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MMO Ennui
elistrange
Member Posts: 157
In a nutshell,
I see posts after posts of people complaining about how they don't like any of the MMOs out there...that they are tired of this and tired of that. Well, perhaps you have grown up and out of MMOs. I mean, I have been playing video games since the original Atari, and I even had an Atari computer with Jump. I have played Zork and all sorts of other games.And then I found MMOs, which I really truly enjoy.
Presently, I play EVE Online. However, I usually rotate from EVE Online, Champions, and Pirates of Burning Sea. I have been a hardcore gamer, but it was taking away from IRL, and now I just play for fun. I am excited about a few games coming out, and I think that the genre is making some great progress.
I see this as an identity issue. People see themselves as gamers, but they have grown out of it or got tired of it, and they just haven't faced the facts that they are no longer a gamer. And instead of doing a little introspection they take all this misguided rage and started blaming MMOs.
If you have been playing for twenty years...you are at least 30 or so, and life is not the same when you were 18. The MMO world was fresh and new and for a select target market. I still remember how awesome I felt when I realized that the avatars that were running around with me were actually people. How I sweated and nearly had a heart attack when I helped my party defeat a dungeon, and how bleary eyed and tired I was from lack of sleep because I had been playing for tweleve hours. Those days are no longer with us.
We are no in an age of fast leveling and flashy gear. The extreme dedication necessary is no longer required to reach the heights of the MMO world. The Golden Age has passed. I believe this is something we need to understand.
Currently Play: ?
Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE
Comments
No, the games are worse now. Why not just play the older, better games then? There are multiple, legitimate answers to that question. Many of us have played the older, better games to the point of saturation. Or some people can't stand older graphics. Or some people don't want to play on illegal shards of games taken offline by the developer. We need something both new and better, not just new.
It isn't us. It's them.
The market is changing. MMOs have become serious money makers. I do not think that you will find what you are looking for in a mainstream game. I think Secret World, SWTOR, and GWII will not satisfy a lot of these hardcore gamers that always complain, they are trying to relive something or connect with something that they can no longer get back.
Currently Play: ?
Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE
No, the games aren't worse now, they're simply different. Far too many people are living in the past, wanting exactly the same kinds of games that were out there a decade or more ago, but the world moves on and apparently, it's moved on without them. Such is life, no point in whining about it constantly.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Sorry that is just simply not the case. Have you played AoC at release? FFXIV? Are you going to try and argue that the quality of these games was up to par? I stay away from WoW and Rift because I know I don't like that kind of game. But aside from those you can't deffend the lack of quality in the MMO market for the last couple years.
My theme song.
Sorry but that just isn't the case. Were those bad releases? yes, however they were hands down in better shape than many other releases.. EQ, SWG... were just horrible, buggy, broken, lag filled peices of crap. EQ did get better, SWG never did.
Bad games will always get released, good games will too. The release of games today is far far better than the release of games of 10 years ago. You can't defend the lack of quality in the MMO market from 10 years ago.
Venge
Yup, but Anarchy Online had one of the worst launches in history, long before AoC. There are always bad launches, unfinished, buggy games, it's happened back as far as MMOs have existed. You only recognize it because now, there are many, many more games coming out and thus, more bad launches numerically, plus the fact that more recent bad launches are fresher in your memory and you tend to forget how awful some of the older games were when they came out.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
"Better" is a subjective term in this case (unless going by player/profit data to measure how "good" a game is) so it actually is you. Not them.
You don't understand this conversation if you really think you just made some kind of a point. Whether the word "better" in my sentence was used subjectively doesn't affect my seceond paragraph you quoted.
This whole conversation is subjective opinion. I think mmorpg's are of much lower quality now than the big titles from long ago. I think gaming developers are making games that are worse. I think they could make games that I like, and that players such as myself like, but they choose not to for various reasons. My conclusion that games are worse now and that it is the gaming company's fault can only be based on subjective opinion. None of that at all leads to the conclusion that "it is me."
Please explain in great detail the logic behind your statement that a subjective use of the word "better" equals that the problem is me as opposed to the problem being the crappy games developers are developing. I cannot see how you made that jump in logic.
Subjectively, I think you're wrong. I've played MMOs since god-awful Meridian59, and no, they certainly haven't gotten worse. Many of them have gotten much better, some only got a little better, a few didn't really improve at all.
Thank you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The MMOs now are dumbed down quest rails, with no real depth/worlds for the most part.
You can see the effort/profit, verse investment decisions loud and clear in most of them.
Games are getting away from unique starting areas for races, due to that being time consuming and expensivet to develop and do right.
Crafting is often incomplete and/or useless/buggy.
Could go on and on, but if someone can't see that most the studios/investors are too afraid to try/do anything innovative for the most part, then no post will help them see it.
Personally, I think that a lot of the newer MMOs are "better" than the older, EQ-style MMOs that so many people are nostalgic about. I think the reduced grind and better graphics make up for a lot. That being said, I think that we have reached a tipping point where a lot of games just feel really similar and there is no inherent challenge in them - that is what's causing my ennui.
I wish for something new and challenging, and by that I don't just mean more raids and a new skin on a game that's been done before. I want a world I can feel lost in (like EVE) and a feeling that my actions can actually make a difference (like the first time I did an event with phasing in WoW, then it was overdone and slightly rubbish).
I'm 30% Rock, 10% Roll, 50% Nerd and 10% Troll.
Axis of Awesome - Moderately Rock and Roll
Simply matter of perspective.
They are diffrent ,but diffrentiation went wrong way for my tastes.
Closed small worlds, simlistic and pointless craffting, content driven instead of system driven, linear , easier and more convenient, focused on end-game threadmill.
All of those is a fact.
This also make them diffrent.
In my eyes worse.
So I will continue to say that they are worse.
No I am not burned , I still do enjoy older single player games I havent played yet (like Arcanum which I discovered recently) and I don't enjoy 95% of new games.
Does that mean that I am burned on gaming overall? No, just most of new games don't suit my tastes thus they are worse.
Yes better and worse are subjective definitions.
Can't these games be different in the sense that, to some people, they are worse now.
I think that yeah they are different. Yeah this is subjective opinion. And yeah it's my subjective opinion that most of the mmorpg's made today are different in the sense that they are worse than the greats of the past. It's perfectly fine to answer the question, "How are they different now?"
Describing the games as "different" isn't mutually exclusive from being able to describe the games as better or worse. The word different is opinion neutral. "Better" or "worse" is usually not opinion neutral.
The closed worlds, and the feeling of being limited because the world is so small is a big problem for me, but how much of it is because travel is so much more convenient.? The worlds aren't smaller, travel is faster, and then games lose their epic feel. I also hate the end-game treadmill where everything is based on repetition and gear.
I'm 30% Rock, 10% Roll, 50% Nerd and 10% Troll.
Axis of Awesome - Moderately Rock and Roll
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
While growing past a gaming phase could be an element which affects certain people's opinion on the gaming market i doubt that counts for everyone who thinks the market's quality has gone down the drain. I personally think the main issue is innovation. The first games you play of a certain genre will seem as an innovation bomb, everything is new , it rocks your world. And the more you play the more certain mechanics/content/blabla will seem "old". I think it's undoubtable that if many of the bitter "vets" would just start playing MMO's they would actually like the current MMO's because they will seem so "fresh" but that doesn't change the fact that the lack of innovation or improvement to keep said bitter vets happy is actually evidence the market isn't doing so well.
Now off course the MMO market did take some wrong turns on certain aspects but i think overall current MMO's aren't so bad. It's just that for people who played MMO's for long the very little innovation combined with some wrong turns just doesn't make it interesting anymore.
Personally i belong to that group, i once enjoyed MMO's like Runescape or WoW but i grew tired of them and for me MMORPG's which are barely innovative compared to said games i grew tired of obviously just don't seem worth my time and money.
On top of that an other big issue is that MMO's, unlike "traditional" games, are more time and money consuming, meaning they have to actually be more innovative than traditional games. Heck when new C&C's were released, there was barely any innovation but i still got excited every time, that's because i spent less time and money on em and they did there job at being worth my bucks and keeping me entertained for the time i played it. Which is something most MMO's fail at.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
"No, the games aren't worse now, they're simply different."
No that's part of the problem, they're -NOT- different!
They're so much of the same d@mn thing... Endless, boring copies of freakin WoW. Everything is Wow-ified....
They're different from what came before WoW, which is what everyone bitches about. But those games that came before WoW, like it or not, were miserable failures compared to WoW, they were not as financially successful nor did they draw the wide audience that WoW drew. Like it or not, WoW set the standard for what came after, not UO or EQ or DAOC.
Everything is WoW-ified because WoW made Blizzard a shitload of money and every developer wants a cut of that pie. Welcome to reality.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
LOL this is a very funny comment...
First off WOW wasnt successful because its MMO was so great. Lets truly face the facts here why WOW was so successful. WARCRAFT RTS... nothing else. Warcraft is the most popular RTS worldwide. There are even TV shows in CHINA just for strategies on Warcraft.
WOW has old cartoony graphics for the super old computers so they can get the so called numbers in countries like CHINA. The9 before WOW changed companies in CHINA stated publicly that 5 million users were from China alone.
Now most games of the old were mainly North America and some of Europe. Asia was never included in those older games.
the games before werent failures. Any game that reached 200-300k were considered successes.
some of you talked about how the older games sucked compared to now... Well lets discuss what you get from the "older games" as you do now.
I will compare Asherons Call to the so called better "new games"
in the 11 years of Asherons Call there was ONLY 1 EXPANSION...
how many do the new games pump out? almost 1-2 years you will see a new expansion out = that means AC(Asherons Call) gave TONS AND TONS of stuff for FREE... your 12 dollars a month paid for entertainment and the money was used for more content. Now adays they seek to suck up as much money from you for far less content.
back then the monthly sub was $9.99 nowadays $15... this is understandable with inflation. BUT.. with the increase in population for MMOs... you wonder why it still stays the same and hasnt gone down... greedy greedy...
AC had constant live events while modern games have either automated stuff or just a plain dead world with nothing happening to it.... this is a big downer. WHere does all that sub money go? millions of SUBS and lots more money and most modern MMOs have dead worlds. what is the 15 dollars actually going for?
new quests that are put into game constantly for AC while modern games want you to give them more money to have more content added in... This is by far not acceptable. They are receiving MORE money then those older companies and the older games did more stuff for you.
AC quests were fun where modern games quests are mostly mindless and numbing...AC quests were multipart and more thought out. it was more involved then some of the quests of today. Go here kill that ugly worm and come back and i will reward you. LOL this is the biggest, LAZIEST, work i have ever seen. And whats funny, is all the "NEW GAMERS" that WOW brought in dont know any better.
I cant see how some say that the older games are worse. You got more for your buck then you do today. And hell you paid less back then. Most of these companies are now inventing ways to suck more money out of you by doing Expansion packs. Downloadable content... Cash shops... etc etc...
its gotten far worse today then it was in the past.
Yet any other game that WoW haven't really got bigger success than UO,EQ or DAOC. Especially if you count that overall mmorg players count rise dramatically.
AoC failed , Warhammer Online even more. Lotro was quite succesful but not more than f.e. Everquest.
STO totally failed. FE as well. FXIV also failed. Everquest II is doing relatively alright but it did not had greater success than Everquest I or Ultima Online.
Then where are those all games that had so great success with copying WoW idea of mmorpg?
Well Rift is doing alright ,but it is still very fresh game released 6 months ago, and it was released when WoW started to bleeding subs for first time. Much of it's success can be contributed to inredibly good support ,polish and very fast content release.
Actually other games that you could call exceptionaly sucessful ,were if you count them worldwide. Aion and LineAge ,because they had a load of customers in Asia , relatively loyal and steady customer base in west.
Not to mention that they are quite diffrent from WoW.
just wanted to comment on this one part here...
you think just maybe... that the whole fast leveling flashy gear was to take the FPS standard game and shove it into the MMO genre to grab and run with your money?
see FPS games come out with a new game every year or so...
while MMOs usually do multiple years...
i see a lot of these CRAPPY MMOs pop up because they want that 50-60 dollar money grab and dont mind you quitting because they made their money from release. then usually keep it running with their hardcore fans.
yes a lot do copy WOWs basic theme park game...
but thats just it.. theme park MMOs are meant for you to reach the end then reach into that wallet and pay for more.
older games didnt do that... they expected you to LIVE in the world and enjoy while not reaching into that wallet.. they expected that monthly sub to pay for your entertainment.
this is not enough for the modern mentality of MMO companies.. they not only want that sub money they want MORE... why?
because so many are willing to give it. Once the fanbase smartens up and realizes this and stops giving for garbage... that will be the day when the companies will start to realize well gee maybe we should pump out quality now.
Just wanted to comment on this part- what makes you think we can ever get to this point?
Maybe i'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think for some people you are right. Ennui perfectly describes how I feel about all the MMOs that come out. I think this and a mix of other things are contributing to people's unsatisfactory MMO experiences of late.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath