There are so many posts in this thread saying "it's just the way things are" and almost all are ignoring the article the thread is based on which is titled that cash shops make sense ie they should be in this game.
Shouldn't you be debating why they should or shouldn't be in subscription MMO's instead of saying over and over that you don't mind paying the money or refuse to?
Take a look at AoC cash shop (the beta for this one) and can one operson even come up with a sensible post as to why it should happen in TSW? Accepting the fact that they will does not count.
What exactly do you want? A discussion based on which side? The player or the game company, obviously ooposing sides.
Company's side: Obvious, they want the money.
Player's side: None, aimed at those that everything ingame. (but here it becomes grey as the contention many of you have is that it's game changing-and that's a whole other debate).
By saying it's not wanted is fine, and if we all said so and were adamant about it, they'd disappear.
But they're not, and why? Because some gamers still pour the money in them, like it or not. It's REALITY! Saying it's bad and evil changes nothing if the person actually paying into doesn't stop.
This is the only thing about the game that gives me pause so far. I'm so damn tired of companies double dipping. You either use a subscription plan, or a cash shop. Not both. This is the exact reason why I stopped playing LotRO.
Unfortunately, far too many of our fellow players have more disposable income than they do sense, otherwise these sorts of schemes wouldn't keep reappearing.
I stopped playing LOTRO due to the tude f2p brought in.
This is the only thing about the game that gives me pause so far. I'm so damn tired of companies double dipping. You either use a subscription plan, or a cash shop. Not both. This is the exact reason why I stopped playing LotRO.
Unfortunately, far too many of our fellow players have more disposable income than they do sense, otherwise these sorts of schemes wouldn't keep reappearing.
I stopped playing LOTRO due to the tude f2p brought in.
Agreed. I found that the cash shop brought into LOTRO wasn't really what I thought was necessary for it. So I stopped playing it.
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.
Yes, and vote with your own wallet. My 'justifications' as you put are not meant for anyone to be a slave to. Simply give your reasons why you don't think it's good and move on.
I see your reasons and respect them, I won't get upset because they don't coincide with mine, but i won't say or act like you're the lesser of this argument for it.
What exactly do you want? A discussion based on which side? The player or the game company, obviously ooposing sides.
Company's side: Obvious, they want the money.
Player's side: None, aimed at those that everything ingame. (but here it becomes grey as the contention many of you have is that it's game changing-and that's a whole other debate).
By saying it's not wanted is fine, and if we all said so and were adamant about it, they'd disappear.
But they're not, and why? Because some gamers still pour the money in them, like it or not. It's REALITY! Saying it's bad and evil changes nothing if the person actually paying into doesn't stop.
You are right, it is just like goldsellers, everyone say they are bad but some people still buy gold from them.
Either everyone stop buying junk or a large part of the playerbase just stop playing until they take them away, that is the only 2 options we have.
Off course in the end I think this will eventually be what kills off the P2P games, why pay 15 bucks amount when you can buy a B2P game or get a F2P game? The reason people like P2P used to be because it was all included.
There are so many posts in this thread saying "it's just the way things are" and almost all are ignoring the article the thread is based on which is titled that cash shops make sense ie they should be in this game.
Shouldn't you be debating why they should or shouldn't be in subscription MMO's instead of saying over and over that you don't mind paying the money or refuse to?
Take a look at AoC cash shop (the beta for this one) and can one operson even come up with a sensible post as to why it should happen in TSW? Accepting the fact that they will does not count.
What exactly do you want? A discussion based on which side? The player or the game company, obviously ooposing sides.
Company's side: Obvious, they want the money.
Player's side: None, aimed at those that everything ingame. (but here it becomes grey as the contention many of you have is that it's game changing-and that's a whole other debate).
By saying it's not wanted is fine, and if we all said so and were adamant about it, they'd disappear.
But they're not, and why? Because some gamers still pour the money in them, like it or not. It's REALITY! Saying it's bad and evil changes nothing if the person actually paying into doesn't stop.
I really wish there were enough of us who would vote with our wallets to make an impact but i do accept that there aren't and that the general consumers will pay however grudgingly.
The article itself wasn't about how it made monetary sense to the publisher. This is something that is a given, every company exists to make money and that is their right. But, the majority of the posts in the thread are either.. it's there, accept it..or no wai. I don't really see much in the way of discussion as to why they should be there from the gamer side other than the acceptance of the way things are.
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.
Yes, and vote with your own wallet. My 'justifications' as you put are not meant for anyone to be a slave to. Simply give your reasons why you don't think it's good and move on.
I see your reasons and respect them, I won't get upset because they don't coincide with mine, but i won't say or act like you're the lesser of this argument for it.
Except that all the new games are going some version of f2p. What do you do if you have no other choice if you want to play online games? hmm? Oh wait, I know. Put up with it because no one wants to protest it before it goes into effect, and apparently everyone should just keep their mouths shut about it because its inevitable. Thats how we have things like slavery happen. Protesting and trying to change it is the only way it will happen. Money is not the answer.
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.
Yes, and vote with your own wallet. My 'justifications' as you put are not meant for anyone to be a slave to. Simply give your reasons why you don't think it's good and move on.
I see your reasons and respect them, I won't get upset because they don't coincide with mine, but i won't say or act like you're the lesser of this argument for it.
As I see and respect your reasons as well. I do as I please with my money as do we all. Just stating that some of the people that do happen to make these comments about how they make the sub-fee w/ cash shop sound justifiable, when it's not. Wasn't trying to sound irrational and rude if I happened to be. Just bugs me when people assume that EVERYONE has disposable income. Mean't no disrespect.
I'm fully employed too and own my own house. What you aren't getting is alot of people here don't have a problem paying a fair price for a quality product...they have a problem being nickle and dimed for every little thing and have the quality of the product suffer for it.
I'd rather go out to a resturaunt and spend $50 for a meal then go to a resturant, be charged $20 for the meal, $5 to park, $5 to use the washroom, $1 for a napkin, $4 to rent silverware, etc.
Even if with the nickle and diming I only ended up paying $40 for the meal...I'd rather spend $50 and NOT be nickle and dimed...because the very act of nickle and diming RUINS the dining experience. It the same reason why "All Inclusive" vacation packages are so popular.
People don't want to have to worry about spending money for every little thing....as long as they can afford the admission fee...they can just concentrate on enjoying the experience and not worry about how much they are spending.
What most pro cash-shop enthusiasts do not understand is that this business model WILL NOT STOP AT FLAIR ITEMS once the market proves that the consumers are willing to pay !
The decline of online gaming has already started, and we , as consumers, are the ones to blame for not making a stand. Just look at this :
"There are millions, hundreds of millions of people willing to invest even though they aren't obliged to. The crucial part of the design is not having to invest, but wanting to. Most people in the Bigpoint universe don't ever pay," he adds, before lining up Valve in his sights. "But if they want to pay, don't just offer hats - offer them something that will help them."
And believe me, soon, big publishers will follow suit. Rough times ahead...
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.
Yes, and vote with your own wallet. My 'justifications' as you put are not meant for anyone to be a slave to. Simply give your reasons why you don't think it's good and move on.
I see your reasons and respect them, I won't get upset because they don't coincide with mine, but i won't say or act like you're the lesser of this argument for it.
Except that all the new games are going some version of f2p. What do you do if you have no other choice if you want to play online games? hmm? Oh wait, I know. Put up with it because no one wants to protest it before it goes into effect, and apparently everyone should just keep their mouths shut about it because its inevitable. Thats how we have things like slavery happen. Protesting and trying to change it is the only way it will happen. Money is not the answer.
As I do agree as well. We shouldn't have to be subjected to dealing with it. Nor should we keep quiet about something like this. I for one do not agree with how when a game like this comes out that it HAS to be tolerated for how their payment methods work. It's wrong, somethings in time do change. But it doesn't make it any less greater than the sum of the whole. We have an ability to be able to stand up to these things. So let's exercise the right to speak up and say something.
The primary difference between "capitalism vis-a-vis gas prices" and "capitalism vis-a-vis P2P + cash shop" is that while people need to drive, they don't need to play video games with cash shops. Pretty significant difference. :-)
Example:
1) Joe America lives in Townsville, but works in Cityville which is 65 miles away from Townsville and the two are not connected by some form of rapid, public transportation. Ergo, Joe must purchase gas so that he can get to work.
2) After work, Joe wants to play some video games. However, he really, really hates that companies are moving to a sub + cash shop model and doesn't want to support it. So he doesn't; he just plays games that don't operate around this model, as there are many games that don't.
It's a pretty simplistic depiction of transportation options, but I'm sure you understand the point that I'm making. Granted, I hardly disagree with your assertion that corporate greed has been on the ascendant over the past, oh, two hundred-odd years. There are a lot of problems resultant from our country's gradual change from democracy to plutocracy, but that's a conversation for another forum. ;-)
Except that all the new games are going some version of f2p. What do you do if you have no other choice if you want to play online games? hmm? Oh wait, I know. Put up with it.
Well, you have to ask yourself "Why are all these games are doing that?"
Like anything with services, the customer shapes them to their needs and demands, else the company goes out of business. It's called a business model for a reason. Whether I agree or not with your stance on CS's in games, the reality is it's up to us, the consumer to show them what is accepted and what isn't.
Proof is in the pudding, and only after they see that it isn't profitable or wanted by the majority of players, then you'll see a shift in how they are designed.
Making thread upon thread railing against CS's or RMT's does little to change the game's incentives to add them to their games, or else these forums would have changed their minds way before the making of TSW, or SW:TOR or even GW2.
Discussing them, on the other hand, is quite constructive as it gives other readers information to better understand and maybe help change their mind.
They should ask the Bigpoint guys from the few days ago article, i mean why just give them some hat, they should give them something worth it for their money on top of their box+sub+subway ticket to go to work. Those business men really ...
I'm fully employed too and own my own house. What you aren't getting is alot of people here don't have a problem paying a fair price for a quality product...they have a problem being nickle and dimed for every little thing and have the quality of the product suffer for it.
I'd rather go out to a resturaunt and spend $50 for a meal then go to a resturant, be charged $20 for the meal, $5 to park, $5 to use the washroom, $1 for a napkin, $4 to rent silverware, etc.
Even if with the nickle and diming I only ended up paying $40 for the meal...I'd rather spend $50 and NOT be nickle and dimed...because the very act of nickle and diming RUINS the dining experience. It the same reason why "All Inclusive" vacation packages are so popular.
People don't want to have to worry about spending money for every little thing....as long as they can afford the admission fee...they can just concentrate on enjoying the experience and not worry about how much they are spending.
EXACTLY. You put it perfectly.
I don't mind paying a flat amount. I mind the nickle and diming me to death. If a restaurant charged me that way, I'd throw a fit. I'd rather pay more, and have it all done, than constantly having to pay a little here and there. You know what? I'd pay the $20 a month. $25 a month. Even $30 a month if I could avoid being nickle and dimed and had access to the full meal without extra charges being tacked on.
I want to enjoy my meal, not worry about the price because I'm being charged all the extras. How do you feel going to a hotel only to find that to have your tv on is going to cost you money, that they charge extra not only for long distance calls, but just to have internet in your room, that you're charged extra for a safe in your room, etc. Its slimy. And btw, I work in hotels and we do exactly that. I hate that crap but I don't have a choice because the managers set the rules. If I want a job, I to suck it up.
Bigpoint has never made a game. They've made money schemes with pretty facepaint to make it look like a game, but they are absolutely the most overtly greedy company I've seen when it comes to this new wave of payment methods.
They're a big proponent in the oversaturation of the browser based games, too.
I really wish there were enough of us who would vote with our wallets to make an impact but i do accept that there aren't and that the general consumers will pay however grudgingly.
The article itself wasn't about how it made monetary sense to the publisher. This is something that is a given, every company exists to make money and that is their right. But, the majority of the posts in the thread are either.. it's there, accept it..or no wai. I don't really see much in the way of discussion as to why they should be there from the gamer side other than the acceptance of the way things are.
We already know why it is there, it was because Smedley found a new way to bleed his cutomers and the rest of the Ceos thought it was a great idea.
The real problem is that if you don't want a game with a cashshop you can choose between Vanguard and Mortal online (and a few other small niche games). It is already too late to stop them.
What we can do is refuse to play any P2P game with a cashshop and go for F2P and B2P games instead. It might show EA, Activision and SOE the light and force them to close down the shops.
Because face it, many shops already sells stuff like XP pots and useful items are just a moment away.
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.
Yes, and vote with your own wallet. My 'justifications' as you put are not meant for anyone to be a slave to. Simply give your reasons why you don't think it's good and move on.
I see your reasons and respect them, I won't get upset because they don't coincide with mine, but i won't say or act like you're the lesser of this argument for it.
As I see and respect your reasons as well. I do as I please with my money as do we all. Just stating that some of the people that do happen to make these comments about how they make the sub-fee w/ cash shop sound justifiable, when it's not. Wasn't trying to sound irrational and rude if I happened to be. Just bugs me when people assume that EVERYONE has disposable income. Mean't no disrespect.
And you seriously think that here in these forums is the right place for it? Take it outside, make petitions, go to the news if you must. Opinons are great, fighting injustice is great too (perceived or otherwise).
Debating is to share view points and share ideas often opposing to be sure, not make policy. There are far greater means to get that accomplished.
I'm fully employed too and own my own house. What you aren't getting is alot of people here don't have a problem paying a fair price for a quality product...they have a problem being nickle and dimed for every little thing and have the quality of the product suffer for it.
I'd rather go out to a resturaunt and spend $50 for a meal then go to a resturant, be charged $20 for the meal, $5 to park, $5 to use the washroom, $1 for a napkin, $4 to rent silverware, etc.
Even if with the nickle and diming I only ended up paying $40 for the meal...I'd rather spend $50 and NOT be nickle and dimed...because the very act of nickle and diming RUINS the dining experience. It the same reason why "All Inclusive" vacation packages are so popular.
People don't want to have to worry about spending money for every little thing....as long as they can afford the admission fee...they can just concentrate on enjoying the experience and not worry about how much they are spending.
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.
Yes, and vote with your own wallet. My 'justifications' as you put are not meant for anyone to be a slave to. Simply give your reasons why you don't think it's good and move on.
I see your reasons and respect them, I won't get upset because they don't coincide with mine, but i won't say or act like you're the lesser of this argument for it.
As I see and respect your reasons as well. I do as I please with my money as do we all. Just stating that some of the people that do happen to make these comments about how they make the sub-fee w/ cash shop sound justifiable, when it's not. Wasn't trying to sound irrational and rude if I happened to be. Just bugs me when people assume that EVERYONE has disposable income. Mean't no disrespect.
And you seriously think that here in these forums is the right place for it? Take it outside, make petitions, go to the news if you must. Opinons are great, fighting injustice is great too (perceived or otherwise).
Debating is to share view points and share ideas often opposing to be sure, not make policy. There are far greater means to get that accomplished.
Of course I don't seriously think this is the place for it. Just killing time and checking out today's topics and agendas. Plus, this IS MMORPG right? About as close to talking about it and putting our heads together on a topic rather than barking at their forums and making no headway.
Of course I will do what I can to see that it's the wrong idea that they are going for. But it doesn't mean that I can't get more people involved on different channels. /shrug
As I see and respect your reasons as well. I do as I please with my money as do we all. Just stating that some of the people that do happen to make these comments about how they make the sub-fee w/ cash shop sound justifiable, when it's not. Wasn't trying to sound irrational and rude if I happened to be. Just bugs me when people assume that EVERYONE has disposable income. Mean't no disrespect.
I have this feeling others are perceiving me as a 'defender' of CS's. lol
I'm not. I find injustice in Nestle taking water from the great lakes, bottling it and shipping it to third world countries because of the impact on the ecosystem, but unless I'm willing to actually to go out and do something, petitioning, rallying, trying to bring the truth to the masses that may be unaware, not much will happen.
Going to a conservation site and repeating how bad and evil it is will do very little in the grand schemes of things. Talking about it is something very different, but that's it. I share my views in hopes it reaches other. I don't insult the intelligence of ppl that disagree or try to invalidate their opinions. You can't, it theirs, no matter the logic, validity or truthfulness of it.
As I see and respect your reasons as well. I do as I please with my money as do we all. Just stating that some of the people that do happen to make these comments about how they make the sub-fee w/ cash shop sound justifiable, when it's not. Wasn't trying to sound irrational and rude if I happened to be. Just bugs me when people assume that EVERYONE has disposable income. Mean't no disrespect.
I have this feeling others are perceiving me as a 'defender' of CS's. lol
I'm not. I get find injustice in Nestle taking water from the great lakes, bottling it and shipping it to third world countries, but unless I'm willing to actually to out and do something, petitioning, rallying, trying to bring the truth to the masses that may be unaware, not much will happen.
Going to a conservation site and repeating how bad and evil it is will do very little in the grand schemes of things. Talking about it is something very different, but that's it. I share my views in hopes it reaches other. I don't insult the intelligence of ppl that disagree or try to invalidate their opinions. You can't, it theirs, no matter the logic, validity or truthfulness of it.
Yeah. I see how that could be something of a problem. Lol.
But I do see where your going with your statement.
What most pro cash-shop enthusiasts do not understand is that this business model WILL NOT STOP AT FLAIR ITEMS once the market proves that the consumers are willing to pay !
The decline of online gaming has already started, and we , as consumers, are the ones to blame for not making a stand. Just look at this :
"There are millions, hundreds of millions of people willing to invest even though they aren't obliged to. The crucial part of the design is not having to invest, but wanting to. Most people in the Bigpoint universe don't ever pay," he adds, before lining up Valve in his sights. "But if they want to pay, don't just offer hats - offer them something that will help them."
And believe me, soon, big publishers will follow suit. Rough times ahead...
That's just it, if us consumers are willing to pay, then how can it be the company's fault to want to capitalize on this. lol
What most pro cash-shop enthusiasts do not understand is that this business model WILL NOT STOP AT FLAIR ITEMS once the market proves that the consumers are willing to pay !
The decline of online gaming has already started, and we , as consumers, are the ones to blame for not making a stand. Just look at this :
"There are millions, hundreds of millions of people willing to invest even though they aren't obliged to. The crucial part of the design is not having to invest, but wanting to. Most people in the Bigpoint universe don't ever pay," he adds, before lining up Valve in his sights. "But if they want to pay, don't just offer hats - offer them something that will help them."
And believe me, soon, big publishers will follow suit. Rough times ahead...
That's just it, if us consumers are willing to pay, then how can it be the company's fault to want to capitalize on this. lol
People are also willing to pay insurance companies for wayyyy over priced health care even though they are being overcharged for it in comparison to every other country in the world. That doesn't make it a good idea. It just shows that people will believe anything.
Same thing with MMO's. If you spend all your time banging people in the head with how its a great idea to have cash shops and eventually just stop offering them the choice altogether, they just accept it "because thats the way it is".
Comments
What exactly do you want? A discussion based on which side? The player or the game company, obviously ooposing sides.
Company's side: Obvious, they want the money.
Player's side: None, aimed at those that everything ingame. (but here it becomes grey as the contention many of you have is that it's game changing-and that's a whole other debate).
By saying it's not wanted is fine, and if we all said so and were adamant about it, they'd disappear.
But they're not, and why? Because some gamers still pour the money in them, like it or not. It's REALITY! Saying it's bad and evil changes nothing if the person actually paying into doesn't stop.
I stopped playing LOTRO due to the tude f2p brought in.
Agreed. I found that the cash shop brought into LOTRO wasn't really what I thought was necessary for it. So I stopped playing it.
Yes, and vote with your own wallet. My 'justifications' as you put are not meant for anyone to be a slave to. Simply give your reasons why you don't think it's good and move on.
I see your reasons and respect them, I won't get upset because they don't coincide with mine, but i won't say or act like you're the lesser of this argument for it.
You are right, it is just like goldsellers, everyone say they are bad but some people still buy gold from them.
Either everyone stop buying junk or a large part of the playerbase just stop playing until they take them away, that is the only 2 options we have.
Off course in the end I think this will eventually be what kills off the P2P games, why pay 15 bucks amount when you can buy a B2P game or get a F2P game? The reason people like P2P used to be because it was all included.
I really wish there were enough of us who would vote with our wallets to make an impact but i do accept that there aren't and that the general consumers will pay however grudgingly.
The article itself wasn't about how it made monetary sense to the publisher. This is something that is a given, every company exists to make money and that is their right. But, the majority of the posts in the thread are either.. it's there, accept it..or no wai. I don't really see much in the way of discussion as to why they should be there from the gamer side other than the acceptance of the way things are.
Except that all the new games are going some version of f2p. What do you do if you have no other choice if you want to play online games? hmm? Oh wait, I know. Put up with it because no one wants to protest it before it goes into effect, and apparently everyone should just keep their mouths shut about it because its inevitable. Thats how we have things like slavery happen. Protesting and trying to change it is the only way it will happen. Money is not the answer.
As I see and respect your reasons as well. I do as I please with my money as do we all. Just stating that some of the people that do happen to make these comments about how they make the sub-fee w/ cash shop sound justifiable, when it's not. Wasn't trying to sound irrational and rude if I happened to be. Just bugs me when people assume that EVERYONE has disposable income. Mean't no disrespect.
I'm fully employed too and own my own house. What you aren't getting is alot of people here don't have a problem paying a fair price for a quality product...they have a problem being nickle and dimed for every little thing and have the quality of the product suffer for it.
I'd rather go out to a resturaunt and spend $50 for a meal then go to a resturant, be charged $20 for the meal, $5 to park, $5 to use the washroom, $1 for a napkin, $4 to rent silverware, etc.
Even if with the nickle and diming I only ended up paying $40 for the meal...I'd rather spend $50 and NOT be nickle and dimed...because the very act of nickle and diming RUINS the dining experience. It the same reason why "All Inclusive" vacation packages are so popular.
People don't want to have to worry about spending money for every little thing....as long as they can afford the admission fee...they can just concentrate on enjoying the experience and not worry about how much they are spending.
What most pro cash-shop enthusiasts do not understand is that this business model WILL NOT STOP AT FLAIR ITEMS once the market proves that the consumers are willing to pay !
The decline of online gaming has already started, and we , as consumers, are the ones to blame for not making a stand. Just look at this :
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/bigpoint-publishers-dont-understand-monetisation
"There are millions, hundreds of millions of people willing to invest even though they aren't obliged to. The crucial part of the design is not having to invest, but wanting to. Most people in the Bigpoint universe don't ever pay," he adds, before lining up Valve in his sights. "But if they want to pay, don't just offer hats - offer them something that will help them."
And believe me, soon, big publishers will follow suit. Rough times ahead...
If box price + sub + cash shop makes sense to you, then I guess you'll be happy when they turn TSW this into a F2P game. FunCom FTW!
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
As I do agree as well. We shouldn't have to be subjected to dealing with it. Nor should we keep quiet about something like this. I for one do not agree with how when a game like this comes out that it HAS to be tolerated for how their payment methods work. It's wrong, somethings in time do change. But it doesn't make it any less greater than the sum of the whole. We have an ability to be able to stand up to these things. So let's exercise the right to speak up and say something.
@Moirae
The primary difference between "capitalism vis-a-vis gas prices" and "capitalism vis-a-vis P2P + cash shop" is that while people need to drive, they don't need to play video games with cash shops. Pretty significant difference. :-)
Example:
1) Joe America lives in Townsville, but works in Cityville which is 65 miles away from Townsville and the two are not connected by some form of rapid, public transportation. Ergo, Joe must purchase gas so that he can get to work.
2) After work, Joe wants to play some video games. However, he really, really hates that companies are moving to a sub + cash shop model and doesn't want to support it. So he doesn't; he just plays games that don't operate around this model, as there are many games that don't.
It's a pretty simplistic depiction of transportation options, but I'm sure you understand the point that I'm making. Granted, I hardly disagree with your assertion that corporate greed has been on the ascendant over the past, oh, two hundred-odd years. There are a lot of problems resultant from our country's gradual change from democracy to plutocracy, but that's a conversation for another forum. ;-)
Well, you have to ask yourself "Why are all these games are doing that?"
