The first movies followed a much simpler storyline that had elements at the background such as the darkside etc. In the very first movie the sith were barely mentioned at all, and DarthVader was more just an evil villian who had once been a jedi. Never was it implied that the sith was some kind of cult or movement at all. As i recall correctly it was also not mentioned that the emperor had anything to do with the force.This was all fine, as the story at the forground was interesting enough.
But i think the later 3 movies were simply poorly written. First of all the whole purpose of those movies is very unclear when you look at the result. Very little was actually explained and the depth of the characters was minimal at best. Especially ep1 had very, very little impact on the overall storyline. Basicly all the crucial stuff from ep1 could be put in a few short dialogue scenes within ep2. imho the result of the poor writing is the that the sith are poorly explained and therefore not understood by people who are not interested in the extended universe. I could spend pages on this, but I rather refer to the redlettermedia reviews, especially the one on ep3. Many starwars fans simply bash these reviews without even watching them, or pick on the first one because it is the most easy to pick on. Imho the review on ep3 explains very clearly what went wrong with the prequels and by that also draws the light in which one should understand the other reviews on ep1 and 2. its a very technical perspective on filmmaking, but notheless very interesting.
this is not to bash starwars fans or anything, but check the review on ep3:
Wanna know why sith are evil reade the expanded universe. The sith believe in following emotion yes. The problem is they to often let those emotions rule them.
Sith philosophy doesnt sound all bad till u get into the fact that if u arent human u arent worth having equal rights. All species other then humans to them are only good as slaves. thats evil.
They dont just want to follow there emotions or the other tenants of the sith. They want to rule the universe much like hitler and napolean. They want to form empires where the population is forced to live in fear of them every day fo there lives.
Sith not only kill for no reason other then they feel like it they also kill for power. Im sorry but how any can think the sith as a whole arent evil or cant be written as evil is beyond me.
While im not a writer and have issues sometimes getting my thoughts on paper or expalining them well the truth is the sith are evil in every sense of the word.
They kill for pleasure. The fact they kill at will, The sith are serial killers people. They are despots and rule in the vein of some of the worst leaders in human history from staling, to hitler , to napolean bonaparte.
They are as bad as any of these rulers only they have special abilities that make them more powerful then most nomal humans in the star wars universe.
Wanna know why sith are evil reade the expanded universe. The sith believe in following emotion yes. The problem is they to often let those emotions rule them.
Sith philosophy doesnt sound all bad till u get into the fact that if u arent human u arent worth having equal rights. All species other then humans to them are only good as slaves. thats evil.
They dont just want to follow there emotions or the other tenants of the sith. They want to rule the universe much like hitler and napolean. They want to form empires where the population is forced to live in fear of them every day fo there lives.
Sith not only kill for no reason other then they feel like it they also kill for power. Im sorry but how any can think the sith as a whole arent evil or cant be written as evil is beyond me.
While im not a writer and have issues sometimes getting my thoughts on paper or expalining them well the truth is the sith are evil in every sense of the word.
They kill for pleasure. The fact they kill at will, The sith are serial killers people. They are despots and rule in the vein of some of the worst leaders in human history from staling, to hitler , to napolean bonaparte.
They are as bad as any of these rulers only they have special abilities that make them more powerful then most nomal humans in the star wars universe.
Yet disallowing or even comdemning emotions is good? THat is what the jed do they supress their emotions to become purely logical being that find emotion to be a weakness largely. Actually sith do not as a whole kill without reason yet some within the sith group do kill without reason or for power. The idea of gaining power can be also to ensure that others do not use their power for fear of you using your own, or the m.a.d. idea that if you fire a nuke i will and we all die. Killing and defeating an enemy is not evil or good it is an act that can be either based on who you ask. THe part on equal right is in that a group where power is paramount you would need to gain the rights others possess, since they are not innate mostly since those above you earned those rights as such you should as well.
OP, I agree with you that the betrayal concept breaks verisimilitude, but it's fiction. I really think that if you got into the nuts and bolts of why Sith actually works, it comes down to the Dark Side of the Force holding everything together behind the scenes. It's the only way it makes sense, IMO.
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I would hope that it is difficult for a game to show the true sociopathic nature,for a person to be truely evil, without any morals, conscience or compassion. In the end it is the player that would make the character so evil. If the player has this nature, then I hope it is only in game and not in society. As for me, I will try a Sith after time, but I don't think I will play it so well. Thank goodness for that
No the jedi way prior to luke skywalker was very flawed. No attachment, no marriage , no families because they thought they made jedi more adept at falling prey to the dark side were all bad ideals.
Im nto saying jedi are better then sith in all regards. Im saying that sith lords for the most part are sociopaths who live for power and to subjegate others.
Both of these ideals are wrong. The sith are selfish and serial killers on the most basic level and jedi are so into not feeling they forget what it means to be human or alein or to even love.
No i perfer skywalkers jedi where they can marry ahve kids and families to the jedi prior to skywalker. That said the way the sith go about bringing there ideals of passion and emotion to the universe is just the wrong way to do it. instead of showing that love and the good emotions can make people better human beings or whatever species u are they show all the bad about emotions.
They give in to there anger and in doing so hurt maim and kill for no reason whatsoever. The jedi under luke use love to stay away from the dark side. There families make them less likely to fall. Sure jacen was the exception when he fell due to a vision he had of his daughter.
That said both the jedi and sith have huge problems in there ideaology. Mainly the sith err in how they go about things with kiling maiming subjegating and such all of which are pure evil and the jedi forget that love is the one emotion that can make people reach heights they would never achieve without it.
The Sith suffer from mans most dominant emotion...."GREED". The story behind the Sith ideology is that if we let our emotion dictate our logic them we become Sith...G-Lucus wrote Star Wars based off the Nazi ideology and mans ever quest for personal power.
We as humans are not that far off from the Sith as most humans let there emotions control there logic, to become a Jedi or G-Lucus's version is to let ones self control there emotions with logic or a balance in between, never letting one or the other become the dominant side.
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely, that saying holds true for both Jedi and Sith, balance is the Universal key as all things in the Univerise seek balance.
I would hope that it is difficult for a game to show the true sociopathic nature,for a person to be truely evil, without any morals, conscience or compassion. In the end it is the player that would make the character so evil. If the player has this nature, then I hope it is only in game and not in society. As for me, I will try a Sith after time, but I don't think I will play it so well. Thank goodness for that
One has to wonder lol, are people really supressing there true emotion due to fear of the consequences?
I will also try Sith, but in the end I know I can't for the life of me find true enjoyment in acts of uncontrolled emotion..or (evil), to me I feel that people who act out sociopathic behavior in any roleplaying setting needs to get there heads checked..we might have some sleeper agents and they might not even know it.
You know, to bind it back to SWTOR: I am a bit wary of Biowares ability to really make believable evil. Let me bring 2 examples.
First, in Dragon Age Origins, I was supposed to gather help against the Darkspawn and recruit all kind of people. One of these were under siege in some city, forgot the name, so it was logical to help. Not out of goodness, necessarily, but because you NEED every hand and sword. Now, those men in the city have no armor and bad weapons, but there is a blacksmith, who in turn only forges armor and weapons if you promise to look after his lost daughter. Then Morrigan bitches against that and gives you -10, because she is selfish "evil". And that is where I thought "WTF"? Because even for purely selfish reasons: we NEED those men, and we need them in best armour to fight the threat! There was no alternative. And on top, I needed the XP, which of course I can not say.
Second, an exmple Daniel Erickson told about in an interview, explaining the Sith ideology. You are, as Sith, educated by a mentor. Later on a higher up Sith sees you potential, wants you as pupil, and orders you to execute your first mentor. WHY? It just makes no sense even as evil! He is not the "darwinistic weak" who "needs to be wiped out", because he succesfully did what is his function: finding potent recruits! So he is actually good at what his job is! And you just kill a teacher so the Empire has to educate a new teacher. Waste of money and investment! And there would be a plethora of ways to prove your power. It is just where even as evil it makes no sense to me. Killing people just to show how evil you are is not evil, it's just psycho-nuts!
It's not to show "how evil you are" it's to demonstrate the new master won't be handicapping himself by giving you the other guy's job. As for an example of this in society, look to organized crime. They're real, they engage in real criminal activity, they're successful, and the primary method of promotion is to "create an opening." You're focus is too narrow, and you're only looking at this from one angle.
Evil has always been an interest of mine. I read a plethora of books about, what makes a person evil, or what makes people act evil, both based on psychology and philosophy. So the idea - as probably many from a fictional point of view - fascinates me. Now the thing is, I find the Sith ideology TOTALLY and entirely absurd. Even as evil.
The Sith creed is not such a bad core idea. Follow your passion and attain liberty, branding moral as chain and confinement of the will. All human beings have an anti-social desire, a will to power, and thus that is an understandable angle to make evil plausible. However, in the real senarios, almost all Sith act entirely dumb and short sighted. It never really follow that creed, but the Sith practice this "betrayal" as hobby. And that is where it gets absurd. I just can not find it plausible or believable that a society could exist on a concept where every single individual fights only for himself, his own benefit and backstabs everyone at every opportunity. Just like the idea of the Drow from Faerun, such a society would just collaps in no time, and it would have no strength to fight against ANY halfway organized system.
The only glue such a society has, is fear. And while fear sure is a good motivator in short terms, it only works while you literally hold the gun towards that person. The moment you turn away, he stabs you. And that isn't strength, that is merely anarchy. And it goes against everything we know about how humans function. Besides the natural "will to power" humans are also herd animals. Humans never are able so much to do alone as they wish, being alone makes every human being insecure and uncomfortable. All desire a herd to which they want to belong, some stable anker of a peer-group, and no greed or evil can break that fundamental desire. So aside from the fact that such a Sith society would just fall apart and be victim of any organized society, it goes against a fundamental desire, the peer-group belonging. People need faith in others and trust in a "greater good" as much as air to breath; they literally can not function without. All sociological analysis agrees on that.
And there WOULD be a more plausible way to design a Sith empire, and our own history shows that: The Nazi's Third Reich. They were undoubtly very evil, but they did not practice backstabbing, no they had groups they targetted as evil, and used this target to glue the followers together. They created on the contraty very strong feelings of sticking together, of feeling united for a "greater good" (or greater evil rather, but from the inside it was seen as good). That is how I can see evil plausible. Peer pressure to cooperate, to leave individual desires (and with it individual reason) outside by fabricating the idea of a greater cause and also fabricating an enemy. The entire system of propaganda to unite people and strengthening their resolve. Such a society is, as proven, much stronger economically and in war, because their doubts are eliminated, their individual thinking is eliminated, all things which slow down a democratic society, where all things are always questioned and debated, and different interest groups all pull in different directions. The evil of such a Nazi soiecty is, that the individuality is eliminated and all are streamlined. That makes their strength and their evil. And that is an evil I find plausible, because it can "work". It is based on human nature, the true evil potential of humans. But this Sith idea of constant backstabbing or everyone fighting against everyone just would never work in any way, and just sounds like a very childish idea of evil. Like a 6 year old would imagine evil maybe.
So, even if I as roleplayer try to play out something within me that is "bad", the idea of live in a society of constant backstabbing just sounds absurd to me. Thats not evil, thats lunatic.
I would say the Sith creed is embraced by many powerful people today and in the past. They aren't dumb or short-sighted. They have goals and ambitions where most people only have wishes and desires. If you see them that way it's the fault of writer's or your own perception.
As far as betrayal. They betray and deceive the masses of humanity more than each other. That's not to say that they don't betray each other but for the most part they go for easier prey. If country collapses it doesn't matter. They have the money and influence to move elsewhere or wait till the country is rebuilt.
They use fear to motivate the masses to give their consent. A good example is the bailouts happening worldwide. People have been convinced to give up their money and financial sovereignty to avoid financial armageddon. It only has to work short term. Long enough to pass key legislation and to loot public coffers. Then things return to normal for awhile and the cycle is repeated.
This has been refered to as the Hegelian Dialectic or Problem, Reaction, Solution. Basically the elite create a problem, watch the general populace for a reaction and then provide a solution. The sheperds slowly guiding the sheep in the direction they choose. While constant fear might be too stressful for a society, well timed periodic fear is great for motivating people to do what you want.
Look at it this way. They see the majority as less than human or below them. No matter what they do to these people, it doesn't matter because they are animals in their eyes. When they betray each other it is more for personal advancement or to one up each other. Rarely would they take it too the level of destroying one and other. Though this does happen.
The backstabbing written about in your cliche action novel/movie is to give the happy ending. The only way for the lone hero to defeat them is for them to defeat each other through infighting. Makes for a lovely hollywood ending but totally unreleastic. Obviously if it was non-fiction the hero would be promptly executed and the Sith would return to scheming their next plot.
So, even if I as roleplayer try to play out something within me that is "bad", the idea of live in a society of constant backstabbing just sounds absurd to me. Thats not evil, thats lunatic.
Actually that's what life in general is when you look across the full spectrum of it, which is not "evil".
As for what is "evil", that really is only a moral construct used to make people conform within a social group.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Evil has always been an interest of mine. I read a plethora of books about, what makes a person evil, or what makes people act evil, both based on psychology and philosophy. So the idea - as probably many from a fictional point of view - fascinates me. Now the thing is, I find the Sith ideology TOTALLY and entirely absurd. Even as evil.
The Sith creed is not such a bad core idea. Follow your passion and attain liberty, branding moral as chain and confinement of the will. All human beings have an anti-social desire, a will to power, and thus that is an understandable angle to make evil plausible. However, in the real senarios, almost all Sith act entirely dumb and short sighted. It never really follow that creed, but the Sith practice this "betrayal" as hobby. And that is where it gets absurd. I just can not find it plausible or believable that a society could exist on a concept where every single individual fights only for himself, his own benefit and backstabs everyone at every opportunity. Just like the idea of the Drow from Faerun, such a society would just collaps in no time, and it would have no strength to fight against ANY halfway organized system.
The only glue such a society has, is fear. And while fear sure is a good motivator in short terms, it only works while you literally hold the gun towards that person. The moment you turn away, he stabs you. And that isn't strength, that is merely anarchy. And it goes against everything we know about how humans function. Besides the natural "will to power" humans are also herd animals. Humans never are able so much to do alone as they wish, being alone makes every human being insecure and uncomfortable. All desire a herd to which they want to belong, some stable anker of a peer-group, and no greed or evil can break that fundamental desire. So aside from the fact that such a Sith society would just fall apart and be victim of any organized society, it goes against a fundamental desire, the peer-group belonging. People need faith in others and trust in a "greater good" as much as air to breath; they literally can not function without. All sociological analysis agrees on that.
And there WOULD be a more plausible way to design a Sith empire, and our own history shows that: The Nazi's Third Reich. They were undoubtly very evil, but they did not practice backstabbing, no they had groups they targetted as evil, and used this target to glue the followers together. They created on the contraty very strong feelings of sticking together, of feeling united for a "greater good" (or greater evil rather, but from the inside it was seen as good). That is how I can see evil plausible. Peer pressure to cooperate, to leave individual desires (and with it individual reason) outside by fabricating the idea of a greater cause and also fabricating an enemy. The entire system of propaganda to unite people and strengthening their resolve. Such a society is, as proven, much stronger economically and in war, because their doubts are eliminated, their individual thinking is eliminated, all things which slow down a democratic society, where all things are always questioned and debated, and different interest groups all pull in different directions. The evil of such a Nazi soiecty is, that the individuality is eliminated and all are streamlined. That makes their strength and their evil. And that is an evil I find plausible, because it can "work". It is based on human nature, the true evil potential of humans. But this Sith idea of constant backstabbing or everyone fighting against everyone just would never work in any way, and just sounds like a very childish idea of evil. Like a 6 year old would imagine evil maybe.
So, even if I as roleplayer try to play out something within me that is "bad", the idea of live in a society of constant backstabbing just sounds absurd to me. Thats not evil, thats lunatic.
I would say the Sith creed is embraced by many powerful people today and in the past. They aren't dumb or short-sighted. They have goals and ambitions where most people only have wishes and desires. If you see them that way it's the fault of writer's or your own perception.
As far as betrayal. They betray and deceive the masses of humanity more than each other. That's not to say that they don't betray each other but for the most part they go for easier prey. If country collapses it doesn't matter. They have the money and influence to move elsewhere or wait till the country is rebuilt.
They use fear to motivate the masses to give their consent. A good example is the bailouts happening worldwide. People have been convinced to give up their money and financial sovereignty to avoid financial armageddon. It only has to work short term. Long enough to pass key legislation and to loot public coffers. Then things return to normal for awhile and the cycle is repeated.
This has been refered to as the Hegelian Dialectic or Problem, Reaction, Solution. Basically the elite create a problem, watch the general populace for a reaction and then provide a solution. The sheperds slowly guiding the sheep in the direction they choose. While constant fear might be too stressful for a society, well timed periodic fear is great for motivating people to do what you want.
Look at it this way. They see the majority as less than human or below them. No matter what they do to these people, it doesn't matter because they are animals in their eyes. When they betray each other it is more for personal advancement or to one up each other. Rarely would they take it too the level of destroying one and other. Though this does happen.
The backstabbing written about in your cliche action novel/movie is to give the happy ending. The only way for the lone hero to defeat them is for them to defeat each other through infighting. Makes for a lovely hollywood ending but totally unreleastic. Obviously if it was non-fiction the hero would be promptly executed and the Sith would return to scheming their next plot.
Ok, makes sense. Still, I think playing such a steretypical "Dr Evil" sort of evil sucks. I can imagine to play some "less evil" evil, if that makes any sense. Something like, grab all the power for your faction or what, not this psycho-nut evil. That somehow not cool.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
@popinjay
The first movies followed a much simpler storyline that had elements at the background such as the darkside etc. In the very first movie the sith were barely mentioned at all, and DarthVader was more just an evil villian who had once been a jedi. Never was it implied that the sith was some kind of cult or movement at all. As i recall correctly it was also not mentioned that the emperor had anything to do with the force.This was all fine, as the story at the forground was interesting enough.
But i think the later 3 movies were simply poorly written. First of all the whole purpose of those movies is very unclear when you look at the result. Very little was actually explained and the depth of the characters was minimal at best. Especially ep1 had very, very little impact on the overall storyline. Basicly all the crucial stuff from ep1 could be put in a few short dialogue scenes within ep2. imho the result of the poor writing is the that the sith are poorly explained and therefore not understood by people who are not interested in the extended universe. I could spend pages on this, but I rather refer to the redlettermedia reviews, especially the one on ep3. Many starwars fans simply bash these reviews without even watching them, or pick on the first one because it is the most easy to pick on. Imho the review on ep3 explains very clearly what went wrong with the prequels and by that also draws the light in which one should understand the other reviews on ep1 and 2. its a very technical perspective on filmmaking, but notheless very interesting.
this is not to bash starwars fans or anything, but check the review on ep3:
http://www.redlettermedia.com
Wanna know why sith are evil reade the expanded universe. The sith believe in following emotion yes. The problem is they to often let those emotions rule them.
Sith philosophy doesnt sound all bad till u get into the fact that if u arent human u arent worth having equal rights. All species other then humans to them are only good as slaves. thats evil.
They dont just want to follow there emotions or the other tenants of the sith. They want to rule the universe much like hitler and napolean. They want to form empires where the population is forced to live in fear of them every day fo there lives.
Sith not only kill for no reason other then they feel like it they also kill for power. Im sorry but how any can think the sith as a whole arent evil or cant be written as evil is beyond me.
While im not a writer and have issues sometimes getting my thoughts on paper or expalining them well the truth is the sith are evil in every sense of the word.
They kill for pleasure. The fact they kill at will, The sith are serial killers people. They are despots and rule in the vein of some of the worst leaders in human history from staling, to hitler , to napolean bonaparte.
They are as bad as any of these rulers only they have special abilities that make them more powerful then most nomal humans in the star wars universe.
Yet disallowing or even comdemning emotions is good? THat is what the jed do they supress their emotions to become purely logical being that find emotion to be a weakness largely. Actually sith do not as a whole kill without reason yet some within the sith group do kill without reason or for power. The idea of gaining power can be also to ensure that others do not use their power for fear of you using your own, or the m.a.d. idea that if you fire a nuke i will and we all die. Killing and defeating an enemy is not evil or good it is an act that can be either based on who you ask. THe part on equal right is in that a group where power is paramount you would need to gain the rights others possess, since they are not innate mostly since those above you earned those rights as such you should as well.
OP, I agree with you that the betrayal concept breaks verisimilitude, but it's fiction. I really think that if you got into the nuts and bolts of why Sith actually works, it comes down to the Dark Side of the Force holding everything together behind the scenes. It's the only way it makes sense, IMO.
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I would hope that it is difficult for a game to show the true sociopathic nature,for a person to be truely evil, without any morals, conscience or compassion. In the end it is the player that would make the character so evil. If the player has this nature, then I hope it is only in game and not in society. As for me, I will try a Sith after time, but I don't think I will play it so well. Thank goodness for that
No the jedi way prior to luke skywalker was very flawed. No attachment, no marriage , no families because they thought they made jedi more adept at falling prey to the dark side were all bad ideals.
