Every site is swamped with wow headlines, i think Blizz just hoodwinked ToR.
You're kidding right?
People are talking about it because it was so outlandish that few believed it was real...not because people are all like "OMG, this is all W0Wwas missing, now it's ep!c!"
I would even say the planned expansion has caused pandamonium...
Pandamonium is exactly what Blizzard wants. Make people forget about that other MMO right before release so people won't flock toward it. Blizzard has created a pandamic which has infected these forums, and most others (even the TOR forums). Once people get over their hate and realize Pandas are fine as a race, Blizzard will start raking in the cash again. Bioware's feeble attempt to pandamime (stretch, I know) Blizzards success won't succeed without Blizzard fighting back.
What other mmo? lol /jk
I can't believe the amount of people i know who have resubbed already. WoW is where all the excitement, controversy and drama is.
Every site is swamped with wow headlines, i think Blizz just hoodwinked ToR.
You're kidding right?
People are talking about it because it was so outlandish that few believed it was real...not because people are all like "OMG, this is all W0Wwas missing, now it's ep!c!"
I would even say the planned expansion has caused pandamonium...
Pandamonium is exactly what Blizzard wants. Make people forget about that other MMO right before release so people won't flock toward it. Blizzard has created a pandamic which has infected these forums, and most others (even the TOR forums). Once people get over their hate and realize Pandas are fine as a race, Blizzard will start raking in the cash again. Bioware's feeble attempt to pandamime (stretch, I know) Blizzards success won't succeed without Blizzard fighting back.
Pandas are fine as a race?! No lol. That may be your opinion, and one shared by others trying to justify this ridiculousness, but it's not "fine" in any way for some people.
The pandamonium (pandamic) is built up out of utter disgust, not excitement. As the title of this thread says, this is a golden egg being given to Bioware Blizzard Devs have had to go out of their way to tell people this wasn't a joke even lol.
As people have always suggested...the only one capable of beating Blizzard was themselves
Pandas are fine as a race?! No lol. That may be your opinion, and one shared by others trying to justify this ridiculousness, but it's not "fine" in any way for some people.
The pandamonium (pandamic) is built up out of utter disgust, not excitement. As the title of this thread says, this is a golden egg being given to Bioware Blizzard Devs have had to go out of their way to tell people this wasn't a joke even lol.
As people have always suggested...the only one capable of beating Blizzard was themselves
Says the poster with a hello kitty avatar, pink bow and all.
Hyperbole al you want. WoW will continue to be profitable after the few "mature, disgusted" drops of water in the ocean leave.
All the publicity from you and the other loud hurt people ( who really are just tired of the game), will only help blizzard, not beat them.
Moved to WoW forums since this is more about WoW than SWTOR. Please remember to follow the RoC when posting.
I did try and keep it out of the WoW forums because I didn't want to be accused or baiting or trolling players with my OP but I take your point it seams to have become more about WoW than TOR as its gone on which wasn't my initial intention. Do you think it may have been better in the general forums because it will cause more constination in a forum frequented by WoW fans?
Says the poster with a hello kitty avatar, pink bow and all.
Hyperbole al you want. WoW will continue to be profitable after the few "mature, disgusted" drops of water in the ocean leave.
All the publicity from you and the other loud hurt people ( who really are just tired of the game), will only help blizzard, not beat them.
You like it? I use that avatar to demonstrate just how ridiculous some ideas are...I'll work on a Panda one next.
You're right - once everyone who doesn't like the expansion or Pandas leaves, the qq'ing can stop and W0W will still make fi$t full$ of $. They have the subs to lose. People have near a decade invested in their W0W toons...not many will quit over Samuri Snakes or Kung Fu Pandas...but some will...and they'll go try SWTOR (or W0W 2.0 as some of you like to call it)...and for some, the setting will be to their liking and more 'adult like'.
And I don't share your opinion on publicity - BAD publicity is BAD...not good. If it were good, why didn't SWG's NGE do better?
Bottom line for me is...the OP is right. Blizzard just gave Bioware an early x-mas present. Blizzard COULD have released a race that was EPIC looking, one that most people would want to play and try and THAT would have hurt SWTOR. Instead, they release pandas...cool lol. I love Star Wars and I love that nothing in this new expansion will bring back W0W players who were hoping for something 'big' besides pandas.
WOW is doing badly for a few reasons, one of which is people are just tired of the same playstyle, the expansions past BC have all been bad. The changes to the game have dumbed it down and disinfranchised thinking players who want unique toons and varied pvp pve builds, which contradictory to the claims of cookie cutter players who cant think for themselves DID indeed exist as I can prove.
BUT here is my problem with your logic. TOR copies ALL of the elements of WOW that people don't like, mostly recent changes, Indeed TOR looks a lot more like Cataclysm than BC or Vanilla . So I dont think TOR wins because of WOW falling down, I think TOR falls down with WOW as will any WOW clone on the market free or ptp.
You like it? I use that avatar to demonstrate just how ridiculous some ideas are...I'll work on a Panda one next.
You're right - once everyone who doesn't like the expansion or Pandas leaves, the qq'ing can stop and W0W will still make fi$t full$ of $. They have the subs to lose. People have near a decade invested in their W0W toons...not many will quit over Samuri Snakes or Kung Fu Pandas...but some will...and they'll go try SWTOR (or W0W 2.0 as some of you like to call it)...and for some, the setting will be to their liking and more 'adult like'.
And I don't share your opinion on publicity - BAD publicity is BAD...not good. If it were good, why didn't SWG's NGE do better?
Bottom line for me is...the OP is right. Blizzard just gave Bioware an early x-mas present. Blizzard COULD have released a race that was EPIC looking, one that most people would want to play and try and THAT would have hurt SWTOR. Instead, they release pandas...cool lol. I love Star Wars and I love that nothing in this new expansion will bring back W0W players who were hoping for something 'big' besides pandas.
I do like it, in the sense that it gives me an idea of your level of thinking.
You don't have to share my opinion about publicity. However, there is much more to support my opinion than yours. For example: If you loved pandas, but didn't follow WoW, suddenly you read about "kiddie" pandas from someone like yourself. Said panda lover then thinks, "Wow who cares what that jerk thinks, I like pandas, I think I will play that game." Now, you could counter that with, "well what if you dislike pandas" and that would be a valid point., except, using the same "non WoW follower" as the initial person, you would have gained 1 customer.
I think whoever is going to play SWTOR, is doing so regardless of WoW xpac. It is quite a stretch to say, Blizzard is pushing them that way. They will lose subs and gain subs. This much you can call a fact. Beyond that, just opinion and guessing games.
And I don't share your opinion on publicity - BAD publicity is BAD...not good. If it were good, why didn't SWG's NGE do better?
I'm sorry I didn't adress this in my first response, but really? If you think by any stretch of the imagination that the introduction of a panda to WoW is even remotely comparable to the NGE, then surely you do not know what the NGE was.
And despite the NGE, and the mass exodus, the game continued to succeed (not quite as well). It is only in December it shuts down.
I think the argument should read : I think SOE is handing over most of their SWG playerbase in december with the shutting down of SWG. Kinda obvious and silly i know.
WOW is doing badly for a few reasons, one of which is people are just tired of the same playstyle, the expansions past BC have all been bad. The changes to the game have dumbed it down and disinfranchised thinking players who want unique toons and varied pvp pve builds, which contradictory to the claims of cookie cutter players who cant think for themselves DID indeed exist as I can prove.
BUT here is my problem with your logic. TOR copies ALL of the elements of WOW that people don't like, mostly recent changes, Indeed TOR looks a lot more like Cataclysm than BC or Vanilla . So I dont think TOR wins because of WOW falling down, I think TOR falls down with WOW as will any WOW clone on the market free or ptp.
I see it in a different way .MMOs are a genre much like first person shooters . You will get variations on the same thing for a long time to come . TOR isn't a WoW clone any more than WoW is an Everquest clone . Its gaming evolution ideas get built upon and old games like WoW steal ideas from other games . I believe they've implimented something like the Lotro skirimishes in MOP .
WoWs never been original but many people think it is simply because its the first mmo they've played . It would be a little like saying Half-life was the first of its genre and having no knowlage of Doom . For a long time everything was a Doom clone but that ended as time went on and other decent games came out . Much the same could happen with TOR .
If TOR is solid polished and fun it wont matter one iota to people whether its totally original or not . Sometimes like people like something familiar but different and more advanced than what they've been playing for the last few years .
I've always thought StarWars was going to be successful but the degree of success was always in question . The elephant in the room was always what Blizzard were going to do to combat the potential competition from TOR . With the annoucement of the Kung Fu Panda expanion yesterday which seams extremly weak in concept I think Blizzard have given it to TOR on a plate . If the game is as polished and fun as early reviews make it out to be the potential exodus from WoW to StarWars could now be on a epic scale . There must be howls of delight and relief in the Bioware offices at the huge miss step by Blizzard just as they are about to release TOR .
An early Christmas present indeed .
Lets look to the recent past: FFXIV had the golden launch window handed to them because they only had Cata & Rift as competion, and look what happened O_o
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
You gotta remember, the average wow player is far from your average hardcore gamer. Most are gonna be happy with the pandaran.
Good point on the average WoW player.
Swtor will do well my guess is a solid 3+ million subs after a years time,might even become the western markets largest pay to play MMO, but at the end of the day WoW will still be the largest Worldwide, they will still hold 6-10 million subs worldwide with 2-4 million being the western market.
From my understanding there are more Star Wars fans Worldwide then any other franchise, the six Star Wars films has totalled approximately $4.41 billion,making it the third-highest-grossing film series, behind only the Harry Potter and James Bond films. (not counting the expanded universe so think 10's of million of star wars fans)
I'm willing to bet WoW will still hold it's ground for a but not in the western market and as time goes by and as Swtor opens up to other parts of the World those "average players" will slowly start to make shift to Swtor.
And then 5 years later we will all bitch about how vanilla Swtor was soooooo much better and how Bioware is catering to the children and making the game easy mode, MMO's all go though this, it is by nature that we learn to hate dominance over time and start to root for underdog.
Loads of players have wanted Pandarens to be playable since vanilla. I suspect this will be a positive thing for the game overall.
He has a valid point I intend to check WoW out for MoP again after i've had some good time spent in ToR. Not for the "Pandas" but more for the Monk class I always wanted it to be the the game like in other fantasy MMO's.
You gotta remember, the average wow player is far from your average hardcore gamer. Most are gonna be happy with the pandaran.
Good point on the average WoW player.
Swtor will do well my guess is a solid 3+ million subs after a years time,might even become the western markets largest pay to play MMO, but at the end of the day WoW will still be the largest Worldwide, they will still hold 6-10 million subs worldwide with 2-4 million being the western market.
From my understanding there are more Star Wars fans Worldwide then any other franchise, the six Star Wars films has totalled approximately $4.41 billion,making it the third-highest-grossing film series, behind only the Harry Potter and James Bond films. (not counting the expanded universe so think 10's of million of star wars fans)
I'm willing to bet WoW will still hold it's ground for a but not in the western market and as time goes by and as Swtor opens up to other parts of the World those "average players" will slowly start to make shift to Swtor.
And then 5 years later we will all bitch about how vanilla Swtor was soooooo much better and how Bioware is catering to the children and making the game easy mode, MMO's all go though this, it is by nature that we learn to hate dominance over time and start to root for underdog.
I think your right it will sell over 3 million units but given its broken previous pre-records for a new mmo ( set 7 years ago by the original Warcraft ) I would hazzard a guess that its already nearly halfway to 3 million already . Also before anyone suggests it cancelling orders to try it out doesn't come into it simply because there is no guaranteed beta places only an early start . If you take the early start you've brought the game because you wont get it untill your credit cards been charged .
Also lets not forget StarWars the Phantom Menace 3D hits the cinemas in February 2012 and even though its not the strongest of the movies it will be a big deal at the box office and a new generation of fans will be introduced to the franchise .
Just at the time a new StarWars mmos taking off . Can you imagine how many school children will be talking about it in february and suddenly there could be a pack mentality of lets drop WoW for a while and see what this new StarWars games like seeing as its the new cool . Peer pressure can work against WoW as well as for it .
If you loved pandas, but didn't follow WoW, suddenly you read about "kiddie" pandas from someone like yourself. Said panda lover then thinks, "Wow who cares what that jerk thinks, I like pandas, I think I will play that game."
I think whoever is going to play SWTOR, is doing so regardless of WoW xpac. It is quite a stretch to say, Blizzard is pushing them that way. They will lose subs and gain subs. This much you can call a fact. Beyond that, just opinion and guessing games.
Really?! You REALLY think someone who loves pandas will start playing W0W now that they've added them? Come on...you know there's not even a TINY bit of truth to that. If there were how it worked, WoP (World of Puppies) would be the #1 game, followed by WoK (World of Kittens).
And you're correct in the 2nd part...the people that were going to leave, would have with or without pandas I'm sure...but you're missing my point so I'll try to state it again.
SWTOR is one of the most highly anticipated MMOs in history - they'll easily sell 2Mil the 1st week. In the world of MMOs, only ONE game stands above EVERY OTHER game EVER made...W0W! W0W is the king. W0W is the one every company wishes they were. The saying 'ONLY W0W can beat W0W' is VERY true. SWTOR isn't worried about GW2 or DCUO or SWG or lotro or any other MMO...they're worried about W0W! Every MMO developer fears W0W.
If they had wanted, W0W could have released an expansion that would have decimated SWTOR. I'm not familiar with W0W lore, but I'm sure that had they released 2 new adventure areas, a PvP zone and say 2-3 COOL races (yes, 'cool' is subjective, but pandas aren't quite as 'cool' as you think), they could have had the expansion hype meter off the charts.
Instead of excitement, Blizzard finds itself in a position of having to assure people that this expansion is NOT a joke. Had Blizzard released something that made the majority of it's players go "OMG HOLY SH!T I GOTTA TRY THAT", it would have HURT SWTOR...but pandas?! Yeah...the massive kung-fu panda crowd wasn't exactly a threat to SWTOR...W0W loyalists and fans were - because THEY are the same customers SWTOR wants.
So when I say I agree that Blizzard has handed Bioware a golden egg, I mean they did so in that the ONE expansion SWTOR feared most of all, turned out to just be flipping pandas.
If you loved pandas, but didn't follow WoW, suddenly you read about "kiddie" pandas from someone like yourself. Said panda lover then thinks, "Wow who cares what that jerk thinks, I like pandas, I think I will play that game."
I think whoever is going to play SWTOR, is doing so regardless of WoW xpac. It is quite a stretch to say, Blizzard is pushing them that way. They will lose subs and gain subs. This much you can call a fact. Beyond that, just opinion and guessing games.
Really?! You REALLY think someone who loves pandas will start playing W0W now that they've added them? Come on...you know there's not even a TINY bit of truth to that. If there were how it worked, WoP (World of Puppies) would be the #1 game, followed by WoK (World of Kittens).
And you're correct in the 2nd part...the people that were going to leave, would have with or without pandas I'm sure...but you're missing my point so I'll try to state it again.
SWTOR is one of the most highly anticipated MMOs in history - they'll easily sell 2Mil the 1st week. In the world of MMOs, only ONE game stands above EVERY OTHER game EVER made...W0W! W0W is the king. W0W is the one every company wishes they were. The saying 'ONLY W0W can beat W0W' is VERY true. SWTOR isn't worried about GW2 or DCUO or SWG or lotro or any other MMO...they're worried about W0W! Every MMO developer fears W0W.
If they had wanted, W0W could have released an expansion that would have decimated SWTOR. I'm not familiar with W0W lore, but I'm sure that had they released 2 new adventure areas, a PvP zone and say 2-3 COOL races (yes, 'cool' is subjective, but pandas aren't quite as 'cool' as you think), they could have had the expansion hype meter off the charts.
Instead of excitement, Blizzard finds itself in a position of having to assure people that this expansion is NOT a joke. Had Blizzard released something that made the majority of it's players go "OMG HOLY SH!T I GOTTA TRY THAT", it would have HURT SWTOR...but pandas?! Yeah...the massive kung-fu panda crowd wasn't exactly a threat to SWTOR...W0W loyalists and fans were - because THEY are the same customers SWTOR wants.
So when I say I agree that Blizzard has handed Bioware a golden egg, I mean they did so in that the ONE expansion SWTOR feared most of all, turned out to just be flipping pandas.
To answer your first thought. Absolutely. Do you do things you like or dislike? Do you try new things with appealing content or content you dislike? Silly to say that someone who wants to play a panda, would not be enticed by the addition. As far as your game ideas, I bet you any day of the week, both of those ideas would be profitable. Tonnes of people love puppies and kittens. Are you really thinking this through? Or just thinking all the rest of the world, has the same likes and dislikes as you?
I'm not sure where you get all these ideas about blizzards "fear" or "golden egg". It is really stretching to say the least. Bottom line: If you are tired of WoW or turned off by the Xpac, it does not mean you will head directly to SWTOR. There are many other fantasy games that would be more appealing to a fantasy player than a science fiction game. Perhaps you do not see the distinction between these two (blnded by your own opinion). And yes, you can like both fantasy and science fiction at the same time.
I'm not sure where you get all these ideas about blizzards "fear" or "golden egg". It is really stretching to say the least. Bottom line: If you are tired of WoW or turned off by the Xpac, it does not mean you will head directly to SWTOR. There are many other fantasy games that would be more appealing to a fantasy player than a science fiction game. Perhaps you do not see the distinction between these two (blnded by your own opinion). And yes, you can like both fantasy and science fiction at the same time.
Read it again because obviously you didn't.
I never said Blizzard is scared, I said EVERY other MMO developer in the world fears Blizzard. If Blizzard releases an expansion around the time your game comes out, you're **edit**ed!
This has nothing to do with fantasy or sci-fi - it has to do with excitement for W0W.
Let's be realistice here. Bioware first, is trying to capture the immense Star Wars Fanbase. Second, they want to bring in all those that loved KOTOR. These two alone in my opinion will turn TOR into a massive success without ever getting players from any other game to make the so called switch.
I don't think i have ever heard one Bioware developer say outright, they want to take down or kill WOW. I heard a lot about trying to emulate the MMO business savvy that Blizzard has in the genre, but that's it. I actually believe what Bioware said was that, if they create a mmorpg that is highly polished and has deep content, that doesn't veer off to far from what mmo players are used to and take what has been done and make it better, they could see the game bringing in even more people into the mmo genre and it could see numbers that could rival WOW.
With that being said though. You have a certain amount of mmo players that will always jump from mmo to mmo just becasue they always want to be involved with the next and newest thing to come out. I don't doubt that TOR will get and influx of players from other games for whatever reason. To say that just because this newest xpac that contains things that some deem foolish and kiddie and that will cause a mass WOW exodus seems to be stretching it a bit too much.
TOR will have it's playerbase and WOW will continue with who they have. If both games can coexist and be popular then that's a win in my book.
If you loved pandas, but didn't follow WoW, suddenly you read about "kiddie" pandas from someone like yourself. Said panda lover then thinks, "Wow who cares what that jerk thinks, I like pandas, I think I will play that game."
I think whoever is going to play SWTOR, is doing so regardless of WoW xpac. It is quite a stretch to say, Blizzard is pushing them that way. They will lose subs and gain subs. This much you can call a fact. Beyond that, just opinion and guessing games.
Really?! You REALLY think someone who loves pandas will start playing W0W now that they've added them? Come on...you know there's not even a TINY bit of truth to that. If there were how it worked, WoP (World of Puppies) would be the #1 game, followed by WoK (World of Kittens).
And you're correct in the 2nd part...the people that were going to leave, would have with or without pandas I'm sure...but you're missing my point so I'll try to state it again.
SWTOR is one of the most highly anticipated MMOs in history - they'll easily sell 2Mil the 1st week. In the world of MMOs, only ONE game stands above EVERY OTHER game EVER made...W0W! W0W is the king. W0W is the one every company wishes they were. The saying 'ONLY W0W can beat W0W' is VERY true. SWTOR isn't worried about GW2 or DCUO or SWG or lotro or any other MMO...they're worried about W0W! Every MMO developer fears W0W.
If they had wanted, W0W could have released an expansion that would have decimated SWTOR. I'm not familiar with W0W lore, but I'm sure that had they released 2 new adventure areas, a PvP zone and say 2-3 COOL races (yes, 'cool' is subjective, but pandas aren't quite as 'cool' as you think), they could have had the expansion hype meter off the charts.
Instead of excitement, Blizzard finds itself in a position of having to assure people that this expansion is NOT a joke. Had Blizzard released something that made the majority of it's players go "OMG HOLY SH!T I GOTTA TRY THAT", it would have HURT SWTOR...but pandas?! Yeah...the massive kung-fu panda crowd wasn't exactly a threat to SWTOR...W0W loyalists and fans were - because THEY are the same customers SWTOR wants.
So when I say I agree that Blizzard has handed Bioware a golden egg, I mean they did so in that the ONE expansion SWTOR feared most of all, turned out to just be flipping pandas.
Amen to that . Very well put . I do wonder though if the MOP is actually real still sometimes and whether its a ruse to hide the true nature of the new expansion . I still can't believe its real and not some massive hoax . I think the best thing Blizzard could do is have a rethink about all this and maybe cancel it and pull out the stops and come up with something everyone can get behind and support . Rushing out such an expansion to try and combat the release of StarWars would be worse than having no expansion at all .Once this is done there will be no going back for WoW and they will have killed the cash cow and worse they will have done it to themselves .
Sheer madness born out of complacency,arrogance and greed .
The thing is Blizzard might actually need a faliure to get some of it hunger back so in the long term after all the people responsible for it lose thier jobs what you might have is a company under new leadership that bring back some quality to Warcraft again .
I think WoW is about to go through quite a tough period but you may get a leaner ,fitter and more interesting game when the storm settles and the axe has fallen on the likes of Ghostcrawler .
I would start thinking about looking for a new job Greg . Your days are numberd !
I'm not sure where you get all these ideas about blizzards "fear" or "golden egg". It is really stretching to say the least. Bottom line: If you are tired of WoW or turned off by the Xpac, it does not mean you will head directly to SWTOR. There are many other fantasy games that would be more appealing to a fantasy player than a science fiction game. Perhaps you do not see the distinction between these two (blnded by your own opinion). And yes, you can like both fantasy and science fiction at the same time.
Read it again because obviously you didn't.
I never said Blizzard is scared, I said EVERY other MMO developer in the world fears Blizzard. If Blizzard releases an expansion around the time your game comes out, you're **edit**ed!
This has nothing to do with fantasy or sci-fi - it has to do with excitement for W0W.
It's funny you pointed out the one error I made. I even noticed right after I posted, but I said " he won't be that petty and ignore the rest", oh the misplaced faith in humanity
I understood you said everyone fears blizzard, but again, it is just your opinion. How many game companies have you talked to directly, thats say they "fear" blizzard?
Bioware are going for "Star Wars" fans. If that includes WoW players, all the better. They weren't looking for "mature" ( very loose term for all you panda dislikers) disgruntled emotionally (panda) damaged individuals..
Perhaps you should let the WoW obsession go. Not everything is dependent or affected by WoW. There are other things besides WoW. Millions of people play other games, but don't play WoW. Don't be so narrow-minded.
You gotta remember, the average wow player is far from your average hardcore gamer. Most are gonna be happy with the pandaran.
I think you'll probably find there really isn't an average WoW player . You could argue they would be 12 years old and are casual gamers but I think thats far from the truth . With 12 million people theres going to a huge range of ages and types playing the game .
You have to ask yourself who it is Pandas would appeal to . The 12 year olds or around that age tend to want to be part of a crowd so if peer pressure says Pandas are cool then they are cool . I have huge doubts though the average 12 year old wants to play a Panda ( most of them want to be seen to be growing up ) . Adults who have got over those hang ups of growing up would be more likly to play a Panda than a 12 year old but realistically it wont appeal to the majority of them . Especially the men (ok I'm sure someone will say I'm a man but I'm manly enough to not worry about it. Thats cool but your also probably not the average man or WoW player . Some men keep teddy bears into adult hood and play with toy soldiers while they would defend it to thier eyeteeth most of us would view them as immature . Although they wouldn't see it as such . Women on the other hand like playing cuter stuff or do they ? . I've a 40 year old friend who plays WoW whos looking forward to the Pandas but she also collect china minature lambs has never married and has 7 cats . So I'm not sure how average she is either . I know other female WoW player that really don't like this for the same reason thier male counterparts dont .
It doesn't fit .
So what groups will this really appeal to en mass. Well logically it'll be very young players -10 years old and given the eastern theme also the Asian market .
So perhaps if Blizzard sees the average WoW player is younger than ten or percieved average Asian player .I think they are sorely mistaken .
Its pretty much impossible to catagorise anyone . All you have to look at is what the reaction to this expansion has been in these forums and all over the web .
Is Mists of Pandaria a good idea ?
The answer seems to be pretty much universal NO . ( a few ardent WoW fans aside ) .
I hope blizzard didn't "hand it to Starwars on a plate" as no one wants the WoW community to come over to Starwars.
Yes, there will be many players coming over from there but hopefully it's not the ones who have made WoW the worse community in all of gaming.
The upcoming expansion seems to be geared for grade schoolers and while I'm not putting down kids as there are many more mature then many adults. Hopefully, only mature minded people come to starwars and the rest stay in WoW. After all, the expansion is perfect for them. You don't need too much of a brain to play it as wow is being simplified to it's lowest form.
You have a cartoon of Kung-fu Panda and then there's a Pokeman style battle for pets. Isn't this cute? Talents points will also be changed to accomodate the watered down game. And by the time blizzard is done, all you need to do is use one finger to play the entire game.
Don't look now but I heard Loony Toons has been in negotiations with Blizzard for an expansion with Tweety Bird and Slyvester the cat. I bet they'll make a perfect pair in an upcoming patch, too.
I'm not a 12 year old but I play WoW and have from the start. I've ventured into other games as well but always come back to WoW because it has the content my play style requires. In fact, I have always intended to come back to WoW using other games as a break. Sometimes I would get carried away and swear off WoW but I knew that unless the new game really rocked I would be back.
This is about to change.
I will play SWTOR. I might like it and I might not but at this point I doubt I will come back to WoW. The KungFu Panda thing is about as hokie as I can think of ... and I've seen some hokie stuff. Making the game even more simple also doesn't cut it. I'm still in game, but I haven't logged on for quite a while now and I will probably let it just run out.
Now, SWTOR may or may not be a great game but that changes nothing. It has potential and if it does byte then I can move on to a ton of other games out there. Either way, WoW is just about over for me. From what I'm hearing I'm not the only one. What does this mean? Not a damn thing ... I don't have private talks with every player ... but I think WoW has made a mistake. They could have went with the emerald dream and things would've moved along just fine but the Panda thing is just too romper room for me.
I can't agree with the OP that WoW just handed SWTOR the world but they have handed SWTOR me.
I didn't realise how blatent the kung-fu Panda ripp off was untill now . I just watched the mmo report which was from Blizzcon and had some footage from MOP . It looked to me as if it could have been lifted directly out of the movie . I wonder if theres even a chance of a lawsuit over ths now .
Lore aside I'm wondering what law will say about this .
Blizzard made a massive miscalculation by not understanding social circumstances.
As an adult male, it doesn't make me immature to play a Panda in a fantasy game for fun. I am still an adult and I have already defined who I am in my life so I am not insecure. But for 10-12 year olds, who are growing up they do NOT want to be associated with a kiddy Panda because they are trying to carve out who they are to themselves and circle of friends.
Being part of trends with acitivites, clothing, etc defines who these 10-12 year olds are, not individiual selves until they learn the truth. Thus, if Panda's are not perceived cool, they will reject it outright due to peer pressure.
Comments
What other mmo? lol /jk
I can't believe the amount of people i know who have resubbed already. WoW is where all the excitement, controversy and drama is.
Well put grawss.
Pandas are fine as a race?! No lol. That may be your opinion, and one shared by others trying to justify this ridiculousness, but it's not "fine" in any way for some people.
The pandamonium (pandamic) is built up out of utter disgust, not excitement. As the title of this thread says, this is a golden egg being given to Bioware
Blizzard Devs have had to go out of their way to tell people this wasn't a joke even lol.
As people have always suggested...the only one capable of beating Blizzard was themselves
Says the poster with a hello kitty avatar, pink bow and all.
Hyperbole al you want. WoW will continue to be profitable after the few "mature, disgusted" drops of water in the ocean leave.
All the publicity from you and the other loud hurt people ( who really are just tired of the game), will only help blizzard, not beat them.
I did try and keep it out of the WoW forums because I didn't want to be accused or baiting or trolling players with my OP but I take your point it seams to have become more about WoW than TOR as its gone on which wasn't my initial intention. Do you think it may have been better in the general forums because it will cause more constination in a forum frequented by WoW fans?
You like it? I use that avatar to demonstrate just how ridiculous some ideas are...I'll work on a Panda one next.
You're right - once everyone who doesn't like the expansion or Pandas leaves, the qq'ing can stop and W0W will still make fi$t full$ of $. They have the subs to lose. People have near a decade invested in their W0W toons...not many will quit over Samuri Snakes or Kung Fu Pandas...but some will...and they'll go try SWTOR (or W0W 2.0 as some of you like to call it)...and for some, the setting will be to their liking and more 'adult like'.
And I don't share your opinion on publicity - BAD publicity is BAD...not good. If it were good, why didn't SWG's NGE do better?
Bottom line for me is...the OP is right. Blizzard just gave Bioware an early x-mas present. Blizzard COULD have released a race that was EPIC looking, one that most people would want to play and try and THAT would have hurt SWTOR. Instead, they release pandas...cool lol. I love Star Wars and I love that nothing in this new expansion will bring back W0W players who were hoping for something 'big' besides pandas.
WOW is doing badly for a few reasons, one of which is people are just tired of the same playstyle, the expansions past BC have all been bad. The changes to the game have dumbed it down and disinfranchised thinking players who want unique toons and varied pvp pve builds, which contradictory to the claims of cookie cutter players who cant think for themselves DID indeed exist as I can prove.
BUT here is my problem with your logic. TOR copies ALL of the elements of WOW that people don't like, mostly recent changes, Indeed TOR looks a lot more like Cataclysm than BC or Vanilla . So I dont think TOR wins because of WOW falling down, I think TOR falls down with WOW as will any WOW clone on the market free or ptp.
I do like it, in the sense that it gives me an idea of your level of thinking.
You don't have to share my opinion about publicity. However, there is much more to support my opinion than yours. For example: If you loved pandas, but didn't follow WoW, suddenly you read about "kiddie" pandas from someone like yourself. Said panda lover then thinks, "Wow who cares what that jerk thinks, I like pandas, I think I will play that game." Now, you could counter that with, "well what if you dislike pandas" and that would be a valid point., except, using the same "non WoW follower" as the initial person, you would have gained 1 customer.
I think whoever is going to play SWTOR, is doing so regardless of WoW xpac. It is quite a stretch to say, Blizzard is pushing them that way. They will lose subs and gain subs. This much you can call a fact. Beyond that, just opinion and guessing games.
I'm sorry I didn't adress this in my first response, but really? If you think by any stretch of the imagination that the introduction of a panda to WoW is even remotely comparable to the NGE, then surely you do not know what the NGE was.
And despite the NGE, and the mass exodus, the game continued to succeed (not quite as well). It is only in December it shuts down.
I think the argument should read : I think SOE is handing over most of their SWG playerbase in december with the shutting down of SWG. Kinda obvious and silly i know.
I see it in a different way .MMOs are a genre much like first person shooters . You will get variations on the same thing for a long time to come . TOR isn't a WoW clone any more than WoW is an Everquest clone . Its gaming evolution ideas get built upon and old games like WoW steal ideas from other games . I believe they've implimented something like the Lotro skirimishes in MOP .
WoWs never been original but many people think it is simply because its the first mmo they've played . It would be a little like saying Half-life was the first of its genre and having no knowlage of Doom . For a long time everything was a Doom clone but that ended as time went on and other decent games came out . Much the same could happen with TOR .
If TOR is solid polished and fun it wont matter one iota to people whether its totally original or not . Sometimes like people like something familiar but different and more advanced than what they've been playing for the last few years .
Lets look to the recent past: FFXIV had the golden launch window handed to them because they only had Cata & Rift as competion, and look what happened O_o
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
You gotta remember, the average wow player is far from your average hardcore gamer. Most are gonna be happy with the pandaran.
Good point on the average WoW player.
Swtor will do well my guess is a solid 3+ million subs after a years time,might even become the western markets largest pay to play MMO, but at the end of the day WoW will still be the largest Worldwide, they will still hold 6-10 million subs worldwide with 2-4 million being the western market.
From my understanding there are more Star Wars fans Worldwide then any other franchise, the six Star Wars films has totalled approximately $4.41 billion,making it the third-highest-grossing film series, behind only the Harry Potter and James Bond films. (not counting the expanded universe so think 10's of million of star wars fans)
I'm willing to bet WoW will still hold it's ground for a but not in the western market and as time goes by and as Swtor opens up to other parts of the World those "average players" will slowly start to make shift to Swtor.
And then 5 years later we will all bitch about how vanilla Swtor was soooooo much better and how Bioware is catering to the children and making the game easy mode, MMO's all go though this, it is by nature that we learn to hate dominance over time and start to root for underdog.
He has a valid point I intend to check WoW out for MoP again after i've had some good time spent in ToR. Not for the "Pandas" but more for the Monk class I always wanted it to be the the game like in other fantasy MMO's.
I think your right it will sell over 3 million units but given its broken previous pre-records for a new mmo ( set 7 years ago by the original Warcraft ) I would hazzard a guess that its already nearly halfway to 3 million already . Also before anyone suggests it cancelling orders to try it out doesn't come into it simply because there is no guaranteed beta places only an early start . If you take the early start you've brought the game because you wont get it untill your credit cards been charged .
Also lets not forget StarWars the Phantom Menace 3D hits the cinemas in February 2012 and even though its not the strongest of the movies it will be a big deal at the box office and a new generation of fans will be introduced to the franchise .
Just at the time a new StarWars mmos taking off . Can you imagine how many school children will be talking about it in february and suddenly there could be a pack mentality of lets drop WoW for a while and see what this new StarWars games like seeing as its the new cool . Peer pressure can work against WoW as well as for it .
Really?! You REALLY think someone who loves pandas will start playing W0W now that they've added them? Come on...you know there's not even a TINY bit of truth to that. If there were how it worked, WoP (World of Puppies) would be the #1 game, followed by WoK (World of Kittens).
And you're correct in the 2nd part...the people that were going to leave, would have with or without pandas I'm sure...but you're missing my point so I'll try to state it again.
SWTOR is one of the most highly anticipated MMOs in history - they'll easily sell 2Mil the 1st week. In the world of MMOs, only ONE game stands above EVERY OTHER game EVER made...W0W! W0W is the king. W0W is the one every company wishes they were. The saying 'ONLY W0W can beat W0W' is VERY true. SWTOR isn't worried about GW2 or DCUO or SWG or lotro or any other MMO...they're worried about W0W! Every MMO developer fears W0W.
If they had wanted, W0W could have released an expansion that would have decimated SWTOR. I'm not familiar with W0W lore, but I'm sure that had they released 2 new adventure areas, a PvP zone and say 2-3 COOL races (yes, 'cool' is subjective, but pandas aren't quite as 'cool' as you think), they could have had the expansion hype meter off the charts.
Instead of excitement, Blizzard finds itself in a position of having to assure people that this expansion is NOT a joke. Had Blizzard released something that made the majority of it's players go "OMG HOLY SH!T I GOTTA TRY THAT", it would have HURT SWTOR...but pandas?! Yeah...the massive kung-fu panda crowd wasn't exactly a threat to SWTOR...W0W loyalists and fans were - because THEY are the same customers SWTOR wants.
So when I say I agree that Blizzard has handed Bioware a golden egg, I mean they did so in that the ONE expansion SWTOR feared most of all, turned out to just be flipping pandas.
To answer your first thought. Absolutely. Do you do things you like or dislike? Do you try new things with appealing content or content you dislike? Silly to say that someone who wants to play a panda, would not be enticed by the addition. As far as your game ideas, I bet you any day of the week, both of those ideas would be profitable. Tonnes of people love puppies and kittens. Are you really thinking this through? Or just thinking all the rest of the world, has the same likes and dislikes as you?
I'm not sure where you get all these ideas about blizzards "fear" or "golden egg". It is really stretching to say the least. Bottom line: If you are tired of WoW or turned off by the Xpac, it does not mean you will head directly to SWTOR. There are many other fantasy games that would be more appealing to a fantasy player than a science fiction game. Perhaps you do not see the distinction between these two (blnded by your own opinion). And yes, you can like both fantasy and science fiction at the same time.
Read it again because obviously you didn't.
I never said Blizzard is scared, I said EVERY other MMO developer in the world fears Blizzard. If Blizzard releases an expansion around the time your game comes out, you're **edit**ed!
This has nothing to do with fantasy or sci-fi - it has to do with excitement for W0W.
Let's be realistice here. Bioware first, is trying to capture the immense Star Wars Fanbase. Second, they want to bring in all those that loved KOTOR. These two alone in my opinion will turn TOR into a massive success without ever getting players from any other game to make the so called switch.
I don't think i have ever heard one Bioware developer say outright, they want to take down or kill WOW. I heard a lot about trying to emulate the MMO business savvy that Blizzard has in the genre, but that's it. I actually believe what Bioware said was that, if they create a mmorpg that is highly polished and has deep content, that doesn't veer off to far from what mmo players are used to and take what has been done and make it better, they could see the game bringing in even more people into the mmo genre and it could see numbers that could rival WOW.
With that being said though. You have a certain amount of mmo players that will always jump from mmo to mmo just becasue they always want to be involved with the next and newest thing to come out. I don't doubt that TOR will get and influx of players from other games for whatever reason. To say that just because this newest xpac that contains things that some deem foolish and kiddie and that will cause a mass WOW exodus seems to be stretching it a bit too much.
TOR will have it's playerbase and WOW will continue with who they have. If both games can coexist and be popular then that's a win in my book.
Amen to that . Very well put . I do wonder though if the MOP is actually real still sometimes and whether its a ruse to hide the true nature of the new expansion . I still can't believe its real and not some massive hoax . I think the best thing Blizzard could do is have a rethink about all this and maybe cancel it and pull out the stops and come up with something everyone can get behind and support . Rushing out such an expansion to try and combat the release of StarWars would be worse than having no expansion at all .Once this is done there will be no going back for WoW and they will have killed the cash cow and worse they will have done it to themselves .
Sheer madness born out of complacency,arrogance and greed .
The thing is Blizzard might actually need a faliure to get some of it hunger back so in the long term after all the people responsible for it lose thier jobs what you might have is a company under new leadership that bring back some quality to Warcraft again .
I think WoW is about to go through quite a tough period but you may get a leaner ,fitter and more interesting game when the storm settles and the axe has fallen on the likes of Ghostcrawler .
I would start thinking about looking for a new job Greg . Your days are numberd !
It's funny you pointed out the one error I made. I even noticed right after I posted, but I said " he won't be that petty and ignore the rest", oh the misplaced faith in humanity
I understood you said everyone fears blizzard, but again, it is just your opinion. How many game companies have you talked to directly, thats say they "fear" blizzard?
Bioware are going for "Star Wars" fans. If that includes WoW players, all the better. They weren't looking for "mature" ( very loose term for all you panda dislikers) disgruntled emotionally (panda) damaged individuals..
Perhaps you should let the WoW obsession go. Not everything is dependent or affected by WoW. There are other things besides WoW. Millions of people play other games, but don't play WoW. Don't be so narrow-minded.
I think you'll probably find there really isn't an average WoW player . You could argue they would be 12 years old and are casual gamers but I think thats far from the truth . With 12 million people theres going to a huge range of ages and types playing the game .
You have to ask yourself who it is Pandas would appeal to . The 12 year olds or around that age tend to want to be part of a crowd so if peer pressure says Pandas are cool then they are cool . I have huge doubts though the average 12 year old wants to play a Panda ( most of them want to be seen to be growing up ) . Adults who have got over those hang ups of growing up would be more likly to play a Panda than a 12 year old but realistically it wont appeal to the majority of them . Especially the men (ok I'm sure someone will say I'm a man but I'm manly enough to not worry about it. Thats cool but your also probably not the average man or WoW player . Some men keep teddy bears into adult hood and play with toy soldiers while they would defend it to thier eyeteeth most of us would view them as immature . Although they wouldn't see it as such . Women on the other hand like playing cuter stuff or do they ? . I've a 40 year old friend who plays WoW whos looking forward to the Pandas but she also collect china minature lambs has never married and has 7 cats . So I'm not sure how average she is either . I know other female WoW player that really don't like this for the same reason thier male counterparts dont .
It doesn't fit .
So what groups will this really appeal to en mass. Well logically it'll be very young players -10 years old and given the eastern theme also the Asian market .
So perhaps if Blizzard sees the average WoW player is younger than ten or percieved average Asian player .I think they are sorely mistaken .
Its pretty much impossible to catagorise anyone . All you have to look at is what the reaction to this expansion has been in these forums and all over the web .
Is Mists of Pandaria a good idea ?
The answer seems to be pretty much universal NO . ( a few ardent WoW fans aside ) .
I hope blizzard didn't "hand it to Starwars on a plate" as no one wants the WoW community to come over to Starwars.
Yes, there will be many players coming over from there but hopefully it's not the ones who have made WoW the worse community in all of gaming.
The upcoming expansion seems to be geared for grade schoolers and while I'm not putting down kids as there are many more mature then many adults. Hopefully, only mature minded people come to starwars and the rest stay in WoW. After all, the expansion is perfect for them. You don't need too much of a brain to play it as wow is being simplified to it's lowest form.
You have a cartoon of Kung-fu Panda and then there's a Pokeman style battle for pets. Isn't this cute? Talents points will also be changed to accomodate the watered down game. And by the time blizzard is done, all you need to do is use one finger to play the entire game.
Don't look now but I heard Loony Toons has been in negotiations with Blizzard for an expansion with Tweety Bird and Slyvester the cat. I bet they'll make a perfect pair in an upcoming patch, too.
I'm not a 12 year old but I play WoW and have from the start. I've ventured into other games as well but always come back to WoW because it has the content my play style requires. In fact, I have always intended to come back to WoW using other games as a break. Sometimes I would get carried away and swear off WoW but I knew that unless the new game really rocked I would be back.
This is about to change.
I will play SWTOR. I might like it and I might not but at this point I doubt I will come back to WoW. The KungFu Panda thing is about as hokie as I can think of ... and I've seen some hokie stuff. Making the game even more simple also doesn't cut it. I'm still in game, but I haven't logged on for quite a while now and I will probably let it just run out.
Now, SWTOR may or may not be a great game but that changes nothing. It has potential and if it does byte then I can move on to a ton of other games out there. Either way, WoW is just about over for me. From what I'm hearing I'm not the only one. What does this mean? Not a damn thing ... I don't have private talks with every player ... but I think WoW has made a mistake. They could have went with the emerald dream and things would've moved along just fine but the Panda thing is just too romper room for me.
I can't agree with the OP that WoW just handed SWTOR the world but they have handed SWTOR me.
I didn't realise how blatent the kung-fu Panda ripp off was untill now . I just watched the mmo report which was from Blizzcon and had some footage from MOP . It looked to me as if it could have been lifted directly out of the movie . I wonder if theres even a chance of a lawsuit over ths now .
Lore aside I'm wondering what law will say about this .
Blizzard made a massive miscalculation by not understanding social circumstances.
As an adult male, it doesn't make me immature to play a Panda in a fantasy game for fun. I am still an adult and I have already defined who I am in my life so I am not insecure. But for 10-12 year olds, who are growing up they do NOT want to be associated with a kiddy Panda because they are trying to carve out who they are to themselves and circle of friends.
Being part of trends with acitivites, clothing, etc defines who these 10-12 year olds are, not individiual selves until they learn the truth. Thus, if Panda's are not perceived cool, they will reject it outright due to peer pressure.