Wow, a game feature that some people find insulting, gotta check that out for sure!
Yes, it's insulting.
Why?
Because BW thinks players all of a sudden need another progress bar to watch (and trust me, it is) where they earn "Social Points" (experience points) based on how often they group (and what they do in that group).
Are you freaking kidding me?!
Have we, as players, become so anti-social or lazy, that we need a system like this in our MMOs?
Yes. Players are generally too focused on gaining exp or finding loot with the best stats. Weren't multiplayer games supposed to be about playing together? Anything which encourages this, arbeit in a rather false and awkward way, is a good thing.
It's insulting. So what? Not to you. To the community as a whole perhaps.. but why be so offended when it pretty much is a deserved 'insult'?
Not been a fan of SWTOR.. but this is an interesting idea.
Put it this way it is like saying 'why are they putting in a new feature to promote social play, it's a mmorg it should have features to support social play.
After all my ranting, that's exactly the question I'm asking.
The whole "Social Points" system in SW:TOR is really mind boggling when you think about it.
*snip*
The more I think about it, the more insulted I am.
Bioware is basically saying: "Hey guys, we made this really awesome single player RPG with some multiplayer options sprinkled throughout the experience, but to be honest, it's not enough if we're going to be charging people $15 a month to play. So instead of actually designing a game that would make group play fluid and natural, we're giving you the 'Social Points' system. Every time you group up with other players and do, you know, group-y things, you'll earn social points that you can spend on vanity items."
Is this really where we are with MMOs in 2012?
Developers throwing shiny loot at players to try and encourage them to group up in a multiplayer game!?
Wow, a game feature that some people find insulting, gotta check that out for sure!
Yes, it's insulting.
Why?
Because BW thinks players all of a sudden need another progress bar to watch (and trust me, it is) where they earn "Social Points" (experience points) based on how often they group (and what they do in that group).
Are you freaking kidding me?!
Have we, as players, become so anti-social or lazy, that we need a system like this in our MMOs?
Now we get experience points and loot just for grouping up?! Because we're now incapable of doing it on our own, and naturally when the game calls for it?
Pure fluff. Pure BS fluff. That's all it is.
Maybe, just maybe they are trying to promote social gameplay because there are almost as many people playing MMOs that are jerks as there are trolls on forums like these that think only their way is the appropriate way to play a game. So anti-social? Reading your last line there I would have to say yes. Thank you for illustrating your own point so well.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Oddly enough, in thinking about this a little more - is it simply a case of attempting to make the game appear more like a MMORPG than a SPORPG? I mean, honestly - look at how much focus has been on the personal story - playing with your companions - etc, etc, etc. To many people, it has been coming off as a single player game that you play online...with a side of other people.
To combat that, hey - we've got this system that rewards folks for being social... cause, yeah - we're a MMORPG not a SPORPG.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Hating to answer to your hated example, oh concerned thread starter: WoW Vanilla had tons of quest chains, I am not sure what kind of Classic WoW you played. Ever tried to get access to one of the classic endgame dungeons? Black Rock anyone? Molten Core? Class Quests? Endgame crafting? Even the classic Alterac BG had quest chains.
As was mentioned before, you can easily do those, just take a step back, have fun playing with whomever you play, and stop caring about progressing asap. Progress will come eventually, fun in the game will not, it depends on your own choices and their consequences.
Oddly enough, in thinking about this a little more - is it simply a case of attempting to make the game appear more like a MMORPG than a SPORPG? I mean, honestly - look at how much focus has been on the personal story - playing with your companions - etc, etc, etc. To many people, it has been coming off as a single player game that you play online...with a side of other people.
To combat that, hey - we've got this system that rewards folks for being social... cause, yeah - we're a MMORPG not a SPORPG.
Wow. Another "It's not an MMO" post. How original. Here I thought people had actually given up on that garbage.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Oddly enough, in thinking about this a little more - is it simply a case of attempting to make the game appear more like a MMORPG than a SPORPG? I mean, honestly - look at how much focus has been on the personal story - playing with your companions - etc, etc, etc. To many people, it has been coming off as a single player game that you play online...with a side of other people.
