This vote is slightly one sided... your asking players to choose whether to pretty much blame the company or themselves. Who do you think they will choose? Companies make MMOs (or anything in that matter) based on what people want... and they seem to think people want alone time. So, that is what they will give them. So it is first the people's, then to make $ the companies make the games based off of this, so then it is their fualt. So evenly, I say. Now, to who started it, I'd like you to turn your attention to the very people who are posting on this. Including me. Of course.
This vote is slightly one sided... your asking players to choose whether to pretty much blame the company or themselves. Who do you think they will choose? Companies make MMOs (or anything in that matter) based on what people want... and they seem to think people want alone time. So, that is what they will give them. So it is first the people's, then to make $ the companies make the games based off of this, so then it is their fualt. So evenly, I say. Now, to who started it, I'd like you to turn your attention to the very people who are posting on this. Including me. Of course.
Jiggly, OUT!
Hmm I don't think it's so simple as "the developers just gave us what we asked for" as you seem to imply and many others have stated outright.
I basically see the "de-socialization" of MMORPGs as a side effect of certain developers' well intentioned attempts to fix a real problem.
You see, when EQ was king, everybody socialized and grouped all the time. But it had a lot of problems that people often complained about. First, there was nothing to do but kill monsters pretty much and a lot of folks wanted "less of a grind." Second, most classes basically HAD to be in a group to level, and sometimes getting in a group took forever. And third, there were certain monster "camps" that were superior to others and these were always occupied by players. Sometimes you would have to wait in line to get a chance at the camp you were after.
So when Blizzard created WoW, I think they did so with all these problems in mind and tried to think of a good solution to them. Their main solution to the majority of these problems was the quest-node leveling system. With this system, you were always on the move and it reduced the feeling of a grind, there was essentially no more camping, and almost all quests were soloable so no more waiting for groups.
TBH, I loved this system when I first played it. It felt like a breath of fresh air after the "camp leveling" system of EQ.
But as time went on, a side effect of the system became apparent. You didn't need the other players anymore. Moreover, you didn't even care about their existence most of the time. The game essentially turned into a single player game that just happened to exist in a shared world.
And now I think we've come to another crossroads in the genre. Folks are getting fed up with the quest-node system and the WoW model in general. They want something fresh, and a lot of developers seem to have picked up on that. In fact, we've got three major MMORPGs in development right now (Archeage, GW2, and TSW) that are trying to break the mold.
My hope is that one of them becomes the new "king" and ushers in a more social generation of MMORPGs.
So when Blizzard created WoW, I think they did so with all these problems in mind and tried to think of a good solution to them. Their main solution to the majority of these problems was the quest-node leveling system. With this system, you were always on the move and it reduced the feeling of a grind, there was essentially no more camping, and almost all quests were soloable so no more waiting for groups.
TBH, I loved this system when I first played it. It felt like a breath of fresh air after the "camp leveling" system of EQ.
But as time went on, a side effect of the system became apparent. You didn't need the other players anymore.
It wasn't just Blizzard. The entire industry seemed to focus on soloability for a period of at least five years, in part (I'm sure) because at the time--just after EQ's message board lashbacks over "forced grouping"--one of the most common player requests was for a better solo game.
Was a very noticeable trend in all of the games opening between '02 and '04, that the devs were consciously concentrating on the solo side of the game, and nearly all of them marketing-hyped it as a feature.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This vote is slightly one sided... your asking players to choose whether to pretty much blame the company or themselves. Who do you think they will choose? Companies make MMOs (or anything in that matter) based on what people want... and they seem to think people want alone time. So, that is what they will give them. So it is first the people's, then to make $ the companies make the games based off of this, so then it is their fualt. So evenly, I say. Now, to who started it, I'd like you to turn your attention to the very people who are posting on this. Including me. Of course.
Jiggly, OUT!
Hmm I don't think it's so simple as "the developers just gave us what we asked for" as you seem to imply and many others have stated outright.
I basically see the "de-socialization" of MMORPGs as a side effect of certain developers' well intentioned attempts to fix a real problem.
You see, when EQ was king, everybody socialized and grouped all the time. But it had a lot of problems that people often complained about. First, there was nothing to do but kill monsters pretty much and a lot of folks wanted "less of a grind." Second, most classes basically HAD to be in a group to level, and sometimes getting in a group took forever. And third, there were certain monster "camps" that were superior to others and these were always occupied by players. Sometimes you would have to wait in line to get a chance at the camp you were after.
So when Blizzard created WoW, I think they did so with all these problems in mind and tried to think of a good solution to them. Their main solution to the majority of these problems was the quest-node leveling system. With this system, you were always on the move and it reduced the feeling of a grind, there was essentially no more camping, and almost all quests were soloable so no more waiting for groups.
TBH, I loved this system when I first played it. It felt like a breath of fresh air after the "camp leveling" system of EQ.
But as time went on, a side effect of the system became apparent. You didn't need the other players anymore. Moreover, you didn't even care about their existence most of the time. The game essentially turned into a single player game that just happened to exist in a shared world.
And now I think we've come to another crossroads in the genre. Folks are getting fed up with the quest-node system and the WoW model in general. They want something fresh, and a lot of developers seem to have picked up on that. In fact, we've got three major MMORPGs in development right now (Archeage, GW2, and TSW) that are trying to break the mold.
My hope is that one of them becomes the new "king" and ushers in a more social generation of MMORPGs.
I agree, with you, but the future is much different from the past. I believe that yes there will be many changes soon, companies are noticing (and have for a while) the growth in the want to make a mmo a... mmo. Look at Guild Wars 2, it seems to be making headway. I would continue, but I have business to attend. But again, future and past are different, and I was answering for the past.
This vote is slightly one sided... your asking players to choose whether to pretty much blame the company or themselves. Who do you think they will choose? Companies make MMOs (or anything in that matter) based on what people want... and they seem to think people want alone time. So, that is what they will give them. So it is first the people's, then to make $ the companies make the games based off of this, so then it is their fualt. So evenly, I say. Now, to who started it, I'd like you to turn your attention to the very people who are posting on this. Including me. Of course.
Jiggly, OUT!
Hmm I don't think it's so simple as "the developers just gave us what we asked for" as you seem to imply and many others have stated outright.
I basically see the "de-socialization" of MMORPGs as a side effect of certain developers' well intentioned attempts to fix a real problem.
You see, when EQ was king, everybody socialized and grouped all the time. But it had a lot of problems that people often complained about. First, there was nothing to do but kill monsters pretty much and a lot of folks wanted "less of a grind." Second, most classes basically HAD to be in a group to level, and sometimes getting in a group took forever. And third, there were certain monster "camps" that were superior to others and these were always occupied by players. Sometimes you would have to wait in line to get a chance at the camp you were after.
So when Blizzard created WoW, I think they did so with all these problems in mind and tried to think of a good solution to them. Their main solution to the majority of these problems was the quest-node leveling system. With this system, you were always on the move and it reduced the feeling of a grind, there was essentially no more camping, and almost all quests were soloable so no more waiting for groups.
TBH, I loved this system when I first played it. It felt like a breath of fresh air after the "camp leveling" system of EQ.
But as time went on, a side effect of the system became apparent. You didn't need the other players anymore. Moreover, you didn't even care about their existence most of the time. The game essentially turned into a single player game that just happened to exist in a shared world.
And now I think we've come to another crossroads in the genre. Folks are getting fed up with the quest-node system and the WoW model in general. They want something fresh, and a lot of developers seem to have picked up on that. In fact, we've got three major MMORPGs in development right now (Archeage, GW2, and TSW) that are trying to break the mold.
My hope is that one of them becomes the new "king" and ushers in a more social generation of MMORPGs.
Yup. One type of player liked EQ type grouping and didn't complain. Another type of player didn't like it and did complain. The next crop of games reacted to those complaints and moved towards soloing, which is fair enough, but didn't put in anything to replace grouping for the more sociable people. The more sociable players drifted away from mmos but it wasn't immediately obvious because the total number of mmorpg players was growing so rapidly. So the sequence would be
-> one set of players wanting a more solo game
-> game design changes
-> fewer sociable players
leading to a cycle where the composition of the different ypes of player shifts one way.
