Having raided since vanilla i don't see an issue with this at all.. it speeds up the process for the most part. It lets guilds join LFR to easily get that extra dps or healer that would otherwise takes 30minutes to over an hour to find in trade.
As for the gear getting easier to obtain.. ya sure its easier but ya know what? They aren't the best out there, i can get epics fairly easy.. doesn't mean i can hold a candle to the dedicated raiders gear or possible performance. LFR won't be any different, it will be weaker epics.
That said the original gear grinds the game had to offer for the most part were unrealistic and destructive to fairness aswell to a persons well being. They still have hard modes for the dedicated players for the most epic items.. i don't see an issue.
Hardmodes no matter which game aren't content, they are more of the same with minor tweaks thats not new, thats not challenging just dumb.
What is wrong with alternative version of a fight?
Easy, Medium, Hard, Nightmare modes! There are games out there with those features.
Oh, wait wait because its WoW there should only be one way to fight any boss. WTF was I thinking.
Hardmodes no matter which game aren't content, they are more of the same with minor tweaks thats not new, thats not challenging just dumb.
What is wrong with alternative version of a fight?
Easy, Medium, Hard, Nightmare modes! There are games out there with those features.
Oh, wait wait because its WoW there should only be one way to fight any boss. WTF was I thinking.
If you compare the real Vanilla and TBC pre 3.0 raids to everything after you should already know the answer to your own question.
Yes there are games outthere and most of them are singleplayer games for a reason and even in singleplayer games its just. Usually you play the game and then your done, whats the point of playing it in a harder version? Its either challenging from the start or not.
Whatever if World of Warcraft is the only game using such a crappy mechanic so be it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Whatever if World of Warcraft is the only game using such a crappy mechanic so be it.
Vanilla to Cata, been there seen the changes. The game difficulties are still there at the same time allowing more players to experience the same content.
If the game mechanics are so crappy, then why do they continue to be so successful?
Does it mean it's a better game? Not necessarily, this will be largely debated with no conclusion.
So did millions of players get it all wrong for playing this game?
This doesn't change the fact that WoW is only about grinding dungeons and nothing more. Can level in a few days and then it's just standing in Org waiting for a queue to pop to run the same dungeon you ran 10 times that day already. There should be more to a game than a few repetition dungeons to grind for gear that rarely if ever drops.
seems like a great feature to me, I wish it had been added during wotlk. I don't have to do the cutting egde content, but simply being able to see and fight the main boss of a curent expansion would have been fun.
This sounds like a very good feature. I don't get why some people come over and still manage to find something to bitch about, while some feedbacks are simply off the topic...
In case pugging dungeons wasn't bad enough . . . on the other hand, please keep on buying those subs. Keep that stock value up until D3 is out.
The stock value is not bad, but hasn't really moved much even with their blockbuster sales and milestone subs. Would be a bad investment for anyone wanting to buy shares now.
This doesn't change the fact that WoW is only about grinding dungeons and nothing more. Can level in a few days and then it's just standing in Org waiting for a queue to pop to run the same dungeon you ran 10 times that day already. There should be more to a game than a few repetition dungeons to grind for gear that rarely if ever drops.
EDIT: Someone reported my post as spam, had to "verify" my humanity, so it double posted. Good times.
LFD is already infested with scrubs / griefers / haters / afk's / ninja's
LFR will be so much more fail then the dungeon finder.
Example 1
Kick the retard pls he has 8000 gearscore (6000 is required for the sake of it)
Kick that idiot pls he misses 1 enhant on his boots
Healer and tank joins and go afk because its cool to waiste peoples time
50% of the raid leave after 1st wipe
Just a few examples of how this will turn out.
After a few weeks no tanks or healers join anymore as they are fed up with cool kids abusing the system.
Same situation aplies already in the LFD tool system evry1 knows that.
When blizzard introduce a rating system for abusers whoc ant join anymore then the system might work at some time when all the haters and griefers are banned from using the tool.
I played wow for around 6 years and played on the following servers
Korgal
Laughing skull
Bladefist
Europe servers
From the moment you step into the dungeon you get inspected even at low level dungeons for that matter people check your gearscore lawl......
When its not what they expect you get bashed / griefed horribly untill yo ueither leave or get kicked when the timer wears off.
Dunno wich battlegroup you play or wich zone USA / EU ?
I played on Bladefist EU when it got worse and worse and worse with people griefing like in the expamples i gave you bro, its realy even worse then you could imagen and maybe your lucky on the battlegroup your in.
But where i played it was horrible.
No patience for buffing up explaning tactics for normals or heroics
Gearscore bashing
Griefing
Players leeching till kicked
Tank joining and leaving
healers not healing
just a tip of the assholes i met in over 75% of a normal group
when you have a nice group you are blessed and that happens once in a blue moon.
Talking about Random Dungeons only from level 15 till 85 normals and heroics.
So my expectations of a random Raid finder are null :P
Main reason i stoppped playing is the horrible community wow has gotten over the past 4 years.
And with Guild levels it only became harder to form a small cousy guild where you can feel at home and not forced to raid or get kicked.
Not telling lies bro this is my expirience from random dungeons
Its like doing pvp, when you enter wsg / ab and see people griefing you right of the bat or just afk and walk around in circles to anoy evry1 involved.
The real wow community died in 2005/2006 for me when cross server battlegrounds got introduced but thats another story !
Before the DF it was really hard to find a good group. Most groups I found were unskilled, hostile or both.
After DF it was still really hard to find a good group, but finding a bad group was much faster.
Now similar mechanics are going in place to PUG raids? Great idea... sort of.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Ahh.. the joys of sitting in IF for 3 hours going 'LF1M for BRD!'
Yes, I am still BITTER! :P
And then when you finally get one, you find out the healer has been AFK for the last half hour mowing the lawn.
Been there :-)
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Wonder if the raid leader can be randomly replaced when his typical pug raid results make him ragequit.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
LFD is already infested with scrubs / griefers / haters / afk's / ninja's
LFR will be so much more fail then the dungeon finder.
Example 1
Kick the retard pls he has 8000 gearscore (6000 is required for the sake of it)
Kick that idiot pls he misses 1 enhant on his boots
Healer and tank joins and go afk because its cool to waiste peoples time
50% of the raid leave after 1st wipe
Just a few examples of how this will turn out.
After a few weeks no tanks or healers join anymore as they are fed up with cool kids abusing the system.
Same situation aplies already in the LFD tool system evry1 knows that.
When blizzard introduce a rating system for abusers whoc ant join anymore then the system might work at some time when all the haters and griefers are banned from using the tool.
Not sure what game you have been playing but it obviously wasn't WoW.. I rarely ran into a dungeon where your situation applies. Now i've kicked people who couldn't perform for the content that was needed.. as they weren't ready or had no idea how to play their class.
The raid tool will be great for guilds needing some quick dps that they can't find in trade or even some heals or a tank. The pure pug may struggle but atleast it gets made.. half the groups fail after 1-2 hours of finding people to do it.
First of all, I have to say, I understand what both of you are saying. I'm definitely not against this. It's optional, so if it turns out to be a nightmare, you don't have to do it. Also, the "real-raids" will still be there. I don't think it hurts anyone's experience of what WoW is today (I'm not talking about Vanilla or BC because I never played in V or raided in BC -- but the fact is, those games are dead and gone and WoW Cata is what we have now, like it or not).
But -- LOL!
I understand what Mothanos is worried about. I think it's funny. I have about a 60% success rate (just what it feels like) with PUGs. Often enough, you get good groups, but sometimes you just get on a bad run with people just leaving when there mom calls them to dinner or they got the drop they wanted (especially bad when its tanks or healers) forcing you to wait because you don't want the debuff.
Also, I'm leveling up some tank classes. You really get some annoying people in pugs racing up ahead and pulling stuff, pets aggroing stuff, etc.
I can only imagine what a nightmare it can be to tank 25-man PUGs if you get a bad group. I have to think the chances are high with 5 times more people, no?
Whatever if World of Warcraft is the only game using such a crappy mechanic so be it.
Vanilla to Cata, been there seen the changes. The game difficulties are still there at the same time allowing more players to experience the same content.
If the game mechanics are so crappy, then why do they continue to be so successful?
Does it mean it's a better game? Not necessarily, this will be largely debated with no conclusion.
So did millions of players got it all wrong for playing this game?
I think it was simply that Blizzard made a decision to target a younger demographic and started tailoring the game to attract that age range of players . Children tend to want instant gratification so this is why these finder tools got put into the game its also why the raids were made easier so there was very little chance of faliure and rage quitting by younger players . My 11 year old niece loves the Twilight Books and Justin Beiber shes also into WoW .I think that pretty much goes to prove popularity and quality don't go hand in hand especially when its aimed at children and people in thier early teens . If I were 12 years old playing WoW with all my school friends then talking about it in class the next day . I would think it was the coolest game on earth . But I was there at the begining of WoW and I saw how much its gone downhill over the years both in terms of quality and community .
Don't think that this will "save" WoW in long term.
This won't fundamentally change game itself. That's why after initial hype of 'new feature' , this won't have as big impact as Blizzard / some players think imho.
The older and stronger people are not liking this. 'Cause the other have the chante to get on raids much more fast an easy (and withouth ninjas) that looking into a channel to get on a group.
Sigh, there are days I miss being the MT. WOTLK was fun because it was accessable to so many mediocre players with the harder parts reserved to the slightly better. I just lost interest between content updates.
Comments
What is wrong with alternative version of a fight?
Easy, Medium, Hard, Nightmare modes! There are games out there with those features.
Oh, wait wait because its WoW there should only be one way to fight any boss. WTF was I thinking.
If you compare the real Vanilla and TBC pre 3.0 raids to everything after you should already know the answer to your own question.
Yes there are games outthere and most of them are singleplayer games for a reason and even in singleplayer games its just. Usually you play the game and then your done, whats the point of playing it in a harder version? Its either challenging from the start or not.
Whatever if World of Warcraft is the only game using such a crappy mechanic so be it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Vanilla to Cata, been there seen the changes. The game difficulties are still there at the same time allowing more players to experience the same content.
If the game mechanics are so crappy, then why do they continue to be so successful?
Does it mean it's a better game? Not necessarily, this will be largely debated with no conclusion.
So did millions of players get it all wrong for playing this game?
This doesn't change the fact that WoW is only about grinding dungeons and nothing more. Can level in a few days and then it's just standing in Org waiting for a queue to pop to run the same dungeon you ran 10 times that day already. There should be more to a game than a few repetition dungeons to grind for gear that rarely if ever drops.
seems like a great feature to me, I wish it had been added during wotlk. I don't have to do the cutting egde content, but simply being able to see and fight the main boss of a curent expansion would have been fun.
This sounds like a very good feature. I don't get why some people come over and still manage to find something to bitch about, while some feedbacks are simply off the topic...
The stock value is not bad, but hasn't really moved much even with their blockbuster sales and milestone subs. Would be a bad investment for anyone wanting to buy shares now.
This doesn't change the fact that WoW is only about grinding dungeons and nothing more. Can level in a few days and then it's just standing in Org waiting for a queue to pop to run the same dungeon you ran 10 times that day already. There should be more to a game than a few repetition dungeons to grind for gear that rarely if ever drops.
EDIT: Someone reported my post as spam, had to "verify" my humanity, so it double posted. Good times.
you can always not use if it you don't want to. honestly if you're in a guild, you shouldn't have to.
LFD is already infested with scrubs / griefers / haters / afk's / ninja's
LFR will be so much more fail then the dungeon finder.
Example 1
Kick the retard pls he has 8000 gearscore (6000 is required for the sake of it)
Kick that idiot pls he misses 1 enhant on his boots
Healer and tank joins and go afk because its cool to waiste peoples time
50% of the raid leave after 1st wipe
Just a few examples of how this will turn out.
After a few weeks no tanks or healers join anymore as they are fed up with cool kids abusing the system.
Same situation aplies already in the LFD tool system evry1 knows that.
When blizzard introduce a rating system for abusers whoc ant join anymore then the system might work at some time when all the haters and griefers are banned from using the tool.
I played wow for around 6 years and played on the following servers
Korgal
Laughing skull
Bladefist
Europe servers
From the moment you step into the dungeon you get inspected even at low level dungeons for that matter people check your gearscore lawl......
When its not what they expect you get bashed / griefed horribly untill yo ueither leave or get kicked when the timer wears off.
Dunno wich battlegroup you play or wich zone USA / EU ?
I played on Bladefist EU when it got worse and worse and worse with people griefing like in the expamples i gave you bro, its realy even worse then you could imagen and maybe your lucky on the battlegroup your in.
But where i played it was horrible.
No patience for buffing up explaning tactics for normals or heroics
Gearscore bashing
Griefing
Players leeching till kicked
Tank joining and leaving
healers not healing
just a tip of the assholes i met in over 75% of a normal group
when you have a nice group you are blessed and that happens once in a blue moon.
Talking about Random Dungeons only from level 15 till 85 normals and heroics.
So my expectations of a random Raid finder are null :P
Main reason i stoppped playing is the horrible community wow has gotten over the past 4 years.
And with Guild levels it only became harder to form a small cousy guild where you can feel at home and not forced to raid or get kicked.
Not telling lies bro this is my expirience from random dungeons
Its like doing pvp, when you enter wsg / ab and see people griefing you right of the bat or just afk and walk around in circles to anoy evry1 involved.
The real wow community died in 2005/2006 for me when cross server battlegrounds got introduced but thats another story !
Anything that will ease the way people can do group content is something that should be encouraged.
I see this as something really positive.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Before the DF it was really hard to find a good group. Most groups I found were unskilled, hostile or both.
After DF it was still really hard to find a good group, but finding a bad group was much faster.
Now similar mechanics are going in place to PUG raids? Great idea... sort of.
Ahh.. the joys of sitting in IF for 3 hours going 'LF1M for BRD!'
Yes, I am still BITTER! :P
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
And then when you finally get one, you find out the healer has been AFK for the last half hour mowing the lawn.
Been there :-)
A blessing for people that would love to play and enjoy endgame and are not jobless.
Wonder if the raid leader can be randomly replaced when his typical pug raid results make him ragequit.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
First of all, I have to say, I understand what both of you are saying. I'm definitely not against this. It's optional, so if it turns out to be a nightmare, you don't have to do it. Also, the "real-raids" will still be there. I don't think it hurts anyone's experience of what WoW is today (I'm not talking about Vanilla or BC because I never played in V or raided in BC -- but the fact is, those games are dead and gone and WoW Cata is what we have now, like it or not).
But -- LOL!
I understand what Mothanos is worried about. I think it's funny. I have about a 60% success rate (just what it feels like) with PUGs. Often enough, you get good groups, but sometimes you just get on a bad run with people just leaving when there mom calls them to dinner or they got the drop they wanted (especially bad when its tanks or healers) forcing you to wait because you don't want the debuff.
Also, I'm leveling up some tank classes. You really get some annoying people in pugs racing up ahead and pulling stuff, pets aggroing stuff, etc.
I can only imagine what a nightmare it can be to tank 25-man PUGs if you get a bad group. I have to think the chances are high with 5 times more people, no?
I think it was simply that Blizzard made a decision to target a younger demographic and started tailoring the game to attract that age range of players . Children tend to want instant gratification so this is why these finder tools got put into the game its also why the raids were made easier so there was very little chance of faliure and rage quitting by younger players . My 11 year old niece loves the Twilight Books and Justin Beiber shes also into WoW .I think that pretty much goes to prove popularity and quality don't go hand in hand especially when its aimed at children and people in thier early teens . If I were 12 years old playing WoW with all my school friends then talking about it in class the next day . I would think it was the coolest game on earth . But I was there at the begining of WoW and I saw how much its gone downhill over the years both in terms of quality and community .
Don't think that this will "save" WoW in long term.
This won't fundamentally change game itself. That's why after initial hype of 'new feature' , this won't have as big impact as Blizzard / some players think imho.
The older and stronger people are not liking this. 'Cause the other have the chante to get on raids much more fast an easy (and withouth ninjas) that looking into a channel to get on a group.
HATERS GONNA HATE!!
Simple as that.
Sigh, there are days I miss being the MT. WOTLK was fun because it was accessable to so many mediocre players with the harder parts reserved to the slightly better. I just lost interest between content updates.