There's nothing wrong with cash shops. There is something wrong with having a cash shop AND a sub fee.
This.
The sub is supposed to be paying for ongoing development of the game, which includes everything you'll see in the cash shop. By using it, you'll be spending your money on something that you've already paid for with your subscription. It's like paying a monthly fee for parking, then having to pay a daily premium to enter the lot.
People are also willing to pay insurance companies for wayyyy over priced health care even though they are being overcharged for it in comparison to every other country in the world. That doesn't make it a good idea. It just shows that people will believe anything.
Same thing with MMO's. If you spend all your time banging people in the head with how its a great idea to have cash shops and eventually just stop offering them the choice altogether, they just accept it "because thats the way it is".
How can you compare something that the government is responsable for, and which the three tiers of income get affected differently? Low and middle class get hits hard yes, but do high class? Doubt it since they're the ones donating and financing the campaigns of those govenrment candidates that help shape those laws.
If no one paid for anything in the CS's, you really don't think they'd go away? Having them in your fav game is really that hurtful to your gaming experience?
Not having healthcare because it's too expensive will cost you dearly if you're ever sick. What will not owning that blue panda that sings do for your gaming?
And besides, isn't that what voting is supposed to help change?
That's just it, if us consumers are willing to pay, then how can it be the company's fault to want to capitalize on this. lol
People are also willing to pay insurance companies for wayyyy over priced health care even though they are being overcharged for it in comparison to every other country in the world. That doesn't make it a good idea. It just shows that people will believe anything.
Same thing with MMO's. If you spend all your time banging people in the head with how its a great idea to have cash shops and eventually just stop offering them the choice altogether, they just accept it "because thats the way it is".
And unfortunatly, nowadays. The companies and corporations assume that this business model is methodically correct to use. And they assume that we have to pay such fees and just move on with our lives when we could voice our opinions directly to them and say that we don't agree with it.
But yeah, you can't really blame them for a system that no one says anything about.
I'm going to let my wallet do the talking on this one. I was going to play TSW but not with it having a sub fee and cash shop. They need to pick one or the other but not both and I'll come back.
People are also willing to pay insurance companies for wayyyy over priced health care even though they are being overcharged for it in comparison to every other country in the world. That doesn't make it a good idea. It just shows that people will believe anything.
Same thing with MMO's. If you spend all your time banging people in the head with how its a great idea to have cash shops and eventually just stop offering them the choice altogether, they just accept it "because thats the way it is".
How can you compare something that the government is responsable for, and which the three tiers of income get affected differently? Low and middle class get hits hard yes, but do high class? Doubt it since they're the ones donating and financing the campaigns of those govenrment candidates that help shape those laws.
If no one paid for anything in the CS's, you really don't think they'd go away? Having them in your fav game is really that hurtful to your gaming experience?
Not having healthcare because it's too expensive will cost you dearly if you're ever sick. What will not owning that blue panda that sings do for your gaming?
And besides, isn't that what voting is supposed to help change?
And... you miss the point again.
Remember, insurance companies are privatized. The gvt is not responsible for them. So what you just said is moot and my point stands.
Remember, insurance companies are privatized. The gvt is not responsible for them. So what you just said is moot and my point stands.
No I didn't, because I never said I was talking about the american healthcare system. My profile clearly states I'm from Canada, so your assumptions are moot, and MY point still stands. Not privatized here, and still absolutely necessary by law.
Still, the point of not thinking it's a good idea and knowing it is needed as opposed to something that isn't needed but still undesired still is an invalid comparison.
I twas announced that TSW, EQ: next, and Planetside 2 will all have some sort of F2P/cash shop system. It is clearly the wave of the future (actually the wave of the present since its already here). Realistically, at this point, all people can do its choose to play or not to play. And the options to play will grow less and less.
I would argue people should wait and see what extent of a cash shop the game will have and not jump to conclusion via slippery-slope arguments that they are all bad. Even a game that allows race or gender changes or class changes or name changes has a cash shop.
Again the choice is to play or not. As a consumer that is your main choice and ultimately the only thing a company will listen too. But I can guarantee you, the company would not bother with putting in a cash shop of MT system if they did not think there was a market for it. For every person that quites solely based on a cash shop, I would guarantee there are 5 people who will play because there is one or because the addition of the shop to the game will appeal to them.
Yes, and the choice is to drive or not, and to have health care or not. That doesn't make it right. Its still robbery no matter how you dress it up. Just because they CAN charge this way, doesn't mean they should, or that we should just accept it without a word. I protest because I can and its the right thing to do. But its going to come to a point of "no choice". You either accept it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't take part. And that isn't right.
I'm afraid that I can't bring myself to agree with your take on this situation. I think it stems from a breakdown in what we view as "the whole package". If we were to use the parking, sitting at a table, drink of water and the food as the "whole package", and compare that to playing the game, buying items from vendors using in-game money, looting items from mobs as the "whole package" of a game, we almost immediately experience some serious deviations from the presented formula.
Comparing going to a restaurant to playing an MMO just doesn't sit well with me. When I go to a restaurant, I only pay for what I'm using or have the option to use, i.e.: the food that I eat, the beer that I drink, and the costs incurred in order to defray their overhead -- all unavoidable. If I don't want dessert, I don't pay for it. Similarly, in an MMO, if I don't want an extra-special, extra-exclusive Super-cute Chihuahua (fawn-colored) I don't pay for it.
I understand that you're arguing for a world in which the aforementioned Chihuahua is simply available to everyone at no additional cost, and I can see how that makes sense to some people. I'm fairly certain that the purpose served by these cash shops within the microcosm of P2P MMO's is to give subscribers the option to set themselves apart from everyone else, provided they're willing to shell out some extra cash. Blizzard did the same thing with the handful of cash shop stuff they've got available.
It's not much different from me being able to differentiate myself from the army of proles and plebs on my server by putting in the extra effort and accomplishing a difficult in-game task. The only difference is in how we go about it: I put in hours upon hours of gameplay in order to have a full set of bad ass armor, the other guy puts in a few dollars and has himself a Super-cute Chihuahua (fawn-colored). That I'm not able to burn a dozen hours of my time in order to acquire the pet (or even an item that I were actually amenable to having attached to my avatar) doesn't bother me. But since we're not arguing about whether or not cash shops give measurable advantages, but rather that they somehow deny us the ability to access the "whole package", I'll address this.
The answer? It is a money-making device intended to seperate people from their money, but it is an entirely optional one.
Also, the act of being nickel-and-dimed out in the real world is way more of a pain in the ass than it is while in a virtual world. The nickel and diming experience you describe in the dining experience involves stopping, pulling out my wallet, pulling out my money, putting it all away and and continuing on to the next step in the process. In the virtual world? One more click in a seemingly endless stream of clicks.
Remember, insurance companies are privatized. The gvt is not responsible for them. So what you just said is moot and my point stands.
No I didn't, because I never said I was talking about the american healthcare system. My profile clearly states I'm from Canada, so your assumptions are moot, and MY point still stands. Not privatized here, and still absolutely necessary by law.
Sorry, I missed that. I just assumed you're American. I'm Canadian too but I've been living in the US for years. I'm starting to automatically assume most people are American, which used to annoy me when I was living in Canada and I should really stop that particular arrogance. I apologize.
The thing is, in the US, what I said is correct. And regardless, its still wrong to nickle and dime people to death. A great point was made. I'd rather pay a higher fee and have it all included, than a lower fee and be nickle and dimed. I want to enjoy the game, not worry about what the cost is.
I'm going to let my wallet do the talking on this one. I was going to play TSW but not with it having a sub fee and cash shop. They need to pick one or the other but not both and I'll come back.
Better yet, Neither.
This would be a great game for an advertisement based business model. It is set in the "normal" world, so ads for soft drinks, cars, heck even insurance would fit intot he landscape just fine as billboards, vending machines, even ads on tvs in you player housing.
It is so sad to see some fans and others try to defend this. The new trend in everything seems to be "don't fight it because it is inevitable" and the ridiculous assumption as fact "you'll still play it anyway."
Gamers didn't fight DRM, and now there are schemes such as the upcoming Origin and Ubisoft's must login online even to play singleplayer. Gamers aren't fighting DLC being withheld from games and released on the release date with the game separately.
We, as consumers, have the ability to mold the future of the industry. We control what is allowed, by showing dissatisfaction with our wallets. When we give up on that, we give the industry more and more to the monetary interests that have no interest in games and only have interest in money.. the bottom line...what more abuses and tricks can be used to take peoples' money. It is never too late to show dissatisfaction and refuse to buy such products. Everything, including DRM, DLC, and cash shops, on top of subscriptions and expansions, can be stopped.
