I don't see the issue from a game standpoint. Once the masses figure out the leet build, that will be most of what you see in game. Jedi or otherwise.
It's a game in 2011. Three months in there will be build and leveling guides all over the Internet.
What I'm curious about is if Bioware will play whack-a-mole with the nerf bat, like the other guys do.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
Real knights were rare as well 700 years ago and not anyone could become one...
While games could limit one "noble" class for each account I am not sure this would be popular and forcing you to unlock the class with another character makes no sense whatsoever.
It is just a game, let people play what they want.
As for powerful I am not sure that Luke really would beat Han Solo in a down and dirty fight. And making certain classes more powerful than others is bad enough in a PvE only game (it works if you need all classes for grouping) but is not an option for any game with PvP. While this might be unrealistic we see worse things in TOR, I don't remember Luke looting people in the movies...
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
You were never going to play SWTOR to begin with so i wil just call this topic ..an attempt to start flames. Secondly it is a game and yes devs have to take certain liberties with IP because not eveything from movie can be successfully turned into a game.
Moreover, SWTOR exists thousands of years before SW movies and in those times Jedis were not hunted or endangered species. There were many many jedis and they were everywhere.
I don't remember Luke looting people in the movies...
I do. He killed a sand crab when training and pulled a +3 Sword of Uberness. What the crab was doing with a sword, we'll never know. *grin*
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
Real knights were rare as well 700 years ago and not anyone could become one...
While games could limit one "noble" class for each account I am not sure this would be popular and forcing you to unlock the class with another character makes no sense whatsoever.
It is just a game, let people play what they want.
As for powerful I am not sure that Luke really would beat Han Solo in a down and dirty fight. And making certain classes more powerful than others is bad enough in a PvE only game (it works if you need all classes for grouping) but is not an option for any game with PvP. While this might be unrealistic we see worse things in TOR, I don't remember Luke looting people in the movies...
Obi Wan looted Anakin. Also Luke looted a Storm Trooper Outfit.
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
This game takes place 3,500 - 4,000 years before the original Star Wars trilogy. It takes place during the time when there were LOTS of Sth and LOTS of Jedi.
This game is designed around the basic assumption that all of the heroes of the original Star Wars trilogy were larger than life and able to kick serious ass. I.e. Bobba Fett and Han Solo could take on Luke if they wanted to.
And I don't think it will be difficult to become immersed with the game at all.
Time lines is what's important I guess. In the movies the Jedi were a lot fewer as they were what was left of the 'elite warriors' ..
The Old Republic takes place somewhere 3500 years before the movies, when Jedi were in abundance. Do I think it is stupid that the entire game will be Jedi & Sith? Sure. Expecically since 4 of the 8 classes are force based. And of course those classes are designed to be the most appealing..
It'll be Bioware's challenge to make classes that are non-force based more appealing to the masses.. So far, that doesn't seem to be going too well...
I think it makes perfect sense that half the classes are Force-based considering that this game is a direct sequel to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II The Sith Lords.
You know, two games where you played Jedi and fought Sith.
Obi Wan looted Anakin. Also Luke looted a Storm Trooper Outfit.
In Lukes case it wasn't looting but one of those quests when you knock out or kill someone and then dresses up like them (masquerade quests?), they are not so uncommon.
In TOR you will loot most persons, I can give you that there was one boss looting in 6 movies, but that is not enough to justify the usual MMO looting mechanics.
But as I said earlier, it is just a game and they never makes absolut sense.
I didn't have time to read the whole thread...but a question...
Isn't the lore of this time that there are a lot of Jedi and SIth but they are not very skilled cmpared to the Force users in the movies? Even the Masters are not strong in the force. I assumed this is why a Trooper vs Jedi is an even battle.
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
You have to see the players as the exceptional warriors. The SW universe has billions of people/entities and the players just represent a tiny fraction of those people, who happen to have exceptional fighting skills.
So no, its not every John Schmoe at all.
I find it retarded how some people always think that players represent the average person in a MMO.
The balance is just needed for the sake of fun gameplay. Other option would be that force users are no playable class.
Anyone that took a peak around the forums on the TOR website would see that non force user classes are VERY popular. Troopers, Bounty Hunters, Agents and Smugglers have a lot of cool abilities that are unique to their respective classes. I for one can't wait to set people on fire and grapple with my bounty hunter. So you guys that say there the other classes aren't appealing to the masses are only speaking for yourselves.
Obi Wan looted Anakin. Also Luke looted a Storm Trooper Outfit.
In Lukes case it wasn't looting but one of those quests when you knock out or kill someone and then dresses up like them (masquerade quests?), they are not so uncommon.
In TOR you will loot most persons, I can give you that there was one boss looting in 6 movies, but that is not enough to justify the usual MMO looting mechanics.
But as I said earlier, it is just a game and they never makes absolut sense.
Actually there was a lot of looting. Some more examples, Chewie and the Ewoks looted a AT-AT in Episode 6, also in episode 6 the ship they landed on endor was an imperial ship. Also if you notice at the end the Ewoks are playing drums on the helmets of looted imperial soilders.
I am amazed how SWG has conditioned people in believing things being in the movies that never have been there at all, whatsoever.
Jedis are almost always TRAINED FROM EARLY YOUTH.
So yeah, making a normal guy and him evolving into a Jedi was a one time deal only for Luke Skywalker, because circumstances allowed no other option. But this was done for ABSOLUTELY NOBODY else. In fact they tried the same thing with Anakin Skywalker before (who was still a young child) and look how drastically they failed.
That means, the only realistic option in any Star Wars game to make a Jedi is to choose making one in the character creator.
THAT is what the movies tells us. Nothing else.
Also, are you kidding ? The player is of course always the special guy. Do you want millions of players to play farmers, paper-shufflers and ice-cream seller to have one single player play a Jedi, just to be realistic on the rareness of the Jedi ?
The mass of people are NPCs and not the hero. The player is always the hero. So yeah, the player is a Jedi, or they are other elite people. They are never mr random guy the nobody.
Actually there was a lot of looting. Some more examples, Chewie and the Ewoks looted a AT-AT in Episode 6, also in episode 6 the ship they landed on endor was an imperial ship. Also if you notice at the end the Ewoks are playing drums on the helmets of looted imperial soilders.
Stealing a ship or a AT-ST (not a AT-AT) is not looting. MMO looting is when you take something you find on a killed enemy and either add it to your gear or sell it, often to a vendor. Stealing a ship is more of a rather typical quest.
If the SW movies were like TOR then Obi Wan would have stolen Darth Mauls double lightsaber.
The use of helmets as drums seems more like the EQ2 type of quest when you get items you can hang in your house after completion.
MMO looting mechanics means that you search all killed or captured enemy after money and valuable things, something not common in fiction. In reality it reminds me of the poor people following armies and loot the battleground after a battle.
I'm a SW fan and I approve of the idea. As a gamer I don't want to spend an insane amount of time on becoming a jedi. I'd much rather be a jedi and focus on the lore in order to immerse myself.
Another aspect is the balance of classes. If a Jedi class was hard to obtain it would have to be better than the other classes in order to justify the hard work. Bad idea
I am amazed how SWG has conditioned people in believing things being in the movies that never have been there at all, whatsoever.
Jedis are almost always TRAINED FROM EARLY YOUTH.
So yeah, making a normal guy and him evolving into a Jedi was a one time deal only for Luke Skywalker, because circumstances allowed no other option. But this was done for ABSOLUTELY NOBODY else. In fact they tried the same thing with Anakin Skywalker before (who was still a young child) and look how drastically they failed.
That means, the only realistic option in any Star Wars game to make a Jedi is to choose making one in the character creator.
THAT is what the movies tells us. Nothing else.
Also, are you kidding ? The player is of course always the special guy. Do you want millions of players to play farmers, paper-shufflers and ice-cream seller to have one single player play a Jedi, just to be realistic on the rareness of the Jedi ?
The mass of people are NPCs and not the hero. The player is always the hero. So yeah, the player is a Jedi, or they are other elite people. They are never mr random guy the nobody.
Heres my thing, Just because yoru playing an adult in SW:ToR as a jedi, dont mean you were not trained as a kid. This is just where your story takes place, from what I can tell its you as a padawan moving up starting even befor you build your first lightsaber. Look at the movies, Obi-wan in EP1 was a padawan still He had a light saber but by the end of that he was knighted, he was in his early 20's when this happend. Why Is it unbelivable that you play as an adult Jedi?
For sith, I realy doubt they care who they train in the force as long as they can push them too the dark side. They put them threw there own trais and dont care if they die in that processes what ever dont kill them will make there hatrade in the force stronger.
As for reguler people taking down jedi? Seriously From what I have seen in footage your jedi takes out all these normal people just fine. Im sure they will have heroic/elite bosses that are harder to kill these are well trained people or monsters with high streaght. As for other players taking on jedi Solo, cannon with the movies even alous this. Bounty hunters killed off the rest of the Jedi order after Order 66. solo bounty hunters. Look at commandos in real life for us, there top elite fighters, I veiw these guys as Imp agents and troopers. There not just run of the mill trooper number 17543, there wll trained commando type guys. then you throw in dirty fighting smugglers, with elite pistol skills, you dont think they could land a few blaster bolts on a jedi?
Actually there was a lot of looting. Some more examples, Chewie and the Ewoks looted a AT-AT in Episode 6, also in episode 6 the ship they landed on endor was an imperial ship. Also if you notice at the end the Ewoks are playing drums on the helmets of looted imperial soilders.
Stealing a ship or a AT-ST (not a AT-AT) is not looting. MMO looting is when you take something you find on a killed enemy and either add it to your gear or sell it, often to a vendor. Stealing a ship is more of a rather typical quest.
If the SW movies were like TOR then Obi Wan would have stolen Darth Mauls double lightsaber.
The use of helmets as drums seems more like the EQ2 type of quest when you get items you can hang in your house after completion.
MMO looting mechanics means that you search all killed or captured enemy after money and valuable things, something not common in fiction. In reality it reminds me of the poor people following armies and loot the battleground after a battle.
You said you did not remember seeing Luke loot anything in any Star Wars, I therefore gave you many examples of looting by the very definition of looting. Just admit you were wrong.
He goes to excellently explain that jedi loses a lot of their cool because they are being fan serviced way to much. In the original movies, you saw a lightsaber hear and there. in the new movies, they are basically parading them around, using them to scrap jawa butter on sand people bread.
It is why I firmly believe that Ralph Koasters vision of a Star Wars MMO was hundred times cooler than this, because it had more layers, were this is more pure fan service. It will be an easy sell for a 13 year old, but I personally think that they are just hurting their IP. They don't know when to stop, when to cut back.
Gamers often don't know what they are asking. they are not always supposed to get their fan service, they need to get what they need.
Uhgg... I think that's some straight up hogwash, imagined by someone who can only see their own vision of Star Wars which they imagined in their head, not what was actually on screen.
Why did the 3 newer flms have more lightsabers? Because it took place at a time before they were all but killed off. Why does KOTOR have so many? Again it was during a time before they were all killed off.
I hated the prequels and remasters, but what you just said is pure hogwash.
Uhm. I don't think you get it.
Lucas wrote and showed it that way, due to fan service. because jedis are coool!!111 when in reality, I personally just grew sick of them. Took away lot of their mystic, and replaced it with stupid lore and reasons.
He goes to excellently explain that jedi loses a lot of their cool because they are being fan serviced way to much. In the original movies, you saw a lightsaber hear and there. in the new movies, they are basically parading them around, using them to scrap jawa butter on sand people bread.
It is why I firmly believe that Ralph Koasters vision of a Star Wars MMO was hundred times cooler than this, because it had more layers, were this is more pure fan service. It will be an easy sell for a 13 year old, but I personally think that they are just hurting their IP. They don't know when to stop, when to cut back.
Gamers often don't know what they are asking. they are not always supposed to get their fan service, they need to get what they need.
Uhgg... I think that's some straight up hogwash, imagined by someone who can only see their own vision of Star Wars which they imagined in their head, not what was actually on screen.
Why did the 3 newer flms have more lightsabers? Because it took place at a time before they were all but killed off. Why does KOTOR have so many? Again it was during a time before they were all killed off.
I hated the prequels and remasters, but what you just said is pure hogwash.
Uhm. I don't think you get it.
Lucas wrote and showed it that way, due to fan service. because jedis are coool!!111 when in reality, I personally just grew sick of them. Took away lot of their mystic, and replaced it with stupid lore and reasons.
Great justification you just confirmed what he said you are seeing your own vision of Star Wars and assuming that somehow the way you see it is the right way to see it.
I am amazed how SWG has conditioned people in believing things being in the movies that never have been there at all, whatsoever.
Jedis are almost always TRAINED FROM EARLY YOUTH.
So yeah, making a normal guy and him evolving into a Jedi was a one time deal only for Luke Skywalker, because circumstances allowed no other option. But this was done for ABSOLUTELY NOBODY else. In fact they tried the same thing with Anakin Skywalker before (who was still a young child) and look how drastically they failed.
That means, the only realistic option in any Star Wars game to make a Jedi is to choose making one in the character creator.
THAT is what the movies tells us. Nothing else.
Also, are you kidding ? The player is of course always the special guy. Do you want millions of players to play farmers, paper-shufflers and ice-cream seller to have one single player play a Jedi, just to be realistic on the rareness of the Jedi ?
The mass of people are NPCs and not the hero. The player is always the hero. So yeah, the player is a Jedi, or they are other elite people. They are never mr random guy the nobody.
This actually wasn't done in the Old Republic era.....any and all force sensitive beings were trained, regardless of age.
It wasn't until much later, after the disappearance of the Sith and their constant menace (Darth Bane era) that the Jedi began training their students from as early an age as possible. Up until this point, the Jedi were worried that if they didn't train EVERY force user in the ways of the light side, that the Sith would find them and train them in the ways of the dark.
Did I stumble onto a five year old thread from SWG?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
I don't see the issue from a game standpoint. Once the masses figure out the leet build, that will be most of what you see in game. Jedi or otherwise.
It's a game in 2011. Three months in there will be build and leveling guides all over the Internet.
What I'm curious about is if Bioware will play whack-a-mole with the nerf bat, like the other guys do.
Real knights were rare as well 700 years ago and not anyone could become one...
While games could limit one "noble" class for each account I am not sure this would be popular and forcing you to unlock the class with another character makes no sense whatsoever.
It is just a game, let people play what they want.
As for powerful I am not sure that Luke really would beat Han Solo in a down and dirty fight. And making certain classes more powerful than others is bad enough in a PvE only game (it works if you need all classes for grouping) but is not an option for any game with PvP. While this might be unrealistic we see worse things in TOR, I don't remember Luke looting people in the movies...
You were never going to play SWTOR to begin with so i wil just call this topic ..an attempt to start flames. Secondly it is a game and yes devs have to take certain liberties with IP because not eveything from movie can be successfully turned into a game.
Moreover, SWTOR exists thousands of years before SW movies and in those times Jedis were not hunted or endangered species. There were many many jedis and they were everywhere.
I do. He killed a sand crab when training and pulled a +3 Sword of Uberness. What the crab was doing with a sword, we'll never know. *grin*
Obi Wan looted Anakin. Also Luke looted a Storm Trooper Outfit.
In Bioware we trust!
This game takes place 3,500 - 4,000 years before the original Star Wars trilogy. It takes place during the time when there were LOTS of Sth and LOTS of Jedi.
This game is designed around the basic assumption that all of the heroes of the original Star Wars trilogy were larger than life and able to kick serious ass. I.e. Bobba Fett and Han Solo could take on Luke if they wanted to.
And I don't think it will be difficult to become immersed with the game at all.
I think it makes perfect sense that half the classes are Force-based considering that this game is a direct sequel to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II The Sith Lords.
You know, two games where you played Jedi and fought Sith.
In Lukes case it wasn't looting but one of those quests when you knock out or kill someone and then dresses up like them (masquerade quests?), they are not so uncommon.
In TOR you will loot most persons, I can give you that there was one boss looting in 6 movies, but that is not enough to justify the usual MMO looting mechanics.
But as I said earlier, it is just a game and they never makes absolut sense.
I saw a great tweet yesterday...
"The Old Republic is the Drizzt of Star Wars"
I didn't have time to read the whole thread...but a question...
Isn't the lore of this time that there are a lot of Jedi and SIth but they are not very skilled cmpared to the Force users in the movies? Even the Masters are not strong in the force. I assumed this is why a Trooper vs Jedi is an even battle.
You have to see the players as the exceptional warriors. The SW universe has billions of people/entities and the players just represent a tiny fraction of those people, who happen to have exceptional fighting skills.
So no, its not every John Schmoe at all.
I find it retarded how some people always think that players represent the average person in a MMO.
The balance is just needed for the sake of fun gameplay. Other option would be that force users are no playable class.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I wanted to be a twilek trooper healer, but twileks can't be troopers so ill go the jedi healer route.
Actually there was a lot of looting. Some more examples, Chewie and the Ewoks looted a AT-AT in Episode 6, also in episode 6 the ship they landed on endor was an imperial ship. Also if you notice at the end the Ewoks are playing drums on the helmets of looted imperial soilders.
In Bioware we trust!
They can't get their big ol dumb heads into a trooper helmet.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I blame their Rocky Dennis foreheads.
In Bioware we trust!
I am amazed how SWG has conditioned people in believing things being in the movies that never have been there at all, whatsoever.
Jedis are almost always TRAINED FROM EARLY YOUTH.
So yeah, making a normal guy and him evolving into a Jedi was a one time deal only for Luke Skywalker, because circumstances allowed no other option. But this was done for ABSOLUTELY NOBODY else. In fact they tried the same thing with Anakin Skywalker before (who was still a young child) and look how drastically they failed.
That means, the only realistic option in any Star Wars game to make a Jedi is to choose making one in the character creator.
THAT is what the movies tells us. Nothing else.
Also, are you kidding ? The player is of course always the special guy. Do you want millions of players to play farmers, paper-shufflers and ice-cream seller to have one single player play a Jedi, just to be realistic on the rareness of the Jedi ?
The mass of people are NPCs and not the hero. The player is always the hero. So yeah, the player is a Jedi, or they are other elite people. They are never mr random guy the nobody.
Stealing a ship or a AT-ST (not a AT-AT) is not looting. MMO looting is when you take something you find on a killed enemy and either add it to your gear or sell it, often to a vendor. Stealing a ship is more of a rather typical quest.
If the SW movies were like TOR then Obi Wan would have stolen Darth Mauls double lightsaber.
The use of helmets as drums seems more like the EQ2 type of quest when you get items you can hang in your house after completion.
MMO looting mechanics means that you search all killed or captured enemy after money and valuable things, something not common in fiction. In reality it reminds me of the poor people following armies and loot the battleground after a battle.
I'm a SW fan and I approve of the idea. As a gamer I don't want to spend an insane amount of time on becoming a jedi. I'd much rather be a jedi and focus on the lore in order to immerse myself.
Another aspect is the balance of classes. If a Jedi class was hard to obtain it would have to be better than the other classes in order to justify the hard work. Bad idea
Heres my thing, Just because yoru playing an adult in SW:ToR as a jedi, dont mean you were not trained as a kid. This is just where your story takes place, from what I can tell its you as a padawan moving up starting even befor you build your first lightsaber. Look at the movies, Obi-wan in EP1 was a padawan still He had a light saber but by the end of that he was knighted, he was in his early 20's when this happend. Why Is it unbelivable that you play as an adult Jedi?
For sith, I realy doubt they care who they train in the force as long as they can push them too the dark side. They put them threw there own trais and dont care if they die in that processes what ever dont kill them will make there hatrade in the force stronger.
As for reguler people taking down jedi? Seriously From what I have seen in footage your jedi takes out all these normal people just fine. Im sure they will have heroic/elite bosses that are harder to kill these are well trained people or monsters with high streaght. As for other players taking on jedi Solo, cannon with the movies even alous this. Bounty hunters killed off the rest of the Jedi order after Order 66. solo bounty hunters. Look at commandos in real life for us, there top elite fighters, I veiw these guys as Imp agents and troopers. There not just run of the mill trooper number 17543, there wll trained commando type guys. then you throw in dirty fighting smugglers, with elite pistol skills, you dont think they could land a few blaster bolts on a jedi?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loot
You said you did not remember seeing Luke loot anything in any Star Wars, I therefore gave you many examples of looting by the very definition of looting. Just admit you were wrong.
In Bioware we trust!
Uhm. I don't think you get it.
Lucas wrote and showed it that way, due to fan service. because jedis are coool!!111 when in reality, I personally just grew sick of them. Took away lot of their mystic, and replaced it with stupid lore and reasons.
Great justification you just confirmed what he said you are seeing your own vision of Star Wars and assuming that somehow the way you see it is the right way to see it.
This actually wasn't done in the Old Republic era.....any and all force sensitive beings were trained, regardless of age.
It wasn't until much later, after the disappearance of the Sith and their constant menace (Darth Bane era) that the Jedi began training their students from as early an age as possible. Up until this point, the Jedi were worried that if they didn't train EVERY force user in the ways of the light side, that the Sith would find them and train them in the ways of the dark.
Did I stumble onto a five year old thread from SWG?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
LOL....you would think so, right??