At the risk of incurring everyone's wrath (and turning into a big crunchy carrot for Darth Pony to flash-fry and chomp on),
^_^
Nom nom karrots ...
the only reson you need BiS gear is if you're raiding. I think raiders depending on crafters and vice-versa is a pretty fair system.
I just don't grok the notion of needing BiS stuffs if you're not gonna raid with them. Is it just about looking shiny? Having that +10% and the epic shoulderpads of epicness (and eye-poking-out-ness) to run around in PvE? Doing what? Flashpoints on hard mode? Dailies?
Well, there's always flaunting?
Also define "needing" in this case: is it "can't complete without" or "aiming to be the most effective", which also goes for other, open world and flashpoint content. You can't blame a mainly flashpointer to want to be able to get the most out of his character can you? Goes for any playstyle I suppose.
There's already another (correct me if I'm wrong) PvP-centric BiS set which is 10% better for PvP at endgame, right? Should crafters be able to make that set without ever setting foot in a warzone or engaging in PvP in the open world? Well, no, because they would have no need of it (or interest in it), right? So why does it work the other way around when it comes to PvE gear?
This is a great point. Every playstyle needs enticing carrots in that sense. If the rewards aren't up to par with the effort involved, people would never raid, for example.
Yet I never oposed raids yielding the best pve gear, nor do I want crafters being able to make the very best pvp gear. What I object to is raids ALSO being the main source of second best, top tier crafted gear as well! As I see crafting as a separate gameplay choice. Tying it into raiding is shoehorning a lot of people into stuff they don't want to do.
As a crafter I would be more than happy to make the second best gear in the game, but for the love of god, don't force me to raid to be able to make some. I am willing to work and grind my ass off and spend a lot of time and resources on it, but I just want an independent source for those top level crafting components and recipe's.
I'm not a raider so this isn't about wanting to keep the best gear for raiders, it's probably all some lack of understanding on my part, and possibly also why I've never been interested in the gear treadmill.
Same here, I couldn't bare to do the same, instanced content again and again. I'd rather be outside in the open world, alone or in small groups: world pew pewing, exploring, harvesting to fuel the crafting fires, running away from fights I can't win and being ganked (as well as returning the favor) whenever I possibly can
Yet I want that solo / small group / open world playstyle to be a viable choice rather than all the endgame gear goodness having a source in instanced content, whether that's pve or pvp.
I'd like to be able to craft very good gear without having to go to dungeons. I'm fine if it takes a long time and is slow and "hard" to do as long as there is the possibility. I dont like features being unconditionally "boxed" into certain themes like raiding, pvp, etc. I'm not asking "welfare" anything, just give possibility for more ways to play the game, it does not have to be fast and easy to do, just allow people to be part of greater community who like to craft but not neccesarily raid often (or if they cant).
Best way to do that IMO is ask to join a guild as a dedicated crafter. See if they can help get the material you need, then you just concentrate on crafting. No need to run an operation, just have others do it for you. Ofc this is all dependent on BoP. I hope they are smart enough to not make harvesting material BoP.
Another way would be to allow multiple crafted items be able to be combined with a lot of time to create a single operation level material. Through deconstrution of high level crafted items. Or through missions by your companions. Or something as simple as 50 of 'x' gives you operation level 'y'. So to make the gear, it would take weeks if not months to make the same stuff. But you could get there eventually. Then to make more, it would take the same amount of time.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Brah..It's a themepark MMO the entire point of crafting in these is starting gear and the last tier is never better then end game gear. if this was a sandbox then crafting would be the focus but in TOR it's like Wow in the sense the best gear is end game.
There is only a box in SWTOR no sand.
Then they shouldn't advertise their crafted gear as being viable.
Why not? Crafting gear is viable. If you want the best gear, you need to do the heroic version of the operation. Crafting will never compete with the heroic gear.
But crafting gear is totally viable to work towards heroic gear.
Personally I think BiS gear should be obtained by and focus on each content type.
BiS raiding gear should be obatined through raiding. It should have stats/bonuses that improve raiding, like raid group buffs/boosts for example, or maybe resists needed for raid encounters.
BiS solo/group gear should be obtained by solo or smaller group pve content, and focus more on the individual armor stats/bonuses.
BiS pvp gear, you guessed it, obtained through pvp and focusing on stats viable in pvp.
Crafting should be a middle ground and support all aspects of gameplay. You would be able to craft OK sets for all of the above but not BiS, but have certain slot(s) where crafting provided BiS for each type. Maybe even certain items only obtainable through crafting. Besides that, there's other things than just gear that crafting should provide.
Personally I think BiS gear should be obtained by and focus on each content type.
BiS raiding gear should be obatined through raiding. It should have stats/bonuses that improve raiding, like raid group buffs/boosts for example, or maybe resists needed for raid encounters.
Devs have said this is the case. From PAX, they are currently working on drops and gear from operations via normal and hard modes. Work in progress.
BiS solo/group gear should be obtained by solo or smaller group pve content, and focus more on the individual armor stats/bonuses.
Not know yet, but questing will give you good gear and flashpoints will give you bottom line operation level gear. I would guess that solo gear will be more about your companion than your own gear. The stronger your companion is, the better you will be at solo/ small group.
BiS pvp gear, you guessed it, obtained through pvp and focusing on stats viable in pvp.
This is how it will be. The PvP gear is 10% better than operation gear for PvP.
Crafting should be a middle ground and support all aspects of gameplay. You would be able to craft OK sets for all of the above but not BiS, but have certain slot(s) where crafting provided BiS for each type. Maybe even certain items only obtainable through crafting. Besides that, there's other things than just gear that crafting should provide.
The devs have said that crafted gear will have some BiS items for everyone. We don't know what they will be or if operations are required for those few BiS items. I agree that the best consumables or hypos/stems should be through crafting.
imho.
It looks like what you want will be in the game as far as we have seen so far. The question is the second best crafted gear coming from operation material. I say yes for operation level PvE gear. No for solo/small group gear. But companions will come into play with solo/small group. Companion gear will end up leveling the playing field for open world PvE content.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
This is a great point. Every playstyle needs enticing carrots in that sense. If the rewards aren't up to par with the effort involved, people would never raid, for example.
Yet I never oposed raids yielding the best pve gear, nor do I want crafters being able to make the very best pvp gear. What I object to is raids ALSO being the main source of second best, top tier crafted gear as well! As I see crafting as a separate gameplay choice. Tying it into raiding is shoehorning a lot of people into stuff they don't want to do.
As a crafter I would be more than happy to make the second best gear in the game, but for the love of god, don't force me to raid to be able to make some. I am willing to work and grind my ass off and spend a lot of time and resources on it, but I just want an independent source for those top level crafting components and recipe's.
*puts away scissors of snippage*
I really hope that the system works the way I assume it will, schematics and crafting mats that drop in operations will not be BoP, therefore, your raider who cba crafting passes both on to the crafter who doesn't like raiding and the crafter makes the item for them, and gets to keep the schematic and thus have more raiders coming to them with more mats and schematics to make more nice gear. Crafter never has to step foot in an Op and raider never has to level up a crafting prof. I'm hoping the set-up is that symbiotic.
That's what I meant by a mutually dependant relationship between raiders and crafters. I assume it's the case because I recall hearing something somewhere about the best crafters being sought after - how that would happen without that inbuilt inter-dependency I cannot fathom.
This is a great point. Every playstyle needs enticing carrots in that sense. If the rewards aren't up to par with the effort involved, people would never raid, for example.
Yet I never oposed raids yielding the best pve gear, nor do I want crafters being able to make the very best pvp gear. What I object to is raids ALSO being the main source of second best, top tier crafted gear as well! As I see crafting as a separate gameplay choice. Tying it into raiding is shoehorning a lot of people into stuff they don't want to do.
As a crafter I would be more than happy to make the second best gear in the game, but for the love of god, don't force me to raid to be able to make some. I am willing to work and grind my ass off and spend a lot of time and resources on it, but I just want an independent source for those top level crafting components and recipe's.
*puts away scissors of snippage*
I really hope that the system works the way I assume it will, schematics and crafting mats that drop in operations will not be BoP, therefore, your raider who cba crafting passes both on to the crafter who doesn't like raiding and the crafter makes the item for them, and gets to keep the schematic and thus have more raiders coming to them with more mats and schematics to make more nice gear. Crafter never has to step foot in an Op and raider never has to level up a crafting prof. I'm hoping the set-up is that symbiotic.
That's what I meant by a mutually dependant relationship between raiders and crafters. I assume it's the case because I recall hearing something somewhere about the best crafters being sought after - how that would happen without that inbuilt inter-dependency I cannot fathom.
Would that kind of system be good enough?
Well, that would be the "leftovers" scenario and you are painting it very rose colored I'm afraid:
In a group of, say, 20 raiders, there are bound to be some active crafters too. Even if there weren't any, most of the best stuff would be put to use for guild purposes (get all those new members in second best gear, etc), and only when those needs are satisfied will any of it trickle through to the AH for very steep prices. This was exactly how things worked in WOW and not to my liking at all in fact.
The "no BoP" schematics and components, is that a confirmed fact or an assumption? Would be curious to read about that.
I'm fearing for certain mechanics like BoP to be honest: the "best crafters being sought after" which they did indeed speak about, would imply that there are mechanics in place to severly limit the supply of certain recipe's. Whether that is through insane droprates or BoP, or a combination, I don't know.
There is sadly no real interdependancy if both the best recipes and the best components have the same source: operations.
So I really hope that open world- and flashpoint sources will play an important part too.
Oh geez, another game where the wall street types(chinese gold farmers) will run up the prices of everything on the AH and Bioware will play god with crazy drop rates.......Oh, joy. How about some intense skill based crafting that is dependent on resource manipulation and ingenuity instead of having to raid Boss X a hundred times to get one "widget of the gods" that only drops every other thursday when two full moons are present in that month.
The issue is very cut and dry. I see people tying themselve in knots of invalid logic supported by incomplete proofs to get around it.
The question is: Why is it EXCLUSIVE to operations? Why don't other things drop similar stuff as well given a similar investment of time and/or skill?
Yes ... and then we see disgusting state of things. Its all about the eclusivity, the pandering to the "elites". Not about an economy, not about a world, not about even making your normal gameplay elements good.
Its a casino meant to pander to power raiding addicts.
I'll tell you exactly what I think of this issue. I was gonna play SWTOR although probably not more than 2 or 3 months.
When I heard this I decided not to buy it at all.
Yeah cause doing the same set of dungeons dozens of times in hope of boss X to drop the piece of gear you need is not enough you have to be lucky again and hope nobdody else in your group needs it too. Who the hell think this is fun ? Devs sometimes talk about their game like it's a 2nd job. When i play a MMO i play to have fun not to feel i'm working a 2nd job.
This kind of design logic just baffles me. They want crafting to be important, so they make the top tier crafting gear (2nd to top tier) have to be achieved from the same sorce as the top tier gear. Anyone else see the flaw in this?
In order for that type of design to work, the top tier crafting gear would have to basically be pointless. As the operations / raids would need to be easy enough for a player to do them without the best crafting gear. After all, if they were that beneficial, then few people would be able to do operations / raids, because they would need to complete them in order to get the gear meant for that dungeon? Seems rather circular doesn't it? Furthermore, since we can assume that they would have to make dungeons easy enough to be completed without craft gear, why wouldn't players just simply go straight for the best loot?
This reminds me an awful lot of rift, in which the 'best' crafting recipes were from the top tier dungeons, but noone really gave a $#!t because you could get the actual gear just as easily. This just seems like very poorly thought out PvE mechanics.
what if the appearance tab ability is tied into crafting? meaning that the more skilled crafters are the more gear variety (aestetics wise) is opened to them which also includes finding recipes to open up more gear variety options.
what if the appearance tab ability is tied into crafting? meaning that the more skilled crafters are the more gear variety (aestetics wise) is opened to them which also includes finding recipes to open up more gear variety options.
how would you feel about that?
Sounds awesome. I'd really like that. Also slight variations in item stats; depending on chance and skill would be great.
Yeah cause doing the same set of dungeons dozens of times in hope of boss X to drop the piece of gear you need is not enough you have to be lucky again and hope nobdody else in your group needs it too. Who the hell think this is fun ? Devs sometimes talk about their game like it's a 2nd job. When i play a MMO i play to have fun not to feel i'm working a 2nd job.
Yeah, right... so, what's your brilliant solution for after the first few hundreds of hours of gameplay, that won't require repetitive activities and that's PvE related?
Because those oldschool MMO's sure as hell had their own grinds as endgame, and crafting in sandbox games sure did feel like a 2nd job sometimes.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
what if the appearance tab ability is tied into crafting? meaning that the more skilled crafters are the more gear variety (aestetics wise) is opened to them which also includes finding recipes to open up more gear variety options.
how would you feel about that?
Sounds awesome. I'd really like that. Also slight variations in item stats; depending on chance and skill would be great.
... but independent from raiding.
Agree on both accounts. I think tying crafting to cosmetics is a MUCH better way of increasing crafting impotance than tying it to raiding.
The only other thing that might be nice is if you didn't get actual items from raids, but rather components, and needed a crafter to combine them into something useful.
Does it really matter anymore? The ease of getting PVE gear nowadays why not just give crafters the ability to make the same gear you would get when raiding... Though I don't plan on getting this game so really doesn't matter to me what they do.
See my understanding of what id read was that u coudl make raid quality gear as a crafter but u needed to get those mats from operations much like in wow u can make gear that is as good as raid gear with stuff u get from raids.
See i belive u can make the gear that gets u into raids with mats found in the world and that the mats u get from operations can be used for operations level gear. or the same quality gear u get from operations but that was my understanding.
At first I was kind of thrown off by this, however after reading these two posts, they make a whole heck of a lot of sense.
Taken from the link in the OP.
"That's when you create a business relationship with Raiders to where they supply the Resources and you make the Item"
"Because if they allowed crafters to craft the best items without having to do something that requires a challenge, we would have free epics everywhere. Crafting isn't hard."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
One thing not talked about much and not understood that well is the Mod system. With gear having mod slots, this opens up a different way to craft. We don't know if a crafter will have to set these mods or if they just have to make them. Could be that these mods drop and can be put into normal items to make them blues or even purples.
So it could be that mods become more important than the actual gear produced or dropped. That could mean that crafters can craft top gear that is just missing top mods. The mods could be what drops in operations. Crafters could still sell top items, but they would not be top items without the top level mods. That would mean the best crafted gear would be operation level gear once the mod is added. So you can sell these to players who have the mods or buy the mods and add them yourself. Just another wrinkle to add into it.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
At first I was kind of thrown off by this, however after reading these two posts, they make a whole heck of a lot of sense.
Taken from the link in the OP.
"That's when you create a business relationship with Raiders to where they supply the Resources and you make the Item"
"Because if they allowed crafters to craft the best items without having to do something that requires a challenge, we would have free epics everywhere. Crafting isn't hard."
That'll be good IF they are only talking about ingredients, and not recipies. If you have to raid to get the recipes, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They tried that in rift, and crafting is basically almost worthless.
Originally posted by aesperus Originally posted by Distopia At first I was kind of thrown off by this, however after reading these two posts, they make a whole heck of a lot of sense. Taken from the link in the OP. "That's when you create a business relationship with Raiders to where they supply the Resources and you make the Item" "Because if they allowed crafters to craft the best items without having to do something that requires a challenge, we would have free epics everywhere. Crafting isn't hard."
That'll be good IF they are only talking about ingredients, and not recipies. If you have to raid to get the recipes, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They tried that in rift, and crafting is basically almost worthless. Im with this sentiment. If you have to raid for recipes, they better drop in normal 8 man modes. If the absolute best recipes drop in 16 man hard modes, that would suck ass. Best case scenario is that raids drop tradeable items that augment existing recipes. That would encourage healthy trade between the crafting and raiding communities. Worst case scenario would be raiding for recipes. I could accept that if all the recipes could be obtained through the 8 man normal modes.
I have a serious distaste for linking raiding and crafting. No crafter should be forced to raid in order to make the best gear available to them(although I don't think it should be the best in game). If that means crafters need to collect ridiculous amounts of materials outside of raids to keep the "amount of effort to power ratio" balanced, then so be it. But they should never be dependent on raiding drops.
Crafting and adventuring shouldn't really mix at all. I hate how WoW gives certain stat bonuses for maxing out professions, thus forcing players to endure an aspect of gameplay they may not enjoy just to get a stat bonus, so by no means do I support crafting drops from raid bosses. I may even go so far as to say that I should be able to increase my skills as a crafting totally independant of my skills as an adventurer.
I will say; however, that I really don't think crafters should be able to craft the best gear (at least in a game like SW:TOR). In doing so, it really trivializes a hefty portion of actual game content and makes it all too easy for a players to simply buy gold for real life money to be able to afford crafted items. In a more sandbox oriented game where the appeal is player interaction rather than in-game content (seeing as sandboxes certainly have little in the way of actual game content that keeps players subscribed), I would have less of an issue with this.
Comments
My brand new bloggity blog.
Best way to do that IMO is ask to join a guild as a dedicated crafter. See if they can help get the material you need, then you just concentrate on crafting. No need to run an operation, just have others do it for you. Ofc this is all dependent on BoP. I hope they are smart enough to not make harvesting material BoP.
Another way would be to allow multiple crafted items be able to be combined with a lot of time to create a single operation level material. Through deconstrution of high level crafted items. Or through missions by your companions. Or something as simple as 50 of 'x' gives you operation level 'y'. So to make the gear, it would take weeks if not months to make the same stuff. But you could get there eventually. Then to make more, it would take the same amount of time.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Why not? Crafting gear is viable. If you want the best gear, you need to do the heroic version of the operation. Crafting will never compete with the heroic gear.
But crafting gear is totally viable to work towards heroic gear.
Stop getting panties in a bunch.
Personally I think BiS gear should be obtained by and focus on each content type.
BiS raiding gear should be obatined through raiding. It should have stats/bonuses that improve raiding, like raid group buffs/boosts for example, or maybe resists needed for raid encounters.
BiS solo/group gear should be obtained by solo or smaller group pve content, and focus more on the individual armor stats/bonuses.
BiS pvp gear, you guessed it, obtained through pvp and focusing on stats viable in pvp.
Crafting should be a middle ground and support all aspects of gameplay. You would be able to craft OK sets for all of the above but not BiS, but have certain slot(s) where crafting provided BiS for each type. Maybe even certain items only obtainable through crafting. Besides that, there's other things than just gear that crafting should provide.
imho.
It looks like what you want will be in the game as far as we have seen so far. The question is the second best crafted gear coming from operation material. I say yes for operation level PvE gear. No for solo/small group gear. But companions will come into play with solo/small group. Companion gear will end up leveling the playing field for open world PvE content.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
*puts away scissors of snippage*
I really hope that the system works the way I assume it will, schematics and crafting mats that drop in operations will not be BoP, therefore, your raider who cba crafting passes both on to the crafter who doesn't like raiding and the crafter makes the item for them, and gets to keep the schematic and thus have more raiders coming to them with more mats and schematics to make more nice gear. Crafter never has to step foot in an Op and raider never has to level up a crafting prof. I'm hoping the set-up is that symbiotic.
That's what I meant by a mutually dependant relationship between raiders and crafters. I assume it's the case because I recall hearing something somewhere about the best crafters being sought after - how that would happen without that inbuilt inter-dependency I cannot fathom.
Would that kind of system be good enough?
Well, that would be the "leftovers" scenario and you are painting it very rose colored I'm afraid:
In a group of, say, 20 raiders, there are bound to be some active crafters too. Even if there weren't any, most of the best stuff would be put to use for guild purposes (get all those new members in second best gear, etc), and only when those needs are satisfied will any of it trickle through to the AH for very steep prices. This was exactly how things worked in WOW and not to my liking at all in fact.
The "no BoP" schematics and components, is that a confirmed fact or an assumption? Would be curious to read about that.
I'm fearing for certain mechanics like BoP to be honest: the "best crafters being sought after" which they did indeed speak about, would imply that there are mechanics in place to severly limit the supply of certain recipe's. Whether that is through insane droprates or BoP, or a combination, I don't know.
There is sadly no real interdependancy if both the best recipes and the best components have the same source: operations.
So I really hope that open world- and flashpoint sources will play an important part too.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Oh geez, another game where the wall street types(chinese gold farmers) will run up the prices of everything on the AH and Bioware will play god with crazy drop rates.......Oh, joy. How about some intense skill based crafting that is dependent on resource manipulation and ingenuity instead of having to raid Boss X a hundred times to get one "widget of the gods" that only drops every other thursday when two full moons are present in that month.
I'm glad to see we want our crafting communities back.
My theme song.
I'll tell you exactly what I think of this issue. I was gonna play SWTOR although probably not more than 2 or 3 months.
When I heard this I decided not to buy it at all.
The issue is very cut and dry. I see people tying themselve in knots of invalid logic supported by incomplete proofs to get around it.
The question is: Why is it EXCLUSIVE to operations? Why don't other things drop similar stuff as well given a similar investment of time and/or skill?
Yes ... and then we see disgusting state of things. Its all about the eclusivity, the pandering to the "elites". Not about an economy, not about a world, not about even making your normal gameplay elements good.
Its a casino meant to pander to power raiding addicts.
Yeah cause doing the same set of dungeons dozens of times in hope of boss X to drop the piece of gear you need is not enough you have to be lucky again and hope nobdody else in your group needs it too. Who the hell think this is fun ? Devs sometimes talk about their game like it's a 2nd job. When i play a MMO i play to have fun not to feel i'm working a 2nd job.
This kind of design logic just baffles me. They want crafting to be important, so they make the top tier crafting gear (2nd to top tier) have to be achieved from the same sorce as the top tier gear. Anyone else see the flaw in this?
In order for that type of design to work, the top tier crafting gear would have to basically be pointless. As the operations / raids would need to be easy enough for a player to do them without the best crafting gear. After all, if they were that beneficial, then few people would be able to do operations / raids, because they would need to complete them in order to get the gear meant for that dungeon? Seems rather circular doesn't it? Furthermore, since we can assume that they would have to make dungeons easy enough to be completed without craft gear, why wouldn't players just simply go straight for the best loot?
This reminds me an awful lot of rift, in which the 'best' crafting recipes were from the top tier dungeons, but noone really gave a $#!t because you could get the actual gear just as easily. This just seems like very poorly thought out PvE mechanics.
like to hear everyone's input on this:
what if the appearance tab ability is tied into crafting? meaning that the more skilled crafters are the more gear variety (aestetics wise) is opened to them which also includes finding recipes to open up more gear variety options.
how would you feel about that?
Sounds awesome. I'd really like that. Also slight variations in item stats; depending on chance and skill would be great.
... but independent from raiding.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Yeah, right... so, what's your brilliant solution for after the first few hundreds of hours of gameplay, that won't require repetitive activities and that's PvE related?
Because those oldschool MMO's sure as hell had their own grinds as endgame, and crafting in sandbox games sure did feel like a 2nd job sometimes.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Agree on both accounts. I think tying crafting to cosmetics is a MUCH better way of increasing crafting impotance than tying it to raiding.
The only other thing that might be nice is if you didn't get actual items from raids, but rather components, and needed a crafter to combine them into something useful.
Does it really matter anymore? The ease of getting PVE gear nowadays why not just give crafters the ability to make the same gear you would get when raiding... Though I don't plan on getting this game so really doesn't matter to me what they do.
See my understanding of what id read was that u coudl make raid quality gear as a crafter but u needed to get those mats from operations much like in wow u can make gear that is as good as raid gear with stuff u get from raids.
See i belive u can make the gear that gets u into raids with mats found in the world and that the mats u get from operations can be used for operations level gear. or the same quality gear u get from operations but that was my understanding.
At first I was kind of thrown off by this, however after reading these two posts, they make a whole heck of a lot of sense.
Taken from the link in the OP.
"That's when you create a business relationship with Raiders to where they supply the Resources and you make the Item"
"Because if they allowed crafters to craft the best items without having to do something that requires a challenge, we would have free epics everywhere. Crafting isn't hard."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
One thing not talked about much and not understood that well is the Mod system. With gear having mod slots, this opens up a different way to craft. We don't know if a crafter will have to set these mods or if they just have to make them. Could be that these mods drop and can be put into normal items to make them blues or even purples.
So it could be that mods become more important than the actual gear produced or dropped. That could mean that crafters can craft top gear that is just missing top mods. The mods could be what drops in operations. Crafters could still sell top items, but they would not be top items without the top level mods. That would mean the best crafted gear would be operation level gear once the mod is added. So you can sell these to players who have the mods or buy the mods and add them yourself. Just another wrinkle to add into it.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
That'll be good IF they are only talking about ingredients, and not recipies. If you have to raid to get the recipes, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They tried that in rift, and crafting is basically almost worthless.
Im with this sentiment. If you have to raid for recipes, they better drop in normal 8 man modes. If the absolute best recipes drop in 16 man hard modes, that would suck ass. Best case scenario is that raids drop tradeable items that augment existing recipes. That would encourage healthy trade between the crafting and raiding communities. Worst case scenario would be raiding for recipes. I could accept that if all the recipes could be obtained through the 8 man normal modes.
I have a serious distaste for linking raiding and crafting. No crafter should be forced to raid in order to make the best gear available to them(although I don't think it should be the best in game). If that means crafters need to collect ridiculous amounts of materials outside of raids to keep the "amount of effort to power ratio" balanced, then so be it. But they should never be dependent on raiding drops.
Crafting and adventuring shouldn't really mix at all. I hate how WoW gives certain stat bonuses for maxing out professions, thus forcing players to endure an aspect of gameplay they may not enjoy just to get a stat bonus, so by no means do I support crafting drops from raid bosses. I may even go so far as to say that I should be able to increase my skills as a crafting totally independant of my skills as an adventurer.
I will say; however, that I really don't think crafters should be able to craft the best gear (at least in a game like SW:TOR). In doing so, it really trivializes a hefty portion of actual game content and makes it all too easy for a players to simply buy gold for real life money to be able to afford crafted items. In a more sandbox oriented game where the appeal is player interaction rather than in-game content (seeing as sandboxes certainly have little in the way of actual game content that keeps players subscribed), I would have less of an issue with this.