Asheron's Call had monthly updates with bug fixes, a storyline, added content, etc for free. Look at what gamers have allowed to happen since.
Take a stand and ignore the fans and other interests that work to allow these abuses.
The majority of all the gaming communities are made up of kids,which are EASY to trick,heck,it's not weven their money they spend.The devs know this and that;'s why it works.
can you back it up?what you provided is null,kids don't bother completing quizes and the like.
You made that assertive claim that most gamers are kids so it is up to you to provide proof, not me. I simply was saying that according to that, they are in their 30s.
I'm going to let my wallet do the talking on this one. I was going to play TSW but not with it having a sub fee and cash shop. They need to pick one or the other but not both and I'll come back.
Better yet, Neither.
This would be a great game for an advertisement based business model. It is set in the "normal" world, so ads for soft drinks, cars, heck even insurance would fit intot he landscape just fine as billboards, vending machines, even ads on tvs in you player housing.
Knowing the path they have chosen they might just add that in on top of the other two. -_-
I was about to make a long post on my opinion on this topic, but the post above (by Haight) really made all the right points. This is not a big deal, from what I can tell it won't have any impact on PvP or raiding.
As an adult w/ a full-time job I don't mind paying for something if it can save me time grinding in game. I have a finite budget of gaming time, and that is more of a problem than a few $$ here and there.
I twas announced that TSW, EQ: next, and Planetside 2 will all have some sort of F2P/cash shop system. It is clearly the wave of the future (actually the wave of the present since its already here). Realistically, at this point, all people can do its choose to play or not to play. And the options to play will grow less and less.
I would argue people should wait and see what extent of a cash shop the game will have and not jump to conclusion via slippery-slope arguments that they are all bad. Even a game that allows race or gender changes or class changes or name changes has a cash shop.
Again the choice is to play or not. As a consumer that is your main choice and ultimately the only thing a company will listen too. But I can guarantee you, the company would not bother with putting in a cash shop of MT system if they did not think there was a market for it. For every person that quites solely based on a cash shop, I would guarantee there are 5 people who will play because there is one or because the addition of the shop to the game will appeal to them.
That only shows that some companies are trying to make it the future. If people don't buy into it, it "obviously" WON'T be the wave of the future.
Yes, and the choice is to drive or not, and to have health care or not. That doesn't make it right. Its still robbery no matter how you dress it up. Just because they CAN charge this way, doesn't mean they should, or that we should just accept it without a word. I protest because I can and its the right thing to do. But its going to come to a point of "no choice". You either accept it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't take part. And that isn't right.
Your argument of right and wrong is valiant, even if short-sighted. Mmo's have exploded into mainstream a while back and now it's a money grab. We all know this, they are there to make money.
The quality of anything else out there is the same. Electronics, clothing, you name it. They are all there to make money, no matter if some think they shouldn't do it that way or not. Trends are what set prices and/or quality of said items.
You may be indignant of how the cotton dresses you liked are now made, but it's their right to try to make more money by maybe cutting a little on the stitching. It's their clothing, you have no say in it. No matter what you believe to have invested in it. If they happen to lose you as a customer, it's a learning experience they have to go through to see if it's more profitanle or not. If it is, then I'm sure the 'losses' will taken in good graces.
I'm going to let my wallet do the talking on this one. I was going to play TSW but not with it having a sub fee and cash shop. They need to pick one or the other but not both and I'll come back.
Better yet, Neither.
This would be a great game for an advertisement based business model. It is set in the "normal" world, so ads for soft drinks, cars, heck even insurance would fit intot he landscape just fine as billboards, vending machines, even ads on tvs in you player housing.
Knowing the path they have chosen they might just add that in on top of the other two. -_-
I shudder to think the consequences of that. >_>''
Given the highly customizable nature of TSW’s characters and the fact that clothes are only a visual item, I think a clothing cash shop is fine to have in addition to a subscription fee. This business model allows for additional revenue while also allowing players to have access to unique looks they wouldn’t ordinarily have with the game.
I see many complaints a Cash Shop should not be in a subscription game at all. This statement is just too generic to make any sense to mindlessly throw it out over and over. If the items in the store are vanity only, then it is much different from those which offer an in game advantage.
Also, coupled many state if they pay a subscription, they should gain access to everything in the game. This is true only so far as the scope of what you have access to is the content developed under the budget provided by the subscription and initial purchase.
If additional content is developed, like vanity clothes, which is funded using the revenue from the sales of these virtual items in game, then it is being rather obstinate to demand you also have access to them. Your subscription free is not what is funding the project, so you have no rights to the items.
So the next complaint would be that there shouldn’t be anything in the game that my subscription doesn’t fund. This is a poor complaint and resonates from the mindset; if I cannot afford it then no one should have it.
The opposite is the complaint which asks to raise the subscription fee. This too is a poor complaint which doesn’t take into consideration those who want to play the game and could care less about vanity items. Those players shouldn’t be charged for such things they have no interest in.
The median ground is to have a basic subscription fee, which gives access to all parts of the game. Then offer to supply those who want more in the way of vanity items what they desire through additional fees. This separate cash shop will expand and grow or shrink and fail based on the revenue it produces alone and remain separate from the subscription fee.
Yes, and the choice is to drive or not, and to have health care or not. That doesn't make it right. Its still robbery no matter how you dress it up. Just because they CAN charge this way, doesn't mean they should, or that we should just accept it without a word. I protest because I can and its the right thing to do. But its going to come to a point of "no choice". You either accept it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't take part. And that isn't right.
Your argument of right and wrong is valiant, even if short-sighted. Mmo's have exploded into mainstream a while back and now it's a money grab. We all know this, they are there to make money.
The quality of anything else out there is the same. Electronics, clothing, you name it. They are all there to make money, no matter if some think they shouldn't do it that way or not. Trends are what set prices and/or quality of said items.
You may be indignant of how the cotton dresses you liked are now made, but it's their right to try to make more money by maybe cutting a little on the stitching. It's their clothing, you have no say in it. No matter what you believe to have invested in it. If they happen to lose you as a customer, it's a learning experience they have to go through to see if it's more profitanle or not. If it is, then I'm sure the 'losses' will taken in good graces.
Entitlement does not equate righteousness.
And expecting quality along with not being robbed blind is NOT entitlement. Its about whats right. Taking advantage of people just to increase the size of your wallet is NOT right. If expecting to be treated with respect, even by companies, is entitlement, then I'm fine with that. Let me add that I'm willing to pay what something is worth, I am NOT willing to pay vastly more than that just because some greedy person thinks they should be able to get away with robbing me of my money. They might as well just be ambushing me on the street with a knife in their hand.
And expecting quality along with not being robbed blind is NOT entitlement. Its about whats right. Taking advantage of people just to increase the size of your wallet is NOT right.
It's only being taken advantage of if the people buying these things are unhappy about their purchases. Most are very happy, because it seems this business model is working.
You personal animosity with these things are fine, but they are not wrong, since they can do anything they wish with their game. They paid for it, or borrowed from ivestors(who want a return pretty quick i might add), and did the marketing research to give them telltale signs as to whether or not it will profitable.
Only by you not buying, and to the same extent others as well, will they see it's not what the players want. It is wrong to YOU, it cannot be generalized if it makes money. They do not force anyone to pay for their items, nor does it have a core changing element of the game.
Wow is a subscription game with a cash shop so whats the difference. I can't see why so many are crying over this yet we hardly hear it from wow players willing to part for flying mounts and other crap.
If you don't like a cash shop then stay away from it, nobody is forcing you to part with your money.
And expecting quality along with not being robbed blind is NOT entitlement. Its about whats right. Taking advantage of people just to increase the size of your wallet is NOT right.
It's only being taken advantage of if the people buying these things are unhappy about their purchases. Most are very happy, because it seems this business model is working.
You personal animosity with these things are fine, but they are not wrong, since they can do anything they wish with their game. They paid for it, or borrowed from ivestors(who want a return pretty quick i might add), and did the marketing research to give them telltale signs as to whether or not it will profitable.
Only by you not buying, and to the same extent others as well, will they see it's not what the players want. It is wrong to YOU, it cannot be generalized if it makes money. They do not force anyone to pay for their items, nor does it have a core changing element of the game.
Oh, so because its their game, I can do anything I want with a hotel room regardless of whether there are people in it and they paid for it for the night, right? They paid for the room for the night, but I can add eroneous charges because I work for the hotel, right? Sudden charges for pillows, or blankets. Or I can hold all the shampoo and coffee at the desk and make people pay $2 each to get one of them. Right?
Noooooo, thats not the way things work and you know it.
You can do what you want with your own house, but once you start affecting the public, things change. There are rules and laws preventing such things, and if I tried that kind of thing at my hotel, people would be livid. Because its wrong. Its taking advantage of them. Simple as that.
Given the highly customizable nature of TSW’s characters and the fact that clothes are only a visual item, I think a clothing cash shop is fine to have in addition to a subscription fee. This business model allows for additional revenue while also allowing players to have access to unique looks they wouldn’t ordinarily have with the game.
I see many complaints a Cash Shop should not be in a subscription game at all. This statement is just too generic to make any sense to mindlessly throw it out over and over. If the items in the store are vanity only, then it is much different from those which offer an in game advantage.
Also, coupled many state if they pay a subscription, they should gain access to everything in the game. This is true only so far as the scope of what you have access to is the content developed under the budget provided by the subscription and initial purchase.
If additional content is developed, like vanity clothes, which is funded using the revenue from the sales of these virtual items in game, then it is being rather obstinate to demand you also have access to them. Your subscription free is not what is funding the project, so you have no rights to the items.
So the next complaint would be that there shouldn’t be anything in the game that my subscription doesn’t fund. This is a poor complaint and resonates from the mindset; if I cannot afford it then no one should have it.
The opposite is the complaint which asks to raise the subscription fee. This too is a poor complaint which doesn’t take into consideration those who want to play the game and could care less about vanity items. Those players shouldn’t be charged for such things they have no interest in.
The median ground is to have a basic subscription fee, which gives access to all parts of the game. Then offer to supply those who want more in the way of vanity items what they desire through additional fees. This separate cash shop will expand and grow or shrink and fail based on the revenue it produces alone and remain separate from the subscription fee.
"Hey Bob, sales in the cash shop are not meeting projections. Got any idea's to improve it?"
"Well Sam I was thinking..... Why don't we make all the gear earned in the game look more suck-ass, and put the really cool looking stuff in the cash shop."
"That sounds fantstic Bob. By the way, did you hear what the sales number's were for that cool looking mount that Shirley & Dave spent a couple weeks on last month?"
"No Sam, what were they?"
"3.8 mil Bob"
"Gee Sam, ya gotta love it when people pay as much for a mount as they do for a game"
"Ya I know Bob, Dick sais there is a sucker born every minute."
It is so sad to see some fans and others try to defend this. The new trend in everything seems to be "don't fight it because it is inevitable" and the ridiculous assumption as fact "you'll still play it anyway."
Gamers didn't fight DRM, and now there are schemes such as the upcoming Origin and Ubisoft's must login online even to play singleplayer. Gamers aren't fighting DLC being withheld from games and released on the release date with the game separately.
We, as consumers, have the ability to mold the future of the industry. We control what is allowed, by showing dissatisfaction with our wallets. When we give up on that, we give the industry more and more to the monetary interests that have no interest in games and only have interest in money.. the bottom line...what more abuses and tricks can be used to take peoples' money. It is never too late to show dissatisfaction and refuse to buy such products. Everything, including DRM, DLC, and cash shops, on top of subscriptions and expansions, can be stopped.
Asheron's Call had monthly updates with bug fixes, a storyline, added content, etc for free. Look at what gamers have allowed to happen since.
Take a stand and ignore the fans and other interests that work to allow these abuses.
The majority of all the gaming communities are made up of kids,which are EASY to trick,heck,it's not weven their money they spend.The devs know this and that;'s why it works.
can you back it up?what you provided is null,kids don't bother completing quizes and the like.
You made that assertive claim that most gamers are kids so it is up to you to provide proof, not me. I simply was saying that according to that, they are in their 30s.
True i can't back it up either but it is by nature more likely a kid would play a game than an adult with a full time job and possibly a family to take care of.You know this yourself.
It seems to me that the MMORPG community at large has gone awry. Its sad to me to see so many MMO players getting so wound up by this cashshop stuff.
As long as the items available to be bought on the cash shop are nothing more than vanity items, (I.E. different looks on items, character renames, character reskins/armor coloring, etc..) I dont see a problem with it. I want one sensible person to give me an arguement on why a cash shop selling vanity items only is a gamebreaking problem.
As I have been going through the posts up to this point, it seems to me that the arguement being made is that "Im paying for the game, I want to have access to EVERY ITEM IN THE GAME". This is absolutly absurd! If the game has just as much content at release as any other MMO rpg, then what is the harm in having some VANITY items only available to buy on the cash shop. Are players nowadays really THAT concieted that they believe that they have the right to every item that the company releases just for paying a set fee that everyone else pays? It amazes me that this is what it has come to.
If you have one of the best item sets in the game, and looking around, you see a player with a vanity item (wings, colored armor, etc) there is no reason why you should think, "Hey, Ive put less money into this game, I deserve that item as much as he does". The game will more than likely have items that are very difficult to obtain, so if you are one of those "I like to be different and have something very few players have" kind of person (myself included), then there will always be those kind of items to get. You just cant see players with items bought from the store and say "I deserve that", they payed for it, they deserve the item.
Please someone come up with a decently thought out arguement and reply to this post.
"Question everything, even the existence of a god"
Comments
This.
The sub is supposed to be paying for ongoing development of the game, which includes everything you'll see in the cash shop. By using it, you'll be spending your money on something that you've already paid for with your subscription. It's like paying a monthly fee for parking, then having to pay a daily premium to enter the lot.
How can you compare something that the government is responsable for, and which the three tiers of income get affected differently? Low and middle class get hits hard yes, but do high class? Doubt it since they're the ones donating and financing the campaigns of those govenrment candidates that help shape those laws.
If no one paid for anything in the CS's, you really don't think they'd go away? Having them in your fav game is really that hurtful to your gaming experience?
Not having healthcare because it's too expensive will cost you dearly if you're ever sick. What will not owning that blue panda that sings do for your gaming?
And besides, isn't that what voting is supposed to help change?
And unfortunatly, nowadays. The companies and corporations assume that this business model is methodically correct to use. And they assume that we have to pay such fees and just move on with our lives when we could voice our opinions directly to them and say that we don't agree with it.
But yeah, you can't really blame them for a system that no one says anything about.
I'm going to let my wallet do the talking on this one. I was going to play TSW but not with it having a sub fee and cash shop. They need to pick one or the other but not both and I'll come back.
My theme song.
And... you miss the point again.
Remember, insurance companies are privatized. The gvt is not responsible for them. So what you just said is moot and my point stands.
No I didn't, because I never said I was talking about the american healthcare system. My profile clearly states I'm from Canada, so your assumptions are moot, and MY point still stands. Not privatized here, and still absolutely necessary by law.
Still, the point of not thinking it's a good idea and knowing it is needed as opposed to something that isn't needed but still undesired still is an invalid comparison.
Yes, and the choice is to drive or not, and to have health care or not. That doesn't make it right. Its still robbery no matter how you dress it up. Just because they CAN charge this way, doesn't mean they should, or that we should just accept it without a word. I protest because I can and its the right thing to do. But its going to come to a point of "no choice". You either accept it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't take part. And that isn't right.
@GrumpyMel2
I'm afraid that I can't bring myself to agree with your take on this situation. I think it stems from a breakdown in what we view as "the whole package". If we were to use the parking, sitting at a table, drink of water and the food as the "whole package", and compare that to playing the game, buying items from vendors using in-game money, looting items from mobs as the "whole package" of a game, we almost immediately experience some serious deviations from the presented formula.
Comparing going to a restaurant to playing an MMO just doesn't sit well with me. When I go to a restaurant, I only pay for what I'm using or have the option to use, i.e.: the food that I eat, the beer that I drink, and the costs incurred in order to defray their overhead -- all unavoidable. If I don't want dessert, I don't pay for it. Similarly, in an MMO, if I don't want an extra-special, extra-exclusive Super-cute Chihuahua (fawn-colored) I don't pay for it.
I understand that you're arguing for a world in which the aforementioned Chihuahua is simply available to everyone at no additional cost, and I can see how that makes sense to some people. I'm fairly certain that the purpose served by these cash shops within the microcosm of P2P MMO's is to give subscribers the option to set themselves apart from everyone else, provided they're willing to shell out some extra cash. Blizzard did the same thing with the handful of cash shop stuff they've got available.