What's interesting to me is if it's possible to please both in one game.
i feel like a lot of players don't take responsibility for this problem. true, games don't give much incentive to be social, but they don't penalize it either, so to me this is a major failing of the players. the game isn't forcing you to be stone cold quiet in a pug. it doesn't make guilds filled with twerps. it doesn't fill the chat with $!%@^. these are problems with the players.
Quests are not group friendly, have you had a buddy in a mmo that you try to level with? unless you freeze that caracter with your buddy your pretty much screwed. When i play mmo with friends i need to level a couple of characters. one for each my friends i level with and one when i solo.
There are a few games out there that are more forgiving in this aspect but they are minorty and far apart.
Im a player that prefer grouping over soloing but there are to many mountains to climb to make this a viable gameplay.
The demographic has changed. Nowadays you see a lot broader range of MMO player types now that MMO's have become mainstream entertainment. The MMO developers have adapted to this and cater now not only to the players that only want to group, but try to cater to as many types of players.
A MMO doesnt become less social (unless it misses the features to support social behaviour, like a chat system or guild supporting mechanics). Its just that they now ALSO offer content that you can do on your own without being forced to interact with others.
As for social behaviour of players. I dont see a difference at all. There used to be antisocial jackasses in the early days too. The problem is just that you only need to have a few to annoy a lot of people. And with more players the chance of that becomes higher. It is just a reflection of society imo. Anywhere ppl gather, you will find antisocial ppl trying to mess with things.
I think its a combination of both seeing as how many people don't want to interact very much with one another so game designers make it where you don't have to if you don't want to. Though, I don't really see the point of playing any MORPG is you don't want to interact with anyone to accomplish a goal.
With the reasoning that the game starts once you hit max lvl youl just rush through the entire game, also the questing nowadays dont really promote group play since you can in most cases do it very easily on your own, grouping/socialising is not a neccesity nowadays.
Problem I have with modern mmos are that they are too casaul they feel meaningless, its all about gear/stuff. Previous mmos Ive played it was more about community, sure equipment were nice, loot is great but the guild/corps/clan said more about the player then his/her gear/stats. Also not to mention pre-wow mmos were not really mainstream, it had in the games I played a smaller playerbase so you kinda knew a lot more of the people you played with which made it easier striking up a conversation, now with the zoning system some games utilize thats all but gone.
Though, I don't really see the point of playing any MORPG is you don't want to interact with anyone to accomplish a goal.
MMORPGs used to be more cost effective when you did not max level in the blink of an eye. You could get more bang out of your buck in playing a MMORPG than a SPRPG. Persistent world, economies, there were/are many reasons to play a MMORPG by yourself or even with a small group of friends.
At times...other players are really just a nuisance now.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
If the majority of people did not want the way the games are designed, then the majority wouldn't play them.
In the above example why would you blame the developpers for catering to the mass of it's customers. Generally speaking that's how business stay open (especially niches).
I personally enjoy not having to sit around looking for a group or rely on guildies for everything. I enjoy the games I play but I don't have time for LFG etc... etc...
It's not quite as black and white as that. For one, features like the dungeon finder and cross server grouping have their pros and cons. Major pro being increased convenience, major con being less conducive to social behavior. Developers consciously chose the former was more important than the latter. On the players' side, as long as the latter con isn't completely gamebreaking, which it apparently isn't for most players even if they would prefer to retain the former required social behavior, they will continue to play.
So it's not so much catering to the masses who want less social interaction, but rather catering to masses who the developers feel would enjoy the increased convenience more than the loss of forced social interaction. It's still the developers decision. And using an argument from the masses pertaining to a game like WoW, which was one of the first to introduce the dungeon finder system, WoW was at its peak population before the implementation of the dungeon finder. While the reason's for WoW's recent decline in population surely vary, in no way can it be argued that the masses fundamentally support the decreased social interaction brought by the dungeon finder and other similar systems.
Originally posted by CalmOceans Originally posted by Quirhid Have they become less social? Really?
definitely, people jump in and out of MMO and you're lucky if anyone talk to you it's after a few years that this tends to change, socialising seems to go up the longer an MMO has been around (until there are of course not enough people to talk to anymore)
My issue is getting people to stop talking, not that they aren't talking enough.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I don't know that MMO players have become less social. That depends entirely on a subjective measure of what you consider "social". What I feel is happening is that the social interactions of players has changed from when I started playing MMO's in SWG and others, to what it is now. This is both the fault of the players, and the fault of the games we play. I could go on a long discourse about why but I'll save people the boredom of reading a long post.
little bit of both, when these games are designed they need to make sure that people can level, explore content etc by themselves which leads to a less social nature of the game. i doubt they want to inherintly force people to socialize, group etc when the design the game mechanics.
It is the players fault. They determine what trends will occur by voting with the almighty $.
Solo friendly games sell better.
Players bitch and moan on forums until a dungeon finder is added to the game.
Trading requires no communication at all because of AHs. If a game doesn't have an AH and requires communication and effort it will be a financial disaster (FFXIV).
Travel is extremely easy in most games, no escorts are needed (Eve is the exception).
Basically everything about MMOs simply boils down to what is the most convenient and easiest for the players. Players no longer want obstacles, instead they just want to have to take another step forward in order to progress. It is most profitable for the developers to make games that are time based rather than skill based because that will keep more players around longer; which means content will be easy and require little effort on the players part including social effort.
It is the players fault. They determine what trends will occur by voting with the almighty $.
Solo friendly games sell better.
Players bitch and moan on forums until a dungeon finder is added to the game.
Trading requires no communication at all because of AHs. If a game doesn't have an AH and requires communication and effort it will be a financial disaster (FFXIV).
Travel is extremely easy in most games, no escorts are needed (Eve is the exception).
Basically everything about MMOs simply boils down to what is the most convenient and easiest for the players. Players no longer want obstacles, instead they just want to have to take another step forward in order to progress. It is most profitable for the developers to make games that are time based rather than skill based because that will keep more players around longer; which means content will be easy and require little effort on the players part including social effort.
FF14 was distater becouse copy paste 80% locations. You were served long leveling with nothing but mob killing. Controls were made for consoles and preety fail for pc.
Comments
This vote is slightly one sided... your asking players to choose whether to pretty much blame the company or themselves. Who do you think they will choose? Companies make MMOs (or anything in that matter) based on what people want... and they seem to think people want alone time. So, that is what they will give them. So it is first the people's, then to make $ the companies make the games based off of this, so then it is their fualt. So evenly, I say. Now, to who started it, I'd like you to turn your attention to the very people who are posting on this. Including me. Of course.
Jiggly, OUT!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Hmm I don't think it's so simple as "the developers just gave us what we asked for" as you seem to imply and many others have stated outright.
I basically see the "de-socialization" of MMORPGs as a side effect of certain developers' well intentioned attempts to fix a real problem.
You see, when EQ was king, everybody socialized and grouped all the time. But it had a lot of problems that people often complained about. First, there was nothing to do but kill monsters pretty much and a lot of folks wanted "less of a grind." Second, most classes basically HAD to be in a group to level, and sometimes getting in a group took forever. And third, there were certain monster "camps" that were superior to others and these were always occupied by players. Sometimes you would have to wait in line to get a chance at the camp you were after.
So when Blizzard created WoW, I think they did so with all these problems in mind and tried to think of a good solution to them. Their main solution to the majority of these problems was the quest-node leveling system. With this system, you were always on the move and it reduced the feeling of a grind, there was essentially no more camping, and almost all quests were soloable so no more waiting for groups.
TBH, I loved this system when I first played it. It felt like a breath of fresh air after the "camp leveling" system of EQ.
But as time went on, a side effect of the system became apparent. You didn't need the other players anymore. Moreover, you didn't even care about their existence most of the time. The game essentially turned into a single player game that just happened to exist in a shared world.
And now I think we've come to another crossroads in the genre. Folks are getting fed up with the quest-node system and the WoW model in general. They want something fresh, and a lot of developers seem to have picked up on that. In fact, we've got three major MMORPGs in development right now (Archeage, GW2, and TSW) that are trying to break the mold.
My hope is that one of them becomes the new "king" and ushers in a more social generation of MMORPGs.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It wasn't just Blizzard. The entire industry seemed to focus on soloability for a period of at least five years, in part (I'm sure) because at the time--just after EQ's message board lashbacks over "forced grouping"--one of the most common player requests was for a better solo game.
Was a very noticeable trend in all of the games opening between '02 and '04, that the devs were consciously concentrating on the solo side of the game, and nearly all of them marketing-hyped it as a feature.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I agree, with you, but the future is much different from the past. I believe that yes there will be many changes soon, companies are noticing (and have for a while) the growth in the want to make a mmo a... mmo. Look at Guild Wars 2, it seems to be making headway. I would continue, but I have business to attend. But again, future and past are different, and I was answering for the past.
Jiggly, OUT!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
I thin k its because of voice chat, when I was younger and didnt use voice chat I used to talk with everyone around me.
Now I dont care for others. Im on vent with my friends and stop caring about pretty much everything.
Its sad...
Yup. One type of player liked EQ type grouping and didn't complain. Another type of player didn't like it and did complain. The next crop of games reacted to those complaints and moved towards soloing, which is fair enough, but didn't put in anything to replace grouping for the more sociable people. The more sociable players drifted away from mmos but it wasn't immediately obvious because the total number of mmorpg players was growing so rapidly. So the sequence would be
-> one set of players wanting a more solo game
-> game design changes
-> fewer sociable players
leading to a cycle where the composition of the different ypes of player shifts one way.
What's interesting to me is if it's possible to please both in one game.
(edit)
Posted in wrong thread...fail
i feel like a lot of players don't take responsibility for this problem. true, games don't give much incentive to be social, but they don't penalize it either, so to me this is a major failing of the players. the game isn't forcing you to be stone cold quiet in a pug. it doesn't make guilds filled with twerps. it doesn't fill the chat with $!%@^. these are problems with the players.
I will say it is game design
Quests are not group friendly, have you had a buddy in a mmo that you try to level with? unless you freeze that caracter with your buddy your pretty much screwed. When i play mmo with friends i need to level a couple of characters. one for each my friends i level with and one when i solo.
There are a few games out there that are more forgiving in this aspect but they are minorty and far apart.
Im a player that prefer grouping over soloing but there are to many mountains to climb to make this a viable gameplay.
Ill just take WoW as an example.
At vanilla, community was ok, everyone knew each other at endgame.
You had to make friends to make grouping for UBRS easier.
If you ninja'd, whole server knew that. The community was small.
It had to be small to become more social to each other.
But somehow Blizzard decided to make 7 servers together to "one".
Via cross-server Battleground que.
And yea, Lookign for Dungeon Finder.
Then community became TOOOO BIG. In capital cities, you don't know anyone anymore.
You never grouped them at all, you were only grouped with people from other server.
That is what has made "social" broken.
I hope that all MMO developers keep that in mind,
"Don't make community too big".
If they become too big, seperate them in each server then.
It is well known quote to my country,
"More souls together, more fun",
But I disagree,
It actually is,
"Less souls, how more close we are to each other".
It's not just the games. I mean you can so do much outside of MMO to communicate.
They introduced vent, they introduced many more forums, you can multitask while playing MMO, write on forums like this one..
People are being pulled out of MMO, so they take it less serious and some don't even want to socialise anymore in the MMO.
The demographic has changed. Nowadays you see a lot broader range of MMO player types now that MMO's have become mainstream entertainment. The MMO developers have adapted to this and cater now not only to the players that only want to group, but try to cater to as many types of players.
A MMO doesnt become less social (unless it misses the features to support social behaviour, like a chat system or guild supporting mechanics). Its just that they now ALSO offer content that you can do on your own without being forced to interact with others.
As for social behaviour of players. I dont see a difference at all. There used to be antisocial jackasses in the early days too. The problem is just that you only need to have a few to annoy a lot of people. And with more players the chance of that becomes higher. It is just a reflection of society imo. Anywhere ppl gather, you will find antisocial ppl trying to mess with things.
Have they become less social? Really?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
definitely, people jump in and out of MMO and you're lucky if anyone talk to you
it's after a few years that this tends to change, socialising seems to go up the longer an MMO has been around
(until there are of course not enough people to talk to anymore)
This has been said a few times, but it definitely needs to be repeated from time to time...I'm glad you did.
It does not matter if people are socializing more around their MMORPGs when the topic is about socializing less in the MMORPGs.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I think its a combination of both seeing as how many people don't want to interact very much with one another so game designers make it where you don't have to if you don't want to. Though, I don't really see the point of playing any MORPG is you don't want to interact with anyone to accomplish a goal.
With the reasoning that the game starts once you hit max lvl youl just rush through the entire game, also the questing nowadays dont really promote group play since you can in most cases do it very easily on your own, grouping/socialising is not a neccesity nowadays.
Problem I have with modern mmos are that they are too casaul they feel meaningless, its all about gear/stuff. Previous mmos Ive played it was more about community, sure equipment were nice, loot is great but the guild/corps/clan said more about the player then his/her gear/stats. Also not to mention pre-wow mmos were not really mainstream, it had in the games I played a smaller playerbase so you kinda knew a lot more of the people you played with which made it easier striking up a conversation, now with the zoning system some games utilize thats all but gone.
MMORPGs used to be more cost effective when you did not max level in the blink of an eye. You could get more bang out of your buck in playing a MMORPG than a SPRPG. Persistent world, economies, there were/are many reasons to play a MMORPG by yourself or even with a small group of friends.
At times...other players are really just a nuisance now.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
It's not quite as black and white as that. For one, features like the dungeon finder and cross server grouping have their pros and cons. Major pro being increased convenience, major con being less conducive to social behavior. Developers consciously chose the former was more important than the latter. On the players' side, as long as the latter con isn't completely gamebreaking, which it apparently isn't for most players even if they would prefer to retain the former required social behavior, they will continue to play.
So it's not so much catering to the masses who want less social interaction, but rather catering to masses who the developers feel would enjoy the increased convenience more than the loss of forced social interaction. It's still the developers decision. And using an argument from the masses pertaining to a game like WoW, which was one of the first to introduce the dungeon finder system, WoW was at its peak population before the implementation of the dungeon finder. While the reason's for WoW's recent decline in population surely vary, in no way can it be argued that the masses fundamentally support the decreased social interaction brought by the dungeon finder and other similar systems.
it's after a few years that this tends to change, socialising seems to go up the longer an MMO has been around
(until there are of course not enough people to talk to anymore)
My issue is getting people to stop talking, not that they aren't talking enough.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I don't know that MMO players have become less social. That depends entirely on a subjective measure of what you consider "social". What I feel is happening is that the social interactions of players has changed from when I started playing MMO's in SWG and others, to what it is now. This is both the fault of the players, and the fault of the games we play. I could go on a long discourse about why but I'll save people the boredom of reading a long post.
little bit of both, when these games are designed they need to make sure that people can level, explore content etc by themselves which leads to a less social nature of the game. i doubt they want to inherintly force people to socialize, group etc when the design the game mechanics.
Free online MMOs
It is the players fault. They determine what trends will occur by voting with the almighty $.
Solo friendly games sell better.
Players bitch and moan on forums until a dungeon finder is added to the game.
Trading requires no communication at all because of AHs. If a game doesn't have an AH and requires communication and effort it will be a financial disaster (FFXIV).
Travel is extremely easy in most games, no escorts are needed (Eve is the exception).
Basically everything about MMOs simply boils down to what is the most convenient and easiest for the players. Players no longer want obstacles, instead they just want to have to take another step forward in order to progress. It is most profitable for the developers to make games that are time based rather than skill based because that will keep more players around longer; which means content will be easy and require little effort on the players part including social effort.
FF14 was distater becouse copy paste 80% locations. You were served long leveling with nothing but mob killing. Controls were made for consoles and preety fail for pc.
I think it is the design of current MMORPG's, for reasons I have expressed in other threads.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard