Originally posted by D0ZeR "I mean, David recently hinted in IRC that there may be ways for player made game assets to be included as well, dragon lair decorations and structures seeming to be intended as the initial test run of this concept."
What David was referring to was things like having a monster skinning contest, or people who submit quests being able to provide art assets if they have the tools and talent for it, or Blue-Hasia's recolored hoard images & custom armor dyes. Those who have the desire and ability to create and animate monster meshes may be able to submit those down the line as well. TG is aware that some members of the player base have the ability and the desire to produce assets of several kinds which could be used in the game, and is willing to consider what those players have to offer.
Originally posted by D0ZeR You call that a fair review? It is a one post wonder. No one can trust a one post wonder. "I mean, David recently hinted in IRC that there may be ways for player made game assets to be included as well, dragon lair decorations and structures seeming to be intended as the initial test run of this concept." ROFL, yeah DB also said there would be furniture for bipid housing. That review is like saying the interview on this site with DB is also all true. Just like if the one that did that DB interview does that critical review it would be all one sided, not fair at all.
Cmon chief, you know if the second review had slagged Horizons you would have said it WAS fair, whether the guy posted once or one million times.
I read both reviews and I think they are both fair. One is filled with a bit of cynicism and one is a player who obviously enjoys the game. Both go far in expressing some of the good and bad points of Horizons. It needs work, but what is there is a fun and refreshing game with a dedicated intelligent and kind community.
I love our genre, despite its faults. The same goes for Horizons.
Originally posted by D0ZeR ROFL, really a game with superior low pops is in no way comparable to games that can stand on own legs with much higher pops. Remember over 46k people can't be wrong about HZ only the few left playing it can. IMHO
So it would also follow that Britney Spears is a better musician than Bruce Springsteen because she outsells him nowadays?
We talked to David in IRC about furniture, and he said it is at the very top of the "pony list". The pony list is the list of things which they will work on when they are done the things they are currently working on.
He also said that there are are two areas which need to be worked on prior to furniture being released.
One is that furniture in HZ doesn't have much in the way of art assests, so, of course, they need to create a whole wackload of furniture models and skins. Tulga only has 2 (or maybe 3) artists right now, so this could take some time, given that they have to spread their time around and draw/model other things as well (right now the artists are working on lairs for the most part. Apparently the have finished the Tier 1 lairs (coding is finally finished on the lairs, except for making the UI easier to use), and are working on the others).
Secondly there is no instancing in HZ. Personally I consider this a good thing. But this means that unlike in other games with housing, every single thing in your house would load and render as you run by. Ouch. The current client has only mediorce performance at the best of times (although the client on blight loads and unloads resources MUCH better, giving a large (5-10) FPS jump in cities and towns over the current live client. WOOT!), so having a whole bunch of extra models load would NOT be a good thing. David says that before furniture is included into the game they will change houses so that items attached to the house (furniture, trophies, etc) will not appear unless you cross the threshold into the house. I suppose this is a semi-instance, but it will only apply to items linked to the house. This way having all that furniture around won't kill your FPS:).
He also said something about 'doors', but I wasn't certain if he was being literal (like real doors), or figurative (as in 'a boundry at the enterance to the house beyond which furniture will load').
Reading this thread has been very entertaining Same ol same ol people making fun of anyone and everyone who doesnt throw themselves at this game like it was God's gift to the world. Let me give you a couple real easy clues that anyone with an IQ greater than 10 can understand..
Is the game financially successful?
- Let me see, stopped paying their ISP 4 months into release, filed for bankruptcy 7 months into release, the "new" company (Tulga) had no cash to invest so solicited additional venture capitol from an old investor to keep them afloat.
- Staff cutbacks 1 month after release of almost 50% of the overall staff. again at 6 months more firings and after the bankruptcty and court ordered liquidation of Artifact Entertainment a mere handful of people remain as paid staff.
- According to David Bowman himself in a recent "interview" he claimed to have budgeted for a four million dollar development cycle and ended up using 18 million dollars. Since DB's budgeting was long after David Allen had anything to do with Artifact, where in the world did 18 million dolalrs go? Look at the screenshots here (http://www.aakrana.com) to see what a $500 MMO engine can do and compare it to Horizons.
Is the game popular with MMO players?
-Horizons released long before WoW and EQ2 and had almost a year to nestle up to it's fan base. In the 20 months since release Horizons has sold less than 36,000 copies and the current server population at peak playtime is less than 400 people.