Im nto saying jedi are better then sith in all regards. Im saying that sith lords for the most part are sociopaths who live for power and to subjegate others.
Both of these ideals are wrong. The sith are selfish and serial killers on the most basic level and jedi are so into not feeling they forget what it means to be human or alein or to even love.
No i perfer skywalkers jedi where they can marry ahve kids and families to the jedi prior to skywalker. That said the way the sith go about bringing there ideals of passion and emotion to the universe is just the wrong way to do it. instead of showing that love and the good emotions can make people better human beings or whatever species u are they show all the bad about emotions.
They give in to there anger and in doing so hurt maim and kill for no reason whatsoever. The jedi under luke use love to stay away from the dark side. There families make them less likely to fall. Sure jacen was the exception when he fell due to a vision he had of his daughter.
That said both the jedi and sith have huge problems in there ideaology. Mainly the sith err in how they go about things with kiling maiming subjegating and such all of which are pure evil and the jedi forget that love is the one emotion that can make people reach heights they would never achieve without it.
The Sith suffer from mans most dominant emotion...."GREED". The story behind the Sith ideology is that if we let our emotion dictate our logic them we become Sith...G-Lucus wrote Star Wars based off the Nazi ideology and mans ever quest for personal power.
We as humans are not that far off from the Sith as most humans let there emotions control there logic, to become a Jedi or G-Lucus's version is to let ones self control there emotions with logic or a balance in between, never letting one or the other become the dominant side.
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely, that saying holds true for both Jedi and Sith, balance is the Universal key as all things in the Univerise seek balance.
One has to wonder lol, are people really supressing there true emotion due to fear of the consequences?
I will also try Sith, but in the end I know I can't for the life of me find true enjoyment in acts of uncontrolled emotion..or (evil), to me I feel that people who act out sociopathic behavior in any roleplaying setting needs to get there heads checked..we might have some sleeper agents and they might not even know it.
It's not to show "how evil you are" it's to demonstrate the new master won't be handicapping himself by giving you the other guy's job. As for an example of this in society, look to organized crime. They're real, they engage in real criminal activity, they're successful, and the primary method of promotion is to "create an opening." You're focus is too narrow, and you're only looking at this from one angle.
I would say the Sith creed is embraced by many powerful people today and in the past. They aren't dumb or short-sighted. They have goals and ambitions where most people only have wishes and desires. If you see them that way it's the fault of writer's or your own perception.
As far as betrayal. They betray and deceive the masses of humanity more than each other. That's not to say that they don't betray each other but for the most part they go for easier prey. If country collapses it doesn't matter. They have the money and influence to move elsewhere or wait till the country is rebuilt.
They use fear to motivate the masses to give their consent. A good example is the bailouts happening worldwide. People have been convinced to give up their money and financial sovereignty to avoid financial armageddon. It only has to work short term. Long enough to pass key legislation and to loot public coffers. Then things return to normal for awhile and the cycle is repeated.
This has been refered to as the Hegelian Dialectic or Problem, Reaction, Solution. Basically the elite create a problem, watch the general populace for a reaction and then provide a solution. The sheperds slowly guiding the sheep in the direction they choose. While constant fear might be too stressful for a society, well timed periodic fear is great for motivating people to do what you want.
Look at it this way. They see the majority as less than human or below them. No matter what they do to these people, it doesn't matter because they are animals in their eyes. When they betray each other it is more for personal advancement or to one up each other. Rarely would they take it too the level of destroying one and other. Though this does happen.
The backstabbing written about in your cliche action novel/movie is to give the happy ending. The only way for the lone hero to defeat them is for them to defeat each other through infighting. Makes for a lovely hollywood ending but totally unreleastic. Obviously if it was non-fiction the hero would be promptly executed and the Sith would return to scheming their next plot.
Actually that's what life in general is when you look across the full spectrum of it, which is not "evil".
As for what is "evil", that really is only a moral construct used to make people conform within a social group.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Ok, makes sense. Still, I think playing such a steretypical "Dr Evil" sort of evil sucks. I can imagine to play some "less evil" evil, if that makes any sense. Something like, grab all the power for your faction or what, not this psycho-nut evil. That somehow not cool.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert