Does that make a drop of one and half million in six months ? . I suppose it could be argued its just the lull between one expansion and the next as a defence for these losses but quite frankly I think its a lot more than that . I don't think its that I think Blizzard have made some fundamental mistakes and this rot is going to be hard to reverse .
Mists of Pandoria sounds pretty underwealming . The fanboys are doing their utmost to defend it and talk it up but you can pretty much tell they are fighting a losing battle . Its very hard to see Blizzards logic behind this expansion other than trying to appeal to the Asian market .
On top of that Star Wars the Old Republic is breaking records for pre-orders . If it does deliver ( and it seems it just might ) then Blizzard will have a juggernaut of a game in direct competition with it and of course you have to take in consideration the other mmos to be released next year a lot of which sound like they have potential .
Its very hard to see World of Warcraft increasing thier subscriber base again so most the most probable course is down would spiral .
Good. This is what happens when you start tossing in MicroTransactions on top of a monthly fee. The nickel & diming is bs.
But don't worry, bros! the Panda will win back those customers!
lolwut? You act like the WoW cash shop is P2W. It's strictly for mounts, pets, and some game services that aren't otherwise offered. I'd be surprised if even one WoW player actually left the game due to having microtransactions, unless they've added some stuff the to cash shop I'm not aware of in the last 8 months since I've played.
Common sense. Its not like they just introduced the micro transactions. Its been well over a year since the sparkle pony and over 6 years since the MT gambling that is the WoW TCG (which is even more ridiculous than the MTs...at least you were gauranteed your stuff with the MTs)
But with the current amount of active subscriptions worldwide being somewhere in the field of 8,000,000, who knows when the decline actually started. From my calculations, if WoW was at 12 million then its lots 33% so far since that peak. I'm sure there is at least 1% of those who left due to the MT. And just because they instituted the TCG 6 years ago doesnt mean people had to leave when it came out. But over time Blizz has been progressivly adding more MT to the game. So we had TCG, then we had the minipets in the store, then we had the $25 mount, then we got another mount and more pets, and now we have a pet that you trade for in game money. It all mounts up, and I'm sure people left at each itteration because it was too much for them.
Originally posted by Biggus99
Originally posted by precious328
Good. This is what happens when you start tossing in MicroTransactions on top of a monthly fee. The nickel & diming is bs.
But don't worry, bros! the Panda will win back those customers!
lolwut? You act like the WoW cash shop is P2W. It's strictly for mounts, pets, and some game services that arent' otherwise offered. I'd be surprised if even one WoW player actually left the game due to having microtransactions.
Part of the reason I left (and I played since Vanilla) is from the MT. I got tired of the obvious greed. $25 for a mount? You've got to be kidding me. And now that they have that stupid pet that you can trade in the auction house I know I'll never go back. And If its affected me, I'm sure there are others.
When Blizzard announced the "Buy 1 year of WoW for free D3" -offer they accepted that WoW is on a decline and is never coming back. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how long WoW struggles.
My guess is that SWToR + GW2 will bring WoW on it's knees with a slight "comeback" peak when pandamania is released. That said even titles such as The Secret World will be more interesting than WoW in year 2012.
When I left WoW, I had a variety of reasons that all added up to "time to move on", for me.
I find it extremely unlikely that one issue (RMT, really?) is "the cause". Even during the NGE and SoA (frequently considered disasters that "kllled" their respective games), the people leaving the game were not all doing so for one single cause.
Beware of slippery slopes and simple answers to complex questions.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WoW doesnt care about the old school players. They sucked the money they needed out of you and are more than ready for you to move on! The constant flow of new players who need to spend a year subbed in order to get to where your at now is what they want. Most the high lvl players will sit in town and bullsh!t about some pretty stupid stuff nowadays anyway. WoW is not "Second Life". [Mod Edit]
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
When I left WoW, I had a variety of reasons that all added up to "time to move on", for me.
I find it extremely unlikely that one issue (RMT, really?) is "the cause". Even during the NGE and SoA (frequently considered disasters that "kllled" their respective games), the people leaving the game were not all doing so for one single cause.
Beware of slippery slopes and simple answers to complex questions.
While I understand that the guy that you initially quoted said it was the cause, I never did. I said specifically that it was a small %. (I said no less than 1%).
I am one of the millions who quit when Cataclysm came out. I thought the expansion was horrible for many reasons but the main reasons are:
1. Total revamp and gutting of the Beta Proposed Path of the Ancients Alternate Advancement system. Turned PotA into a shitty overhaul of the glyph system.
2. Rehashing old content. This is not bad in and of itself, untill you realize they made an expansion about it, The cataclysm effects on the old world could of easily be contained in a monthly (or in WoW's case, bi-annual) content update.
3. The 180 degree turn on entry level content. It was almost impossible to finish dungeons in Cata because WotLK tuned instances and raids to be easier. I loved the easy heroics in WotLK.
4. The new profession sucked ass.
5. No new areas to explore like in BC or LK, instead we explored crap we already knew was there. Huge difference in exploring places like howling fjord compared to cata zones.
6. Gear grind vs character grind. id take character grind any day.
7. going from epic gear to blues. This would of been fine but the stigma of having good gear one week and 5 levels later you'e doing heroics and farming valor for blue gear was stupid.
8. Not learning from Wintergrasp and making Tol Borad even worse. When will Blizzard realize they need a 24 hr permanent PvP zone?
9. No new classes, IMO should release new heroic class every expansion.
10. Level cap increased by 5. WTF?
11. Guild Advancement was a joke compared to what was originally proposed.
12. and my #1 worst reason is gutting of the talent trees. Mark my words the MoP talent system 2.0 will be a dismal failure. You cant take away character customization and options from players and not expect repercussions.
DK's and WotLK didnt ruin WoW, nor did Arena. What ruined WoW is the constant nerfs and buffs of classes due to over inflation of equipment. Its crazy to see Blizard release a new raid and the gear overshadows anything else by at least 25%, then the following patch a class gets a 20% nerf. WHY THE HELL DO THEY NOT JUST ADJUST LOOT UPWARDS BY 5% AND LEAVE THE CLASSES ALONE. Who freaking cares that my DK did 10% more AOE dmg then anyone else. Its only gamebreaking to the asshats who min/max.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
WoW is currently not on the leading edge, or adding additional polish like they use to. Lineage 2 heading to F2P, GW2, SW:KotOR,etc.
Throw in a lukewarm response to the expansion and it seems WoW must make two choices:
1. Stay the course
2. Do something different
My instincts tell me if they suffer another quarter of losses I suspect the will do something drastic. Remember, the Mists of Pandaria expansion is not even in open beta as of right now. The next patch may release soon in the next few weeks, but I do not think it will entice the average players to return.
Part of the reason I left (and I played since Vanilla) is from the MT. I got tired of the obvious greed. $25 for a mount? You've got to be kidding me. And now that they have that stupid pet that you can trade in the auction house I know I'll never go back. And If its affected me, I'm sure there are others.
Are you playing any MMORPGs right now? If so, which one?
I think this due to the mmorpg market being saturated now and games are only trading subs instead of attracting new players fresh to the genre.
If you take a look at the sub-estimations at mmodata.org you see a trend that, cumulatively, the total of all MMO-players does not rise since Q2/2009-2011.
I think we can safely assume, bare the release of a total game-changer IP that will bring in even more fresh players/subs, that the MMORPG market is now at its peak and saturated from a sales perspective. MMOs starting to loose players will now start to become a normal trend not really related to the quality of the game.
In the future devs and pubs will need to fight harder to retain their subs, its just how the market now works.
I tend to agree but three companies that could draw significant new players into the market are Bioware, Bethesda, and Rockstar.
My feeling is Bioware is making a lot of RPG fans who don't like MMO's consider playing one which very well could cause a decent bump in total industry subs.
I quit about half way thru Burning Crusade leveling because of the grind in questing...kill 30 vultures and all that.
I came back at Wrath of the Lich King's launch and have to say....I played WoW 4-5 nights a week during this time.
I leveled to 85 in Cataclysm...ran 1 regular instance and have not played WoW since.
Agreed that Wrath had some issues, but it was one of the Best MMO expansions I can think of...maybe only beaten by Shrouded Isles in DAOC.
I agree with you. I had almost the same exact pattern. I acutally quit not long after BC came out, got a few characters to 70, that was it. Came back towards the tail end, Hyjal/Sunwell era, and started raiding again. I was fortunate enough to get into Wrath closed beta very early on, and however minute, I played a small role in developing the DK class. Once Wrath hit, I played the hell out of it. I raided too many nights a week until Argent Champions came out, got bored and quit. I then bought Cata in December of last year, got one character to 85, ran one instance (don't even remember which one). Saw the amount of reputation I needed to grind to catch up to my raider friends, then that was it. Never logged back in, and probably never will.
There were quite a few things I didn't like about Cata. The phasing, the fact I completed 80-85 in three days, the same sinking feeling I got when I realized how many damn instances I needed to run....pretty much everything. The quests were somewhat fun, but playing on a PvP server not once did anyone even mess with me, mainly due to phasing. Eh whatever, I played the game for many years, definitely got my money out of it. I can safely say though I will not be buying anymore WoW expansions.
I am surprised Blizzard has not sacked Greg Street and Tom Chilton yet.
Pretty much I wont comment on the numbers anymore cause the writting was on the wall since those two took over. From all expansions still BC has been so much superior to everything coming after it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Are you playing any MMORPGs right now? If so, which one?
I'm not playing any very seriously right now. The only P2P mmo that I have a "sub" to is Warhammer, and thats because I was able to buy the box for 5 bucks off of amazon. Got to level 20 and got bored. Other than that none really.
Why do you ask? If your going to point out that the MMO I'm currently playing also shows signs of greed, then dont bother. I know warhammer is greedy by doing those stupid entitlements, and I wont buy them. I dont see the point of buying an entitlement for a minipet or a mount when I can just use a real mount in RvR at level 12.
WoW has become a WoW clone, and not a very good one, frankly.
The expansions are soulless and joyless with more cut-copy-and-paste than anything fun and innovative.
Clearly the Blizzard A and B teams are no longer on WoW, leaving a clueless group lead by every-time-I-post-people-quit Greg Street.
I loved WoW and will be saddened to leave, but also strangely satisfied to let my wallet tell Blizzard, "Stupid f'ing pandas"
I was thinking the same tthing.. I should be obvious has moved some of there telents over to other stuff.
Personally I would love for them to move away from the ''Holy Trinity system'' of needing a Tank, DPS and healer, but we all known its too late in the games life for that to happen. That systems hampers a game over its life cycle, I can see TOR going down the same route, after the hype has faded and person leave, then we'll start having trouble LFG's etc..
This coming xpac just seems to be a filler to quell the losing subs number for awhile, after all there is no hype MMO releasing next year, except for GW 2 and somewhat Tera..
But heck, 6+ year atop of the subs list is no small feat for any company.. They must have done something right and other can learn from that. And i expect them to stay atop of the subs list for maybe another 1-2 years...
No matter what happens and how many years pass.. The asian community will keep this game alive and well.. For many many years to come.. The rest of the world will be in virtual reality machines and WoW will still be the most popular game in Asia..
But I think this decrease is due to a great slate of releases this year and a few left to come.. By the end of 2011 I am sure the gaming industry will be bolstered and will surpass porn as the number one money making media industry..
Enter Titan, where they've already sent most of their A-list talent. Certainly, they will continue to make expansions and content for WoW for a long time to come, but it's likely that the real push and real innovation will come with the new game.
Yeah, and the mystery of Titan is killing us! What is it, Blizz? Give us some tidbits, please!!
No matter what happens and how many years pass.. The asian community will keep this game alive and well.. For many many years to come.. The rest of the world will be in virtual reality machines and WoW will still be the most popular game in Asia..
But I think this decrease is due to a great slate of releases this year and a few left to come.. By the end of 2011 I am sure the gaming industry will be bolstered and will surpass porn as the number one money making media industry..
You do understand that the majority of their losses are from asia right?
Could that be because they just managed to release WotLK there? I understand there was a big issue with it, but I have not heard anything about thier losses being primarily from Asia.
Did Blizz state once that level cap of 100 would be as far as they would take the game? Or was it just a comment made by someone? What im thinking is, if its true, MOP will take players to 90 and then perhaps a full ten levels for the last xpac. As for them losing 800 K subs I would ask, where did the players go? Ive given about all the recent AAA titles a try and have yet to find one that can keep me from going back to WOW. Granted the friends made over the years play into this but in reality, IMO, there isnt a better game to play.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Comments
I'm really not at all suprised .
Does that make a drop of one and half million in six months ? . I suppose it could be argued its just the lull between one expansion and the next as a defence for these losses but quite frankly I think its a lot more than that . I don't think its that I think Blizzard have made some fundamental mistakes and this rot is going to be hard to reverse .
Mists of Pandoria sounds pretty underwealming . The fanboys are doing their utmost to defend it and talk it up but you can pretty much tell they are fighting a losing battle . Its very hard to see Blizzards logic behind this expansion other than trying to appeal to the Asian market .
On top of that Star Wars the Old Republic is breaking records for pre-orders . If it does deliver ( and it seems it just might ) then Blizzard will have a juggernaut of a game in direct competition with it and of course you have to take in consideration the other mmos to be released next year a lot of which sound like they have potential .
Its very hard to see World of Warcraft increasing thier subscriber base again so most the most probable course is down would spiral .
lolwut? You act like the WoW cash shop is P2W. It's strictly for mounts, pets, and some game services that aren't otherwise offered. I'd be surprised if even one WoW player actually left the game due to having microtransactions, unless they've added some stuff the to cash shop I'm not aware of in the last 8 months since I've played.
When Blizzard announced the "Buy 1 year of WoW for free D3" -offer they accepted that WoW is on a decline and is never coming back. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how long WoW struggles.
My guess is that SWToR + GW2 will bring WoW on it's knees with a slight "comeback" peak when pandamania is released. That said even titles such as The Secret World will be more interesting than WoW in year 2012.
When I left WoW, I had a variety of reasons that all added up to "time to move on", for me.
I find it extremely unlikely that one issue (RMT, really?) is "the cause". Even during the NGE and SoA (frequently considered disasters that "kllled" their respective games), the people leaving the game were not all doing so for one single cause.
Beware of slippery slopes and simple answers to complex questions.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WoW doesnt care about the old school players. They sucked the money they needed out of you and are more than ready for you to move on! The constant flow of new players who need to spend a year subbed in order to get to where your at now is what they want. Most the high lvl players will sit in town and bullsh!t about some pretty stupid stuff nowadays anyway. WoW is not "Second Life". [Mod Edit]
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
While I understand that the guy that you initially quoted said it was the cause, I never did. I said specifically that it was a small %. (I said no less than 1%).
I am one of the millions who quit when Cataclysm came out. I thought the expansion was horrible for many reasons but the main reasons are:
1. Total revamp and gutting of the Beta Proposed Path of the Ancients Alternate Advancement system. Turned PotA into a shitty overhaul of the glyph system.
2. Rehashing old content. This is not bad in and of itself, untill you realize they made an expansion about it, The cataclysm effects on the old world could of easily be contained in a monthly (or in WoW's case, bi-annual) content update.
3. The 180 degree turn on entry level content. It was almost impossible to finish dungeons in Cata because WotLK tuned instances and raids to be easier. I loved the easy heroics in WotLK.
4. The new profession sucked ass.
5. No new areas to explore like in BC or LK, instead we explored crap we already knew was there. Huge difference in exploring places like howling fjord compared to cata zones.
6. Gear grind vs character grind. id take character grind any day.
7. going from epic gear to blues. This would of been fine but the stigma of having good gear one week and 5 levels later you'e doing heroics and farming valor for blue gear was stupid.
8. Not learning from Wintergrasp and making Tol Borad even worse. When will Blizzard realize they need a 24 hr permanent PvP zone?
9. No new classes, IMO should release new heroic class every expansion.
10. Level cap increased by 5. WTF?
11. Guild Advancement was a joke compared to what was originally proposed.
12. and my #1 worst reason is gutting of the talent trees. Mark my words the MoP talent system 2.0 will be a dismal failure. You cant take away character customization and options from players and not expect repercussions.
DK's and WotLK didnt ruin WoW, nor did Arena. What ruined WoW is the constant nerfs and buffs of classes due to over inflation of equipment. Its crazy to see Blizard release a new raid and the gear overshadows anything else by at least 25%, then the following patch a class gets a 20% nerf. WHY THE HELL DO THEY NOT JUST ADJUST LOOT UPWARDS BY 5% AND LEAVE THE CLASSES ALONE. Who freaking cares that my DK did 10% more AOE dmg then anyone else. Its only gamebreaking to the asshats who min/max.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
WoW is currently not on the leading edge, or adding additional polish like they use to. Lineage 2 heading to F2P, GW2, SW:KotOR,etc.
Throw in a lukewarm response to the expansion and it seems WoW must make two choices:
1. Stay the course
2. Do something different
My instincts tell me if they suffer another quarter of losses I suspect the will do something drastic. Remember, the Mists of Pandaria expansion is not even in open beta as of right now. The next patch may release soon in the next few weeks, but I do not think it will entice the average players to return.
Are you playing any MMORPGs right now? If so, which one?
I tend to agree but three companies that could draw significant new players into the market are Bioware, Bethesda, and Rockstar.
My feeling is Bioware is making a lot of RPG fans who don't like MMO's consider playing one which very well could cause a decent bump in total industry subs.
I agree with you. I had almost the same exact pattern. I acutally quit not long after BC came out, got a few characters to 70, that was it. Came back towards the tail end, Hyjal/Sunwell era, and started raiding again. I was fortunate enough to get into Wrath closed beta very early on, and however minute, I played a small role in developing the DK class. Once Wrath hit, I played the hell out of it. I raided too many nights a week until Argent Champions came out, got bored and quit. I then bought Cata in December of last year, got one character to 85, ran one instance (don't even remember which one). Saw the amount of reputation I needed to grind to catch up to my raider friends, then that was it. Never logged back in, and probably never will.
There were quite a few things I didn't like about Cata. The phasing, the fact I completed 80-85 in three days, the same sinking feeling I got when I realized how many damn instances I needed to run....pretty much everything. The quests were somewhat fun, but playing on a PvP server not once did anyone even mess with me, mainly due to phasing. Eh whatever, I played the game for many years, definitely got my money out of it. I can safely say though I will not be buying anymore WoW expansions.
9 million pre-orders for mw3, why? it's the same bloody game every year.
I am surprised Blizzard has not sacked Greg Street and Tom Chilton yet.
Pretty much I wont comment on the numbers anymore cause the writting was on the wall since those two took over. From all expansions still BC has been so much superior to everything coming after it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Greg Street in particular has committed one PR blunder after another.
I'm not playing any very seriously right now. The only P2P mmo that I have a "sub" to is Warhammer, and thats because I was able to buy the box for 5 bucks off of amazon. Got to level 20 and got bored. Other than that none really.
Why do you ask? If your going to point out that the MMO I'm currently playing also shows signs of greed, then dont bother. I know warhammer is greedy by doing those stupid entitlements, and I wont buy them. I dont see the point of buying an entitlement for a minipet or a mount when I can just use a real mount in RvR at level 12.
The expansions are soulless and joyless with more cut-copy-and-paste than anything fun and innovative.
Clearly the Blizzard A and B teams are no longer on WoW, leaving a clueless group lead by every-time-I-post-people-quit Greg Street.
I loved WoW and will be saddened to leave, but also strangely satisfied to let my wallet tell Blizzard, "Stupid f'ing pandas"
I was thinking the same tthing.. I should be obvious has moved some of there telents over to other stuff.
Personally I would love for them to move away from the ''Holy Trinity system'' of needing a Tank, DPS and healer, but we all known its too late in the games life for that to happen. That systems hampers a game over its life cycle, I can see TOR going down the same route, after the hype has faded and person leave, then we'll start having trouble LFG's etc..
This coming xpac just seems to be a filler to quell the losing subs number for awhile, after all there is no hype MMO releasing next year, except for GW 2 and somewhat Tera..
But heck, 6+ year atop of the subs list is no small feat for any company.. They must have done something right and other can learn from that. And i expect them to stay atop of the subs list for maybe another 1-2 years...
No matter what happens and how many years pass.. The asian community will keep this game alive and well.. For many many years to come.. The rest of the world will be in virtual reality machines and WoW will still be the most popular game in Asia..
But I think this decrease is due to a great slate of releases this year and a few left to come.. By the end of 2011 I am sure the gaming industry will be bolstered and will surpass porn as the number one money making media industry..
I left WoW because it was no longer fun.
TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!
Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!
Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!
Yeah, and the mystery of Titan is killing us! What is it, Blizz? Give us some tidbits, please!!
Could that be because they just managed to release WotLK there? I understand there was a big issue with it, but I have not heard anything about thier losses being primarily from Asia.
WoW getting a bit rough around the edges eh?
GOOD.
The day that I can play a differant game and the chat is not alive with "This sucks cause WoW this and WoW has it like that" will be a welcome day.
I cannot wait.
On topic: You could say that WoW suffers from really only one thing.
Greg aka "Scrub" Street.
Did Blizz state once that level cap of 100 would be as far as they would take the game? Or was it just a comment made by someone? What im thinking is, if its true, MOP will take players to 90 and then perhaps a full ten levels for the last xpac. As for them losing 800 K subs I would ask, where did the players go? Ive given about all the recent AAA titles a try and have yet to find one that can keep me from going back to WOW. Granted the friends made over the years play into this but in reality, IMO, there isnt a better game to play.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.