Like anything with services, the customer shapes them to their needs and demands, else the company goes out of business. It's called a business model for a reason. Whether I agree or not with your stance on CS's in games, the reality is it's up to us, the consumer to show them what is accepted and what isn't.
Proof is in the pudding, and only after they see that it isn't profitable or wanted by the majority of players, then you'll see a shift in how they are designed.
Making thread upon thread railing against CS's or RMT's does little to change the game's incentives to add them to their games, or else these forums would have changed their minds way before the making of TSW, or SW:TOR or even GW2.
Discussing them, on the other hand, is quite constructive as it gives other readers information to better understand and maybe help change their mind.
They should ask the Bigpoint guys from the few days ago article, i mean why just give them some hat, they should give them something worth it for their money on top of their box+sub+subway ticket to go to work. Those business men really ...
EXACTLY. You put it perfectly.
I don't mind paying a flat amount. I mind the nickle and diming me to death. If a restaurant charged me that way, I'd throw a fit. I'd rather pay more, and have it all done, than constantly having to pay a little here and there. You know what? I'd pay the $20 a month. $25 a month. Even $30 a month if I could avoid being nickle and dimed and had access to the full meal without extra charges being tacked on.
I want to enjoy my meal, not worry about the price because I'm being charged all the extras. How do you feel going to a hotel only to find that to have your tv on is going to cost you money, that they charge extra not only for long distance calls, but just to have internet in your room, that you're charged extra for a safe in your room, etc. Its slimy. And btw, I work in hotels and we do exactly that. I hate that crap but I don't have a choice because the managers set the rules. If I want a job, I to suck it up.
Bigpoint has never made a game. They've made money schemes with pretty facepaint to make it look like a game, but they are absolutely the most overtly greedy company I've seen when it comes to this new wave of payment methods.
They're a big proponent in the oversaturation of the browser based games, too.
We already know why it is there, it was because Smedley found a new way to bleed his cutomers and the rest of the Ceos thought it was a great idea.
The real problem is that if you don't want a game with a cashshop you can choose between Vanguard and Mortal online (and a few other small niche games). It is already too late to stop them.
What we can do is refuse to play any P2P game with a cashshop and go for F2P and B2P games instead. It might show EA, Activision and SOE the light and force them to close down the shops.
Because face it, many shops already sells stuff like XP pots and useful items are just a moment away.
And you seriously think that here in these forums is the right place for it? Take it outside, make petitions, go to the news if you must. Opinons are great, fighting injustice is great too (perceived or otherwise).
Debating is to share view points and share ideas often opposing to be sure, not make policy. There are far greater means to get that accomplished.
Here here! A well put statement!
Of course I don't seriously think this is the place for it. Just killing time and checking out today's topics and agendas. Plus, this IS MMORPG right? About as close to talking about it and putting our heads together on a topic rather than barking at their forums and making no headway.
Of course I will do what I can to see that it's the wrong idea that they are going for. But it doesn't mean that I can't get more people involved on different channels. /shrug
I have this feeling others are perceiving me as a 'defender' of CS's. lol
I'm not. I find injustice in Nestle taking water from the great lakes, bottling it and shipping it to third world countries because of the impact on the ecosystem, but unless I'm willing to actually to go out and do something, petitioning, rallying, trying to bring the truth to the masses that may be unaware, not much will happen.
Going to a conservation site and repeating how bad and evil it is will do very little in the grand schemes of things. Talking about it is something very different, but that's it. I share my views in hopes it reaches other. I don't insult the intelligence of ppl that disagree or try to invalidate their opinions. You can't, it theirs, no matter the logic, validity or truthfulness of it.
Yeah. I see how that could be something of a problem. Lol.
But I do see where your going with your statement.
That's just it, if us consumers are willing to pay, then how can it be the company's fault to want to capitalize on this. lol
People are also willing to pay insurance companies for wayyyy over priced health care even though they are being overcharged for it in comparison to every other country in the world. That doesn't make it a good idea. It just shows that people will believe anything.
Same thing with MMO's. If you spend all your time banging people in the head with how its a great idea to have cash shops and eventually just stop offering them the choice altogether, they just accept it "because thats the way it is".