even bother to post. Ain't gonna change the minds of the millions who will buy and play SWTOR no matter how much you insult the game, or us.
Really hope you find a game you like, I really do. Good luck.
“Companion characters will not be able to die,” said Jeff, “we try not to let players do things that will hurt themselves. Companions can, however, be hurt, be captured, and not be able to adventure with your for a while.”
This is what makes me wanna cry. I don't want a game where my father will hold my hand... If I do stupid things I should be hurt, if I jump off a cliff I should die.
Whats up with the handholding?
Their goal is millions of players, not thousands of players. Things like killing your character are counter to that goal. It's a game, not a virtual world.
Sorry but what has this anything to do whit millions of ppl you dont think that ppl playing swtor anyway if your companion dies.
Comments
Well, I'm talking more like the traditional achievements like complete so many quests in each zone, or planet in this case, or explore everywhere. Maybe a talk to and listen to every NPC in the game would be fun. Bioware is right though, and that rushing to the cap should never be rewarded. Its like, "oh yay u skipped over tons of content and story and exploration and having fun with others...cookie?"
Anyway...
Yes, there will be an Achievement System.
When talking about achivements: Quote: They’re a big part of MMOs. We are going to have achievements in the game, but the types will depend upon how many we can get in for launch. - AskAJedi
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=300223 - Information Gathered on The Old Republic So Far
Is it me or do they seem to be messing with a lot of pretty core stuff very, very close to release?
"The map system is being revamped..."
"Item progression is being reviewed..."
"The social point system ... is also getting another look right now"
"The space game ... working on better integration into the world story as well as making it more complex yet intuitive"
I would have hoped that stuff as core as the map would have been nailed down months ago... hey ho.
Maybe Bioware DID think they were nailed down months ago, but based on tester feedback, felt changes were needed?
Hmm..A quick reminder is in place here..A "player" is always a "player" it's just diffrent preferences you are talking about..
Sadly only few "players" like to live in virtuals worlds, but they are still playing a game but a game that gives the player alot more options and dangers to think about. If you think of it as as an extra level of added difficulty. Whats wrong with that ?
I know alot of you seem to think that all of us that likes to play in a virtual world also likes to torture ourselves with things that takes forever and make the game a pain to play just for the sake of realism..But I think that is all wrong, I like a challenge and if certain features gives a specific game an extra level of difficulty , Im all for it..
An example, In D&D online you walk super slow when you run across water patches, this gives the game a strategic advantage/disadvantage in combat ..and an extra level of difficulty in certain situations...
But obviously alot more players like to be handheld and not punished for anything, as they are "playing a game", soon however they wont be playing a game any more. Instead the computer have your avatar walking in robotic path shooting targets on rails , and you wont even have to press fire , because that single action is macroed with your new flashy keyboard.
That's what happens whe you start bringing in large blocks of testers. Things change.
The last few months of a game's developement usually feature the most tweaks/revisions.
Too late for core system rebuilds, but I'd hardly consider the map being "core."
ah nice find. had missed that
As for the "hand holding" nonsense.
All Bioware is trying to do is prevent players from doing something game-breaking.
Having a companion character permanently die is fairly game breaking, based upon the nature of how companions work and how much they add to your story and game play experience.
The example they used before was along the lines of -
Imagine you only get one companion capable of tanking for you. You do something stupid and get the companion killed, the game is forever changed and not in a good way. That's a game breaker.
People will re-roll a toon to prevent that much needed companion from being killed.
That's not a question of difficulty, it's a question of playability.
They weighed the pros and cons, and the cons far outweighed to pros. Having a companion die was just too huge of a game breaker.
Perma-death of a companion is not quite as severe as perma-death of the player character, obviously, but they felt it was far too harsh for 99.99% of the people who are going to be playing this game.
looks good. I like to hear they are actively improving on various game systems.
I think if someone decides to incapacitate their companion (not kill them), and remove them from their service, they should be able to do so. Then, when they realized they have crippled their gameplay, they can perform a quest (going to a certain location, such as the character's starting zone) to beg forgiveness and have them restored.
This approach probably won't work given most of the dialogue story probably assumes the companion is there, but would have been a nice way of allowing more choices.
“Companion characters will not be able to die,” said Rich, “we try not to let players do things that will hurt themselves. Companions can, however, be hurt, be captured, and not be able to adventure with your for a while.”
I think Bioware was thinking on the same way that you are, because they stated that companions can be hurt , captured and not be able to adventure with you for a while, they just didn't tell you how they can be restored. So probably something along the lines of a quest could be possible.
People enjoy being hand helded when playing a game, because it allow them to spend time on other parts of the game. Without worries, but still sometimes its nice to be challenged and have your actions reflected regardless how stupid and idiotic it is.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I think that is just pandering to the death penalty online sadist crowd. Reality is that most don't want that for their companions...these are player aids nothing more in my opinion.
*sigh*....
just a few more months...
just a few more months...
just a few more months...
*keeps repeating to himself in a corner of his room*
I was referring to the range of play between "Game" and "Virtual World". Bioware is working on the "Game" end of the spectrum, not the "Virtual World" end of the spectrum.
"Virtual World" = Your companions can die. Once dead, you have to hire a new one or you just don't get another one. The player's choices, not the story determines the companion's fate. The companions are not just an extension of the player's avatar.
"Game" = Your companions don't die, but can be incapacitated as necessary to further the story. The player's choices have an impact on the companion's fate, but only within the bounds set by the story. The companions are really just extensions of the player's avatar.
** edit **
I don't necessarily have a preference. I do want it to be consistent and well done. I think Bioware is playing to their strengths, so it should be consistent and pretty well done.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Same here, I am hoping for a release date at Pax.
SAY NO to handholding. That is an utterly riduculous decision, essentially preventing us from making mature decisons. Is this game designed for children or adults? I'm starting to wonder what the average IQ is they're gearing it towards. Maybe they expect a lot of WoW players? (haha just kidding guys...).
I think we (adults) are perfectly capable of taking responsilbilty (with understanding and warning signs) for killing a companion. I may sincerely want to kill one of my companions. And now they're going to stop me? Because I will be at a disadvantage? I don't care, this is an RPG! An MMORPG. It's Star Wars! It'll be even better if I make myself into a moron for doing such a thing.
Concerning immersion, it would defintely make it better. It IS just a game; however, who's to say we can't make high stake decisions and take huge risks and feel the weight of those choices later on? I think it would be fun, but I also see where the typical gamer would be searching for their undo button. Nevertheless, this is a MMORPG, there is no such thing as load and save and reload. And while I'm thinking of it, it may just be a game but that doesn't mean you need to act like a prick from behind your computer screen.
But anyway... we can resurrect? other players , so why not just be able to resurrect an NPC kept preserved or something if we kill them off? Better yet, just freeze them in carbonite while they're alive and call it a day.
Edit: I play Eve out in null sec space with no laws, so understand where I'm coming from
We like to play MMOs because real people aren't as interesting, real exercise and fighting hurts, and virtual females are attractive.
Star Wars is pretty campy and light-hearted. I would say Star Wars is like Winnie the Pooh with lightsabers.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Item progression is being reviewed and they are tweaking and changing how some item progression work. “Getting enough looks” was how Rich termed the change of how armor and equipment look as players level from one to 50. They are currently also streamlining the mod system to make it easier to understand. Mods will be.............
oh my oh my!!!! how bioware have got their understanding of charecter looks all wrong and wires all crossed.. its not that we want lots of diffrent looks as we level up!!! its that we want to look unique from every one else..
all this tells me is every one of your level will look pretyt much identicle to your self..
my oh my bioware you have certainly got this wrong! the game already looks dull and boreing and now every one in the game has to wear the same crappyquest rewards as they progress through the levels. this is precisely where lotro went wrong where sto went wrong where wow went wrong. hell its wear all games go wrong.
we dont want to look like every one else at each level.. we want to be unique and design our own image..
and WTF!!! is all that we dont want players to hurt them selves business all about!!! ive played more hardcore console games..than this is going to be.. infact i think sonic the freaking hedghog was more challangeing.
guys all you have to do to know this game is going to be raving pile of shit. is simply read the review above.
this is not what an mmo should be. sorry bioware but your about to tarnish your record with this game.
yeesh so many tor hate threads. theres like 4 happening simultaneously right now. can we take a break please?
I'm hoping for a seperate in-game game for starfighters, as the bigger ships are the subject of the rail-shooter.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I heard a great comedy act tonight and this mentality, the hand holding in MMOs is, "part of the problem." Trophies for participation.
I agree with Mad. I get why TOr is hand holding, but it's not a good thing. It's catering to the lowest common denominator instead of helping players actually improve.
If you don't worry about it, it's not a problem.
He's either conveniently forgotten about the Green-zone, red-zone fiasco. Or what he means is accessible to as many people as possible in NA and certain parts of EU only.
No Star War is not like Winnie the Pooh but this Bioware version very much is. Actuall sesame street version of Star Wars is more like it. This is going to stink big time. Why people are getting excited about it is beyond me.
Ummm...who made you the coolaid sherrif of the game? Whats with this 'we' stuff? I will tell you what the haters tell the rest of us...don't like it then don't play it. I am kinda curious as to why you TOR haters even bother to post. Ain't gonna change the minds of the millions who will buy and play SWTOR no matter how much you insult the game, or us.
Really hope you find a game you like, I really do. Good luck.
Sorry but what has this anything to do whit millions of ppl you dont think that ppl playing swtor anyway if your companion dies.