While there has been cases of 'shills' paid to sway the opinion of this forum's community, I'd doubt one is defending EA on this thread.
Mainly cause there is nothing to 'sway'.
The user accepted the agreement when the program was installed. Whether the user read the agreement or not is irrelevant.
If I don't read a contract and blindly sign it, that doesn't mean the contract is invalid.
A EULA is not a real contract. Real contracts have neutral parties to verify the signees and cannot be entered by people who are minors (like videogame Eula's attempt to do constantly). A EULA is a bunch of BS because you never are able to verify who really signed it and under what conditions.
I remember while ago, There is a lawsuit about a person selling the Window XP and Microsoft stop that person due to the EULA. Something in the EULA that prevent other person from reselling the Window XP, the problem is that person never open or install Window XP. So he attempt to sell it on ebay, that where Mircosoft got a wift of it and took it to court. The court desicion is that the EULA is a binding contract once you agree to EULA. So basically that person can't sell it, even he didn't agree to it but he open it, so that basically agreeing to EULA. I am trying to find this information, it was really while ago, I believe somewhere in 2005? it was a hot topic back then. I could got some information wrong, this is what I am trying to remember. I remember the court did said that EULA is binding contract and likely to be enforceable. If anyone can find this one, that will be great.
While there has been cases of 'shills' paid to sway the opinion of this forum's community, I'd doubt one is defending EA on this thread.
Mainly cause there is nothing to 'sway'.
The user accepted the agreement when the program was installed. Whether the user read the agreement or not is irrelevant.
If I don't read a contract and blindly sign it, that doesn't mean the contract is invalid.
A EULA is not a real contract. Real contracts have neutral parties to verify the signees and cannot be entered by people who are minors (like videogame Eula's attempt to do constantly). A EULA is a bunch of BS because you never are able to verify who really signed it and under what conditions.
I remember while ago, There is a lawsuit about a person selling the Window XP and Microsoft stop that person due to the EULA. Something in the EULA that prevent other person from reselling the Window XP, the problem is that person never open or install Window XP. So he attempt to sell it on ebay, that where Mircosoft got a wift of it and took it to court. The court desicion is that the EULA is a binding contract once you agree to EULA. So basically that person can't sell it, even he didn't agree to it but he open it, so that basically agreeing to EULA. I am trying to find this information, it was really while ago, I believe somewhere in 2005? it was a hot topic back then. I could got some information wrong, this is what I am trying to remember. I remember the court did said that EULA is binding contract and likely to be enforceable. If anyone can find this one, that will be great.
If I remember correctly, the case was settled out of court and Microsoft pretty much lost. Courts have generaly held that EULA's are a form of contract and therefore potentialy binding (assuming the user is given some opportunity to review the terms of agreement before they agree and are given the opportunity to decline to agree).....but here's the dirty little secret about EULA's...and contracts in general that alot of companies don't want you to know.
Just because something is written in a contract doesn't mean that it is legaly binding or enforceable. Law and satutue trump contracts. For example if there is particular statute that is designed to protect consumers....no contract/EULA on earth can take away your access to that protection. Courts regularly throw out clauses in contracts on such basis.
I was once told by a freind who worked in the field...that about 90 percent of EULA's contain clauses that would never stand up in Court if tested. It's why you often see verbage similar to "If anything in this agreement shall be ruled unenforceable it shall have no bearing on any other portion of this agreement." Most companies seem t o go with a throw as much as you can at the wall and see what sticks approach to EULA's.
As an aside, I pretty much hate any product that requires you to install a 3rd partry TSR (that would include Steam & Origion) in order to play. Particularly egregious are off-line games that require Steam or Origion in order to play. I actively avoid such products whenever possible....and it definately has prevented me from making a few purchases.
I bet 10quid that SWTOR will be distributed with this
I think SWTOR is supposed to be the vehicle that gets the service off the ground. With so many people certain to buy the game, funneling it through Origin is a perfect way to jumpstart it.
After reading the RPS piece just posted, I think it's a lot more harmful than other EULAs that allow for similar activity. Sorry, but there just no way that I'm going to give EA free reign to poke into all aspects of my system, beyond just those few places that have to do with their products. This also allows them to gather information about all of their competitors products as well. By contrast, Steam only allows data collection related to their own stuff.
If EA wants that kind of marketing information from me about the competition, my reponse is: F*** you, pay me.
There's no way in hell I'm going to help out EA -- the last thing I feel towards them is charitable.
Hope you're not attached to that 10 quid ;P
Origin is not needed in any way for SWTOR. It's vbeen posted on their boards and tweeted multiple times (If you want a source, google it - but be careful...cause google will be watching!!!!!)
Our privacy is being invaded every time we go online. Has been that way for years. That's not really a shocker. The shocking thing is we have embraced it and even defend it, simply because we can't live without the product/products
Every time a new internet fad comes out, our privacy is pushed a little further and people gobble it up too addicted to even question it.
Ask yourself why you need all this privacy, unless doing something you're ashamed of?
Anyways, the info EA may or may not take is a smidgen to what's really important.
Everyone, including you, has something they are ashamed of. Don't be a fool because you want to support corporate BS blindly.
bit of a large assumption although.... as long as you have no illegal downloads (music, movies, games) you probably have nothing to worry about, and anyway, its not like they'd hand that information over to 3rd parties like, you know.. F.A.C.T..
While there has been cases of 'shills' paid to sway the opinion of this forum's community, I'd doubt one is defending EA on this thread.
Mainly cause there is nothing to 'sway'.
The user accepted the agreement when the program was installed. Whether the user read the agreement or not is irrelevant.
If I don't read a contract and blindly sign it, that doesn't mean the contract is invalid.
A EULA is not a real contract. Real contracts have neutral parties to verify the signees and cannot be entered by people who are minors (like videogame Eula's attempt to do constantly). A EULA is a bunch of BS because you never are able to verify who really signed it and under what conditions.
Actually, there are precedents in US courts. Both Mythic Entertainment and Autodesk have had their EULA's accepted by courts during proceedings.
A EULA is not a real contract. Real contracts have neutral parties to verify the signees and cannot be entered by people who are minors (like videogame Eula's attempt to do constantly). A EULA is a bunch of BS because you never are able to verify who really signed it and under what conditions.
Actually contracts are way looser than that. A handshake can be an acceptable contract and verbal contracts are fully enforceable (though hard to prove). Only specific types of contracts have to be witnessed to be binding and those usually deal with large transactions like land transfers.
In the US and Canada at least, minors can fully enter into a contract. However, if the contract is not for necessities the contract cannot be enforced if the minor wants to back out. In the case of a MMORPG this means that the minor cannot be really sued for breaching an EULA but the game company can still ban them for it.
A EULA is not a real contract. Real contracts have neutral parties to verify the signees and cannot be entered by people who are minors (like videogame Eula's attempt to do constantly). A EULA is a bunch of BS because you never are able to verify who really signed it and under what conditions.
Where did you get your law degree? Phoenix Online?
The same rules that apply to contracts apply to a EULA. There doesn't need to be a neutral party there, as anyone who has bought a car and signed the loan papers can attest. There is no neutral third party. There is you, the car salesman, and the bank rep. No, the bank rep is not neutral, because you are paying them interest.
Do yourself a favor, and refrain from talking about issues you don't research.
Still, EA Origins suck because if I want to be private on the net I talk with you guys and stay away from FB (I actually do), but it is likely that I in the close future either I can play EA games on Origins or illegally cracked.
I think EA is peeing on their own foot.
Sorry mate but your just talking out of your Ass... Tell me exactly how do you think you can keep your "privacy" when buying online?
So you dont mind sending EA a shitload of information including your actuall address, bankaccount or payment card info, phone, email, and other details but EA knowing what CPU or GPU you have is a no no?
Thats plain retarded, EA doesn't need Origin to get that stuff, most games, and all MMO's collect data and information about their players while playing the game, this is not limited to the resources of the actual game on your system.
Online games collect HW and SW information in order to provide more information to the developers to help them improve the game, and find the marketing sweetspot in term of HW req. and other things. All anti cheating programs such as VAC, Punk Buter, Game Guard, and game specific applications like Warden inspect memory assests of all running applications, system processes, and all network traffic in order to detect and prevent cheating in games.
For all intents and purposes these application should(and by many organizations are) classified as malware, ranging from normal malware to rootkits.
And dont even let me start about DRM...
And you cry about Origin?
Read the EULA of Windows, Gmail, and other services that you use daily, check the EULA of your cellphone and your provider, heck in many countries it is legal for the ISP to sell your information to 3rd parties, or redirect traffic to increase add revenue. Not to mention that even your PCI companies can and are sharing information with eachother, and 3rd parties in order to increase reveneu from payment card related services and purcheses.
Honestly, if you want your life to be "private" unplug your internet, dig a hole and stay in there... otherwise you will have quite a large digital foot print..
Any how about Origin, so if you installed it they get you HW info which they allready do in game. They get you IP address which they allready have, and which is meaningless any where outside of the US(where i live the ISP's are not allowed to log issued IP addresses, which prevents that information from being used even with a court order so really i dont care, plus you can allways use a private VPN provider...). And get your name which they will have if you either bought it online, or registered for an EA account, which is required to play many of their games, online atleast.
Basicaly the Origin EULA states that they will gather all the information they gathering now any how, just instead of having that information comming from 10 different sources and corss checked they can collect it via a single application. Thats a good thing, ofc if you do not use their store, or play their games its "BAD" if your realy paranoid.. but if you do there is no difference, just an improvement since they will not have to collect and store that information via multiple mediums.
Were not living in the Matrix, no one can do any thing with your IP address, Spy Sattlites cannot track you with video(if they get a 72 hours old photo thats good, but in most cases it takes longer to wait for a pass or to relocate a psudo goe synced one), and Apple doesnt really care if you visit the mall your a strip club.
They do use all that information to improve service, your IP address which can be used to idenfity your ISP by, and other information like your address will help them to improve the QoS of online services by spreading servers better, this is very important espcially in the US where the coast to coast internet connection is horrid, honestly i get a better latency to both coasts from 7k KM away than people living on either coast.
Information about your HW and SW will help them to improve the performance of the game, to fix bugs, and in general to improve the experince.
Yes they can use that information for "BAD" things, but honeslty no one cares about your IP address, or HW. Google sells all your search records, uses a tracking cookie to track sites you visited in order to provide adds and other services, and heck even reads keywords in your emails for addsense, but EA is EVIL!!!..
PS if you read the EULA it also states that you should not use their sofware to develop nulcear, biological or chemical weapons, so please dont!
Our privacy is being invaded every time we go online. Has been that way for years. That's not really a shocker. The shocking thing is we have embraced it and even defend it, simply because we can't live without the product/products
Every time a new internet fad comes out, our privacy is pushed a little further and people gobble it up too addicted to even question it.
Ask yourself why you need all this privacy, unless doing something you're ashamed of?
Anyways, the info EA may or may not take is a smidgen to what's really important.
Questioning things isn't a bad thing. Stuff like what information and what hands they end up in. Blind obedience and willfull ignorance however are bad things
Comments
I remember while ago, There is a lawsuit about a person selling the Window XP and Microsoft stop that person due to the EULA. Something in the EULA that prevent other person from reselling the Window XP, the problem is that person never open or install Window XP. So he attempt to sell it on ebay, that where Mircosoft got a wift of it and took it to court. The court desicion is that the EULA is a binding contract once you agree to EULA. So basically that person can't sell it, even he didn't agree to it but he open it, so that basically agreeing to EULA. I am trying to find this information, it was really while ago, I believe somewhere in 2005? it was a hot topic back then. I could got some information wrong, this is what I am trying to remember. I remember the court did said that EULA is binding contract and likely to be enforceable. If anyone can find this one, that will be great.
If I remember correctly, the case was settled out of court and Microsoft pretty much lost. Courts have generaly held that EULA's are a form of contract and therefore potentialy binding (assuming the user is given some opportunity to review the terms of agreement before they agree and are given the opportunity to decline to agree).....but here's the dirty little secret about EULA's...and contracts in general that alot of companies don't want you to know.
Just because something is written in a contract doesn't mean that it is legaly binding or enforceable. Law and satutue trump contracts. For example if there is particular statute that is designed to protect consumers....no contract/EULA on earth can take away your access to that protection. Courts regularly throw out clauses in contracts on such basis.
I was once told by a freind who worked in the field...that about 90 percent of EULA's contain clauses that would never stand up in Court if tested. It's why you often see verbage similar to "If anything in this agreement shall be ruled unenforceable it shall have no bearing on any other portion of this agreement." Most companies seem t o go with a throw as much as you can at the wall and see what sticks approach to EULA's.
As an aside, I pretty much hate any product that requires you to install a 3rd partry TSR (that would include Steam & Origion) in order to play. Particularly egregious are off-line games that require Steam or Origion in order to play. I actively avoid such products whenever possible....and it definately has prevented me from making a few purchases.
Hope you're not attached to that 10 quid ;P
Origin is not needed in any way for SWTOR. It's vbeen posted on their boards and tweeted multiple times (If you want a source, google it - but be careful...cause google will be watching!!!!!)
What doesn't anymore?
bit of a large assumption although.... as long as you have no illegal downloads (music, movies, games) you probably have nothing to worry about, and anyway, its not like they'd hand that information over to 3rd parties like, you know.. F.A.C.T..
Actually, there are precedents in US courts. Both Mythic Entertainment and Autodesk have had their EULA's accepted by courts during proceedings.
Actually contracts are way looser than that. A handshake can be an acceptable contract and verbal contracts are fully enforceable (though hard to prove). Only specific types of contracts have to be witnessed to be binding and those usually deal with large transactions like land transfers.
In the US and Canada at least, minors can fully enter into a contract. However, if the contract is not for necessities the contract cannot be enforced if the minor wants to back out. In the case of a MMORPG this means that the minor cannot be really sued for breaching an EULA but the game company can still ban them for it.
Where did you get your law degree? Phoenix Online?
http://www.teleread.com/copy-right/ninth-circuit-rules-eula-licensing-restrictions-on-digital-content-enforceable/
http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/eula_enforceability/
http://www.pcpitstop.com/spycheck/eula.asp
The same rules that apply to contracts apply to a EULA. There doesn't need to be a neutral party there, as anyone who has bought a car and signed the loan papers can attest. There is no neutral third party. There is you, the car salesman, and the bank rep. No, the bank rep is not neutral, because you are paying them interest.
Do yourself a favor, and refrain from talking about issues you don't research.
Sorry mate but your just talking out of your Ass... Tell me exactly how do you think you can keep your "privacy" when buying online?
So you dont mind sending EA a shitload of information including your actuall address, bankaccount or payment card info, phone, email, and other details but EA knowing what CPU or GPU you have is a no no?
Thats plain retarded, EA doesn't need Origin to get that stuff, most games, and all MMO's collect data and information about their players while playing the game, this is not limited to the resources of the actual game on your system.
Online games collect HW and SW information in order to provide more information to the developers to help them improve the game, and find the marketing sweetspot in term of HW req. and other things. All anti cheating programs such as VAC, Punk Buter, Game Guard, and game specific applications like Warden inspect memory assests of all running applications, system processes, and all network traffic in order to detect and prevent cheating in games.
For all intents and purposes these application should(and by many organizations are) classified as malware, ranging from normal malware to rootkits.
And dont even let me start about DRM...
And you cry about Origin?
Read the EULA of Windows, Gmail, and other services that you use daily, check the EULA of your cellphone and your provider, heck in many countries it is legal for the ISP to sell your information to 3rd parties, or redirect traffic to increase add revenue. Not to mention that even your PCI companies can and are sharing information with eachother, and 3rd parties in order to increase reveneu from payment card related services and purcheses.
Honestly, if you want your life to be "private" unplug your internet, dig a hole and stay in there... otherwise you will have quite a large digital foot print..
Any how about Origin, so if you installed it they get you HW info which they allready do in game. They get you IP address which they allready have, and which is meaningless any where outside of the US(where i live the ISP's are not allowed to log issued IP addresses, which prevents that information from being used even with a court order so really i dont care, plus you can allways use a private VPN provider...). And get your name which they will have if you either bought it online, or registered for an EA account, which is required to play many of their games, online atleast.
Basicaly the Origin EULA states that they will gather all the information they gathering now any how, just instead of having that information comming from 10 different sources and corss checked they can collect it via a single application. Thats a good thing, ofc if you do not use their store, or play their games its "BAD" if your realy paranoid.. but if you do there is no difference, just an improvement since they will not have to collect and store that information via multiple mediums.
Were not living in the Matrix, no one can do any thing with your IP address, Spy Sattlites cannot track you with video(if they get a 72 hours old photo thats good, but in most cases it takes longer to wait for a pass or to relocate a psudo goe synced one), and Apple doesnt really care if you visit the mall your a strip club.
They do use all that information to improve service, your IP address which can be used to idenfity your ISP by, and other information like your address will help them to improve the QoS of online services by spreading servers better, this is very important espcially in the US where the coast to coast internet connection is horrid, honestly i get a better latency to both coasts from 7k KM away than people living on either coast.
Information about your HW and SW will help them to improve the performance of the game, to fix bugs, and in general to improve the experince.
Yes they can use that information for "BAD" things, but honeslty no one cares about your IP address, or HW. Google sells all your search records, uses a tracking cookie to track sites you visited in order to provide adds and other services, and heck even reads keywords in your emails for addsense, but EA is EVIL!!!..
PS if you read the EULA it also states that you should not use their sofware to develop nulcear, biological or chemical weapons, so please dont!
OP, wake up.
It's 2011. Your privacy is a myth. Everything about you is out there already being traded and used.
All you can do is, like the rest of us, get in the flock and hope the sheer weight of numbers protects you from anything too harsh.
Questioning things isn't a bad thing. Stuff like what information and what hands they end up in. Blind obedience and willfull ignorance however are bad things
And that scares the heck out of me some nights. Not tonight, but some nights.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"