The crafted sets make you raid ready. Which is great for a game where rerolling is going to be extremely popular. A casual crafter will always be able to sell raid entry level weapons and armor. Plus the fact that a hardcore crafter will be able to reap the benefits of being in a raiding guild by modding top tier gear. That is a very welcome addition to themepark crafting. There were hints of that in Burning Crusade and it was a breath of fresh air. On top of that, you will be managing employees, running special missions to procure rare materials, recipes, and schematics. All while running your business from your personal ship.
I cannot wait to dive into this crafting system. There will always be something interesting to do and there will always be a demand of some sort. A very robust system. Good enough to easily be its own legit endgame. Im very impressed Bioware put this much time and attention into the crafting game.
Well in an upcoming patch Rift will be offering solo and small group dungeons for one, in which you can acquire some pretty decent gear. Not the best but also not the worst, as far as GW2 goes you can pretty much join in on the events if you are in the area. The game doesn't go from a fun leveling experience to an all out raid or die endgame, GW2 is more persistant. To be honest I was one of the biggest bashers of GW2, but after hearing the ToR announcements GW2 is looking like the better game, even Rift will be better than ToR after 1.5. After the personal story runs out than what? If you want to do endgame story content, guess what? that's in the operations. The whole solo planet thing is just another way of saying repeatable dailies. I was one of the biggest fanbois of ToR and couldn't nothing negative be said about it, without me coming to the defense. But now it looks like the raiders win out again, BW pretty much feed us bullshit back in 2008 when they said they weren't going after the raiding crowd.
Did you not read where i said one whole planet is for solo players? the personal storyline which lets you hit lvl cap, crafting, exploration, titles and achievements you are telling me all this is not enough solo content? what else were you expecting from MMORPG? Rift is encouraging more solo play? good for them but i don't think it is a very good idea considering Rift is already quite a solo friendly game. The only places you need to group in Rift is in dungeons, PVP and DE's however even some of the DE's can be soloed as they scale to your levels if alone.
And GW2 is more team dependent than you can imagine. The only difference is that they took out gear stats otherwise GW2 is a very social and group oriented game. MMORPG needs less solo and more group content, otherwise they are no different than single player RPGS.
What i find funny is that you are complaining that SWTOR is not solo friendly enough and comparing it to GW2 which is going to be very group oriented.
From the videos I have seen of GW2, you can start the events on your own and they scale to the number of people that join. MMOs should not cater to just 1 playstyle, me, my wife, and daughter play MMOs together, but you are saying that our style of play shouldn't be encouraged. If that is the case, than I shouldn't have to relie on a bunch of strangers that I don't even know, to get anything done.
Once again you are not reading so i will make a list for stuff you can solo...
1.) Personal storyline
2;) World quests
3.) Crafting
4.) Exploration
5.) Titles and achievements
on top of that one whole planet dedicated to solo players. So what you are left with to group for? dungeons, PVP, heroic quests and some bonus quests.
Are you still going to tell me with a straight face your style of play is not encouraged? or you were hoping for soloing dungeons too? can you give me an example of soloable dungeons in GW2 at end game? even the best experince in DE comes from large scale groups.
That is more than enough encouragement for his play style.
OP you are msot welcome to play GW2 and see it for yourself. if you enter with 'i want to solo everything' mentality in GW2 you will be very very disappointed since it is a very group oriented game.
Originally posted by cloud8521 Buys MMO, pays sub, plays like single player game. you cant explain that...... seriously you cant, it is not a meme
That's because soloing through an MMO has nothing to do with a "single player" experience. Players shouldn't have to track down a group of random players and force them to cooperate through a bunch of boring raids just to have a chance at being competitive in the only content (FFA PvP) that actually has a tangible sense of reward to it. Performance and hard work on an individual scale should allow players to access better gear, not dumb luck or willingness to negotiate with an incompetent guild bureaucracy.
Buys MMO, pays sub, plays like single player game. you cant explain that...... seriously you cant, it is not a meme
That's because soloing through an MMO has nothing to do with a "single player" experience. Players shouldn't have to track down a group of random players and force them to cooperate through a bunch of boring raids just to have a chance at being competitive in the only content (FFA PvP) that actually has a tangible sense of reward to it. Performance and hard work on an individual scale should allow players to access better gear, not dumb luck or willingness to negotiate with an incompetent guild bureaucracy.
admittedly enough I was hoping for a little bit more than the norm. I was hoping they would stay with the idea of some of the best gear would come from raids, some of the best gear from PVP, and some others from crafting. Not all the best of every type of gear from raids. Now it seems it is more of just, I got the best gear I win game where skill counts for little to nothing. Yes I am still going to play and hope that it isnt as bad as I fear. I just probably wont play too long.
admittedly enough I was hoping for a little bit more than the norm. I was hoping they would stay with the idea of some of the best gear would come from raids, some of the best gear from PVP, and some others from crafting. Not all the best of every type of gear from raids. Now it seems it is more of just, I got the best gear I win game where skill counts for little to nothing. Yes I am still going to play and hope that it isnt as bad as I fear. I just probably wont play too long.
It has already been said that the best PvP gear will come from PvP and the best PvE gear will be from Raid while the crafting will be Raid ready so one step under raid.
Considering the difference between the gear will only be 10%, it can easily be countered by how you play your class and with how you use teamwork.
I think party loot should be the best stuff you can get normaly, but......
I do believe crafters should have the potential of making the best gear in game period (after a lot of hard work that is without necessarily having to get mats form group activities).
admittedly enough I was hoping for a little bit more than the norm. I was hoping they would stay with the idea of some of the best gear would come from raids, some of the best gear from PVP, and some others from crafting. Not all the best of every type of gear from raids. Now it seems it is more of just, I got the best gear I win game where skill counts for little to nothing. Yes I am still going to play and hope that it isnt as bad as I fear. I just probably wont play too long.
It has already been said that the best PvP gear will come from PvP and the best PvE gear will be from Raid while the crafting will be Raid ready so one step under raid.
Considering the difference between the gear will only be 10%, it can easily be countered by how you play your class and with how you use teamwork.
I suggest you try reading the thread some more
The Devs Q&A stated that the best gear would come from Operations. The PVE gear would be rouhly 10% better than PVP gear though PVP gear would be more specific. You could mod your PVP gear with Items from crafters that have to raid to get the mats for the gear to make up that 10%. So the best gear comes from raiding and no where else. You may need to read a little more as well
Well, if you could solo and get the same gear as people who do raids, then it would seem unfair.
It's not really a new thing to have some of the best gear only accessable via group content. I don't see a way they could do it to where solo players get good gear without it feeling like group and raiders are getting the shaft.
I completely disagree. It shouldn't be whether it is solo or pvp or raid, it should represent effort put in. I don't think solo players should get the same gear as QUICKLY as those that raid, but they should be able to, through crafting, questing and adventuring, eventually see those rewards. Think of a raid as the collective efforts of a group of people. Instead of taking 1 person 6 months to get the item they seek, it would take 12 people 2 weeks. This is only to represent the currency of effort. If they would consider this, I think it would be the fairest solution. I have never agreed with raiding, except for special events. In any RPG that I've played prior to EQ, great things were done with a 6 person group and sometimes less. What exactly is so "epic" about 40 people beating on the one thing at the same time? But alas, that is the lay of the land and therefore it will exist. But I agree with the OP, single and small group players should have options available to them.
admittedly enough I was hoping for a little bit more than the norm. I was hoping they would stay with the idea of some of the best gear would come from raids, some of the best gear from PVP, and some others from crafting. Not all the best of every type of gear from raids. Now it seems it is more of just, I got the best gear I win game where skill counts for little to nothing. Yes I am still going to play and hope that it isnt as bad as I fear. I just probably wont play too long.
It has already been said that the best PvP gear will come from PvP and the best PvE gear will be from Raid while the crafting will be Raid ready so one step under raid.
Considering the difference between the gear will only be 10%, it can easily be countered by how you play your class and with how you use teamwork.
I suggest you try reading the thread some more
You may need to read a little more as well
It seems i do.
I could have sworn i read it differently
EDIT: After reading it again, they never actually say that the PvE gear will be better than the PvP Gear in PvP, just that it will be more specialized with probaly means that it will be better in PvP only.
SWTOR is, imo. A single player story driven rpg with mmo elements. The developers are doing what they do best, and adding the tried and true mmo fundamentals. So the majority of content while leveling will be solo based, then end game content like every other current mmo will be group/raid based. That is how progression simply works, you can participate or not. Swtor is not trying to be revolutionary, they’re simply trying to make a great story. If you don’t enjoy the current progression mechanics used in mmos today then unless the story alone will grip you enough to keep subbing, perhaps you should look elsewhere for your mmo fix.
It’s entierly unfair to compare something like Sw to GW2, they may aim for the exact same thing. A story driven game, but their methods are worlds apart. Sw is, a single player with a little bit of mmo thrown in, GW2 is an story driven mmo enriched with innovation. Anet has years of experience now with innovation application and mmo development. Bioware does not, it has years of experience with single player rpg’s. Each development team is working towards it’s strenths. If you’re able to play Sw;Tor over and over again then yes, you’re going to love their mmo. If not, and in an mmo you look for something more, then perhaps it isn’t the game for you. Either way you have ample time to play Sw until the next wave of games release Q2 2012. If you're not 100% you can play for a few months and then move onto something different
Again though, unfair comparison. Compare SW to Rift, Warhammer, Wow. Not GW2.
Innovation like no end game content? sorry to dissapoint, but ArenaNET doesnt have years of experience because GW1 was never an MMO to begin with....
GW1 was a PVP Arena game(MOBA if you want to call it that), with no persistant world a shared few quest hubs, and an a defacto offline all instanced content that you would complete either alone or with a group, and even then the group content could be soloed by the use of henchmen.
GW1 had decent PVP and thats all, and even then it was basically an interactive card based RPG, considering that ArenaNET are getting inline with the rest of the theme park MMO's by implemeting a more level and class locked system this time and most likely will go the talent point and class skills path that most MMO and RPG have been taking these past years.
And saying GW2 has innovative "Story Driven" features is just either not givving GW1 enough credit since the entire leveling plot was a single chain of instanced story parts with cutsences and all, or just being a rotten fanboy and givving GW2 way way too much credit. Honestly the amount of details known about GW2 is too slim, and half of that atleast will still change during its development, i do not see it launching before holiday 2012 if not later than that... So far i have not seen any thing innovative from GW2, not that SW:TOR is so innovative, and neither was wow, this industry like any other has nothing to do with innovation, becasue no one wants it, its build on the simple concept of taking what you have improving on it, and bring it as close as you can to perfection. No game that tried to be an industry breaker and innovater succeeded, and much more experience teams and companies than ArenaNET have tried, Vangard faild, AoC failed, and the list goes on.
And about the whole "each company plays to their strenghts" part, yet again somthing that might sound smart, but uttery lacks any wisdom... Blizzard never developed an MMO prior to WoW, heck they never even worked on an RPG prior to WoW unless you count the never released Warcraft Legends, and yeah they failed badly i guess. If one thing that BioWare knows how to do is to give quality to its Titles, and yes there were some less than stellar titles, or a title from BioWare IE DA2, but even that one improved allot on top of its predeccessor, even if it was in the technical aspects and game mechanics alone while the story and setting had to take a back seat due to development window restraints, and the fact that BioWare which was allwasys a single project studio had to work on atleast 3 titles at the same time.
PS
BTW i would consider the first NWN to me more of an MMO and GW1, and many other so called MMO's out there, it had(and still has) persistant servers, dungeon master mode, and a vibrant modding community that created a vast amount of content, and BioWare has enabled that and supported that trough the years, infact many of the persistant world creators are now working for BioWare.
They have said the there will only be a 10 pct diffrence from pve and pvp gear. So people can do stuff in pvp gear if they want thats pve or pvp in pve gear.
U know i hate forced grouping i dont wanna hit a quest and not be able to complete it cause i cant find a group at 2 am my time.
That said no way should a person who plays an mmo completly solo deserver to have the best gear in game.
Im sorry its an mmo stop being anti social and actually i dont socialize. If u dont wanna ever play with others why play an mmo at all.
It makes no sense stick to single player rpgs like mass effedt and dragon age and such so u never have to play with anyone if u dont wanna.
But if u want to get the best gear u should have to at least group for something.
Originally posted by theratmonkey Well, if you could solo and get the same gear as people who do raids, then it would seem unfair. It's not really a new thing to have some of the best gear only accessable via group content. I don't see a way they could do it to where solo players get good gear without it feeling like group and raiders are getting the shaft.
No, this isn't new, but it makes absolutely no sense to me.
Of course, vertical gear progression doesn't make much sense to me either.
Why not give solo players decent gear, other than the fact that it allows raiders to feel better than people who do not raid?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Just wondering if Han Solo's first "Operation" going into the deathstar yeilded a belt with +3 to evasion? I'm just being sarcastic sorry...well naw not really sorry : but I am curious as to whether people will start refering to operations and flashpoints as raids and dungeons / heroics in-game.
It is a good point though, I'm not sure why small groups and individuals can't have similar stat "gear" to the larger grouped raiders. If anyone here has played WoW you can testify that a 10% difference in stats which is usually about 2 tiers? is significant especially when it comes to weapon item levels.
I agree with the OP and everyone else that did too. There needs to be more options for the solo/small group player to obtain better gear than just the basic lvl 50 quest/dungeon sets.
The #1 argument that the raiders always bring up, "why do you need raid level gear if you don't raid?" ~ honestly why not, and why do the raiders care so much that we non-raiders have access to it. Does it make you special because you have more time and patience...no no it doesn't! If its in the game, then why can't every type of player earn it in one way or another, without being forced into a type of gameplay they dislike.
Why not do something like Rift is attempting and making the high end raids solo/small group possible, with weekly lockouts and similar low drop percentages. And each week you have the option to do said instance once while in a full raid or once while solo, maybe twice. Or add some kind of stipulation to the gear, like PvP arena gear in WoW requires you earn a certain rating to buy/use it.
Last I heard, isn't the end-game progression only consistent of like 20% of the total population playing of any given MMO, possibly less. Also why is every MMO post-2004 entirely designed to be solo and small group based, but as soon as you reach end-game you're suddenly forced to raid in large groups to progress!? And why is it always gear based, why can't it be horizontal stat-based leveling instead. {like FFXI and their Merit System...} It doesn't make sense to just drop the solo/small group gameplay upon reaching the cap if you want the best stuff, especially when the entire MMO is designed around the solo/small group player!
EDIT: Granted though, I do actually plan to get into operations more than I normally would because of the personal loot containers. Really my biggest beef with raiding is the DKP BS, the arguing over who gets what, ninjas, and overall the stress leading up to the boss that may or may not drop the piece of gear you want, and will you win the roll! All that should be gone in SW:TOR, but I will still continue to advocate for this gear to become obtainable by other means because I don't always like to raid!
I agree with the OP and everyone else that did too. There needs to be more options for the solo/small group player to obtain better gear than just the basic lvl 50 quest/dungeon sets.
The #1 argument that the raiders always bring up, "why do you need raid level gear if you don't raid?" ~ honestly why not, and why do the raiders care so much that we non-raiders have access to it. Does it make you special because you have more time and patience...no no it doesn't! If its in the game, then why can't every type of player earn it in one way or another, without being forced into a type of gameplay they dislike.
Why not do something like Rift is attempting and making the high end raids solo/small group possible, with weekly lockouts and similar low drop percentages. And each week you have the option to do said instance once while in a full raid or once while solo, maybe twice. Or add some kind of stipulation to the gear, like PvP arena gear in WoW requires you earn a certain rating to buy/use it.
Last I heard, isn't the end-game progression only consistent of like 20% of the total population playing of any given MMO, possibly less. Also why is every MMO post-2004 entirely designed to be solo and small group based, but as soon as you reach end-game you're suddenly forced to raid in large groups to progress!? And why is it always gear based, why can't it be horizontal stat-based leveling instead. {like FFXI and their Merit System...} It doesn't make sense to just drop the solo/small group gameplay upon reaching the cap if you want the best stuff, especially when the entire MMO is designed around the solo/small group player!
EDIT: Granted though, I do actually plan to get into operations more than I normally would because of the personal loot containers. Really my biggest beef with raiding is the DKP BS, the arguing over who gets what, ninjas, and overall the stress leading up to the boss that may or may not drop the piece of gear you want, and will you win the roll! All that should be gone in SW:TOR, but I will still continue to advocate for this gear to become obtainable by other means because I don't always like to raid!
There are a lot of raiders who use their gear to measure their accomplishments in life. Seriously. There are some that treat MMO's as a game, but there are others that these games become who they are and how they are defined.
Personally, there should always be more than one way to achieve an objective. I mean, why does it always have to be Gaggle 1 takes on uberMob1 or Gaggle 1 takes on Gaggle 2. I would find it refreshing if someone in some company somewhere make some game that they were working on able to provide multiple paths to get to a single goal.
As far as raiding goes, I can stand it a little bit, but it's B-O-R-I-N-G-! And it's tedious and blah blah blah. I personally have no problem questing for months at a time to get that one sweet item. I also have no problem mixing the different play styles to achieve said item (solo play here, group play there, with a touch of raiding) . I still remember getting my Singing Short Sword in EQ. Took me NINE MONTHS of hard work, but I loved that sword more than any raid drop I recieved after it. I soloed some of it, grouped some of it and did a couple of raids. Nothing too stressful and it allowed me to experience what the game had to offer. I didn't have to raid the same damn mob night in, night out to get a chance at a piece of loot. It was very spontanious, exciting and FUN! I would pay double the game cost to get that feeling back.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
If The Old Republic is going the way of World of Warcraft as you stated, than I don't see why raiding would be an issue. Rather than going through a dungeon by yourself and killing monsters, you simply hit a button to be grouped up with random strangers, teleport to the dungeon, and fight alongside them while nobody talks or makes eye contact. It's like riding an elevator.
I'm always amused by the people who freak out that an online game would have aspects that force you to interact with other people, even if it is as minimal as raiding. I'm not sure why you're so worried about getting the highest level armor anyway, because once you hit a point where your weapon/armor can thoroughly trash end-game mobs, which can usually be hit with equipment that can be dropped/crafted/purchased on the auction house, the only point in getting the end game raid gear is to make end game raids easier, which requires a group.
Perhaps it's just because I come from an age where grouping wasn't just necessary for end-game, it was necessary to get past the first zone.
if equal level gear was available, raids would too easy because you would already be geared for them, and there would be no reward because ... you already have the gear.
there are plenty of games for you. MMOs are not them.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
If The Old Republic is going the way of World of Warcraft as you stated, than I don't see why raiding would be an issue. Rather than going through a dungeon by yourself and killing monsters, you simply hit a button to be grouped up with random strangers, teleport to the dungeon, and fight alongside them while nobody talks or makes eye contact. It's like riding an elevator.
I think this is the saddest thing i ever experienced in an MMO. I hope this never happens to SWTOR.
It's always baffled me that players can complain about WoW (the most solo-friendly MMO in history) has ever "shafted" solo players.
Everything that follows from that premise makes even less sense.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Metentso Originally posted by Omali If The Old Republic is going the way of World of Warcraft as you stated, than I don't see why raiding would be an issue. Rather than going through a dungeon by yourself and killing monsters, you simply hit a button to be grouped up with random strangers, teleport to the dungeon, and fight alongside them while nobody talks or makes eye contact. It's like riding an elevator.
I think this is the saddest thing i ever experienced in an MMO. I hope this never happens to SWTOR.
while i agree with you I can almost assure you that Bioware .. or at least EA doesn't. Instant gratification is what sells these days.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Perhaps it's just because I come from an age where grouping wasn't just necessary for end-game, it was necessary to get past the first zone.
I come from that age too but even all those older MMOs I loved, especially FFXI, have changed and become more solo-based. And thats unfortunately the way the gaming industry has headed,{post-2004} and while I adamantly disliked it at first, I've learned to adapted to these changes so I could continue to enjoy playing MMOs.
All-the-while though, even though I loved to group heavily in the past, I still preferred the small group method then ~6-man or less~ in both open world mob camping and dungeons. Its just that with how MMOs are entirely solo based for-the-most-part these days, the end-game shouldn't be entirely group based as the only means to progress...
I agree with the OP and everyone else that did too. There needs to be more options for the solo/small group player to obtain better gear than just the basic lvl 50 quest/dungeon sets.
The #1 argument that the raiders always bring up, "why do you need raid level gear if you don't raid?" ~ honestly why not, and why do the raiders care so much that we non-raiders have access to it. Does it make you special because you have more time and patience...no no it doesn't! If its in the game, then why can't every type of player earn it in one way or another, without being forced into a type of gameplay they dislike.
Why not do something like Rift is attempting and making the high end raids solo/small group possible, with weekly lockouts and similar low drop percentages. And each week you have the option to do said instance once while in a full raid or once while solo, maybe twice. Or add some kind of stipulation to the gear, like PvP arena gear in WoW requires you earn a certain rating to buy/use it.
Last I heard, isn't the end-game progression only consistent of like 20% of the total population playing of any given MMO, possibly less. Also why is every MMO post-2004 entirely designed to be solo and small group based, but as soon as you reach end-game you're suddenly forced to raid in large groups to progress!? And why is it always gear based, why can't it be horizontal stat-based leveling instead. {like FFXI and their Merit System...} It doesn't make sense to just drop the solo/small group gameplay upon reaching the cap if you want the best stuff, especially when the entire MMO is designed around the solo/small group player!
EDIT: Granted though, I do actually plan to get into operations more than I normally would because of the personal loot containers. Really my biggest beef with raiding is the DKP BS, the arguing over who gets what, ninjas, and overall the stress leading up to the boss that may or may not drop the piece of gear you want, and will you win the roll! All that should be gone in SW:TOR, but I will still continue to advocate for this gear to become obtainable by other means because I don't always like to raid!
There are a lot of raiders who use their gear to measure their accomplishments in life. Seriously. There are some that treat MMO's as a game, but there are others that these games become who they are and how they are defined.
Personally, there should always be more than one way to achieve an objective. I mean, why does it always have to be Gaggle 1 takes on uberMob1 or Gaggle 1 takes on Gaggle 2. I would find it refreshing if someone in some company somewhere make some game that they were working on able to provide multiple paths to get to a single goal.
As far as raiding goes, I can stand it a little bit, but it's B-O-R-I-N-G-! And it's tedious and blah blah blah. I personally have no problem questing for months at a time to get that one sweet item. I also have no problem mixing the different play styles to achieve said item (solo play here, group play there, with a touch of raiding) . I still remember getting my Singing Short Sword in EQ. Took me NINE MONTHS of hard work, but I loved that sword more than any raid drop I recieved after it. I soloed some of it, grouped some of it and did a couple of raids. Nothing too stressful and it allowed me to experience what the game had to offer. I didn't have to raid the same damn mob night in, night out to get a chance at a piece of loot. It was very spontanious, exciting and FUN! I would pay double the game cost to get that feeling back.
That was an epic weapon in EQ no? I remember camping In Lguk for that guy (raster maybe) for the monk epic. Took me 2 tries for a total of 8 hours. I remember people saying this mob to spawn could take months. Those days are gone my friend. I love original EQ (started just after kunark came out) but that game was brutal by todays standards.
What I'm curious about is what the difference is, camping (killing) something for 9 months, or killing the same raid mobs for......2,3,4,5 up to 9 months is, exactly? If it's simply a time constraint I understand but you just admitted to doing the same thing as a raid would for 9 months. Obviously it's not a boredom thing in EQ?
Honestly I think with the reduced raid sizes/group sizes this game is going to be a lot of fun (imo).
admittedly enough I was hoping for a little bit more than the norm. I was hoping they would stay with the idea of some of the best gear would come from raids, some of the best gear from PVP, and some others from crafting. Not all the best of every type of gear from raids. Now it seems it is more of just, I got the best gear I win game where skill counts for little to nothing. Yes I am still going to play and hope that it isnt as bad as I fear. I just probably wont play too long.
It has already been said that the best PvP gear will come from PvP and the best PvE gear will be from Raid while the crafting will be Raid ready so one step under raid.
Considering the difference between the gear will only be 10%, it can easily be countered by how you play your class and with how you use teamwork.
I suggest you try reading the thread some more
You may need to read a little more as well
It seems i do.
I could have sworn i read it differently
EDIT: After reading it again, they never actually say that the PvE gear will be better than the PvP Gear in PvP, just that it will be more specialized with probaly means that it will be better in PvP only.
You are correct on that, I hope you are right and pvp gear is the best for pvp. So top tier PVP gear is better than top tier PVE gear for PVP purpose.
I agree with the OP and everyone else that did too. There needs to be more options for the solo/small group player to obtain better gear than just the basic lvl 50 quest/dungeon sets.
The #1 argument that the raiders always bring up, "why do you need raid level gear if you don't raid?" ~ honestly why not, and why do the raiders care so much that we non-raiders have access to it. Does it make you special because you have more time and patience...no no it doesn't! If its in the game, then why can't every type of player earn it in one way or another, without being forced into a type of gameplay they dislike.
Why not do something like Rift is attempting and making the high end raids solo/small group possible, with weekly lockouts and similar low drop percentages. And each week you have the option to do said instance once while in a full raid or once while solo, maybe twice. Or add some kind of stipulation to the gear, like PvP arena gear in WoW requires you earn a certain rating to buy/use it.
Last I heard, isn't the end-game progression only consistent of like 20% of the total population playing of any given MMO, possibly less. Also why is every MMO post-2004 entirely designed to be solo and small group based, but as soon as you reach end-game you're suddenly forced to raid in large groups to progress!? And why is it always gear based, why can't it be horizontal stat-based leveling instead. {like FFXI and their Merit System...} It doesn't make sense to just drop the solo/small group gameplay upon reaching the cap if you want the best stuff, especially when the entire MMO is designed around the solo/small group player!
EDIT: Granted though, I do actually plan to get into operations more than I normally would because of the personal loot containers. Really my biggest beef with raiding is the DKP BS, the arguing over who gets what, ninjas, and overall the stress leading up to the boss that may or may not drop the piece of gear you want, and will you win the roll! All that should be gone in SW:TOR, but I will still continue to advocate for this gear to become obtainable by other means because I don't always like to raid!
SO what they have actually said is that the best gear comes from Flashpoints which are the smaller group quests. Heck, you can grab one friend and load up two companions and go. It will be harder to do Flashpoints with companion characters but doable. And for the record, I have checked on this. Companions can be taken on Flashpoints but NOT on Operations or Warzones.
They have also said the Raid gear is at best 10% better than other gear and you can craft that gear as well.
Comments
This game is an all around win for crafters.
The crafted sets make you raid ready. Which is great for a game where rerolling is going to be extremely popular. A casual crafter will always be able to sell raid entry level weapons and armor. Plus the fact that a hardcore crafter will be able to reap the benefits of being in a raiding guild by modding top tier gear. That is a very welcome addition to themepark crafting. There were hints of that in Burning Crusade and it was a breath of fresh air. On top of that, you will be managing employees, running special missions to procure rare materials, recipes, and schematics. All while running your business from your personal ship.
I cannot wait to dive into this crafting system. There will always be something interesting to do and there will always be a demand of some sort. A very robust system. Good enough to easily be its own legit endgame. Im very impressed Bioware put this much time and attention into the crafting game.
That is more than enough encouragement for his play style.
OP you are msot welcome to play GW2 and see it for yourself. if you enter with 'i want to solo everything' mentality in GW2 you will be very very disappointed since it is a very group oriented game.
Bite Me
That's because soloing through an MMO has nothing to do with a "single player" experience. Players shouldn't have to track down a group of random players and force them to cooperate through a bunch of boring raids just to have a chance at being competitive in the only content (FFA PvP) that actually has a tangible sense of reward to it. Performance and hard work on an individual scale should allow players to access better gear, not dumb luck or willingness to negotiate with an incompetent guild bureaucracy.
solo= single
playing solo = single playing
soloplayer= singleplayer
therefore everything you said is bad
admittedly enough I was hoping for a little bit more than the norm. I was hoping they would stay with the idea of some of the best gear would come from raids, some of the best gear from PVP, and some others from crafting. Not all the best of every type of gear from raids. Now it seems it is more of just, I got the best gear I win game where skill counts for little to nothing. Yes I am still going to play and hope that it isnt as bad as I fear. I just probably wont play too long.
It has already been said that the best PvP gear will come from PvP and the best PvE gear will be from Raid while the crafting will be Raid ready so one step under raid.
Considering the difference between the gear will only be 10%, it can easily be countered by how you play your class and with how you use teamwork.
I suggest you try reading the thread some more
I think party loot should be the best stuff you can get normaly, but......
I do believe crafters should have the potential of making the best gear in game period (after a lot of hard work that is without necessarily having to get mats form group activities).
The Devs Q&A stated that the best gear would come from Operations. The PVE gear would be rouhly 10% better than PVP gear though PVP gear would be more specific. You could mod your PVP gear with Items from crafters that have to raid to get the mats for the gear to make up that 10%. So the best gear comes from raiding and no where else. You may need to read a little more as well
I completely disagree. It shouldn't be whether it is solo or pvp or raid, it should represent effort put in. I don't think solo players should get the same gear as QUICKLY as those that raid, but they should be able to, through crafting, questing and adventuring, eventually see those rewards. Think of a raid as the collective efforts of a group of people. Instead of taking 1 person 6 months to get the item they seek, it would take 12 people 2 weeks. This is only to represent the currency of effort. If they would consider this, I think it would be the fairest solution. I have never agreed with raiding, except for special events. In any RPG that I've played prior to EQ, great things were done with a 6 person group and sometimes less. What exactly is so "epic" about 40 people beating on the one thing at the same time? But alas, that is the lay of the land and therefore it will exist. But I agree with the OP, single and small group players should have options available to them.
It seems i do.
I could have sworn i read it differently
EDIT: After reading it again, they never actually say that the PvE gear will be better than the PvP Gear in PvP, just that it will be more specialized with probaly means that it will be better in PvP only.
Innovation like no end game content? sorry to dissapoint, but ArenaNET doesnt have years of experience because GW1 was never an MMO to begin with....
GW1 was a PVP Arena game(MOBA if you want to call it that), with no persistant world a shared few quest hubs, and an a defacto offline all instanced content that you would complete either alone or with a group, and even then the group content could be soloed by the use of henchmen.
GW1 had decent PVP and thats all, and even then it was basically an interactive card based RPG, considering that ArenaNET are getting inline with the rest of the theme park MMO's by implemeting a more level and class locked system this time and most likely will go the talent point and class skills path that most MMO and RPG have been taking these past years.
And saying GW2 has innovative "Story Driven" features is just either not givving GW1 enough credit since the entire leveling plot was a single chain of instanced story parts with cutsences and all, or just being a rotten fanboy and givving GW2 way way too much credit. Honestly the amount of details known about GW2 is too slim, and half of that atleast will still change during its development, i do not see it launching before holiday 2012 if not later than that... So far i have not seen any thing innovative from GW2, not that SW:TOR is so innovative, and neither was wow, this industry like any other has nothing to do with innovation, becasue no one wants it, its build on the simple concept of taking what you have improving on it, and bring it as close as you can to perfection. No game that tried to be an industry breaker and innovater succeeded, and much more experience teams and companies than ArenaNET have tried, Vangard faild, AoC failed, and the list goes on.
And about the whole "each company plays to their strenghts" part, yet again somthing that might sound smart, but uttery lacks any wisdom... Blizzard never developed an MMO prior to WoW, heck they never even worked on an RPG prior to WoW unless you count the never released Warcraft Legends, and yeah they failed badly i guess. If one thing that BioWare knows how to do is to give quality to its Titles, and yes there were some less than stellar titles, or a title from BioWare IE DA2, but even that one improved allot on top of its predeccessor, even if it was in the technical aspects and game mechanics alone while the story and setting had to take a back seat due to development window restraints, and the fact that BioWare which was allwasys a single project studio had to work on atleast 3 titles at the same time.
PS
BTW i would consider the first NWN to me more of an MMO and GW1, and many other so called MMO's out there, it had(and still has) persistant servers, dungeon master mode, and a vibrant modding community that created a vast amount of content, and BioWare has enabled that and supported that trough the years, infact many of the persistant world creators are now working for BioWare.
They have said the there will only be a 10 pct diffrence from pve and pvp gear. So people can do stuff in pvp gear if they want thats pve or pvp in pve gear.
U know i hate forced grouping i dont wanna hit a quest and not be able to complete it cause i cant find a group at 2 am my time.
That said no way should a person who plays an mmo completly solo deserver to have the best gear in game.
Im sorry its an mmo stop being anti social and actually i dont socialize. If u dont wanna ever play with others why play an mmo at all.
It makes no sense stick to single player rpgs like mass effedt and dragon age and such so u never have to play with anyone if u dont wanna.
But if u want to get the best gear u should have to at least group for something.
No, this isn't new, but it makes absolutely no sense to me.
Of course, vertical gear progression doesn't make much sense to me either.
Why not give solo players decent gear, other than the fact that it allows raiders to feel better than people who do not raid?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Just wondering if Han Solo's first "Operation" going into the deathstar yeilded a belt with +3 to evasion? I'm just being sarcastic sorry...well naw not really sorry : but I am curious as to whether people will start refering to operations and flashpoints as raids and dungeons / heroics in-game.
It is a good point though, I'm not sure why small groups and individuals can't have similar stat "gear" to the larger grouped raiders. If anyone here has played WoW you can testify that a 10% difference in stats which is usually about 2 tiers? is significant especially when it comes to weapon item levels.
"LOL"
I agree with the OP and everyone else that did too. There needs to be more options for the solo/small group player to obtain better gear than just the basic lvl 50 quest/dungeon sets.
The #1 argument that the raiders always bring up, "why do you need raid level gear if you don't raid?" ~ honestly why not, and why do the raiders care so much that we non-raiders have access to it. Does it make you special because you have more time and patience...no no it doesn't! If its in the game, then why can't every type of player earn it in one way or another, without being forced into a type of gameplay they dislike.
Why not do something like Rift is attempting and making the high end raids solo/small group possible, with weekly lockouts and similar low drop percentages. And each week you have the option to do said instance once while in a full raid or once while solo, maybe twice. Or add some kind of stipulation to the gear, like PvP arena gear in WoW requires you earn a certain rating to buy/use it.
Last I heard, isn't the end-game progression only consistent of like 20% of the total population playing of any given MMO, possibly less. Also why is every MMO post-2004 entirely designed to be solo and small group based, but as soon as you reach end-game you're suddenly forced to raid in large groups to progress!? And why is it always gear based, why can't it be horizontal stat-based leveling instead. {like FFXI and their Merit System...} It doesn't make sense to just drop the solo/small group gameplay upon reaching the cap if you want the best stuff, especially when the entire MMO is designed around the solo/small group player!
EDIT: Granted though, I do actually plan to get into operations more than I normally would because of the personal loot containers. Really my biggest beef with raiding is the DKP BS, the arguing over who gets what, ninjas, and overall the stress leading up to the boss that may or may not drop the piece of gear you want, and will you win the roll! All that should be gone in SW:TOR, but I will still continue to advocate for this gear to become obtainable by other means because I don't always like to raid!
There are a lot of raiders who use their gear to measure their accomplishments in life. Seriously. There are some that treat MMO's as a game, but there are others that these games become who they are and how they are defined.
Personally, there should always be more than one way to achieve an objective. I mean, why does it always have to be Gaggle 1 takes on uberMob1 or Gaggle 1 takes on Gaggle 2. I would find it refreshing if someone in some company somewhere make some game that they were working on able to provide multiple paths to get to a single goal.
As far as raiding goes, I can stand it a little bit, but it's B-O-R-I-N-G-! And it's tedious and blah blah blah. I personally have no problem questing for months at a time to get that one sweet item. I also have no problem mixing the different play styles to achieve said item (solo play here, group play there, with a touch of raiding) . I still remember getting my Singing Short Sword in EQ. Took me NINE MONTHS of hard work, but I loved that sword more than any raid drop I recieved after it. I soloed some of it, grouped some of it and did a couple of raids. Nothing too stressful and it allowed me to experience what the game had to offer. I didn't have to raid the same damn mob night in, night out to get a chance at a piece of loot. It was very spontanious, exciting and FUN! I would pay double the game cost to get that feeling back.
If The Old Republic is going the way of World of Warcraft as you stated, than I don't see why raiding would be an issue. Rather than going through a dungeon by yourself and killing monsters, you simply hit a button to be grouped up with random strangers, teleport to the dungeon, and fight alongside them while nobody talks or makes eye contact. It's like riding an elevator.
I'm always amused by the people who freak out that an online game would have aspects that force you to interact with other people, even if it is as minimal as raiding. I'm not sure why you're so worried about getting the highest level armor anyway, because once you hit a point where your weapon/armor can thoroughly trash end-game mobs, which can usually be hit with equipment that can be dropped/crafted/purchased on the auction house, the only point in getting the end game raid gear is to make end game raids easier, which requires a group.
Perhaps it's just because I come from an age where grouping wasn't just necessary for end-game, it was necessary to get past the first zone.
Oh geeze .. spare us the psycho babble .. ffs
if equal level gear was available, raids would too easy because you would already be geared for them, and there would be no reward because ... you already have the gear.
there are plenty of games for you. MMOs are not them.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I think this is the saddest thing i ever experienced in an MMO. I hope this never happens to SWTOR.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
It's always baffled me that players can complain about WoW (the most solo-friendly MMO in history) has ever "shafted" solo players.
Everything that follows from that premise makes even less sense.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think this is the saddest thing i ever experienced in an MMO. I hope this never happens to SWTOR.
while i agree with you I can almost assure you that Bioware .. or at least EA doesn't. Instant gratification is what sells these days.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I come from that age too but even all those older MMOs I loved, especially FFXI, have changed and become more solo-based. And thats unfortunately the way the gaming industry has headed,{post-2004} and while I adamantly disliked it at first, I've learned to adapted to these changes so I could continue to enjoy playing MMOs.
All-the-while though, even though I loved to group heavily in the past, I still preferred the small group method then ~6-man or less~ in both open world mob camping and dungeons. Its just that with how MMOs are entirely solo based for-the-most-part these days, the end-game shouldn't be entirely group based as the only means to progress...
You are correct on that, I hope you are right and pvp gear is the best for pvp. So top tier PVP gear is better than top tier PVE gear for PVP purpose.
SO what they have actually said is that the best gear comes from Flashpoints which are the smaller group quests. Heck, you can grab one friend and load up two companions and go. It will be harder to do Flashpoints with companion characters but doable. And for the record, I have checked on this. Companions can be taken on Flashpoints but NOT on Operations or Warzones.
They have also said the Raid gear is at best 10% better than other gear and you can craft that gear as well.
I think it will end up fine.