It's not much different from me being able to differentiate myself from the army of proles and plebs on my server by putting in the extra effort and accomplishing a difficult in-game task. The only difference is in how we go about it: I put in hours upon hours of gameplay in order to have a full set of bad ass armor, the other guy puts in a few dollars and has himself a Super-cute Chihuahua (fawn-colored). That I'm not able to burn a dozen hours of my time in order to acquire the pet (or even an item that I were actually amenable to having attached to my avatar) doesn't bother me. But since we're not arguing about whether or not cash shops give measurable advantages, but rather that they somehow deny us the ability to access the "whole package", I'll address this.
The answer? It is a money-making device intended to seperate people from their money, but it is an entirely optional one.
Also, the act of being nickel-and-dimed out in the real world is way more of a pain in the ass than it is while in a virtual world. The nickel and diming experience you describe in the dining experience involves stopping, pulling out my wallet, pulling out my money, putting it all away and and continuing on to the next step in the process. In the virtual world? One more click in a seemingly endless stream of clicks.
Sorry, I missed that. I just assumed you're American. I'm Canadian too but I've been living in the US for years. I'm starting to automatically assume most people are American, which used to annoy me when I was living in Canada and I should really stop that particular arrogance. I apologize.
The thing is, in the US, what I said is correct. And regardless, its still wrong to nickle and dime people to death. A great point was made. I'd rather pay a higher fee and have it all included, than a lower fee and be nickle and dimed. I want to enjoy the game, not worry about what the cost is.
Better yet, Neither.
This would be a great game for an advertisement based business model. It is set in the "normal" world, so ads for soft drinks, cars, heck even insurance would fit intot he landscape just fine as billboards, vending machines, even ads on tvs in you player housing.
You made that assertive claim that most gamers are kids so it is up to you to provide proof, not me. I simply was saying that according to that, they are in their 30s.
Knowing the path they have chosen they might just add that in on top of the other two. -_-
My theme song.
I was about to make a long post on my opinion on this topic, but the post above (by Haight) really made all the right points. This is not a big deal, from what I can tell it won't have any impact on PvP or raiding.
As an adult w/ a full-time job I don't mind paying for something if it can save me time grinding in game. I have a finite budget of gaming time, and that is more of a problem than a few $$ here and there.
--Chegg
That only shows that some companies are trying to make it the future. If people don't buy into it, it "obviously" WON'T be the wave of the future.
One of the biggest turn off's for me is a cash shop mixed with a p2p game. I wish the general gaming public would boycott cash shops in a p2p game.
What the heck are we paying a subscription for again?
Next thing you know... you will have to purchase the latest patch from the cash shop.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Your argument of right and wrong is valiant, even if short-sighted. Mmo's have exploded into mainstream a while back and now it's a money grab. We all know this, they are there to make money.
The quality of anything else out there is the same. Electronics, clothing, you name it. They are all there to make money, no matter if some think they shouldn't do it that way or not. Trends are what set prices and/or quality of said items.
You may be indignant of how the cotton dresses you liked are now made, but it's their right to try to make more money by maybe cutting a little on the stitching. It's their clothing, you have no say in it. No matter what you believe to have invested in it. If they happen to lose you as a customer, it's a learning experience they have to go through to see if it's more profitanle or not. If it is, then I'm sure the 'losses' will taken in good graces.
Entitlement does not equate righteousness.
I shudder to think the consequences of that. >_>''
Given the highly customizable nature of TSW’s characters and the fact that clothes are only a visual item, I think a clothing cash shop is fine to have in addition to a subscription fee. This business model allows for additional revenue while also allowing players to have access to unique looks they wouldn’t ordinarily have with the game.
I see many complaints a Cash Shop should not be in a subscription game at all. This statement is just too generic to make any sense to mindlessly throw it out over and over. If the items in the store are vanity only, then it is much different from those which offer an in game advantage.
Also, coupled many state if they pay a subscription, they should gain access to everything in the game. This is true only so far as the scope of what you have access to is the content developed under the budget provided by the subscription and initial purchase.
If additional content is developed, like vanity clothes, which is funded using the revenue from the sales of these virtual items in game, then it is being rather obstinate to demand you also have access to them. Your subscription free is not what is funding the project, so you have no rights to the items.
So the next complaint would be that there shouldn’t be anything in the game that my subscription doesn’t fund. This is a poor complaint and resonates from the mindset; if I cannot afford it then no one should have it.
The opposite is the complaint which asks to raise the subscription fee. This too is a poor complaint which doesn’t take into consideration those who want to play the game and could care less about vanity items. Those players shouldn’t be charged for such things they have no interest in.
The median ground is to have a basic subscription fee, which gives access to all parts of the game. Then offer to supply those who want more in the way of vanity items what they desire through additional fees. This separate cash shop will expand and grow or shrink and fail based on the revenue it produces alone and remain separate from the subscription fee.
And expecting quality along with not being robbed blind is NOT entitlement. Its about whats right. Taking advantage of people just to increase the size of your wallet is NOT right. If expecting to be treated with respect, even by companies, is entitlement, then I'm fine with that. Let me add that I'm willing to pay what something is worth, I am NOT willing to pay vastly more than that just because some greedy person thinks they should be able to get away with robbing me of my money. They might as well just be ambushing me on the street with a knife in their hand.
It's only being taken advantage of if the people buying these things are unhappy about their purchases. Most are very happy, because it seems this business model is working.
You personal animosity with these things are fine, but they are not wrong, since they can do anything they wish with their game. They paid for it, or borrowed from ivestors(who want a return pretty quick i might add), and did the marketing research to give them telltale signs as to whether or not it will profitable.
Only by you not buying, and to the same extent others as well, will they see it's not what the players want. It is wrong to YOU, it cannot be generalized if it makes money. They do not force anyone to pay for their items, nor does it have a core changing element of the game.
Wow is a subscription game with a cash shop so whats the difference. I can't see why so many are crying over this yet we hardly hear it from wow players willing to part for flying mounts and other crap.
If you don't like a cash shop then stay away from it, nobody is forcing you to part with your money.
Oh, so because its their game, I can do anything I want with a hotel room regardless of whether there are people in it and they paid for it for the night, right? They paid for the room for the night, but I can add eroneous charges because I work for the hotel, right? Sudden charges for pillows, or blankets. Or I can hold all the shampoo and coffee at the desk and make people pay $2 each to get one of them. Right?
Noooooo, thats not the way things work and you know it.
You can do what you want with your own house, but once you start affecting the public, things change. There are rules and laws preventing such things, and if I tried that kind of thing at my hotel, people would be livid. Because its wrong. Its taking advantage of them. Simple as that.
"Hey Bob, sales in the cash shop are not meeting projections. Got any idea's to improve it?"
"Well Sam I was thinking..... Why don't we make all the gear earned in the game look more suck-ass, and put the really cool looking stuff in the cash shop."
"That sounds fantstic Bob. By the way, did you hear what the sales number's were for that cool looking mount that Shirley & Dave spent a couple weeks on last month?"
"No Sam, what were they?"
"3.8 mil Bob"
"Gee Sam, ya gotta love it when people pay as much for a mount as they do for a game"
"Ya I know Bob, Dick sais there is a sucker born every minute."
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
True i can't back it up either but it is by nature more likely a kid would play a game than an adult with a full time job and possibly a family to take care of.You know this yourself.
It seems to me that the MMORPG community at large has gone awry. Its sad to me to see so many MMO players getting so wound up by this cashshop stuff.
As long as the items available to be bought on the cash shop are nothing more than vanity items, (I.E. different looks on items, character renames, character reskins/armor coloring, etc..) I dont see a problem with it. I want one sensible person to give me an arguement on why a cash shop selling vanity items only is a gamebreaking problem.
As I have been going through the posts up to this point, it seems to me that the arguement being made is that "Im paying for the game, I want to have access to EVERY ITEM IN THE GAME". This is absolutly absurd! If the game has just as much content at release as any other MMO rpg, then what is the harm in having some VANITY items only available to buy on the cash shop. Are players nowadays really THAT concieted that they believe that they have the right to every item that the company releases just for paying a set fee that everyone else pays? It amazes me that this is what it has come to.
If you have one of the best item sets in the game, and looking around, you see a player with a vanity item (wings, colored armor, etc) there is no reason why you should think, "Hey, Ive put less money into this game, I deserve that item as much as he does". The game will more than likely have items that are very difficult to obtain, so if you are one of those "I like to be different and have something very few players have" kind of person (myself included), then there will always be those kind of items to get. You just cant see players with items bought from the store and say "I deserve that", they payed for it, they deserve the item.
Please someone come up with a decently thought out arguement and reply to this post.
"Question everything, even the existence of a god"