I challenge you again.... Take you and your buddy that have been playing for a month and challenge a vet!
Git'r'done.... prove your point!
Not going to go back and forth with you on a game that i've played since beta... a game that i've been a part of the biggest alliance possible... and a game that i've written hundreds of scripts and programs for. My knowledge of darkfall far exceeds yours.... it's that simple. Git'r'done!
I challenge you again.... Take you and your buddy that have been playing for a month and challenge a vet!
Git'r'done.... prove your point!
Not going to go back and forth with you on a game that i've played since beta... a game that i've been a part of the biggest alliance possible... and a game that i've written hundreds of scripts and programs for. My knowledge of darkfall far exceeds yours.... it's that simple. Git'r'done!
I've done it lots of times on my alt account with just a bow and arrow, which I made to play with one of my friends who is a newer player.
I challenge you to post the the same whine, "impossible for two, 1- month old character to beat a vet", as a thread in the Darkfall forums and see how many people you get commming in and correcting you and telling you how wrong you are.
I've been playing since beta too and I was still killing people with archery lots of people have 100 in magic when magic was OP. That is pretty silly to assume your knowledge of DF would "far" exceed mine.
You've "written hundreds of scripts and programs" for DF? really? hundreds? I think that should make it pretty obvious to anyone that what you say is BS.
At most a vet will do double damage compared to a new player with the same weapon. For spells, it isn't even possible to achieve double damage by raising everything about it to maximum. So you are crying about the difference between newb and vet that isn't even over a 100% difference. It is the same for hit points, you don't even double your hit points from newly created character to maxed out HP, yet still baddies complaining about how it is "impossible" to pvp against vets as a new player. It would be impossible if this game was rockem sockem robots, but it is not, there is aiming, there is dodging, there is using terrain, there is the element of surprise, there are other players, all which make pvp less about stats and more about player skill.
stop blaming the game for why YOU suck. The only thing holding you back from pvp is yourself. Newer players are very viable in pvp, especially compared to other games.
Just because you can't beat a "vet" with two, 1-month old characters doesn't mean others can't. Besides, it is a pvpmmorpg and when has any pvpmmorpg ever allowed a new player to easily beat maxed out veterans? Suck it up or find a dfif game you don't feel the need to cry about. We like it this way.
I challenge you again.... Take you and your buddy that have been playing for a month and challenge a vet!
Git'r'done.... prove your point!
Not going to go back and forth with you on a game that i've played since beta... a game that i've been a part of the biggest alliance possible... and a game that i've written hundreds of scripts and programs for. My knowledge of darkfall far exceeds yours.... it's that simple. Git'r'done!
I've done it lots of times on my alt account with just a bow and arrow, which I made to play with one of my friends who is a newer player.
I challenge you to post the the same whine, "impossible for two, 1- month old character to beat a vet", as a thread in the Darkfall forums and see how many people you get commming in and correcting you and telling you how wrong you are.
I've been playing since beta too and I was still killing people with archery lots of people have 100 in magic when magic was OP. That is pretty silly to assume your knowledge of DF would "far" exceed mine.
You've "written hundreds of scripts and programs" for DF? really? hundreds? I think that should make it pretty obvious to anyone that what you say is BS.
At most a vet will do double damage compared to a new player with the same weapon. For spells, it isn't even possible to achieve double damage by raising everything about it to maximum. So you are crying about the difference between newb and vet that isn't even over a 100% difference. It is the same for hit points, you don't even double your hit points from newly created character to maxed out HP, yet still baddies complaining about how it is "impossible" to pvp against vets as a new player. It would be impossible if this game was rockem sockem robots, but it is not, there is aiming, there is dodging, there is using terrain, there is the element of surprise, there are other players, all which make pvp less about stats and more about player skill.
stop blaming the game for why YOU suck. The only thing holding you back from pvp is yourself. Newer players are very viable in pvp, especially compared to other games.
Just because you can't beat a "vet" with two, 1-month old characters doesn't mean others can't. Besides, it is a pvpmmorpg and when has any pvpmmorpg ever allowed a new player to easily beat maxed out veterans? Suck it up or find a dfif game you don't feel the need to cry about. We like it this way.
I dont understand the back and forth. The numbers are not in despute, and Ive been playing since EU beta.
Melee with mastery at 75 for both and your doing 40-50s (depending on weapon) to the front and dmg cap from behind versus's 20s at the top end pre-melee mastery. Its about the same for spells but the AOE dmg is higher versus pre 75. Both are well above 100%+ if you included back shots (90s with a decent keened r60+ or r90/r100 spell like EC)
Starting HP's are 255(?) versus a 435 or 445(?) ork/mahriam. I forget what I cap out at but Ive been at cap+vit title bonus+racial for at least 1.5 years
Darkfall was never intended to have newbies challange vets , its not a small scale pvp game. Its supposed to be large scale clan pvp like it was in the first year'ish. Its just like that now due to population.
Vets will do considerably more damage, and they will also do it at a much faster rate (their swing times), -and- it doesn't even matter if the 1-monther happens to stumble upon a vet who is trash at pvp. Because if that vet starts losing, guess what? He's going to have 3-4 times the escape options or gap openers. He can also heal and resource up 2-3 times faster. So even if the vet has to disengage and re-engage 5 times, the inevitable is that the new player is going to get smashed.
Anyway you look at you, your going to be playing a useless support role your first couple months (depending on how dedicated you are) because the grind is just that long and the power gap is just that big. And I say useless, because -and here's the kicker- theres no need for support roles because every vet has every spell and everybody plays support already. So you're litarly just a meatshield who heals every now and then.
Sure, if you get into large sieges, you can be somewhat useful by just pecking arrows from a distance, but other than that, your going to get shit on.
I played darkfall up until I got my character to what I considered vet level and quit because of av's stupidity. And most of what the op said was nonsense. What he fails to acknowledge is that the power gap is formed by the accumalation of so many skills and stats. Their is an absurd amount of skills that only increase x by y. And yes, individually, not having one is negligible, but when you add them all up, it's a mountain of difference.
Vets will do considerably more damage, and they will also do it at a much faster rate (their swing times), -and- it doesn't even matter if the 1-monther happens to stumble upon a vet who is trash at pvp.
I challenge you to make a thread on the DF forums that says "1-month can't beat vets", post the link here and we will see how many DF players tell you how wrong you are.
Heal spell cooldown timers are equal between vet and noob and they are on long timers and don't heal very much more at all from training them up. Noobs can cast conversations at the same rate as a veteran. Are you reallly complaining that brand spanking new players have a hard time going 1v1 with maxed out veterans in a pvpmmorpg?
Just because you can't beat bad players doesn't mean others can't. It is pretty ridiculous that the damage differences betwen vet and noob are not greater than 100% and yet there is still so much crying, usually ALWAYS from bad players. Most of them are probably from the instant gratification crowd who only want to play one aspects of the game, they want a badass character without having to put forth any effort at all. Now we have meditation, which allows you to max out your stats without even needing to play the game and STILL there is crying. I guess it is to be expected that some people will never be satisfied and we have to hear from all the spoiled, and overly expectant products of poor parenting whenever there is a video game that is designed for a hard-mode audience.
Vets will do considerably more damage, and they will also do it at a much faster rate (their swing times), -and- it doesn't even matter if the 1-monther happens to stumble upon a vet who is trash at pvp.
I challenge you to make a thread on the DF forums that says "1-month can't beat vets", post the link here and we will see how many DF players tell you how wrong you are.
Heal spell cooldown timers are equal between vet and noob and they are on long timers and don't heal very much more at all from training them up. Noobs can cast conversations at the same rate as a veteran. Are you reallly complaining that brand spanking new players have a hard time going 1v1 with maxed out veterans in a pvpmmorpg?
Just because you can't beat bad players doesn't mean others can't. It is pretty ridiculous that the damage differences betwen vet and noob are not greater than 100% and yet there is still so much crying, usually ALWAYS from bad players. Most of them are probably from the instant gratification crowd who only want to play one aspects of the game, they want a badass character without having to put forth any effort at all. Now we have meditation, which allows you to max out your stats without even needing to play the game and STILL there is crying. I guess it is to be expected that some people will never be satisfied and we have to hear from all the spoiled, and overly expectant products of poor parenting whenever there is a video game that is designed for a hardcore audience.
I wouldn't post something that can link your account here to the one on the Darkfall forums. This Trashburn is probably Tasos looking to Del your account for telling people the truth.
Vets will do considerably more damage, and they will also do it at a much faster rate (their swing times), -and- it doesn't even matter if the 1-monther happens to stumble upon a vet who is trash at pvp.
I challenge you to make a thread on the DF forums that says "1-month can't beat vets", post the link here and we will see how many DF players tell you how wrong you are.
Heal spell cooldown timers are equal between vet and noob and they are on long timers and don't heal very much more at all from training them up. Noobs can cast conversations at the same rate as a veteran. Are you reallly complaining that brand spanking new players have a hard time going 1v1 with maxed out veterans in a pvpmmorpg?
Just because you can't beat bad players doesn't mean others can't. It is pretty ridiculous that the damage differences betwen vet and noob are not greater than 100% and yet there is still so much crying, usually ALWAYS from bad players. Most of them are probably from the instant gratification crowd who only want to play one aspects of the game, they want a badass character without having to put forth any effort at all. Now we have meditation, which allows you to max out your stats without even needing to play the game and STILL there is crying. I guess it is to be expected that some people will never be satisfied and we have to hear from all the spoiled, and overly expectant products of poor parenting whenever there is a video game that is designed for a hard-mode audience.
I am curious why you dont know that vets in fact do cast heals/tranferes quicker? and for a lot more (heal #'s).
Not including spell haste (which every vet will have up) every heal/transfer spell either gives another tick (heal amount) or reduced cast time per 25 tier (25,50,75,100) The only thing that does not change is the CD.
The arguments on here I see about "Vets can die!" are posted by vets, who are dying to newbs, thus making the newbs can be vets arguments valid from their perspective. Likewise, the newbs that can't be the vets are dying to vets.
It's simple, just like any game, those who have more experience playing the game, will be those who don't. Not only do they have higher skills and more health, but they also have time played.
Darkfall is a fun game. I played for a while, had to macro up skills, and quit. I don't want to macro to play a game. Then they nerfed macroing (after several people benefited from it).
I like the openess of Darkfall, but I dislike the "elite" players calling everyone else "bad". This game is perfect fro you. Stay here. Please.
Vets will do considerably more damage, and they will also do it at a much faster rate (their swing times), -and- it doesn't even matter if the 1-monther happens to stumble upon a vet who is trash at pvp.
I challenge you to make a thread on the DF forums that says "1-month can't beat vets", post the link here and we will see how many DF players tell you how wrong you are.
Heal spell cooldown timers are equal between vet and noob and they are on long timers and don't heal very much more at all from training them up. Noobs can cast conversations at the same rate as a veteran. Are you reallly complaining that brand spanking new players have a hard time going 1v1 with maxed out veterans in a pvpmmorpg?
Just because you can't beat bad players doesn't mean others can't. It is pretty ridiculous that the damage differences betwen vet and noob are not greater than 100% and yet there is still so much crying, usually ALWAYS from bad players. Most of them are probably from the instant gratification crowd who only want to play one aspects of the game, they want a badass character without having to put forth any effort at all. Now we have meditation, which allows you to max out your stats without even needing to play the game and STILL there is crying. I guess it is to be expected that some people will never be satisfied and we have to hear from all the spoiled, and overly expectant products of poor parenting whenever there is a video game that is designed for a hard-mode audience.
I am curious why you dont know that vets in fact do cast heals/tranferes quicker? and for a lot more (heal #'s).
Not including spell haste (which every vet will have up) every heal/transfer spell either gives another tick (heal amount) or reduced cast time per 25 tier (25,50,75,100) The only thing that does not change is the CD.
The only heal that you don't get right away as a noob is witches brew, which has the longest cooldown timer, like 45 sec and it might give 10 more hp than lesser heal. Training up healing spells is even less beneficial than training up damage spells in terms of numbers increase.
You are also wrong about the number of ticks.
conversions always have the same number of ticks nomatter the lvl and it isn't more than 50% of its original at maximum.
Also, AV has changed it so that training up heal self and witches brew actually provides LESS ticks for more at higher levels.
I think what you said just futher establishes that your narrow minded perspective is worthless and you have nothing valid to contribute to this thread. Don't you have anything better to do than spread misinformed garbage about the differences between a noob and a vet in a pvpmmorpg, (which happens to have the smallest difference than any other pvpmmorpg) and that you don't even play?
Darkfall isn't for wussies who cry about such minimal differences, being good about DF is more about player skill than character. If you want to be exactly equal to everyone in pvp without putting forth any effort, there are plenty of FPS games out there.
Do not trust vets. I have a 2 year old char (inactive) and i can tell you that stats matters, A LOT. Is because who have a end game char hit so hard. 100+ in quickness mean you swin more fast compared to people who have 50, STR is the same, every 10 points of STR you have a 1 point of damage increase, so if you have 110 is 11 points more per hit. Also quickness mitigate damage too. Int and DEX is the same as STR. Also i don't mention all the subskills that increment the damage/defence/regeneration a lot. Is a hard grind, meditation help but the best way is to perform task AFK in macro because, for example, swimming increase 3 stats at the same time.
No matter how a vet told you that you can be viable from day 1, is a lie, they just say this because the game has very low population atm and they want more players to roll, and no matter how good you are, against a 2 year old maxed char you will lose even if you are more good to land hits because he need a lot less hits to kill you.
For all, wait for DF 2.0 where they claim you can be viable in your ROLE in a small amount of time. I think 2.0 will be the saviour or the apocalypse for this game. Hope they do it right this time because i like this game.
He doesn't even have witchesbrew or sacrifice yet and he missed half of his attacks and he was not buffed. With more potions and something better than a transmuted sword he probably would have won at the end.
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Originally posted by Sid_Vicious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TXkszFJliI ^ 3-day old character ^ He doesn't even have witchesbrew or sacrifice yet and he missed half of his attacks and he was not buffed. With more potions and something better than a transmuted sword he probably would have won at the end.
Sid now show me a video where a 3 day old "player/char" is not duo with a vet and also does not have r50's which are also enchanted/keened. Oh was that also a full plate chest and bone?
DOH on another note it looks like that "3 day old char" has macro's set up as well.
I started the game and joined NEW and was on the top end of the PVP people that joined at the same time as me. On average your new player runs with r40's and studded and if he is good buys bone. Then it takes time to learn about macro's and how to set them up. THEN you run into the scripts dept. MOST of the vets i know that are good run RAY/r90 and r100 scripts.
I love DF and would still be playing if they ever decide to say there wont be a wipe. But please do not post BS video's of vets killing people when they are 2v1 on someone.
Your BIGGEST issue's as a new player is 1- gear and 2- conversions and 3- buffs.
Do not trust vets. I have a 2 year old char (inactive) and i can tell you that stats matters, A LOT. Is because who have a end game char hit so hard.
100+ in quickness mean you swin more fast compared to people who have 50, STR is the same, every 10 points of STR you have a 1 point of damage increase, so if you have 110 is 11 points more per hit. Also quickness mitigate damage too. Int and DEX is the same as STR. Also i don't mention all the subskills that increment the damage/defence/regeneration a lot. Is a hard grind, meditation help but the best way is
to perform task AFK in macro because, for example, swimming increase 3 stats at the same time.
No matter how a vet told you that you can be viable from day 1, is a lie, they just say this because the game has very low population atm and they want more players to roll, and no matter how good you are, against a 2 year old maxed char you will lose even if you are more good to land hits because he need a lot less hits to kill you.
For all, wait for DF 2.0 where they claim you can be viable in your ROLE in a small amount of time. I think 2.0 will be the saviour or the apocalypse for this game. Hope they do it right this time because i like this game.
So much wrong with your stat "knowledge i dont even know where to start.
Gains are minimal and matter most at the end (for instance two character of equal player skill one with 5-10 less in some stats would lose more or less, equal geared)
You wont be viable in the leading charge of a seige at day 1 but cant offer some help after a week with supporting the maxed out fighters, such as healing /buffing and running supplies.
Ive seen many times where a lesser statted and skilled player has beaten a well statted player. Im that guy with stats 80+ that gets beat by far newer characters. Player skill matters most. Stat and skill gains are minimal but add up over the long haul, getting stuff up to 75 is more than enough to compete with maxed out characters granted you as a player knows how to play. Thats the largest determination on who wins, or who stays alive.
1vs1 seems to be reserved as friendly activites, not that occasion random 1vs1's dont occur. Most fights are small group or zerg brawls where a whole new set of rules invole teamwork rather than who has more maxed characters.
Then theres the obvious fact that those good players dont frequent nooby areas to grief new players, they are either trying to recruit them into their clan or gifting loot bags to them.
He doesn't even have witchesbrew or sacrifice yet and he missed half of his attacks and he was not buffed. With more potions and something better than a transmuted sword he probably would have won at the end.
"your mastery of muscular has increased"
TThats a 350+ hit point skill which is not currently possible to reach in 3 days.
difference between self heal and WB is closer to 25.
AV changed the AOE size of WB, not the tick amount.
Anybody who says " Training up healing spells is even less beneficial " is not a vet because they would have their SH to surging which is amazing.
So again I'll ask, why do you think flaming real numbers from the game you claim to be a "vet" when its obvious you have no real idea of how things work in df.
Darkfall had some really great aspects like an innovative mob AI. I'm glad I gave it a try.
That being said, Darkfall is too exploitable and too difficult for the average player to have a roll. The macroing and 'bloodwalls' are a shame. If it were up to me I would do away with ALL SKILL PROGRESSION!!!! Why not? You can't convince me that you have 'so much' invested in your character that you deserve an advantage (over those that don't macro). If you hardcore players want 'fair fights' so damm much....give all characters max skills. Just think for a minute. Instead of macroing all the time you could be PvPing more, and have more targets!!! PvEers would still have gathering and crafting as everyone will still need gear.
Darkfall is simply too difficult for the mainstream player. One truly needs to have skills with Autoit and keyboard macroing and one hell of a twitch reflex to be competitive. I understand that this is what the truly hardcore players want so I never QQ'd, I just stopped playing. I freely admit that I don't have uber skills and I want to have the ability to walk away from the keyboard on occasion without having to strip off every damm thing I'm wearing.
In the end I hope Darkfall has longterm success. Anytime a non-Wow clone has success it encourages other developers to go out on a limb and try something different, and we need different badly.
difference between self heal and WB is closer to 25.
AV changed the AOE size of WB, not the tick amount.
Anybody who says " Training up healing spells is even less beneficial " is not a vet because they would have their SH to surging which is amazing.
So again I'll ask, why do you think flaming real numbers from the game you claim to be a "vet" when its obvious you have no real idea of how things work in df.
You obviously don't know what you are talking about when you say that witches brew heals 25 more hp than heal self. Anyone who plays DF could tell you that you are wrong.
btw, yes they did change the tick amount AND the AOE.
get your facts straight before you come in here with your narrow minded noobspeak of someone who doesn't even play the game, baddy. The differences are minimal, yet still you continue to cry. Even if it was 25 more HP every 45 sec, that is less than the difference of a single hit.
This just goes to show how ridiculous the people crying about vets really are.
Darkfall had some really great aspects like an innovative mob AI. I'm glad I gave it a try.
That being said, Darkfall is too exploitable and too difficult for the average player to have a roll. The macroing and 'bloodwalls' are a shame. If it were up to me I would do away with ALL SKILL PROGRESSION!!!! Why not? You can't convince me that you have 'so much' invested in your character that you deserve an advantage (over those that don't macro). If you hardcore players want 'fair fights' so damm much....give all characters max skills. Just think for a minute. Instead of macroing all the time you could be PvPing more, and have more targets!!! PvEers would still have gathering and crafting as everyone will still need gear.
Darkfall is simply too difficult for the mainstream player. One truly needs to have skills with Autoit and keyboard macroing and one hell of a twitch reflex to be competitive. I understand that this is what the truly hardcore players want so I never QQ'd, I just stopped playing. I freely admit that I don't have uber skills and I want to have the ability to walk away from the keyboard on occasion without having to strip off every damm thing I'm wearing.
In the end I hope Darkfall has longterm success. Anytime a non-Wow clone has success it encourages other developers to go out on a limb and try something different, and we need different badly.
Two remarks. First, if you remove all progression from an RPG what is left is something else. For Darkfall it would mean that the game would be nothing but a FPS. Second, there is nothing "hard" or "difficult" in Darkfall as it stands. Time-consuming does not make something hard, it makes it just time-consuming. If you want to see competitive FPS gameplay you are more likely to find it from blockbuster FPS games that have millions of players than in Darkfall with its few thousand players.
As a more general remark for the thread. If you need someone to convince everyone else is wrong and the game is a gem in hiding, there really must be something wrong with the game. Even the most silly things will get popular if they are well executed and generally interesting (see e.g. Minecraft). At present not enough people are suggesting the game to their friends and no amount of "vet talk" will change that. The reality or facts have no significance if those who try the game don't want to continue playing it.
As i said before the issue is the large amount of grind and cause this the miss of a true role, the game is unbalanced toward the hybrid battle mage because is the actual and only viable playstyle. Why? Simply because the game is build in this way. Since the actual specialization is useless everyone (at least 95% of the actual playerbase) is a battlemage, because the game allow you to be competitive only if you have melee/archery/magic/crafting.
Think about it, melee 2h weapon is mandatory for close combat, archery because magic don't work underwater, and magic as closed range weapon on land. Also i don't mention all the buffs of every magic school that give you and advantage, blinds, roots and so on. And the last one, the crafting, to protect your gear you have to raise maintenance through crafting. Crating is a time consuming because to do it you have to gather raw, and is a very slow and tedious work. Everything in this game is time consuming, always when you die in a battle is difficult to come back in a reasonable amount of time.
Tl;dr, everything is this game is linked, so there isn't a role at all but more skill you have more versatile and strong you are.
Is because people wait 2.0, where we hope there will be a deep role and specialization system and not the feel to raise every skill, no more hybrids, no more battlemages but a lot of different playstyles with dedicated armours. I still have hopes for this because i really like this game and i want it succed.
well, personally, I like that hybrids are dominant in pvp rather than one particular playstyle. I think DF is well balanced in that regard because when you have a class based pvp game there are ALWAYS imbalances. Classes are what makes a pvp game imbalanced. In DF your role is defined by the armor and weapons you wear and your playstyle, not something you are stuck with because you picked a certain class on the character creation screen.
You would be amazed at how many people think they could be pro at a video game if they just took the time, they think all it takes to be good at a game like starcraft2 is time investment. DF isn't just time investment training a character, you have to spend time getting good. DF is obviously hard, the mobs are harder, the pvp is harder, and when things are hard, people will naturally cry about it.
Just because some cry about how hard the game is for them personally, doesn't mean the game is neccessarily flawed. I actually think DF has become too easy, it is too easy for stupid players to make a good character. I don't care about tons of subs from terrible players like WoW has, I would rathar know that the people I'm playing with have what it takes to be competitive and play a hardcore pvpmmorpg. If i wanted to play with a bunch of instant-gratification babies, I would play any other mmorpg on the market. Darkfall is such a good game that even the wussies and spoiled kids who it wasn't designed for want to play some aspect of it. I'm very thankful that the people I meet in DF are, for the most part, quality.
Doesn't that just make perfect sense?
The tears will never stop and there is nothing AV can do about it without ruining the game for the people who it was meant for (non-wussies).
There are plenty of other posts in this thread that demonstrate the difference between the people who "get it", the people who DF was meant for, and the rejects who naturally feel the need to cry about something when they feel it is too hard for them. This is what happens when a gaming company finally makes a game that caters to hard-mode players instead of the easymode, instant-gratification types that comprise the majority of the gamer demographic. The differences are minimal, smaller than any other pvpmmorpg between newer player and vet, yet STILL some people continue to blame the game for why they suck at pvp.
In any game that you find yourself dying in, It is always FAR, FAR easier to blame the game than blame yourself and try think of what you could be doing differently to become better as a player, instead of becomming a useless forum crybaby, complaining that things are too hard and differences are too great to overcome in a video game.
Here's the problem with Darkfall: By the nature of the game, 1/4th the players in it don't get to have fun. It's not possible, unless you enjoy being killed, being looted, being victimized, losing all your stuff... and essentially being a nonfactor anywhere you go.
Out of all the active players in the game, 1/4th of them are trash compared to the other 3/4ths. Any PvP encounter they have, they will die and not have fun. They are the noobs or the bad. Doesn't matter which: you play Darkfall, you won't have fun.
New players are extremely likely to be in this bottom 1/4th. So they leave and the game doesn't grow.
This is the MMO Credo: Successful MMOs are fueled by Veteran's tears... not Casual's. Darkfall caters to the best and gives the best player experience to the greatest skilled/developed character while carrying the unspoken expectation that those on the other end will allow themselves to have a miserable time and not leave the game.
If Darkfall 2.0 wants to make a splash - they need to FOCUS on making the gaming experience of the bottom 1/4th as enjoyable as possible. How they'll do that, I have no idea. I doubt they'll even try.
Originally posted by trashburnin
Darkfall is such a good game that even the wussies and spoiled kids who it wasn't designed for want to play some aspect of it. I'm very thankful that the people I meet in DF are, for the most part, quality.
Doesn't that just make perfect sense?
The tears will never stop and there is nothing AV can do about it without ruining the game for the people who it was meant for (non-wussies).
Oh, I can see why this game is dead if you are indicative of the average person who plays.
You don't have to be a wuss not to enjoy a game that's set up to be a new/bad/casual player's hell. You just have to be a new/bad/casual player. And the fact Darkfall probably has about 1-2k players left is a testiment to how ineffective their model was. You seem to have what you want though - a hardcore MMO with a dedicated, skilled and VERY elite/tiny playerbase. Why are you here, trying to court us wussies/spoiled children who played for a month or two and were just not "hardcore" enough to hack it?
There's a rumour circulating the tavern....darkfall vets are campaigning to bring in some fresh meat for the meat grinder.....shh......you never heard it from me
All jokes aside, 1st time i wanted to try darkfall i really did hear people saying this in the official forum. That added to the numerous lengthy adventurine betrayal folklore almost turn me off. But i did manage to secure back my meatball and give the game a trial.
For me as a new player experience feedback
"They need to improve the effing UI"
Conclusion : Waiting for adventurine to finish betraying the player trust fund and release darkfall 2.0
PS. The "I can never be as good as those no life vet player or botter" mentality do sink in a little into my puddle of fear.
I played DF since beta and am universally acclaimed the greatest DF pvp player ever. People are in awe of me. So when I say something about this game, you know that it's coming from a true authority.
There is no such thing as skill in DF. It's all about how much you play. DF takes absolutely no special talent or ability.
Comments
AV's communication policies are laughable at best.
Maybe releasing 2.0 "as advertised" before 2015
and a heaping dose of
.
This would dispel my misgivings about the game.
Life IS Feudal
I challenge you again.... Take you and your buddy that have been playing for a month and challenge a vet!
Git'r'done.... prove your point!
Not going to go back and forth with you on a game that i've played since beta... a game that i've been a part of the biggest alliance possible... and a game that i've written hundreds of scripts and programs for. My knowledge of darkfall far exceeds yours.... it's that simple. Git'r'done!
I've done it lots of times on my alt account with just a bow and arrow, which I made to play with one of my friends who is a newer player.
I challenge you to post the the same whine, "impossible for two, 1- month old character to beat a vet", as a thread in the Darkfall forums and see how many people you get commming in and correcting you and telling you how wrong you are.
I've been playing since beta too and I was still killing people with archery lots of people have 100 in magic when magic was OP. That is pretty silly to assume your knowledge of DF would "far" exceed mine.
You've "written hundreds of scripts and programs" for DF? really? hundreds?
I think that should make it pretty obvious to anyone that what you say is BS.
At most a vet will do double damage compared to a new player with the same weapon. For spells, it isn't even possible to achieve double damage by raising everything about it to maximum. So you are crying about the difference between newb and vet that isn't even over a 100% difference. It is the same for hit points, you don't even double your hit points from newly created character to maxed out HP, yet still baddies complaining about how it is "impossible" to pvp against vets as a new player. It would be impossible if this game was rockem sockem robots, but it is not, there is aiming, there is dodging, there is using terrain, there is the element of surprise, there are other players, all which make pvp less about stats and more about player skill.
stop blaming the game for why YOU suck. The only thing holding you back from pvp is yourself. Newer players are very viable in pvp, especially compared to other games.
Just because you can't beat a "vet" with two, 1-month old characters doesn't mean others can't. Besides, it is a pvpmmorpg and when has any pvpmmorpg ever allowed a new player to easily beat maxed out veterans? Suck it up or find a dfif game you don't feel the need to cry about. We like it this way.
I dont understand the back and forth. The numbers are not in despute, and Ive been playing since EU beta.
Melee with mastery at 75 for both and your doing 40-50s (depending on weapon) to the front and dmg cap from behind versus's 20s at the top end pre-melee mastery. Its about the same for spells but the AOE dmg is higher versus pre 75. Both are well above 100%+ if you included back shots (90s with a decent keened r60+ or r90/r100 spell like EC)
Starting HP's are 255(?) versus a 435 or 445(?) ork/mahriam. I forget what I cap out at but Ive been at cap+vit title bonus+racial for at least 1.5 years
Darkfall was never intended to have newbies challange vets , its not a small scale pvp game. Its supposed to be large scale clan pvp like it was in the first year'ish. Its just like that now due to population.
Vets will do considerably more damage, and they will also do it at a much faster rate (their swing times), -and- it doesn't even matter if the 1-monther happens to stumble upon a vet who is trash at pvp. Because if that vet starts losing, guess what? He's going to have 3-4 times the escape options or gap openers. He can also heal and resource up 2-3 times faster. So even if the vet has to disengage and re-engage 5 times, the inevitable is that the new player is going to get smashed.
Anyway you look at you, your going to be playing a useless support role your first couple months (depending on how dedicated you are) because the grind is just that long and the power gap is just that big. And I say useless, because -and here's the kicker- theres no need for support roles because every vet has every spell and everybody plays support already. So you're litarly just a meatshield who heals every now and then.
Sure, if you get into large sieges, you can be somewhat useful by just pecking arrows from a distance, but other than that, your going to get shit on.
I played darkfall up until I got my character to what I considered vet level and quit because of av's stupidity. And most of what the op said was nonsense. What he fails to acknowledge is that the power gap is formed by the accumalation of so many skills and stats. Their is an absurd amount of skills that only increase x by y. And yes, individually, not having one is negligible, but when you add them all up, it's a mountain of difference.
I challenge you to make a thread on the DF forums that says "1-month can't beat vets", post the link here and we will see how many DF players tell you how wrong you are.
Heal spell cooldown timers are equal between vet and noob and they are on long timers and don't heal very much more at all from training them up. Noobs can cast conversations at the same rate as a veteran. Are you reallly complaining that brand spanking new players have a hard time going 1v1 with maxed out veterans in a pvpmmorpg?
Just because you can't beat bad players doesn't mean others can't. It is pretty ridiculous that the damage differences betwen vet and noob are not greater than 100% and yet there is still so much crying, usually ALWAYS from bad players. Most of them are probably from the instant gratification crowd who only want to play one aspects of the game, they want a badass character without having to put forth any effort at all. Now we have meditation, which allows you to max out your stats without even needing to play the game and STILL there is crying. I guess it is to be expected that some people will never be satisfied and we have to hear from all the spoiled, and overly expectant products of poor parenting whenever there is a video game that is designed for a hard-mode audience.
I wouldn't post something that can link your account here to the one on the Darkfall forums. This Trashburn is probably Tasos looking to Del your account for telling people the truth.
I am curious why you dont know that vets in fact do cast heals/tranferes quicker? and for a lot more (heal #'s).
Not including spell haste (which every vet will have up) every heal/transfer spell either gives another tick (heal amount) or reduced cast time per 25 tier (25,50,75,100) The only thing that does not change is the CD.
I just had to throw in my two cents.
The arguments on here I see about "Vets can die!" are posted by vets, who are dying to newbs, thus making the newbs can be vets arguments valid from their perspective. Likewise, the newbs that can't be the vets are dying to vets.
It's simple, just like any game, those who have more experience playing the game, will be those who don't. Not only do they have higher skills and more health, but they also have time played.
Darkfall is a fun game. I played for a while, had to macro up skills, and quit. I don't want to macro to play a game. Then they nerfed macroing (after several people benefited from it).
I like the openess of Darkfall, but I dislike the "elite" players calling everyone else "bad". This game is perfect fro you. Stay here. Please.
Currently playing Real Life..
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For all your stalking needs..
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The only heal that you don't get right away as a noob is witches brew, which has the longest cooldown timer, like 45 sec and it might give 10 more hp than lesser heal. Training up healing spells is even less beneficial than training up damage spells in terms of numbers increase.
You are also wrong about the number of ticks.
conversions always have the same number of ticks nomatter the lvl and it isn't more than 50% of its original at maximum.
Also, AV has changed it so that training up heal self and witches brew actually provides LESS ticks for more at higher levels.
I think what you said just futher establishes that your narrow minded perspective is worthless and you have nothing valid to contribute to this thread. Don't you have anything better to do than spread misinformed garbage about the differences between a noob and a vet in a pvpmmorpg, (which happens to have the smallest difference than any other pvpmmorpg) and that you don't even play?
Darkfall isn't for wussies who cry about such minimal differences, being good about DF is more about player skill than character. If you want to be exactly equal to everyone in pvp without putting forth any effort, there are plenty of FPS games out there.
Do not trust vets. I have a 2 year old char (inactive) and i can tell you that stats matters, A LOT. Is because who have a end game char hit so hard.
100+ in quickness mean you swin more fast compared to people who have 50, STR is the same, every 10 points of STR you have a 1 point of damage increase, so if you have 110 is 11 points more per hit. Also quickness mitigate damage too. Int and DEX is the same as STR. Also i don't mention all the subskills that increment the damage/defence/regeneration a lot. Is a hard grind, meditation help but the best way is
to perform task AFK in macro because, for example, swimming increase 3 stats at the same time.
No matter how a vet told you that you can be viable from day 1, is a lie, they just say this because the game has very low population atm and they want more players to roll, and no matter how good you are, against a 2 year old maxed char you will lose even if you are more good to land hits because he need a lot less hits to kill you.
For all, wait for DF 2.0 where they claim you can be viable in your ROLE in a small amount of time. I think 2.0 will be the saviour or the apocalypse for this game. Hope they do it right this time because i like this game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TXkszFJliI
^ 3-day old character ^
He doesn't even have witchesbrew or sacrifice yet and he missed half of his attacks and he was not buffed. With more potions and something better than a transmuted sword he probably would have won at the end.
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Sid now show me a video where a 3 day old "player/char" is not duo with a vet and also does not have r50's which are also enchanted/keened. Oh was that also a full plate chest and bone?
DOH on another note it looks like that "3 day old char" has macro's set up as well.
I started the game and joined NEW and was on the top end of the PVP people that joined at the same time as me. On average your new player runs with r40's and studded and if he is good buys bone. Then it takes time to learn about macro's and how to set them up. THEN you run into the scripts dept. MOST of the vets i know that are good run RAY/r90 and r100 scripts.
I love DF and would still be playing if they ever decide to say there wont be a wipe. But please do not post BS video's of vets killing people when they are 2v1 on someone.
Your BIGGEST issue's as a new player is 1- gear and 2- conversions and 3- buffs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H73NKqIX3E&hd=1
vet pvp, i think if you compare the two vids there a MASSSIVE difference?
I can look at a new player and kill him.
So much wrong with your stat "knowledge i dont even know where to start.
Gains are minimal and matter most at the end (for instance two character of equal player skill one with 5-10 less in some stats would lose more or less, equal geared)
You wont be viable in the leading charge of a seige at day 1 but cant offer some help after a week with supporting the maxed out fighters, such as healing /buffing and running supplies.
Ive seen many times where a lesser statted and skilled player has beaten a well statted player. Im that guy with stats 80+ that gets beat by far newer characters. Player skill matters most. Stat and skill gains are minimal but add up over the long haul, getting stuff up to 75 is more than enough to compete with maxed out characters granted you as a player knows how to play. Thats the largest determination on who wins, or who stays alive.
1vs1 seems to be reserved as friendly activites, not that occasion random 1vs1's dont occur. Most fights are small group or zerg brawls where a whole new set of rules invole teamwork rather than who has more maxed characters.
Then theres the obvious fact that those good players dont frequent nooby areas to grief new players, they are either trying to recruit them into their clan or gifting loot bags to them.
"your mastery of muscular has increased"
TThats a 350+ hit point skill which is not currently possible to reach in 3 days.
difference between self heal and WB is closer to 25.
AV changed the AOE size of WB, not the tick amount.
Anybody who says " Training up healing spells is even less beneficial " is not a vet because they would have their SH to surging which is amazing.
So again I'll ask, why do you think flaming real numbers from the game you claim to be a "vet" when its obvious you have no real idea of how things work in df.
Darkfall had some really great aspects like an innovative mob AI. I'm glad I gave it a try.
That being said, Darkfall is too exploitable and too difficult for the average player to have a roll. The macroing and 'bloodwalls' are a shame. If it were up to me I would do away with ALL SKILL PROGRESSION!!!! Why not? You can't convince me that you have 'so much' invested in your character that you deserve an advantage (over those that don't macro). If you hardcore players want 'fair fights' so damm much....give all characters max skills. Just think for a minute. Instead of macroing all the time you could be PvPing more, and have more targets!!! PvEers would still have gathering and crafting as everyone will still need gear.
Darkfall is simply too difficult for the mainstream player. One truly needs to have skills with Autoit and keyboard macroing and one hell of a twitch reflex to be competitive. I understand that this is what the truly hardcore players want so I never QQ'd, I just stopped playing. I freely admit that I don't have uber skills and I want to have the ability to walk away from the keyboard on occasion without having to strip off every damm thing I'm wearing.
In the end I hope Darkfall has longterm success. Anytime a non-Wow clone has success it encourages other developers to go out on a limb and try something different, and we need different badly.
You obviously don't know what you are talking about when you say that witches brew heals 25 more hp than heal self. Anyone who plays DF could tell you that you are wrong.
btw, yes they did change the tick amount AND the AOE.
get your facts straight before you come in here with your narrow minded noobspeak of someone who doesn't even play the game, baddy. The differences are minimal, yet still you continue to cry. Even if it was 25 more HP every 45 sec, that is less than the difference of a single hit.
This just goes to show how ridiculous the people crying about vets really are.
Two remarks. First, if you remove all progression from an RPG what is left is something else. For Darkfall it would mean that the game would be nothing but a FPS. Second, there is nothing "hard" or "difficult" in Darkfall as it stands. Time-consuming does not make something hard, it makes it just time-consuming. If you want to see competitive FPS gameplay you are more likely to find it from blockbuster FPS games that have millions of players than in Darkfall with its few thousand players.
As a more general remark for the thread. If you need someone to convince everyone else is wrong and the game is a gem in hiding, there really must be something wrong with the game. Even the most silly things will get popular if they are well executed and generally interesting (see e.g. Minecraft). At present not enough people are suggesting the game to their friends and no amount of "vet talk" will change that. The reality or facts have no significance if those who try the game don't want to continue playing it.
As i said before the issue is the large amount of grind and cause this the miss of a true role, the game is unbalanced toward the hybrid battle mage because is the actual and only viable playstyle.
Why? Simply because the game is build in this way. Since the actual specialization is useless everyone (at least 95% of the actual playerbase) is a battlemage, because the game allow you to be competitive only if you have melee/archery/magic/crafting.
Think about it, melee 2h weapon is mandatory for close combat, archery because magic don't work underwater, and magic as closed range weapon on land. Also i don't mention all the buffs of every magic school that give you and advantage, blinds, roots and so on.
And the last one, the crafting, to protect your gear you have to raise maintenance through crafting. Crating is a time consuming because to do it you have to gather raw, and is a very slow and tedious work. Everything in this game is time consuming, always when you die in a battle is difficult to come back in a reasonable amount of time.
Tl;dr, everything is this game is linked, so there isn't a role at all but more skill you have more versatile and strong you are.
Is because people wait 2.0, where we hope there will be a deep role and specialization system and not the feel to raise every skill, no more hybrids, no more battlemages but a lot of different playstyles with dedicated armours. I still have hopes for this because i really like this game and i want it succed.
well, personally, I like that hybrids are dominant in pvp rather than one particular playstyle. I think DF is well balanced in that regard because when you have a class based pvp game there are ALWAYS imbalances. Classes are what makes a pvp game imbalanced. In DF your role is defined by the armor and weapons you wear and your playstyle, not something you are stuck with because you picked a certain class on the character creation screen.
You would be amazed at how many people think they could be pro at a video game if they just took the time, they think all it takes to be good at a game like starcraft2 is time investment. DF isn't just time investment training a character, you have to spend time getting good. DF is obviously hard, the mobs are harder, the pvp is harder, and when things are hard, people will naturally cry about it.
Just because some cry about how hard the game is for them personally, doesn't mean the game is neccessarily flawed. I actually think DF has become too easy, it is too easy for stupid players to make a good character. I don't care about tons of subs from terrible players like WoW has, I would rathar know that the people I'm playing with have what it takes to be competitive and play a hardcore pvpmmorpg. If i wanted to play with a bunch of instant-gratification babies, I would play any other mmorpg on the market. Darkfall is such a good game that even the wussies and spoiled kids who it wasn't designed for want to play some aspect of it. I'm very thankful that the people I meet in DF are, for the most part, quality.
Doesn't that just make perfect sense?
The tears will never stop and there is nothing AV can do about it without ruining the game for the people who it was meant for (non-wussies).
There are plenty of other posts in this thread that demonstrate the difference between the people who "get it", the people who DF was meant for, and the rejects who naturally feel the need to cry about something when they feel it is too hard for them. This is what happens when a gaming company finally makes a game that caters to hard-mode players instead of the easymode, instant-gratification types that comprise the majority of the gamer demographic. The differences are minimal, smaller than any other pvpmmorpg between newer player and vet, yet STILL some people continue to blame the game for why they suck at pvp.
In any game that you find yourself dying in, It is always FAR, FAR easier to blame the game than blame yourself and try think of what you could be doing differently to become better as a player, instead of becomming a useless forum crybaby, complaining that things are too hard and differences are too great to overcome in a video game.
Here's the problem with Darkfall: By the nature of the game, 1/4th the players in it don't get to have fun. It's not possible, unless you enjoy being killed, being looted, being victimized, losing all your stuff... and essentially being a nonfactor anywhere you go.
Out of all the active players in the game, 1/4th of them are trash compared to the other 3/4ths. Any PvP encounter they have, they will die and not have fun. They are the noobs or the bad. Doesn't matter which: you play Darkfall, you won't have fun.
New players are extremely likely to be in this bottom 1/4th. So they leave and the game doesn't grow.
This is the MMO Credo: Successful MMOs are fueled by Veteran's tears... not Casual's. Darkfall caters to the best and gives the best player experience to the greatest skilled/developed character while carrying the unspoken expectation that those on the other end will allow themselves to have a miserable time and not leave the game.
If Darkfall 2.0 wants to make a splash - they need to FOCUS on making the gaming experience of the bottom 1/4th as enjoyable as possible. How they'll do that, I have no idea. I doubt they'll even try.
Oh, I can see why this game is dead if you are indicative of the average person who plays.
You don't have to be a wuss not to enjoy a game that's set up to be a new/bad/casual player's hell. You just have to be a new/bad/casual player. And the fact Darkfall probably has about 1-2k players left is a testiment to how ineffective their model was. You seem to have what you want though - a hardcore MMO with a dedicated, skilled and VERY elite/tiny playerbase. Why are you here, trying to court us wussies/spoiled children who played for a month or two and were just not "hardcore" enough to hack it?
There's a rumour circulating the tavern....darkfall vets are campaigning to bring in some fresh meat for the meat grinder.....shh......you never heard it from me
All jokes aside, 1st time i wanted to try darkfall i really did hear people saying this in the official forum. That added to the numerous lengthy adventurine betrayal folklore almost turn me off. But i did manage to secure back my meatball and give the game a trial.
For me as a new player experience feedback
"They need to improve the effing UI"
Conclusion : Waiting for adventurine to finish betraying the player trust fund and release darkfall 2.0
PS. The "I can never be as good as those no life vet player or botter" mentality do sink in a little into my puddle of fear.
Here is the truth:
I played DF since beta and am universally acclaimed the greatest DF pvp player ever. People are in awe of me. So when I say something about this game, you know that it's coming from a true authority.
There is no such thing as skill in DF. It's all about how much you play. DF takes absolutely no special talent or ability.