why would i like you said he subscribes every so often and has first hand expereince just like me and unlike slapshot.
Well you were getting on slap for his comment when it pretty mcuh was the same thing as Energyo. What I am saying is if it is the same as a long time player how does it have any less weight.
Also it only take a week to max out a pvp character I am sure he can play a triual or 2 and see any bug he wants to see. Hell you can log in and see bugs in the first couple mins.
its better to have first hand knowledge than to just copy what some other people are saying. Energyos opinion i respect because he has first hand kowledge slapshot just rpeeats what he hears.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
So reply to Energyo's points then if you think they are wrong.
Your silence on them just means you cannot counter those points and instead launch an ad hominem on another poster.
I will bullet point them for your ease of answering -
1) Territory control is only going to entertain the PVPers for a short period of time.
2) It's a temporary fix to a huge problem. Their problem does not lie only with pvp it is everything. Too much time wasted on useless features or features that are only used with a large striving population.
3) If MO is still alive after a year, even 6 months I think I may give it another shot but I'm pretty sure most people are just tired of it. Territroy Control is too little too late and IMO not the right direction they should be headed in.
4) I really can't see it (TC) adding all that much content.
5) This is pretty bad. Shouldn't be paying $15/mth for a game like that.
Will you respond to these points from a long term player or not?
its his own opinion based off of his own playing experience and being a customer of sv. You all know my opinions on the points he raised already simply by reading my posts. Im not gonig to argue agaisnt what hes saying because we are just going in a loop here. but my opinions arent shared by energyo both as long term players.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
So you disagree with him but have no reasoning behind that statement, when he gave solid reasons for his opinions. We just have to take your word he is wrong, even though you have stated that you only play due to free game time you were given for some reason.
try reading just a snippet of the psots i have already made on this subject in the correct thread.
"when they announced dawn i had concerns over the content, i was worried with them adding content that isnt aimed at the majority of players. 10% of players would likely experiment with cooking whilst 90% of players enjoy pvp and or pve. It made more sense to me at that crucial time to focus on something the majority of players would be involved in. When i seen the TC update i didnt have those concerns becuase i know this affects everyone but also adds content for everyone to enjoy and experience, they are giving players what they asked for and i applaud them for that i a market were the norm seems to be just ignore hwhat your player base want (aka darkfall) its nice to see them listening.
Obviously there track record isnt great, expecially with bugs its apauling but dawn braught cocntent but no substance tor insentive ot keep players playing. This update brings content that will keep people playing and thats the difference. Bugs certainly drive people away but content that changes little doesnt help and this changes alot.
Also maybe the TC update is onsidered the final part of dawn expansion? or maybe they learnt a lesson when calling a large patch an expansion doesnt work out so well."
"When i login to mo i enjoy my time playing the game, i dont see how im being decieved or gullable. If i was subscribing jsut based off of a possible future for MO then yea but im not im subscribed because i enjoy the game, the fact that mo also has plenty of exciting features planned is just something to look forward to. i do prefer the new mounts for the most part, i just think it was the wrong time to add them to the game."
"i think the game will live past janurary based on the TC update. More people will sub for that than dawn and it has a better chance of keeping them playing especially considering the current istuation with swg and darkfall, 2 mmo sandbox games coming to a close means people looking for something else."
"but like i said, territory control is content most people will enjoy. New horses and cooking isnt. Its that simple TC is what people want its content that will further the lfie of the game. Nothing which came in dawn did that, nothing whcih was coming in dawn was gonig to do that as i raised many concenrs before the patch wnet live over what was gonig to be in it. I dont have those issues with TC so im confident it will be much better recieved, sure the game will likely loose some people with bugs introduced in TC update but it wont loose even more through a lack of new content, unlike dawn."
so once again, i have to repeat the exact same thing over and over, this time i just copy and pasted them from the threads actaully linked to the subject matter.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I will bullet point them for your ease of answering -
1) Territory control is only going to entertain the PVPers for a short period of time.
2) It's a temporary fix to a huge problem. Their problem does not lie only with pvp it is everything. Too much time wasted on useless features or features that are only used with a large striving population.
3) If MO is still alive after a year, even 6 months I think I may give it another shot but I'm pretty sure most people are just tired of it. Territroy Control is too little too late and IMO not the right direction they should be headed in.
4) I really can't see it (TC) adding all that much content.
5) This is pretty bad. Shouldn't be paying $15/mth for a game like that.
Will you respond to these points from a long term player or not?
1. Disagree. Territory control is going to entertain me for a long time. I won't be happy until every guarded city has the guards removed and the carebears are forced into living in the capital cities. This is a very long term project with potential for endless fun fights.
2. It's not a temporary fix, it's real content (to me at least). You are not wrong that SV's priorities have been completely fucked in the past. I think bug fixing the major game breaking bugs that I have outlined in another thread is more important than territory control.
3. In order for territory control to succeed, they must at least fix the FAILED bug which makes large scale fights impossible. If they do fix it, then there could be enough of a population spike to keep the game afloat. If they don't fix it, the game will definitely fail, no doubt about it. We will know this sooner than 6 months.
4. TC is content for people interested in conquest. You're right it's not content for everyone, but pvpers will have a field day. They need the new AI in for serious 'dungeon' content.
5. Mortal is not worth 15$ a month in any case. If it were priced at 10$ a month I would think it was still high, but much more reasonable. SV needs to reprice their game. At 7-8$ a month I think you'd see more people supporting the game for the sake of supporting the game, and the overall sub numbers would be enough to cover the lowered subscription fee. A good CEO would know this.
I will bullet point them for your ease of answering -
1) Territory control is only going to entertain the PVPers for a short period of time.
2) It's a temporary fix to a huge problem. Their problem does not lie only with pvp it is everything. Too much time wasted on useless features or features that are only used with a large striving population.
3) If MO is still alive after a year, even 6 months I think I may give it another shot but I'm pretty sure most people are just tired of it. Territroy Control is too little too late and IMO not the right direction they should be headed in.
4) I really can't see it (TC) adding all that much content.
5) This is pretty bad. Shouldn't be paying $15/mth for a game like that.
Will you respond to these points from a long term player or not?
1. Disagree. Territory control is going to entertain me for a long time. I won't be happy until every guarded city has the guards removed and the carebears are forced into living in the capital cities. This is a very long term project with potential for endless fun fights.
2. It's not a temporary fix, it's real content (to me at least). You are not wrong that SV's priorities have been completely fucked in the past. I think bug fixing the major game breaking bugs that I have outlined in another thread is more important than territory control.
3. In order for territory control to succeed, they must at least fix the FAILED bug which makes large scale fights impossible. If they do fix it, then there could be enough of a population spike to keep the game afloat. If they don't fix it, the game will definitely fail, no doubt about it. We will know this sooner than 6 months.
4. TC is content for people interested in conquest. You're right it's not content for everyone, but pvpers will have a field day. They need the new AI in for serious 'dungeon' content.
5. Mortal is not worth 15$ a month in any case. If it were priced at 10$ a month I would think it was still high, but much more reasonable. SV needs to reprice their game. At 7-8$ a month I think you'd see more people supporting the game for the sake of supporting the game, and the overall sub numbers would be enough to cover the lowered subscription fee. A good CEO would know this.
I highly doubt that if they couldn't get basic systems working for Dawn, that a complex, layered system like territory control is going to work at all. I think you're going to have a very small percentage working of what they advertise, other things to "come soon" and even more "We are waiting on Epic for a patch". What SV is doing is building the hype machine (the one thing they are good at), getting people to come back and try out MO for territory control, and have them stay a few months because of the promises they keep pushing.
It's the new business model of the company. Might keep them around a few more months, I guess.
I highly doubt that if they couldn't get basic systems working for Dawn, that a complex, layered system like territory control is going to work at all. I think you're going to have a very small percentage working of what they advertise, other things to "come soon" and even more "We are waiting on Epic for a patch". What SV is doing is building the hype machine (the one thing they are good at), getting people to come back and try out MO for territory control, and have them stay a few months because of the promises they keep pushing.
It's the new business model of the company. Might keep them around a few more months, I guess.
The difference this time is that people I know personally will be testing the system before it is released. If SV doesn't iron out the bugs before they release the TC patch, everyone is going to know about it and no one will subscribe.
The hype-machine won't work when you have community tested patches, so if that is their model, they will be screwed this time around.
I have faith in a few of the testers in the focus group, so I don't think we will see anything nearly as bad as dawn.
psykobilly, yes people like you will be entertained. Heck I may even like some of it but for me it is not something that will keep me entertained for more than a week or two. I'm hoping TC patch comes out before my sub is up so I can try it out. The TC patch is not going to bring back many people from my guild who quit. It's going to entertain the 60 people still playing the game.
SV should have been looking at what caused such a high dropoff of subscribers and fixed those issues rather than trying to please the very few currently playing. Im not talking about right now, maybe TC is the only thing they can do right now but I'm talking about before Dawn was even released. It's these problems and decisions they make that are going to lead to MO's end.
Don't take anything I say as one of those MO SUCKS I HATE MO type posts. You know I've been playing since day one. I wish MO would live up to atleast some of its potential, but unfortunately I don't believe it ever will.
There's some Pros and very big Cons to lowering their price. Once they lower it they can't really raise it back up. I can see many people throwing a fit about that. If they were to cut it in half and only double their subs then they really arent making any more money and are still in the same situation. $10month seems a bit more reasonable but then again they may not even get that money back with more subs. This game did at one point have a large population but that faded away quickly, the same thing may happen even with a price cut. I would probably keep one of my subs going if it were dropped but I'm only one person. They need hundreds.
The TC patch is not going to bring back many people from my guild who quit. It's going to entertain the 60 people still playing the game.
SV should have been looking at what caused such a high dropoff of subscribers and fixed those issues rather than trying to please the very few currently playing.
I'm with you 100%. Fixing game-breaking bugs and improving the new player experience are way more important than territory control system.
The subscribed hardcore DOES need something to do though, cuz right now there is nothing.
Let's wait and see what the focus group feedback is (even if it won't be public).
The fact that this game is over a year into release and SV still, well this... "You would have to wait magnitudes until AI would have been in any way". This is pretty bad. Shouldn't be paying $15/mth for a game like that.
The game has no progression as many fans tout the ability to max your character in 2 weeks. It has no functional AI, so the PvE content is laughable. What you are left with is a persistent world FPS. Now.. there is probably a market for such a game, but instead they target sandbox MMORPG players.
If, as has been suggested... getting a functional AI is at least a year away, then the company needs to be honest with their customers (current and potential) and start to tout themselves as a persistent world FPS/PvP game and stop stringing along sandbox players.
how owuld you know you havent had anything above a trial since beta.
Feel free to address the points in my post as opposed to trying to shoot the messenger. If you feel anything I have stated is not true then please do point out the issue. I think that unlikely though.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The game has no progression as many fans tout the ability to max your character in 2 weeks. It has no functional AI, so the PvE content is laughable. What you are left with is a persistent world FPS. Now.. there is probably a market for such a game, but instead they target sandbox MMORPG players.
If, as has been suggested... getting a functional AI is at least a year away, then the company needs to be honest with their customers (current and potential) and start to tout themselves as a persistent world FPS/PvP game and stop stringing along sandbox players.
how owuld you know you havent had anything above a trial since beta.
Feel free to address the points in my post as opposed to trying to shoot the messenger. If you feel anything I have stated is not true then please do point out the issue. I think that unlikely though.
The game has progression, but its the grind to get high-end metals like cronite and oghmium. Refining and extracting are fairly complex processes that take a good deal of time investment, but pay off with really badass gear in the long run.
The AI is shit though, but I didn't think they said it was a year away. Who knows.
The game has no progression as many fans tout the ability to max your character in 2 weeks. It has no functional AI, so the PvE content is laughable. What you are left with is a persistent world FPS. Now.. there is probably a market for such a game, but instead they target sandbox MMORPG players.
If, as has been suggested... getting a functional AI is at least a year away, then the company needs to be honest with their customers (current and potential) and start to tout themselves as a persistent world FPS/PvP game and stop stringing along sandbox players.
how owuld you know you havent had anything above a trial since beta.
Feel free to address the points in my post as opposed to trying to shoot the messenger. If you feel anything I have stated is not true then please do point out the issue. I think that unlikely though.
The game has progression, but its the grind to get high-end metals like cronite and oghmium. Refining and extracting are fairly complex processes that take a good deal of time investment, but pay off with really badass gear in the long run.
The AI is shit though, but I didn't think they said it was a year away. Who knows.
I'd be happy with a bug free fps pvp game.
I think the problem with MO Billy is your last line. "I'd be happy with a bug free fps pvp game." It is an FPS game, it is niot bug free. But it is supposed to be an immersive sandbox. But in reality it is not it is an FPS deathmatch with crafting to support said deathmatch. And that is why the pop has sufffered.
The game has no progression as many fans tout the ability to max your character in 2 weeks. It has no functional AI, so the PvE content is laughable. What you are left with is a persistent world FPS. Now.. there is probably a market for such a game, but instead they target sandbox MMORPG players.
If, as has been suggested... getting a functional AI is at least a year away, then the company needs to be honest with their customers (current and potential) and start to tout themselves as a persistent world FPS/PvP game and stop stringing along sandbox players.
how owuld you know you havent had anything above a trial since beta.
Feel free to address the points in my post as opposed to trying to shoot the messenger. If you feel anything I have stated is not true then please do point out the issue. I think that unlikely though.
The game has progression, but its the grind to get high-end metals like cronite and oghmium. Refining and extracting are fairly complex processes that take a good deal of time investment, but pay off with really badass gear in the long run.
The AI is shit though, but I didn't think they said it was a year away. Who knows.
I'd be happy with a bug free fps pvp game.
I think the problem with MO Billy is your last line. "I'd be happy with a bug free fps pvp game." It is an FPS game, it is niot bug free. But it is supposed to be an immersive sandbox. But in reality it is not it is an FPS deathmatch with crafting to support said deathmatch. And that is why the pop has sufffered.
I cannot argue with logic.
MO has always been a deathmatch game. Period. How they billed this as a sandbox game is beyond me.
If they could finally fix bugs, add some working content and actually deliver on the TC- MO would be a decent PVP deathmatch game.
SV never thought about why most people enjoy sandbox games (hint: It is not for mindless PKing) since Henrik and co. were Griefers in UO, they thought thats who the game should favor. They never put it together that all wolves and no sheep = very dissapointed wolves. They never tried to attract the sheep, instead they actually chased them away "carebear's, go play WOW"
As a sandbox lover, I enjoy full loot. I am not a PVPer (not my style) but I love the danger and rush that full loot offers. Its been lost on modern "sandbox" devs that in order for a sandbox to work, there needs to be as much focus on non combat activities and a way to excell without needing to PVP (i.e. A great crafter/merchant who hires guards to travel as I did in UO) or make an in game rep for things like House decorating/construction.
MO is a PVPdeathmatch. Period... And a buggy one at that.
What you spect of new UI? a nice graph of "p" menu? ok. for me forget that shit and make other things. TC is really important for the game because owns keep have no sense, with the towers little guilds will be involved to if they dont want pay taxes. New UI is lots of things escep on P menu and inventory.
What you spect of new UI? a nice graph of "p" menu? ok. for me forget that shit and make other things. TC is really important for the game because owns keep have no sense, with the towers little guilds will be involved to if they dont want pay taxes. New UI is lots of things escep on P menu and inventory.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but let's just stick to the facts here: most people like a working UI in their MMO, and many new players are dismayed by MO's UI (like this guy for example). People nowadays are used to highly customizable UIs, the option of advanced hotkey setups, compatibality with gamer mouses and keyboards, and so on.
MO's UI on the other hand is ugly, buggy, clunky, and in now way suitable for a modern MMO that released in 2010 and also charges a premium sub fee. Since the UI is the player's connection to the game world, the whole gaming experience gets affected by its design. Most MO vets have forgotten this aspect, since they are so used to "getting around" the shitty UI - like they are used to "getting around" all the bugs, placeholders and shitty systems overall.
But for a new player, the whole thing just reeks of unprofessionalism and mediocre standards. Chances are he'll struggle with it for a while, die because he failed to "get around" its shittiness in time (or because some bugged mob or invisible player killed him), and then just give up.
That's why SV should have gotten the UI right from the start, together with more non-PvP sanbox content - then they would have had 10X the current playerbase by now. Sadly, they have gone down an entirely different route and now they're paying the price for it.
I added some more lines that I posted after that. At the same time no specific date for release of a patch was given. In terms of workload it only makes sense that working on something that would provide content for players and can be release very quickly should be worked on first; especially it's a mechanic in dire need of attention. As I said in the quote; having a good territory control system out, will allow us to focus entirely on AI, Magic and GUI with the player base actively engaged in the game.
And when the territorial control system is out, and the hue and cry to revamp siege warfare and fix large scale battles goes out, what then?
Anyone who's been following this game for more than a day knows the answer to that question. The supposed priorities will be dropped in a second, and all work will shift to revamp siege warfare/fix large scale battles. So far, PvP trumps all with SV's prioritization. That's not conjecture, that is their record.
The new build, now a year old, was sold by SV as the upgrade that would allow better AI, the flash GUI, etc. As stated, that build is now a year old, and though we've been told repeatedly such things were being worked on, there is nothing to show for it after all that time. Now, we're being told that those most basic and rudimentary systems are still months and months away?
When a company claims they've made something a priority, the playerbase is naturally going to assume the company will actually work on it. There is no evidence to suggest they have. Instead, claiming the AI, GUI, magic, and trade tools were a priority appears to have been done simply to appease the masses asking for them while SV continues to ignore everything else except PvP. Again.
AI, the GUI, and trade tools will never get done if SV never works on them, or keeps bumping other systems ahead of them time after time.
I remember saying that when dawn is out development will be faster and easier and total focus on AI, GUI and Magic... right after dawn. Well we have seen this same thing with epic patch, nothing will change... Those simple game mechanics are just too hard for devs to do so they try to draw peoples attention to another hyped addition to game.
Videos we've seen, lines we've read regarding next update, regarding next addition, regarding next patch are always over-hyped... and broken. What will this lead us? Game full of broken mechanics if things are not going to change and team trying to focus on real prioritios.
As said, after this patch they need to fix possible large-scale PvP problems (invisible people, desync, prediction, invisible weapons etc etc...) So actually they will never have time to focus on basic mechanics.
I wonder why the hell implement new mechanics instead of fixing and finalizing mechanics already in-game? This will lead us to totally broken game, thats my word.
I added some more lines that I posted after that. At the same time no specific date for release of a patch was given. In terms of workload it only makes sense that working on something that would provide content for players and can be release very quickly should be worked on first; especially it's a mechanic in dire need of attention. As I said in the quote; having a good territory control system out, will allow us to focus entirely on AI, Magic and GUI with the player base actively engaged in the game.
And when the territorial control system is out, and the hue and cry to revamp siege warfare and fix large scale battles goes out, what then?
Anyone who's been following this game for more than a day knows the answer to that question. The supposed priorities will be dropped in a second, and all work will shift to revamp siege warfare/fix large scale battles. So far, PvP trumps all with SV's prioritization. That's not conjecture, that is their record.
The new build, now a year old, was sold by SV as the upgrade that would allow better AI, the flash GUI, etc. As stated, that build is now a year old, and though we've been told repeatedly such things were being worked on, there is nothing to show for it after all that time. Now, we're being told that those most basic and rudimentary systems are still months and months away?
When a company claims they've made something a priority, the playerbase is naturally going to assume the company will actually work on it. There is no evidence to suggest they have. Instead, claiming the AI, GUI, magic, and trade tools were a priority appears to have been done simply to appease the masses asking for them while SV continues to ignore everything else except PvP. Again.
AI, the GUI, and trade tools will never get done if SV never works on them, or keeps bumping other systems ahead of them time after time.
I remember saying that when dawn is out development will be faster and easier and total focus on AI, GUI and Magic... right after dawn. Well we have seen this same thing with epic patch, nothing will change... Those simple game mechanics are just too hard for devs to do so they try to draw peoples attention to another hyped addition to game.
Videos we've seen, lines we've read regarding next update, regarding next addition, regarding next patch are always over-hyped... and broken. What will this lead us? Game full of broken mechanics if things are not going to change and team trying to focus on real prioritios.
As said, after this patch they need to fix possible large-scale PvP problems (invisible people, desync, prediction, invisible weapons etc etc...) So actually they will never have time to focus on basic mechanics.
I wonder why the hell implement new mechanics instead of fixing and finalizing mechanics already in-game? This will lead us to totally broken game, thats my word.
Nice find.
Clearly these two posts represent a quite accurate view of what is (and has been) happening all along... I mean, they "claim" AI has been "almost done" for at least the last six months , probably far longer- A year ago (Nov/Dec 2010) was one of the "epic" patches which would allow them to get the AI done. Where is the prograss? What have they been doing? They SAY AI is many months away, no word on GUI yet, failed bug still prevelant, breeding system not implemented, etc. etc.
-But out of the blue here comes the dev team pointing in the other direction "hey look, a shiney!!!!" (TC) and "its going to be great THIS TIME"
Where is the new breeding system didn't they say that would be right after DAWN?? It has been 4 months it is starting to sound like the other half of fishing.
The funny part is that the first person you quoted was a frequent defender of the game on these forums. Now it seems like he is cutting and pasting our posts from 6 months..ago.. a year ago... etc..
Seems like even some of the diehards are catching on...
Anyone who believes the current development plan needs to simply go back and read the HoC chats which are linked on the official forums. Start with the oldest and work your way up. You will find issue after issue that is carried over... and then eventually dropped from the discussions as those issues are replaced by new shiny ones which are carried over for awhile before being discarded for the next shiny issue... Then they start recycling the original issue (like AI) as though it's something new and shiny...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
why would i like you said he subscribes every so often and has first hand expereince just like me and unlike slapshot.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Well you were getting on slap for his comment when it pretty mcuh was the same thing as Energyo. What I am saying is if it is the same as a long time player how does it have any less weight.
Also it only take a week to max out a pvp character I am sure he can play a triual or 2 and see any bug he wants to see. Hell you can log in and see bugs in the first couple mins.
its better to have first hand knowledge than to just copy what some other people are saying. Energyos opinion i respect because he has first hand kowledge slapshot just rpeeats what he hears.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
How is it any less valid than what he says compaired to Energyo. Or did you just feel like trolling him? Try refuting instead of trolling good sir.
So reply to Energyo's points then if you think they are wrong.
Your silence on them just means you cannot counter those points and instead launch an ad hominem on another poster.
I will bullet point them for your ease of answering -
1) Territory control is only going to entertain the PVPers for a short period of time.
2) It's a temporary fix to a huge problem. Their problem does not lie only with pvp it is everything. Too much time wasted on useless features or features that are only used with a large striving population.
3) If MO is still alive after a year, even 6 months I think I may give it another shot but I'm pretty sure most people are just tired of it. Territroy Control is too little too late and IMO not the right direction they should be headed in.
4) I really can't see it (TC) adding all that much content.
5) This is pretty bad. Shouldn't be paying $15/mth for a game like that.
Will you respond to these points from a long term player or not?
its his own opinion based off of his own playing experience and being a customer of sv. You all know my opinions on the points he raised already simply by reading my posts. Im not gonig to argue agaisnt what hes saying because we are just going in a loop here. but my opinions arent shared by energyo both as long term players.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
So you disagree with him but have no reasoning behind that statement, when he gave solid reasons for his opinions. We just have to take your word he is wrong, even though you have stated that you only play due to free game time you were given for some reason.
Got it.
doesnt seem like you do betel.
try reading just a snippet of the psots i have already made on this subject in the correct thread.
"when they announced dawn i had concerns over the content, i was worried with them adding content that isnt aimed at the majority of players. 10% of players would likely experiment with cooking whilst 90% of players enjoy pvp and or pve. It made more sense to me at that crucial time to focus on something the majority of players would be involved in. When i seen the TC update i didnt have those concerns becuase i know this affects everyone but also adds content for everyone to enjoy and experience, they are giving players what they asked for and i applaud them for that i a market were the norm seems to be just ignore hwhat your player base want (aka darkfall) its nice to see them listening.
Obviously there track record isnt great, expecially with bugs its apauling but dawn braught cocntent but no substance tor insentive ot keep players playing. This update brings content that will keep people playing and thats the difference. Bugs certainly drive people away but content that changes little doesnt help and this changes alot.
Also maybe the TC update is onsidered the final part of dawn expansion? or maybe they learnt a lesson when calling a large patch an expansion doesnt work out so well."
"When i login to mo i enjoy my time playing the game, i dont see how im being decieved or gullable. If i was subscribing jsut based off of a possible future for MO then yea but im not im subscribed because i enjoy the game, the fact that mo also has plenty of exciting features planned is just something to look forward to. i do prefer the new mounts for the most part, i just think it was the wrong time to add them to the game."
"i think the game will live past janurary based on the TC update. More people will sub for that than dawn and it has a better chance of keeping them playing especially considering the current istuation with swg and darkfall, 2 mmo sandbox games coming to a close means people looking for something else."
"but like i said, territory control is content most people will enjoy. New horses and cooking isnt. Its that simple TC is what people want its content that will further the lfie of the game. Nothing which came in dawn did that, nothing whcih was coming in dawn was gonig to do that as i raised many concenrs before the patch wnet live over what was gonig to be in it. I dont have those issues with TC so im confident it will be much better recieved, sure the game will likely loose some people with bugs introduced in TC update but it wont loose even more through a lack of new content, unlike dawn."
so once again, i have to repeat the exact same thing over and over, this time i just copy and pasted them from the threads actaully linked to the subject matter.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
1. Disagree. Territory control is going to entertain me for a long time. I won't be happy until every guarded city has the guards removed and the carebears are forced into living in the capital cities. This is a very long term project with potential for endless fun fights.
2. It's not a temporary fix, it's real content (to me at least). You are not wrong that SV's priorities have been completely fucked in the past. I think bug fixing the major game breaking bugs that I have outlined in another thread is more important than territory control.
3. In order for territory control to succeed, they must at least fix the FAILED bug which makes large scale fights impossible. If they do fix it, then there could be enough of a population spike to keep the game afloat. If they don't fix it, the game will definitely fail, no doubt about it. We will know this sooner than 6 months.
4. TC is content for people interested in conquest. You're right it's not content for everyone, but pvpers will have a field day. They need the new AI in for serious 'dungeon' content.
5. Mortal is not worth 15$ a month in any case. If it were priced at 10$ a month I would think it was still high, but much more reasonable. SV needs to reprice their game. At 7-8$ a month I think you'd see more people supporting the game for the sake of supporting the game, and the overall sub numbers would be enough to cover the lowered subscription fee. A good CEO would know this.
I highly doubt that if they couldn't get basic systems working for Dawn, that a complex, layered system like territory control is going to work at all. I think you're going to have a very small percentage working of what they advertise, other things to "come soon" and even more "We are waiting on Epic for a patch". What SV is doing is building the hype machine (the one thing they are good at), getting people to come back and try out MO for territory control, and have them stay a few months because of the promises they keep pushing.
It's the new business model of the company. Might keep them around a few more months, I guess.
The difference this time is that people I know personally will be testing the system before it is released. If SV doesn't iron out the bugs before they release the TC patch, everyone is going to know about it and no one will subscribe.
The hype-machine won't work when you have community tested patches, so if that is their model, they will be screwed this time around.
I have faith in a few of the testers in the focus group, so I don't think we will see anything nearly as bad as dawn.
psykobilly, yes people like you will be entertained. Heck I may even like some of it but for me it is not something that will keep me entertained for more than a week or two. I'm hoping TC patch comes out before my sub is up so I can try it out. The TC patch is not going to bring back many people from my guild who quit. It's going to entertain the 60 people still playing the game.
SV should have been looking at what caused such a high dropoff of subscribers and fixed those issues rather than trying to please the very few currently playing. Im not talking about right now, maybe TC is the only thing they can do right now but I'm talking about before Dawn was even released. It's these problems and decisions they make that are going to lead to MO's end.
Don't take anything I say as one of those MO SUCKS I HATE MO type posts. You know I've been playing since day one. I wish MO would live up to atleast some of its potential, but unfortunately I don't believe it ever will.
There's some Pros and very big Cons to lowering their price. Once they lower it they can't really raise it back up. I can see many people throwing a fit about that. If they were to cut it in half and only double their subs then they really arent making any more money and are still in the same situation. $10month seems a bit more reasonable but then again they may not even get that money back with more subs. This game did at one point have a large population but that faded away quickly, the same thing may happen even with a price cut. I would probably keep one of my subs going if it were dropped but I'm only one person. They need hundreds.
I'm with you 100%. Fixing game-breaking bugs and improving the new player experience are way more important than territory control system.
The subscribed hardcore DOES need something to do though, cuz right now there is nothing.
Let's wait and see what the focus group feedback is (even if it won't be public).
Feel free to address the points in my post as opposed to trying to shoot the messenger. If you feel anything I have stated is not true then please do point out the issue. I think that unlikely though.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The game has progression, but its the grind to get high-end metals like cronite and oghmium. Refining and extracting are fairly complex processes that take a good deal of time investment, but pay off with really badass gear in the long run.
The AI is shit though, but I didn't think they said it was a year away. Who knows.
I'd be happy with a bug free fps pvp game.
I think the problem with MO Billy is your last line. "I'd be happy with a bug free fps pvp game." It is an FPS game, it is niot bug free. But it is supposed to be an immersive sandbox. But in reality it is not it is an FPS deathmatch with crafting to support said deathmatch. And that is why the pop has sufffered.
I cannot argue with logic.
MO has always been a deathmatch game. Period. How they billed this as a sandbox game is beyond me.
If they could finally fix bugs, add some working content and actually deliver on the TC- MO would be a decent PVP deathmatch game.
SV never thought about why most people enjoy sandbox games (hint: It is not for mindless PKing) since Henrik and co. were Griefers in UO, they thought thats who the game should favor. They never put it together that all wolves and no sheep = very dissapointed wolves. They never tried to attract the sheep, instead they actually chased them away "carebear's, go play WOW"
As a sandbox lover, I enjoy full loot. I am not a PVPer (not my style) but I love the danger and rush that full loot offers. Its been lost on modern "sandbox" devs that in order for a sandbox to work, there needs to be as much focus on non combat activities and a way to excell without needing to PVP (i.e. A great crafter/merchant who hires guards to travel as I did in UO) or make an in game rep for things like House decorating/construction.
MO is a PVPdeathmatch. Period... And a buggy one at that.
What you spect of new UI? a nice graph of "p" menu? ok. for me forget that shit and make other things. TC is really important for the game because owns keep have no sense, with the towers little guilds will be involved to if they dont want pay taxes. New UI is lots of things escep on P menu and inventory.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but let's just stick to the facts here: most people like a working UI in their MMO, and many new players are dismayed by MO's UI (like this guy for example). People nowadays are used to highly customizable UIs, the option of advanced hotkey setups, compatibality with gamer mouses and keyboards, and so on.
MO's UI on the other hand is ugly, buggy, clunky, and in now way suitable for a modern MMO that released in 2010 and also charges a premium sub fee. Since the UI is the player's connection to the game world, the whole gaming experience gets affected by its design. Most MO vets have forgotten this aspect, since they are so used to "getting around" the shitty UI - like they are used to "getting around" all the bugs, placeholders and shitty systems overall.
But for a new player, the whole thing just reeks of unprofessionalism and mediocre standards. Chances are he'll struggle with it for a while, die because he failed to "get around" its shittiness in time (or because some bugged mob or invisible player killed him), and then just give up.
That's why SV should have gotten the UI right from the start, together with more non-PvP sanbox content - then they would have had 10X the current playerbase by now. Sadly, they have gone down an entirely different route and now they're paying the price for it.
I had to post these responses from ling time players about SV priorities. I totally agree.
SOFWarrior
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Rep Power: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Opal
I added some more lines that I posted after that. At the same time no specific date for release of a patch was given. In terms of workload it only makes sense that working on something that would provide content for players and can be release very quickly should be worked on first; especially it's a mechanic in dire need of attention. As I said in the quote; having a good territory control system out, will allow us to focus entirely on AI, Magic and GUI with the player base actively engaged in the game.
And when the territorial control system is out, and the hue and cry to revamp siege warfare and fix large scale battles goes out, what then?
Anyone who's been following this game for more than a day knows the answer to that question. The supposed priorities will be dropped in a second, and all work will shift to revamp siege warfare/fix large scale battles. So far, PvP trumps all with SV's prioritization. That's not conjecture, that is their record.
The new build, now a year old, was sold by SV as the upgrade that would allow better AI, the flash GUI, etc. As stated, that build is now a year old, and though we've been told repeatedly such things were being worked on, there is nothing to show for it after all that time. Now, we're being told that those most basic and rudimentary systems are still months and months away?
When a company claims they've made something a priority, the playerbase is naturally going to assume the company will actually work on it. There is no evidence to suggest they have. Instead, claiming the AI, GUI, magic, and trade tools were a priority appears to have been done simply to appease the masses asking for them while SV continues to ignore everything else except PvP. Again.
AI, the GUI, and trade tools will never get done if SV never works on them, or keeps bumping other systems ahead of them time after time.
aamupala86
Member
/signed
I remember saying that when dawn is out development will be faster and easier and total focus on AI, GUI and Magic... right after dawn. Well we have seen this same thing with epic patch, nothing will change... Those simple game mechanics are just too hard for devs to do so they try to draw peoples attention to another hyped addition to game.
Videos we've seen, lines we've read regarding next update, regarding next addition, regarding next patch are always over-hyped... and broken. What will this lead us? Game full of broken mechanics if things are not going to change and team trying to focus on real prioritios.
As said, after this patch they need to fix possible large-scale PvP problems (invisible people, desync, prediction, invisible weapons etc etc...) So actually they will never have time to focus on basic mechanics.
I wonder why the hell implement new mechanics instead of fixing and finalizing mechanics already in-game? This will lead us to totally broken game, thats my word.
Nice find.
Clearly these two posts represent a quite accurate view of what is (and has been) happening all along... I mean, they "claim" AI has been "almost done" for at least the last six months , probably far longer- A year ago (Nov/Dec 2010) was one of the "epic" patches which would allow them to get the AI done. Where is the prograss? What have they been doing? They SAY AI is many months away, no word on GUI yet, failed bug still prevelant, breeding system not implemented, etc. etc.
-But out of the blue here comes the dev team pointing in the other direction "hey look, a shiney!!!!" (TC) and "its going to be great THIS TIME"
Such is the sad state of affairs.
Where is the new breeding system didn't they say that would be right after DAWN?? It has been 4 months it is starting to sound like the other half of fishing.
The funny part is that the first person you quoted was a frequent defender of the game on these forums. Now it seems like he is cutting and pasting our posts from 6 months..ago.. a year ago... etc..
Seems like even some of the diehards are catching on...
Anyone who believes the current development plan needs to simply go back and read the HoC chats which are linked on the official forums. Start with the oldest and work your way up. You will find issue after issue that is carried over... and then eventually dropped from the discussions as those issues are replaced by new shiny ones which are carried over for awhile before being discarded for the next shiny issue... Then they start recycling the original issue (like AI) as though it's something new and shiny...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018