-WoW sold almost 500,000 copies in it's first week of release. 3 months into retail it broke 1 million subscribers and currently boasts over 2 million copies sold. (As a side note WoW was developed for just over double what David claims to have spent in his 2 years at the wheel.)
-Asheron's Call 1, a game that is so dated by it's graphics most people wont play it, has 4 times as many servers each one with more players on at it's lowest times than Hz has on it's 2 servers during peak playtime.
So, what do I think of Horizons? Doesnt matter because you are the one that has to play the game. If you are intrested in it, read up on it. If you don't mind sponsoring a company who has lied to their creditors, walked away from contracts leaving investors holding the bag for millions of dollars worth of debt and repeatedly double billed players credit cards for months... Then go ahead and download the trial. But remember to cancel the same day you sign up because according to support "It can take a few days for the cancelation to go into effect."
As for the rabid fanbois? Hey, if someone likes the game great. I think based on the above information it's pretty clear those that "love" the game are not a good example of your average MMO player.
[quote]Originally posted by SLyxsith [b]- According to David Bowman himself in a recent "interview" he claimed to have budgeted for a four million dollar development cycle and ended up using 18 million dollars. Since DB's budgeting was long after David Allen had anything to do with Artifact, where in the world did 18 million dolalrs go? Look at the screenshots here ([url=http://www.aakrana.com]) to see what a $500 MMO engine can do and compare it to Horizons.[/b][/quote]
Get the facts correct please. 18 mill was the total expenditure, including all the money that David Allen wasted without even having a game client to show for it. At the end of DA's time at AE, all that was available was lots of concept artwork, pretty renders from 3DS Max / Maya, and no game. Once DA was kicked out, those who were left had to make the most of a tiny fraction of the overall original budget, and make an actual game out of it. Next time you want to try and reference an article or interview, make sure you present facts instead of showing that you're a better spin doctor than David Bowman.
BTW that 500 dollar mmo engine looks pretty poor. I've seen better looking Quake 2 maps. The models in the game don't compare in quality (model detail or skin finesse) to those in Horizons. The sky is poor, whereas in Horizons the sky looks realistic and has a seperate sky dome, sun source, moon layer, and cloud layer, all in all making for a very realistic looking sky. Quality of BSPs and textures in Horizons is infinitely better than the screenshots in that game you've linked to.
Admirable that they're able to make a game from a 500 dollar engine, but in terms of beauty, it doesn't compare.
Originally posted by SLyxsith Reading this thread has been very entertaining Same ol same ol people making fun of anyone and everyone who doesnt throw themselves at this game like it was God's gift to the world.
You mean Dozer?
I think there's one other guy too, feel free to get involved.
Then I think there's 3 people defending the game... If you get involved then we can even up the sides.
Why don't you losers just let us talk about our "silly little game", without the fussin and cryin of what a failure it is?
Actually when they were already in the process of pushing Allen out they only had 6 million invested into the game. The 18 million you are talking about was all on Bowmans shoulders and he wasted that money rather quickly way before beta ended. Next you will try and state it was Allen that ripped off all these other people just to rename company to Tulga.
Amazing to this day you guys keep putting blame on the current HZ on Allens shoulders, when the current game has nothing of what Allens design and vision had.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Reading this thread has been very entertaining Same ol same ol people making fun of anyone and everyone who doesnt throw themselves at this game like it was God's gift to the world. Let me give you a couple real easy clues that anyone with an IQ greater than 10 can understand..
Actually, I think people only get upset when it's the same old troll saying the same old year old rhetoric. Much like all the facts that you injected into your post. Ancient History.
As for the rabid fanbois? Hey, if someone likes the game great. I think based on the above information it's pretty clear those that "love" the game are not a good example of your average MMO player.
Just my 2 cents.
Let me clear something up that you don't seem to understand. You cannot tell a fanboi by the games they love, only fans. A fanboi is someone who loves their game and bashes any other game out there. Therefore calling me or anyone else who defends Horizons a fanboi is childish and innacurate, I would say beneath you but I don't know you very well yet, although by the tone of your post I know enough.
Fanbois are poeple who troll OTHER games forums, slagging and dissing with their ancient information back from when they played, or just repeating crap they hear from other fanbois. So the only fanbois here are the people who constantly bash Horizons, not the people who take the unpopular stance of trying to let people hear from people who are actually playing the game.
Horizons is a fun game, go play whatever game you think is better or get some fresh air or something. Your thesis here clearly shows you think FAR too much about a game that you dislike. Maybe do a google on obsessive compulsive disorder, all trolls who are reading this should.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Actually when they were already in the process of pushing Allen out they only had 6 million invested into the game. The 18 million you are talking about was all on Bowmans shoulders and he wasted that money rather quickly way before beta ended.
Do you have proof of this? Substantial evidence, or pure conjecture on your part? Feel free to provide links to financial documentation that proves your point of view. I wait in anticipation of your response.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Actually when they were already in the process of pushing Allen out they only had 6 million invested into the game. The 18 million you are talking about was all on Bowmans shoulders and he wasted that money rather quickly way before beta ended.
Do you have proof of this? Substantial evidence, or pure conjecture on your part? Feel free to provide links to financial documentation that proves your point of view. I wait in anticipation of your response.
Actually I do, but lets see the proof you have that Allen went thru 18 million. You guys brought it up first. so you can show your cards first.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by D0ZeR Actually I do, but lets see the proof you have that Allen went thru 18 million. You guys brought it up first. so you can show your cards first.
I thought 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours' was a school yard game ? Come on, post your evidence, I look forward to reviewing it and being proved wrong. At least when I get proved wrong I am able to accept the facts.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Actually I do, but lets see the proof you have that Allen went thru 18 million. You guys brought it up first. so you can show your cards first.
I thought 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours' was a school yard game ? Come on, post your evidence, I look forward to reviewing it and being proved wrong. At least when I get proved wrong I am able to accept the facts.
So I guess you can't show where Allen went thru 18 million. Yep it is like the school yard and you play it very well. Do a search on net you will come up with my facts. As for what you state is no where in print that Allen went thru 18 million. But it sure is with DB. In fact he has gone thru a lot more than 18 million and still has a broken game that has one of the worse engines a mmorpg has ever seen.
Funny I can get banned for calling someone a fanboi yet for some reason you HZ lovers can call people troll all you want. I find that very funny.
I also feel proud that I shall be known as troll when it comes to DB and his very bad game called HZ.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Unlike the fanboi's here I'm not around to start a flame war. As to the source of DB's 18 million statement, just read the "Interview" he gave Lepi on this very site. It was that last pseudo review that Lepi did in which David stated he had only budgeted for 4 million but ended up spending 18..
As for the facts being made up. I agree, they sound outlandish if WoW was able to develop with 40 million how could DB have spent 18 (After DAs supposed 6 mill that brings us up to 24 mill, daymn) and still ended up with the dog's breakfast you see today?
Tough to believe. I dunno, ask DB to check the books again maybe?
Originally posted by D0ZeR Do a search on net you will come up with my facts. As for what you state is no where in print that Allen went thru 18 million. But it sure is with DB. In fact he has gone thru a lot more than 18 million and still has a broken game that has one of the worse engines a mmorpg has ever seen.
Searched, only info I found was on the Pharoah Productions forums, which I put about as much faith in as I do the Horizons website. Where's the unbiased stuff when it's needed ?
If you're going to tell me that I can trust the info on the Pharoah Productions forums, then you're a bigger spin-doctor than David Bowman. That's saying something.
The thing is even DA can't be blamed for going thru the 6 million. That blame is at the feet of James Jones. After that it was all DB and how he helped to can DA and JJ.
I wonder why we never hear about CT anymore. You guys remember him, he was the boss (or suppose to be) of Tulga.
Only thing that can be blamed on DA which he admits too (unlike JJ or DB) is trusting the wrong people. But with all his faults I at least see a lot of Stormwalz (he made AC lore) in him and the vision he had. If he would of had the right people behind him this game could really be something. Just think how this game would be with the Unreal engine (which is what DA wanted).
Nope not on Pharoah site. In fact it is even referenced on HZ community site a few times.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
First you talk bad about the game, then you talk about who wasted more money. HZ has it's fans, I am one of them, playing the game for over 1,5 jears now. It has it's weaknesses, but one thing I really don't miss, that's the prolls loving to kill everything that's moving. The low number of players attracted to non-PvP games reflects the reality. So HZ that is concentrating on constructing will never have a playerbase like WoW that concentrats on destructing.
The question if HZ has a chance is answered simply. Since the playerbase is not that big, it all depends on Tulpa and how long they can run and develop it at a relatively low budget. Currently they make a good job.
Woot another fan I agree Safaia, I don't need the thronging masses in my game. The way it is right now suits me fine, its a relaxing fun time with amazingly good conversations with nice people and learning a brand new world that so far I just love!
And damned if that crafting system isn't the best ever created. At first I didn't like that mobs only dropped crafting mats. But after you fight for a good long while, you can just take all your mats and learn that trade (if necessary) process all your resources and get a bunch of tradeskill exp in your current skill. Love that they eliminated the tedium usually associated with crafting.
Originally posted by SLyxsith Unlike the fanboi's here I'm not around to start a flame war. As to the source of DB's 18 million statement, just read the "Interview" he gave Lepi on this very site. It was that last pseudo review that Lepi did in which David stated he had only budgeted for 4 million but ended up spending 18.. As for the facts being made up. I agree, they sound outlandish if WoW was able to develop with 40 million how could DB have spent 18 (After DAs supposed 6 mill that brings us up to 24 mill, daymn) and still ended up with the dog's breakfast you see today? Tough to believe. I dunno, ask DB to check the books again maybe?
The exact quote from the article is "The team had estimated Horizons would cost six million dollars to produce over a two-year cycle. In reality, it cost eighteen million dollars." There's no information there about whether that figure includes the DA era or not.
As for the estimate of how muchj it cost to produce WoW, please provide a link to a reputable source for that information. I am finding estimates of 20 million, 50 million, 40 million in various forums where people who probably really don't know are throwing numbers around, as we are doing here.
Even if you are right and Blizzard spent 40 million producing WoW -- so what? Horizons was planned to be as big an effort as WoW -- quoting again from the article you cited: "Atari and Artifact had estimated hundreds of thousands of subscribers, and despite an initial roar, that never materialized. " So the development budget needed to be big for an effort of that size.
Comments
I guess that is why the game has so many people hopping it up. All I see is a very very few doing that. A lot like the very low pops the game has.
But to each his own I guess.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
What David was referring to was things like having a monster skinning contest, or people who submit quests being able to provide art assets if they have the tools and talent for it, or Blue-Hasia's recolored hoard images & custom armor dyes. Those who have the desire and ability to create and animate monster meshes may be able to submit those down the line as well. TG is aware that some members of the player base have the ability and the desire to produce assets of several kinds which could be used in the game, and is willing to consider what those players have to offer.
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
Cmon chief, you know if the second review had slagged Horizons you would have said it WAS fair, whether the guy posted once or one million times.
I read both reviews and I think they are both fair. One is filled with a bit of cynicism and one is a player who obviously enjoys the game. Both go far in expressing some of the good and bad points of Horizons. It needs work, but what is there is a fun and refreshing game with a dedicated intelligent and kind community.
I love our genre, despite its faults. The same goes for Horizons.
We talked to David in IRC about furniture, and he said it is at the very top of the "pony list". The pony list is the list of things which they will work on when they are done the things they are currently working on.
He also said that there are are two areas which need to be worked on prior to furniture being released.
One is that furniture in HZ doesn't have much in the way of art assests, so, of course, they need to create a whole wackload of furniture models and skins. Tulga only has 2 (or maybe 3) artists right now, so this could take some time, given that they have to spread their time around and draw/model other things as well (right now the artists are working on lairs for the most part. Apparently the have finished the Tier 1 lairs (coding is finally finished on the lairs, except for making the UI easier to use), and are working on the others).
Secondly there is no instancing in HZ. Personally I consider this a good thing. But this means that unlike in other games with housing, every single thing in your house would load and render as you run by. Ouch. The current client has only mediorce performance at the best of times (although the client on blight loads and unloads resources MUCH better, giving a large (5-10) FPS jump in cities and towns over the current live client. WOOT!), so having a whole bunch of extra models load would NOT be a good thing. David says that before furniture is included into the game they will change houses so that items attached to the house (furniture, trophies, etc) will not appear unless you cross the threshold into the house. I suppose this is a semi-instance, but it will only apply to items linked to the house. This way having all that furniture around won't kill your FPS:).
He also said something about 'doors', but I wasn't certain if he was being literal (like real doors), or figurative (as in 'a boundry at the enterance to the house beyond which furniture will load').
Reading this thread has been very entertaining
Same ol same ol people making fun of anyone and everyone who doesnt throw themselves at this game like it was God's gift to the world. Let me give you a couple real easy clues that anyone with an IQ greater than 10 can understand..
Is the game financially successful?
- Let me see, stopped paying their ISP 4 months into release, filed for bankruptcy 7 months into release, the "new" company (Tulga) had no cash to invest so solicited additional venture capitol from an old investor to keep them afloat.
- Staff cutbacks 1 month after release of almost 50% of the overall staff. again at 6 months more firings and after the bankruptcty and court ordered liquidation of Artifact Entertainment a mere handful of people remain as paid staff.
- According to David Bowman himself in a recent "interview" he claimed to have budgeted for a four million dollar development cycle and ended up using 18 million dollars. Since DB's budgeting was long after David Allen had anything to do with Artifact, where in the world did 18 million dolalrs go? Look at the screenshots here (http://www.aakrana.com) to see what a $500 MMO engine can do and compare it to Horizons.
Is the game popular with MMO players?
-Horizons released long before WoW and EQ2 and had almost a year to nestle up to it's fan base. In the 20 months since release Horizons has sold less than 36,000 copies and the current server population at peak playtime is less than 400 people.
-WoW sold almost 500,000 copies in it's first week of release. 3 months into retail it broke 1 million subscribers and currently boasts over 2 million copies sold. (As a side note WoW was developed for just over double what David claims to have spent in his 2 years at the wheel.)
-Asheron's Call 1, a game that is so dated by it's graphics most people wont play it, has 4 times as many servers each one with more players on at it's lowest times than Hz has on it's 2 servers during peak playtime.
So, what do I think of Horizons? Doesnt matter because you are the one that has to play the game. If you are intrested in it, read up on it. If you don't mind sponsoring a company who has lied to their creditors, walked away from contracts leaving investors holding the bag for millions of dollars worth of debt and repeatedly double billed players credit cards for months... Then go ahead and download the trial. But remember to cancel the same day you sign up because according to support "It can take a few days for the cancelation to go into effect."
As for the rabid fanbois? Hey, if someone likes the game great. I think based on the above information it's pretty clear those that "love" the game are not a good example of your average MMO player.
Just my 2 cents.
Never been my goal to be average. I take this as a compliment.
[quote]Originally posted by SLyxsith
[b]- According to David Bowman himself in a recent "interview" he claimed to have budgeted for a four million dollar development cycle and ended up using 18 million dollars. Since DB's budgeting was long after David Allen had anything to do with Artifact, where in the world did 18 million dolalrs go? Look at the screenshots here ([url=http://www.aakrana.com]) to see what a $500 MMO engine can do and compare it to Horizons.[/b][/quote]
Get the facts correct please. 18 mill was the total expenditure, including all the money that David Allen wasted without even having a game client to show for it. At the end of DA's time at AE, all that was available was lots of concept artwork, pretty renders from 3DS Max / Maya, and no game. Once DA was kicked out, those who were left had to make the most of a tiny fraction of the overall original budget, and make an actual game out of it. Next time you want to try and reference an article or interview, make sure you present facts instead of showing that you're a better spin doctor than David Bowman.
BTW that 500 dollar mmo engine looks pretty poor. I've seen better looking Quake 2 maps. The models in the game don't compare in quality (model detail or skin finesse) to those in Horizons. The sky is poor, whereas in Horizons the sky looks realistic and has a seperate sky dome, sun source, moon layer, and cloud layer, all in all making for a very realistic looking sky. Quality of BSPs and textures in Horizons is infinitely better than the screenshots in that game you've linked to.
Admirable that they're able to make a game from a 500 dollar engine, but in terms of beauty, it doesn't compare.
You mean Dozer?
I think there's one other guy too, feel free to get involved.
Then I think there's 3 people defending the game... If you get involved then we can even up the sides.
Why don't you losers just let us talk about our "silly little game", without the fussin and cryin of what a failure it is?
Actually when they were already in the process of pushing Allen out they only had 6 million invested into the game. The 18 million you are talking about was all on Bowmans shoulders and he wasted that money rather quickly way before beta ended. Next you will try and state it was Allen that ripped off all these other people just to rename company to Tulga.
Amazing to this day you guys keep putting blame on the current HZ on Allens shoulders, when the current game has nothing of what Allens design and vision had.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Actually it is all in print and can be verifed. What you stated can't be.
But you have a good day now.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Do you have proof of this? Substantial evidence, or pure conjecture on your part? Feel free to provide links to financial documentation that proves your point of view. I wait in anticipation of your response.
Do you have proof of this? Substantial evidence, or pure conjecture on your part? Feel free to provide links to financial documentation that proves your point of view. I wait in anticipation of your response.
Actually I do, but lets see the proof you have that Allen went thru 18 million. You guys brought it up first. so you can show your cards first.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
I thought 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours' was a school yard game ? Come on, post your evidence, I look forward to reviewing it and being proved wrong. At least when I get proved wrong I am able to accept the facts.
I thought 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours' was a school yard game ? Come on, post your evidence, I look forward to reviewing it and being proved wrong. At least when I get proved wrong I am able to accept the facts.
So I guess you can't show where Allen went thru 18 million. Yep it is like the school yard and you play it very well. Do a search on net you will come up with my facts. As for what you state is no where in print that Allen went thru 18 million. But it sure is with DB. In fact he has gone thru a lot more than 18 million and still has a broken game that has one of the worse engines a mmorpg has ever seen.
Funny I can get banned for calling someone a fanboi yet for some reason you HZ lovers can call people troll all you want. I find that very funny.
I also feel proud that I shall be known as troll when it comes to DB and his very bad game called HZ.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Unlike the fanboi's here I'm not around to start a flame war. As to the source of DB's 18 million statement, just read the "Interview" he gave Lepi on this very site. It was that last pseudo review that Lepi did in which David stated he had only budgeted for 4 million but ended up spending 18..
As for the facts being made up. I agree, they sound outlandish if WoW was able to develop with 40 million how could DB have spent 18 (After DAs supposed 6 mill that brings us up to 24 mill, daymn) and still ended up with the dog's breakfast you see today?
Tough to believe. I dunno, ask DB to check the books again maybe?
Searched, only info I found was on the Pharoah Productions forums, which I put about as much faith in as I do the Horizons website. Where's the unbiased stuff when it's needed ?
If you're going to tell me that I can trust the info on the Pharoah Productions forums, then you're a bigger spin-doctor than David Bowman. That's saying something.
The thing is even DA can't be blamed for going thru the 6 million. That blame is at the feet of James Jones. After that it was all DB and how he helped to can DA and JJ.
I wonder why we never hear about CT anymore. You guys remember him, he was the boss (or suppose to be) of Tulga.
Only thing that can be blamed on DA which he admits too (unlike JJ or DB) is trusting the wrong people. But with all his faults I at least see a lot of Stormwalz (he made AC lore) in him and the vision he had. If he would of had the right people behind him this game could really be something. Just think how this game would be with the Unreal engine (which is what DA wanted).
Nope not on Pharoah site. In fact it is even referenced on HZ community site a few times.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
First you talk bad about the game, then you talk about who wasted more money.
HZ has it's fans, I am one of them, playing the game for over 1,5 jears now. It has it's weaknesses, but one thing I really don't miss, that's the prolls loving to kill everything that's moving. The low number of players attracted to non-PvP games reflects the reality. So HZ that is concentrating on constructing will never have a playerbase like WoW that concentrats on destructing.
The question if HZ has a chance is answered simply. Since the playerbase is not that big, it all depends on Tulpa and how long they can run and develop it at a relatively low budget. Currently they make a good job.
Woot another fan
I agree Safaia, I don't need the thronging masses in my game. The way it is right now suits me fine, its a relaxing fun time with amazingly good conversations with nice people and learning a brand new world that so far I just love!
And damned if that crafting system isn't the best ever created. At first I didn't like that mobs only dropped crafting mats. But after you fight for a good long while, you can just take all your mats and learn that trade (if necessary) process all your resources and get a bunch of tradeskill exp in your current skill. Love that they eliminated the tedium usually associated with crafting.
The exact quote from the article is "The team had estimated Horizons would cost six million dollars to produce over a two-year cycle. In reality, it cost eighteen million dollars." There's no information there about whether that figure includes the DA era or not.
As for the estimate of how muchj it cost to produce WoW, please provide a link to a reputable source for that information. I am finding estimates of 20 million, 50 million, 40 million in various forums where people who probably really don't know are throwing numbers around, as we are doing here.
Even if you are right and Blizzard spent 40 million producing WoW -- so what? Horizons was planned to be as big an effort as WoW -- quoting again from the article you cited: "Atari and Artifact had estimated hundreds of thousands of subscribers, and despite an initial roar, that never materialized. " So the development budget needed to be big for an effort of that size.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee