What's the current number who left WoW by now? More than 1million subs? 2million? 3Million?
how would we get through the day without wild exaggerations in doomsday threads?
We'll just have to find out next quarter report now would we?
But if 600k, 300k, subs loss for the last 2 quarters is an indication of a pattern, they would either lose no subs or 150k subs...but I definitely doubt they'll even bounce back up given that SWTOR is coming out just after the end of the next quarter.
As usual, many people are wearing their WoW Doomsday sandwhich boards as a result of Blizzards recent expansion announcement.
Let's assume for a minute that they some of the naysayers are right, that WoW is clearly now catering to a younger audience with the Panda's and Pokemon and the dumbed down talent system (This is NOT the place to argue this, so go elsewhere please).
Could this be a good thing for the genre? If they push out the more serious and mature players, where will they go? Will the infusion of new blood into existing MMO's breath new life into them? Does it increase the potential pool of customers for future MMO's?
This would push out the immature players more than the mature players. Mature people can likely see the reasons behind the new setting and new race.
More simply put, the people that would leave WoW over this are not the people most MMO players would want in their game.
By the way, the only sign of a WoW Doomsday is when they start merging servers because that's big indication of a large player base loss.
But Blizzard is smarter than that. You see, they will not merge servers since it will have a negative effect. Instead of merging servers, they added a "cross server" feature like the Dungeon/Raid Finders which acts as though the servers were merged.
Notice not one single PvE server is low, except the oceanic servers. The PvP servers that are Low have been low since their inception (notice how many are high too). Last night at 4am every single server was medium or higher except for 2 PvP ones, and the oceanic servers that are low now were all high/full.
Trying to say the WoW servers arent well populated is a pretty silly endeavor because they are the most populated servers overall in the industry (well besides EvEs one server set up)
What's the current number who left WoW by now? More than 1million subs? 2million? 3Million?
We know they lost 900k this year. Lets round that up to 1 million,a nd take the lowball estimate for NA subs, 4 million. Thats 25%
Now lets take Rift, the hot new game. Sold over 1 million copies, so 1 million people were subbed. trion wont release numbers, but most think probably around 400k is right, but well give them the benefit of the doubt and say 600k. Thats 40%
Show me a game, besides AoC, that hasnt lost a significant number of subs this year.
Its been a very bad year for the industry, but 2012 should be very good.
I don't see how the panda race is anymore childish then the Gnome or Goblin race.
Didn't we have this same discussion when the Blood Elf race came out?
I don't play WoW but I would have thought players would have embraced the panda race. One its an established race in warcraft lore, and two who wouldn't want to kick ass as a panda?
As usual, many people are wearing their WoW Doomsday sandwhich boards as a result of Blizzards recent expansion announcement.
Let's assume for a minute that they some of the naysayers are right, that WoW is clearly now catering to a younger audience with the Panda's and Pokemon and the dumbed down talent system (This is NOT the place to argue this, so go elsewhere please).
Could this be a good thing for the genre? If they push out the more serious and mature players, where will they go? Will the infusion of new blood into existing MMO's breath new life into them? Does it increase the potential pool of customers for future MMO's?
Sure its a good thing for the young, kids are going to love it, the problem is that as they might gain a few new young bucks at the same time chasing away the vets, lore junkies, so in a sense this a win lose expac.
I personally feel that they should of went for a balanced expac, Emerald Dream or somthing else to try and keep the vets at the same time aim for the new MMO gamers, I think they started to panic and droped the ball on this one.
I seriously feel Blizzard is trying to wear down WoW on purpose. They don't want their titan holding back their upcoming 'titan' MMO after all. Still I bet they will keep a lot of people over.
If it does have a mass exodus, yes it can be a good thing if its not what they are trying to do already (or at the very least try to purposely 'ween' people off wow), it could help them figure out how to steer their game. At the same time... it could always steer it the wrong way which has been happening more and more lately.
A number of adults I know have finally broken free of the WoW crack-like addict chains and moved on to other real life challenges (aka out of MMOs). Good for them and their families.
I don't see how the panda race is anymore childish then the Gnome or Goblin race.
Didn't we have this same discussion when the Blood Elf race came out?
I don't play WoW but I would have thought players would have embraced the panda race. One its an established race in warcraft lore, and two who wouldn't want to kick ass as a panda?
goblin and childish kind of dont fit together.... would you let your kids go buy toys at a black market? (no, not black friday... i said black market)... lol whats so childish about the goblins ilegal merchandising? hehe
but yeah pandas are ok also... WoW is old and its Great Lore has to keep evolving. Maybe next expansion after pandarias will bring something better while yet less shiny than the pandarian lands?
A number of adults I know have finally broken free of the WoW crack-like addict chains and moved on to other real life challenges (aka out of MMOs). Good for them and their families.
if those adults were addicts as you said, then good for them... otherwise theres nothing wrong with playing WoW and having a normal life outside mmos
A number of adults I know have finally broken free of the WoW crack-like addict chains and moved on to other real life challenges (aka out of MMOs). Good for them and their families.
If you don't like MMO's why are you on an MMO forum? Just curious.
Originally posted by pb1285n I don't see how the panda race is anymore childish then the Gnome or Goblin race.Didn't we have this same discussion when the Blood Elf race came out?I don't play WoW but I would have thought players would have embraced the panda race. One its an established race in warcraft lore, and two who wouldn't want to kick ass as a panda?
Apparently a lot of people. I'm the only person I known (besides my wife, who doesn't play WoW at all) who doesn't think it's stupid or cutesy. I like the idea and the Chinese aspects of the new zones. Add world pvp bosses and some dungeons where you don't have to try and get an organized group with tanks and healers and I'm all set. But then I don't really take any of these games too seriously.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think people are drastically underestimating the impact of SW:TOR, GW2 and D3. The last two games excite me more than anything since WOW was released, and the first is definitely grabbing a fair number of subscribers at release. My WOW life involves buying teh expac at midnight and playing for one or two months. I then get bored and come back for another month here and there until the next expac.
As much as I liked WC3, I wanted a Diablo MMO much more than a Warcraft MMO. There's no way I'll be subscribing to WOW while I'm enjoying D3. GW2 also doesn't have a subscription and will be a good game to play whenever I feel like it.
The games coming out in the next year are much better than the WOW killers in the past like AoC, Warhammer and Aion. These new games won't kill WOW but I think they are going to have a major impact on Blizzards WOW income in North America and Europe.
I don't think we'll see a mass exodus, but more like a steady leak of people jumping ship. In fact, I'm convinced Blizzard are already seeing this, not that they would ever tell us.
But yes, it could also be a good thing. Competition is good, and if WoW can capture the younger audience, I'd be happy to play a game that captures the (much) older audience. I am hoping SW:TOR will be a hit among the seniors of us, and I don't think it will be a WoW-killer, nor do I want it to be.
In many ways, I think games are better off trying to be really great for one specific audience, instead of being alright to every audience.
Not that I'm blaming Blizzard for wanting to collect bucket loads of money, of course.
For new games to succeed they really need a unique side to them. Something that makes players want to play that particular game over the many other mmos out there,
That's where Rift struggles at the moment. There are features which are different fron wow, but most of it feels like an updated wow expansion.
People who have played wow for years and now looking for something "new", don't really want that new game to be more or less the same as the one they've just come from.
Rift - "you're not in azeroth anymore" - maybe not, but with a lot of the game it sure felt like it.
That's all true Judge, but at the same time, I think we need to start accepting MMOs as a "success" even if they don't break WoW's spine, or get multi-millon subscribers.
I don't want to name examples, because the publisher's lack of candor makes it really hard to know which games are successful or failures from a financial point of view. But we know loads of MMOs manage to survive with low subscription numbers - are they a failure just because they're not played by "everyone" ?
Personally, I think not. In fact, I think I would prefer an MMO genre where 10 different games had 1 million subscribers each, instead of one with 10 million.
And I honestly think that is the future we are heading towards. I think DCUO can function, I think Rift can function, I'm sure WoW will stick around, I'm sure SW:TOR will do well, I'm sure GW2 will do well, and the list goes on.
I think the idea that WoW is the only "successful" MMO is the myth that needs to die first of all.
Toyota isn't the only successful car maker. Blizzard isn't the only successful MMO maker.
Totally agree in the wish to see a wider spread of well populated games rather than a single behemoth. At last it looks like there will be increasing competition out there.
However, if I was to announce I was launching a new fantasy mmo where you could be either a tank, dps, healer , questing mobs of goblins/ogres etc, levelling up, etc etc - I suggest the reaction would be along the lines of "what - another one?"
For new games to be long term success, rather than a short term look-see, they will need to have siginficant uniqueness away from the elephant in the room.
As much as I liked WC3, I wanted a Diablo MMO much more than a Warcraft MMO. There's no way I'll be subscribing to WOW while I'm enjoying D3. GW2 also doesn't have a subscription and will be a good game to play whenever I feel like it.
I remember before WoW came out. Hoping and wishing that this new MMORPG they were working on was going to be a Diablo MMORPG. I too was disappointed when they announced it would be in the WC universe. I didn't think it would be gritty enough. I was right. I did end up playing it for a while though after SWGs exodus.
I'm sure WoW lost some subs for this. but gained some too, I know I came back - only for a month though. I just wanted to get updated on some stuff and get some more alt's to higher level's before MoP. Until MoP I had no care in the world to get involved again. MoP looks amazing, can't wait.
This. The vast majority of WoW players aren't really "MMO players". They couldn't even tell you what an MMO was. They just play WoW.
This...until I got my roomie to play EVE the only MMORG she had ever played was WoW. Since the cancellation of Incarna and the announcement of Mist of Pandaria she is back to WoW. BTW she skilled all the way up into a Widow in EVE and was a kicking arse in PvP. However she was still more interseted in Incarna and was really hoping CCP would deliver a better all around gaming experience unfortuanately they decided otherwise. I joined her and am back to playing WoW as well.
It'snot really good or bad. Even if they lost 30% of their subs what would it really mean, that an aging game still has millions of players. Every few months someone basically asks this same question.
All I've noticed so far is people re-subbing due to all the headline attention wow has received lately. I showed my wife some MoP and she's considering playing, says it looks much more interesting now than before?
I don't know how Blizz does it? Won't be long an they'll be breaking all new sub records.
All I've noticed so far is people re-subbing due to all the headline attention wow has received lately. I showed my wife some MoP and she's considering playing, says it looks much more interesting now than before?
I don't know how Blizz does it? Won't be long an they'll be breaking all new sub records.
You are aware that WoW has lost over 1 million subs over the last year, right?
Comments
We'll just have to find out next quarter report now would we?
But if 600k, 300k, subs loss for the last 2 quarters is an indication of a pattern, they would either lose no subs or 150k subs...but I definitely doubt they'll even bounce back up given that SWTOR is coming out just after the end of the next quarter.
Ready for GW2!!!
This would push out the immature players more than the mature players. Mature people can likely see the reasons behind the new setting and new race.
More simply put, the people that would leave WoW over this are not the people most MMO players would want in their game.
Notice not one single PvE server is low, except the oceanic servers. The PvP servers that are Low have been low since their inception (notice how many are high too). Last night at 4am every single server was medium or higher except for 2 PvP ones, and the oceanic servers that are low now were all high/full.
Trying to say the WoW servers arent well populated is a pretty silly endeavor because they are the most populated servers overall in the industry (well besides EvEs one server set up)
We know they lost 900k this year. Lets round that up to 1 million,a nd take the lowball estimate for NA subs, 4 million. Thats 25%
Now lets take Rift, the hot new game. Sold over 1 million copies, so 1 million people were subbed. trion wont release numbers, but most think probably around 400k is right, but well give them the benefit of the doubt and say 600k. Thats 40%
Show me a game, besides AoC, that hasnt lost a significant number of subs this year.
Its been a very bad year for the industry, but 2012 should be very good.
How would Ethereals fit in with the story line they have planned? Im sure there will be a better place to put them in sometime in WoWs future
Didn't we have this same discussion when the Blood Elf race came out?
I don't play WoW but I would have thought players would have embraced the panda race. One its an established race in warcraft lore, and two who wouldn't want to kick ass as a panda?
Sure its a good thing for the young, kids are going to love it, the problem is that as they might gain a few new young bucks at the same time chasing away the vets, lore junkies, so in a sense this a win lose expac.
I personally feel that they should of went for a balanced expac, Emerald Dream or somthing else to try and keep the vets at the same time aim for the new MMO gamers, I think they started to panic and droped the ball on this one.
I seriously feel Blizzard is trying to wear down WoW on purpose. They don't want their titan holding back their upcoming 'titan' MMO after all. Still I bet they will keep a lot of people over.
If it does have a mass exodus, yes it can be a good thing if its not what they are trying to do already (or at the very least try to purposely 'ween' people off wow), it could help them figure out how to steer their game. At the same time... it could always steer it the wrong way which has been happening more and more lately.
goblin and childish kind of dont fit together.... would you let your kids go buy toys at a black market? (no, not black friday... i said black market)... lol whats so childish about the goblins ilegal merchandising? hehe
but yeah pandas are ok also... WoW is old and its Great Lore has to keep evolving. Maybe next expansion after pandarias will bring something better while yet less shiny than the pandarian lands?
if they do this on purpose then big shame on other develpers for not being capable of wearing down WoW themselves..... thats sad, man.... sad
if those adults were addicts as you said, then good for them... otherwise theres nothing wrong with playing WoW and having a normal life outside mmos
If you don't like MMO's why are you on an MMO forum? Just curious.
Apparently a lot of people. I'm the only person I known (besides my wife, who doesn't play WoW at all) who doesn't think it's stupid or cutesy. I like the idea and the Chinese aspects of the new zones. Add world pvp bosses and some dungeons where you don't have to try and get an organized group with tanks and healers and I'm all set. But then I don't really take any of these games too seriously.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think people are drastically underestimating the impact of SW:TOR, GW2 and D3. The last two games excite me more than anything since WOW was released, and the first is definitely grabbing a fair number of subscribers at release. My WOW life involves buying teh expac at midnight and playing for one or two months. I then get bored and come back for another month here and there until the next expac.
As much as I liked WC3, I wanted a Diablo MMO much more than a Warcraft MMO. There's no way I'll be subscribing to WOW while I'm enjoying D3. GW2 also doesn't have a subscription and will be a good game to play whenever I feel like it.
The games coming out in the next year are much better than the WOW killers in the past like AoC, Warhammer and Aion. These new games won't kill WOW but I think they are going to have a major impact on Blizzards WOW income in North America and Europe.
I don't think we'll see a mass exodus, but more like a steady leak of people jumping ship. In fact, I'm convinced Blizzard are already seeing this, not that they would ever tell us.
But yes, it could also be a good thing. Competition is good, and if WoW can capture the younger audience, I'd be happy to play a game that captures the (much) older audience. I am hoping SW:TOR will be a hit among the seniors of us, and I don't think it will be a WoW-killer, nor do I want it to be.
In many ways, I think games are better off trying to be really great for one specific audience, instead of being alright to every audience.
Not that I'm blaming Blizzard for wanting to collect bucket loads of money, of course.
For new games to succeed they really need a unique side to them. Something that makes players want to play that particular game over the many other mmos out there,
That's where Rift struggles at the moment. There are features which are different fron wow, but most of it feels like an updated wow expansion.
People who have played wow for years and now looking for something "new", don't really want that new game to be more or less the same as the one they've just come from.
Rift - "you're not in azeroth anymore" - maybe not, but with a lot of the game it sure felt like it.
That's all true Judge, but at the same time, I think we need to start accepting MMOs as a "success" even if they don't break WoW's spine, or get multi-millon subscribers.
I don't want to name examples, because the publisher's lack of candor makes it really hard to know which games are successful or failures from a financial point of view. But we know loads of MMOs manage to survive with low subscription numbers - are they a failure just because they're not played by "everyone" ?
Personally, I think not. In fact, I think I would prefer an MMO genre where 10 different games had 1 million subscribers each, instead of one with 10 million.
And I honestly think that is the future we are heading towards. I think DCUO can function, I think Rift can function, I'm sure WoW will stick around, I'm sure SW:TOR will do well, I'm sure GW2 will do well, and the list goes on.
I think the idea that WoW is the only "successful" MMO is the myth that needs to die first of all.
Toyota isn't the only successful car maker. Blizzard isn't the only successful MMO maker.
Totally agree in the wish to see a wider spread of well populated games rather than a single behemoth. At last it looks like there will be increasing competition out there.
However, if I was to announce I was launching a new fantasy mmo where you could be either a tank, dps, healer , questing mobs of goblins/ogres etc, levelling up, etc etc - I suggest the reaction would be along the lines of "what - another one?"
For new games to be long term success, rather than a short term look-see, they will need to have siginficant uniqueness away from the elephant in the room.
I remember before WoW came out. Hoping and wishing that this new MMORPG they were working on was going to be a Diablo MMORPG. I too was disappointed when they announced it would be in the WC universe. I didn't think it would be gritty enough. I was right. I did end up playing it for a while though after SWGs exodus.
I'm sure WoW lost some subs for this. but gained some too, I know I came back - only for a month though. I just wanted to get updated on some stuff and get some more alt's to higher level's before MoP. Until MoP I had no care in the world to get involved again. MoP looks amazing, can't wait.
This...until I got my roomie to play EVE the only MMORG she had ever played was WoW. Since the cancellation of Incarna and the announcement of Mist of Pandaria she is back to WoW. BTW she skilled all the way up into a Widow in EVE and was a kicking arse in PvP. However she was still more interseted in Incarna and was really hoping CCP would deliver a better all around gaming experience unfortuanately they decided otherwise. I joined her and am back to playing WoW as well.
It'snot really good or bad. Even if they lost 30% of their subs what would it really mean, that an aging game still has millions of players. Every few months someone basically asks this same question.
"The upcoming WoW Exodus: Good or bad?"
Exodus? Are you serious?
All I've noticed so far is people re-subbing due to all the headline attention wow has received lately. I showed my wife some MoP and she's considering playing, says it looks much more interesting now than before?
I don't know how Blizz does it? Won't be long an they'll be breaking all new sub records.
You are aware that WoW has lost over 1 million subs over the last year, right?