To combat that, hey - we've got this system that rewards folks for being social... cause, yeah - we're a MMORPG not a SPORPG.
Wow. Another "It's not an MMO" post. How original. Here I thought people had actually given up on that garbage.
Where did I state that it was not a MMO in my post? If one were actually to read what I stated, I said that mention of such a system would be a means to countering the people that have stated that it is more of a single player game online.
I do not actually say it is not a MMORPG...do I?
So please...ahem...l2read.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I'm not deeply involved with SRTOR yet like you guys. For me it's still too early to get all hyped, but soon.
I've played most every mmo on the list in the past few years. With that, only a few are really mmo's. To me mmo's have to be group friendly, not just a solo game with other people on the screen.
Here is a small list of Real mmo's. I'm not even saying I like them, just group friendly. Understand I may have missed a few, but my list none the less.
EQ1, EQ2, DAOC, D@D Online, Vinella WoW, Vanguard ( you just have to know how to find friends )....Thats it, my list !
There are two issues that really haunt me :
1) Chain Quest- THIS ISSUE IS NEVER EVER DISCUSSED. This issue kills mmo grouping to the max. Take part one to do part two.
I'm now playing Rift. For now I like the game. It's ALL ABOUT CHAIN QUEST. Both my friend and I are playing together and we realized we have to match every quest one for one to play together. No one can play with us because of chain quest. We tried to play with others, and it most always fails. Many people don't like Rift, they find it boring. BUT no one ever thinks deeply as to why they don't like it......I know why !.....It's a solo game, unless you max level ! Joe is on quest 146 and Bob is on quest 151. Joe can't play with Bob. As time goes on, ten days in Bob quits because the game is boring. Never realizing why !
I hate to use Vanilla WoW as an example. It was popular because Joe and Bob can take quest a,b,c,d,e,f,g and they can play together Or take a day off and continue playing. Joe and Bob can have a meaningful Guild, and a healthy friends list.
Making a dungeon finder, Rift invasions, or PvP battle grounds DOES NOT CUT IT....They are mini games, simple as that !
2) Voice acting- This was my concern with SWTOR from the start. Yes, it makes the game personal. Many will love it. Many will not !......At first I would think, maybe it's just me, its still in pre-release. But reviews and leaks are confirming my concern.
Voice acting and personal instancing can kill an mmo. The real Star Wars fans will love it, the others will find it boring and quit. Just like Star Trek.
There are two kinds of chain quests that we know of so far in TOR. That is your personal class story and world group story quests.
The personal class story is a chain linked to you and only you. You can play in a group of 4 if you want, but only you can make dialogue choices and they will only be your quests. The chain will last for 3 chapters at launch and take you from level 1 to level 50 if you want it too, or do everything else along the way. Daniel Erickson has said that this type of quest will be about 60% of the starter planet, 40% of the home planet and less and less as you move to different planets.
The world group stories are multi-hour long chain quests for a full group. It is a story that should be attached to the different planets you will be going to. They are not a part of your personal story, but designed as a faction story for everyone. These can only be run once as your quest, but we don't know if you can just tag along with others to help even after you have done the chain.
The other types of quests are the open world general questing. I don't know if these will be chains, but I doubt it. We also know that there are heroic quests needing 2 to 4 players by what the press beta testers have put into articles. But these will just be open world quests that you can join anytime. We also know that there are Flashpoints (dungeons). These are repeatable, so I wouldn't think they would have chains attached. There could also be other instances we don't know about that are not flashpoints, but no one has talked about anything like that yet.
So there will be a lot of personal class story chains, but this will not stop you from questing with others. If you have seen many of the dev walkthroughs or other videos, you can see that the world is an open world. Players are running around and questing in many of the same areas. You can and many will join others to complete the quests faster. Cutting down the time for the bonus quests. Also it makes sense that while you are questing for your personal class quests, you should be able to join others for the open world at the same time.
Nothing will prevent you from doing exactly what you did in those games you listed. It will be the same thing, only with VO cutscenes with dialogue choice for quest pick ups and turn ins. And for your personal story, having to run into one of those rooms/areas shown with the green film will not take that long. Look at the dev walkthroughs. It didn't take that long to get in and out of the areas. So you can do both open world and your story in a group. And it may be even easier to not do the open world, just your class quests if your friends are not online. Then continue with the open world quests when they get back. Oh and confirmed no Dungeon Finder in TOR form the swtor forums.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I have to ask, how exactly does voice acting kill a MMO?
I've heard multiple times how voice acting is supposed to be bad but I've yet to hear about an actual reason why this is the case. Thus far it seems more like complaining that adding colour killed good movies.....
Voice acting isn't "bad" but it makes it harder to change content. If they want to add a choice where if you pick a good option your character says something different. They need to bring the voice actor in to read those new lines. Any added content from seasonal patches to full blown expansions needs those people back to do the voices.
Bioware could skip the voices and simply alter the text, but then that would be strange. Voiceworks fine for singleplayer games because they don't need a constant flow of updates to keep the game fresh. MMO's need constant updating. And not all of it has to have new voices, but they will need it. And I think that the fully voiced aspect is going to be a negative in the long run. It doesn't allow for last minute changes because there is editing and lip syncing to be done after the voice is recorded. Where with text, you could change what a character says the day before the patch comes out.
All the important voice actors are on long-term contracts.
Besides this basically applies to any MMO feature we now regard as required in an AAA MMO.
3D Graphics? Can no longer easily add content, need to make thousands of models and textures first. Can no longer change areas the day before the patch comes out. Where with 2D graphics or even text you could much more easily make major changes.
Balanced combat system? Can no longer easily add abilities or change existing ones. You need hours of testing and tweaking before you can add or change anything. Can't just change abilities teh day before a patch, they'll need a week of testing first.
Stable game that doesn't crash? Can no longer make quick and easy changes to the engine. They first need thousands of hours of work and bug-testing before anything can be updated. Engine changes the day before a patch? Forget it, a month is too short a time.
There's plenty of MUDs around if you want easily updateable games. Personally, I don't mind at all that the developers are putting some serious effort into their content.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
The whole "Social Points" system in SW:TOR is really mind boggling when you think about it.
Seriously, think about it for a few minutes.
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
Let me repeat that again:
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
One more time?
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
I completely agree!
Built-in features to encourage group play? Screw that shit!
Guilds? Hah! Get your guilds out of my MMO this freaking minute! I don't want no pansy-ass feature that allows and even promotes people to play in groups!
Chat? Who needs that crap? This is a MMO! I don't need your group-encouraging features!
LFG-tools? WHAAT!? Why'd I need tools to encourage group play!? This is a MMO dude!
Parties? Raids? Dude, what are you talking about? What could possible be the use of such features that encourage group play by making it easier and integrating it into the game's UI. I want some of what you're smoking, seriously!
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
In my 4 or 5 years of experience in playing only mmo's. Ive learned several things :
90% of mmo players are casual players
90% of mmo players are shy.
90% of mmo players, do not know how to utilize all of an mmo's futures. If an mmo is loaded with too many features its even higher.
90% of mmo players will quit if features are not handed to them. They will call the game boring,
90% of the mmo players will take advantage of features if asked by a personal tell.
If SWTOR is too personal story based. This will cause more of a problem with finding people to group with.
FACT, If your here on mmorpg.com you are of the other 10%. Your a go- getter. You will take advantage of an mmo's features. You will seek out group play. Understand that we are the minority. We are the hard core !
Vanilla WoW was popular and excelled above other mmo's because they used the easy casual no pressure approach of grouping. EVERY zone you were able to take quest a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h quest. VERY SIMPLE, YOU DID NOT HAVE TO USE COMPLICATED FEATURES. If someone was doing quest c others would see that, come to help because they were on quest c also " you would make a friend ". Quest f,g,h would be harder quest in a zone ( red quest ) the shy player would feel no pressure and ask for help, because if was more comfortable to ask if a game was set up that way. Vanilla wow, and maybe EQ2 was set up without completed features...AND ALL OTHER MMO'S BEYOND STARTED TO ADD CRAP that the casual player would not use. Therefore most every other mmo fails.
I proved how shy people are from playing Vanguard with its low player base. People say Vanguard is a lonely game. People will not use features given to them. They would ask once to find a group in open chat, then give up, quit and say the game sucks. Instead I would use the Social panel, advanced find feature and play with everyone, get groups for anything within 10 min of searching....Yet no one will use this approach to find others.
To make a long story short Vanilla WoW was the only game that got casual player game right. They used a natural way of bringing people together. High tech crap never worked.
Simple math, loose the 90%, you have another dead mmo !!!!
In my 4 or 5 years of experience in playing only mmo's. Ive learned several things :
90% of mmo players are casual players
90% of mmo players are shy.
90% of mmo players, do not know how to utilize all of an mmo's futures. If an mmo is loaded with too many features its even higher.
90% of mmo players will quit if features are not handed to them. They will call the game boring,
90% of the mmo players will take advantage of features if asked by a personal tell.
If SWTOR is too personal story based. This will cause more of a problem with finding people to group with.
FACT, If your here on mmorpg.com you are of the other 10%. Your a go- getter. You will take advantage of an mmo's features. You will seek out group play. Understand that we are the minority. We are the hard core !
FACT, 90% of the 'facts' in the above post are completely made up.
FACT, 90% of the 'facts' in this post, including this one, are completely made up.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
In my 4 or 5 years of experience in playing only mmo's. Ive learned several things :
90% of mmo players are casual players
90% of mmo players are shy.
90% of mmo players, do not know how to utilize all of an mmo's futures. If an mmo is loaded with too many features its even higher.
90% of mmo players will quit if features are not handed to them. They will call the game boring,
90% of the mmo players will take advantage of features if asked by a personal tell.
If SWTOR is too personal story based. This will cause more of a problem with finding people to group with.
FACT, If your here on mmorpg.com you are of the other 10%. Your a go- getter. You will take advantage of an mmo's features. You will seek out group play. Understand that we are the minority. We are the hard core !
FACT, 90% of the 'facts' in the above post are completely made up.
FACT, 90% of the 'facts' in this post are completely made up.
I definitely found your post to be more factual...90% of the time.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I'm not deeply involved with SRTOR yet like you guys. For me it's still too early to get all hyped, but soon.
I've played most every mmo on the list in the past few years. With that, only a few are really mmo's. To me mmo's have to be group friendly, not just a solo game with other people on the screen.
Here is a small list of Real mmo's. I'm not even saying I like them, just group friendly. Understand I may have missed a few, but my list none the less.
EQ1, EQ2, DAOC, D@D Online, Vinella WoW, Vanguard ( you just have to know how to find friends )....Thats it, my list !
There are two issues that really haunt me :
1) Chain Quest- THIS ISSUE IS NEVER EVER DISCUSSED. This issue kills mmo grouping to the max. Take part one to do part two.
I'm now playing Rift. For now I like the game. It's ALL ABOUT CHAIN QUEST. Both my friend and I are playing together and we realized we have to match every quest one for one to play together. No one can play with us because of chain quest. We tried to play with others, and it most always fails. Many people don't like Rift, they find it boring. BUT no one ever thinks deeply as to why they don't like it......I know why !.....It's a solo game, unless you max level ! Joe is on quest 146 and Bob is on quest 151. Joe can't play with Bob. As time goes on, ten days in Bob quits because the game is boring. Never realizing why !
I hate to use Vanilla WoW as an example. It was popular because Joe and Bob can take quest a,b,c,d,e,f,g and they can play together Or take a day off and continue playing. Joe and Bob can have a meaningful Guild, and a healthy friends list.
Making a dungeon finder, Rift invasions, or PvP battle grounds DOES NOT CUT IT....They are mini games, simple as that !
In the Q&A they did recently, they led me to believe that other players can enter your class quests, but they can't "vote" on the dialogue. Obviously those players, unless they're the same class, can't possibly have the quest, yet there they are in the room with the quest owner. So there's not much reason to believe you're barred from world quest instances if you don't have the mission.
Aside from the class quests, chains don't really occur in the same way that, say, LotRO's do, where you get the quests from the same guy one by one by one after the other and you can't get the same quest as the guy who's 3 quests ahead of you. Matter of fact, NPC's generally only have one quest apiece. There's no running back and forth; objectives update in the field.
Now, do you get quest credit for it? I don't know. If you do, I assume the mission is then completed for your character and can't be repeated solo. If you don't, I assume you CAN still get the mission on your own. Or at least, that's the way it SHOULD be.
OP is talking about story quest when he refers to chain quest in Rift. The quest that were in yellow that indicated that these were the ones you wanted to read. All the other Blue quest were the normal gather xget y stuff you see people always qq'n about.
ToR is heavily chained. Can anyone name a game that did not have "chain" quest as a way to tell a story? Hell even when Aion launched with no quest at all they still had campaign quest that were chained together. Every other quest was a repeat 200 times grind fest lol
OP is talking about story quest when he refers to chain quest in Rift. The quest that were in yellow that indicated that these were the ones you wanted to read. All the other Blue quest were the normal gather xget y stuff you see people always qq'n about.
ToR is heavily chained. Can anyone name a game that did not have "chain" quest as a way to tell a story? Hell even when Aion launched with no quest at all they still had campaign quest that were chained together. Every other quest was a repeat 200 times grind fest lol
Wait a minute, Aion had quests.
However, your point is taken. Still, unless one is aiming for non-traditional story telling, most stories go from point A to point B to point C. Gotta connect those points with something!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
OP is talking about story quest when he refers to chain quest in Rift. The quest that were in yellow that indicated that these were the ones you wanted to read. All the other Blue quest were the normal gather xget y stuff you see people always qq'n about.
ToR is heavily chained. Can anyone name a game that did not have "chain" quest as a way to tell a story? Hell even when Aion launched with no quest at all they still had campaign quest that were chained together. Every other quest was a repeat 200 times grind fest lol
TOR's class quests are certainly chained. Pretty sure the devs have stated several times that they're meant to be solo'd, so chaining shouldn't matter. And yet, at least according to that last Q&A, Other players are allowed into the class instance with the quest owner.
I suppose I might rethink my view on the open world quests being chained. Even though all the quests are on different NPC's, I imagine you can't step onto the planet for the first time, stroll up to the grand finale QG and grab the quest. But it seems to me you should still be able to participate with someone who DOES have it. I don't suppose any of our NDA lifted site hosts have the answer?
The whole "Social Points" system in SW:TOR is really mind boggling when you think about it.
Seriously, think about it for a few minutes.
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
Let me repeat that again:
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
One more time?
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
I completely agree!
Built-in features to encourage group play? Screw that shit!
Guilds? Hah! Get your guilds out of my MMO this freaking minute! I don't want no pansy-ass feature that allows and even promotes people to play in groups!
Chat? Who needs that crap? This is a MMO! I don't need your group-encouraging features!
LFG-tools? WHAAT!? Why'd I need tools to encourage group play!? This is a MMO dude!
Parties? Raids? Dude, what are you talking about? What could possible be the use of such features that encourage group play by making it easier and integrating it into the game's UI. I want some of what you're smoking, seriously!
You totally missed the point. Read the post you quoted again, and this time, really think about it. Think of an MMORPG as the olympics, and everyone competing in the olympics is an MMORPG-player. Now, imagine that the olympics had to come up with a way to encourage competition.
The whole "Social Points" system in SW:TOR is really mind boggling when you think about it.
Seriously, think about it for a few minutes.
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
Let me repeat that again:
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
One more time?
A MMORPG has a built-in feature to encourage group play.
I completely agree!
Built-in features to encourage group play? Screw that shit!
Guilds? Hah! Get your guilds out of my MMO this freaking minute! I don't want no pansy-ass feature that allows and even promotes people to play in groups!
Chat? Who needs that crap? This is a MMO! I don't need your group-encouraging features!
LFG-tools? WHAAT!? Why'd I need tools to encourage group play!? This is a MMO dude!
Parties? Raids? Dude, what are you talking about? What could possible be the use of such features that encourage group play by making it easier and integrating it into the game's UI. I want some of what you're smoking, seriously!
You totally missed the point. Read the post you quoted again, and this time, really think about it. Think of an MMORPG as the olympics, and everyone competing in the olympics is an MMORPG-player. Now, imagine that the olympics had to come up with a way to encourage competition.
Like say medals and money for the winners?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
You totally missed the point. Read the post you quoted again, and this time, really think about it. Think of an MMORPG as the olympics, and everyone competing in the olympics is an MMORPG-player. Now, imagine that the olympics had to come up with a way to encourage competition.
Allllright...
While I do that, I'll ask you to think of a 1970 Ford Maverick as a mailbox.
What does encouraging competition have to do with encouraging grouping?
You totally missed the point. Read the post you quoted again, and this time, really think about it. Think of an MMORPG as the olympics, and everyone competing in the olympics is an MMORPG-player. Now, imagine that the olympics had to come up with a way to encourage competition.
Allllright...
While I do that, I'll ask you to think of a 1970 Ford Maverick as a mailbox.
What does encouraging grouping have to do with encouraging competition?
If the olympics had to encourage competition, something is obviously wrong with it, since the olympics is all about competition.
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Yes. Players are generally too focused on gaining exp or finding loot with the best stats. Weren't multiplayer games supposed to be about playing together? Anything which encourages this, arbeit in a rather false and awkward way, is a good thing.
It's insulting. So what? Not to you. To the community as a whole perhaps.. but why be so offended when it pretty much is a deserved 'insult'?
Not been a fan of SWTOR.. but this is an interesting idea.
After all my ranting, that's exactly the question I'm asking.
Maybe, just maybe they are trying to promote social gameplay because there are almost as many people playing MMOs that are jerks as there are trolls on forums like these that think only their way is the appropriate way to play a game. So anti-social? Reading your last line there I would have to say yes. Thank you for illustrating your own point so well.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Oddly enough, in thinking about this a little more - is it simply a case of attempting to make the game appear more like a MMORPG than a SPORPG? I mean, honestly - look at how much focus has been on the personal story - playing with your companions - etc, etc, etc. To many people, it has been coming off as a single player game that you play online...with a side of other people.
To combat that, hey - we've got this system that rewards folks for being social... cause, yeah - we're a MMORPG not a SPORPG.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Hating to answer to your hated example, oh concerned thread starter: WoW Vanilla had tons of quest chains, I am not sure what kind of Classic WoW you played. Ever tried to get access to one of the classic endgame dungeons? Black Rock anyone? Molten Core? Class Quests? Endgame crafting? Even the classic Alterac BG had quest chains.
As was mentioned before, you can easily do those, just take a step back, have fun playing with whomever you play, and stop caring about progressing asap. Progress will come eventually, fun in the game will not, it depends on your own choices and their consequences.
Wow. Another "It's not an MMO" post. How original. Here I thought people had actually given up on that garbage.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Where did I state that it was not a MMO in my post? If one were actually to read what I stated, I said that mention of such a system would be a means to countering the people that have stated that it is more of a single player game online.
I do not actually say it is not a MMORPG...do I?
So please...ahem...l2read.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
There are two kinds of chain quests that we know of so far in TOR. That is your personal class story and world group story quests.
The personal class story is a chain linked to you and only you. You can play in a group of 4 if you want, but only you can make dialogue choices and they will only be your quests. The chain will last for 3 chapters at launch and take you from level 1 to level 50 if you want it too, or do everything else along the way. Daniel Erickson has said that this type of quest will be about 60% of the starter planet, 40% of the home planet and less and less as you move to different planets.
The world group stories are multi-hour long chain quests for a full group. It is a story that should be attached to the different planets you will be going to. They are not a part of your personal story, but designed as a faction story for everyone. These can only be run once as your quest, but we don't know if you can just tag along with others to help even after you have done the chain.
The other types of quests are the open world general questing. I don't know if these will be chains, but I doubt it. We also know that there are heroic quests needing 2 to 4 players by what the press beta testers have put into articles. But these will just be open world quests that you can join anytime. We also know that there are Flashpoints (dungeons). These are repeatable, so I wouldn't think they would have chains attached. There could also be other instances we don't know about that are not flashpoints, but no one has talked about anything like that yet.
So there will be a lot of personal class story chains, but this will not stop you from questing with others. If you have seen many of the dev walkthroughs or other videos, you can see that the world is an open world. Players are running around and questing in many of the same areas. You can and many will join others to complete the quests faster. Cutting down the time for the bonus quests. Also it makes sense that while you are questing for your personal class quests, you should be able to join others for the open world at the same time.
Nothing will prevent you from doing exactly what you did in those games you listed. It will be the same thing, only with VO cutscenes with dialogue choice for quest pick ups and turn ins. And for your personal story, having to run into one of those rooms/areas shown with the green film will not take that long. Look at the dev walkthroughs. It didn't take that long to get in and out of the areas. So you can do both open world and your story in a group. And it may be even easier to not do the open world, just your class quests if your friends are not online. Then continue with the open world quests when they get back. Oh and confirmed no Dungeon Finder in TOR form the swtor forums.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
All the important voice actors are on long-term contracts.
Besides this basically applies to any MMO feature we now regard as required in an AAA MMO.
3D Graphics? Can no longer easily add content, need to make thousands of models and textures first. Can no longer change areas the day before the patch comes out. Where with 2D graphics or even text you could much more easily make major changes.
Balanced combat system? Can no longer easily add abilities or change existing ones. You need hours of testing and tweaking before you can add or change anything. Can't just change abilities teh day before a patch, they'll need a week of testing first.
Stable game that doesn't crash? Can no longer make quick and easy changes to the engine. They first need thousands of hours of work and bug-testing before anything can be updated. Engine changes the day before a patch? Forget it, a month is too short a time.
There's plenty of MUDs around if you want easily updateable games. Personally, I don't mind at all that the developers are putting some serious effort into their content.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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I completely agree!
Built-in features to encourage group play? Screw that shit!
Guilds? Hah! Get your guilds out of my MMO this freaking minute! I don't want no pansy-ass feature that allows and even promotes people to play in groups!
Chat? Who needs that crap? This is a MMO! I don't need your group-encouraging features!
LFG-tools? WHAAT!? Why'd I need tools to encourage group play!? This is a MMO dude!
Parties? Raids? Dude, what are you talking about? What could possible be the use of such features that encourage group play by making it easier and integrating it into the game's UI. I want some of what you're smoking, seriously!
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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In my 4 or 5 years of experience in playing only mmo's. Ive learned several things :
90% of mmo players are casual players
90% of mmo players are shy.
90% of mmo players, do not know how to utilize all of an mmo's futures. If an mmo is loaded with too many features its even higher.
90% of mmo players will quit if features are not handed to them. They will call the game boring,
90% of the mmo players will take advantage of features if asked by a personal tell.
If SWTOR is too personal story based. This will cause more of a problem with finding people to group with.
FACT, If your here on mmorpg.com you are of the other 10%. Your a go- getter. You will take advantage of an mmo's features. You will seek out group play. Understand that we are the minority. We are the hard core !
Vanilla WoW was popular and excelled above other mmo's because they used the easy casual no pressure approach of grouping. EVERY zone you were able to take quest a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h quest. VERY SIMPLE, YOU DID NOT HAVE TO USE COMPLICATED FEATURES. If someone was doing quest c others would see that, come to help because they were on quest c also " you would make a friend ". Quest f,g,h would be harder quest in a zone ( red quest ) the shy player would feel no pressure and ask for help, because if was more comfortable to ask if a game was set up that way. Vanilla wow, and maybe EQ2 was set up without completed features...AND ALL OTHER MMO'S BEYOND STARTED TO ADD CRAP that the casual player would not use. Therefore most every other mmo fails.
I proved how shy people are from playing Vanguard with its low player base. People say Vanguard is a lonely game. People will not use features given to them. They would ask once to find a group in open chat, then give up, quit and say the game sucks. Instead I would use the Social panel, advanced find feature and play with everyone, get groups for anything within 10 min of searching....Yet no one will use this approach to find others.
To make a long story short Vanilla WoW was the only game that got casual player game right. They used a natural way of bringing people together. High tech crap never worked.
Simple math, loose the 90%, you have another dead mmo !!!!
FACT, 90% of the 'facts' in the above post are completely made up.
FACT, 90% of the 'facts' in this post, including this one, are completely made up.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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I definitely found your post to be more factual...90% of the time.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
In the Q&A they did recently, they led me to believe that other players can enter your class quests, but they can't "vote" on the dialogue. Obviously those players, unless they're the same class, can't possibly have the quest, yet there they are in the room with the quest owner. So there's not much reason to believe you're barred from world quest instances if you don't have the mission.
Aside from the class quests, chains don't really occur in the same way that, say, LotRO's do, where you get the quests from the same guy one by one by one after the other and you can't get the same quest as the guy who's 3 quests ahead of you. Matter of fact, NPC's generally only have one quest apiece. There's no running back and forth; objectives update in the field.
Now, do you get quest credit for it? I don't know. If you do, I assume the mission is then completed for your character and can't be repeated solo. If you don't, I assume you CAN still get the mission on your own. Or at least, that's the way it SHOULD be.
I second that! there are already PLENTY of tools in most PUG's!
OP is talking about story quest when he refers to chain quest in Rift. The quest that were in yellow that indicated that these were the ones you wanted to read. All the other Blue quest were the normal gather xget y stuff you see people always qq'n about.
ToR is heavily chained. Can anyone name a game that did not have "chain" quest as a way to tell a story? Hell even when Aion launched with no quest at all they still had campaign quest that were chained together. Every other quest was a repeat 200 times grind fest lol
Wait a minute, Aion had quests.
However, your point is taken. Still, unless one is aiming for non-traditional story telling, most stories go from point A to point B to point C. Gotta connect those points with something!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
TOR's class quests are certainly chained. Pretty sure the devs have stated several times that they're meant to be solo'd, so chaining shouldn't matter. And yet, at least according to that last Q&A, Other players are allowed into the class instance with the quest owner.
I suppose I might rethink my view on the open world quests being chained. Even though all the quests are on different NPC's, I imagine you can't step onto the planet for the first time, stroll up to the grand finale QG and grab the quest. But it seems to me you should still be able to participate with someone who DOES have it. I don't suppose any of our NDA lifted site hosts have the answer?
The US version, sure. Dunno about the original Korean(?) one.
You totally missed the point. Read the post you quoted again, and this time, really think about it. Think of an MMORPG as the olympics, and everyone competing in the olympics is an MMORPG-player. Now, imagine that the olympics had to come up with a way to encourage competition.
Like say medals and money for the winners?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Allllright...
While I do that, I'll ask you to think of a 1970 Ford Maverick as a mailbox.
What does encouraging competition have to do with encouraging grouping?
Do not worries there will be lots moar mmos to come if ya dont like this one
C
If the olympics had to encourage competition, something is obviously wrong with it, since the olympics is all about competition.