Originally posted by Eteric Cae is from the D&L boards, she's probably here just to try to make Vanguard look bad, and to make D&L look great. I heard D&L doesn't even have any real dungeons... Eww... Ignore the damn troll, because that's all he/she is.
vangaurd doesnt need me to make them look bad
1) used game engine
2) reworked eq2 game systems
3) no pvp worth mentioning
4) and no idea of what they are doing
had my heart set on this but since E3 im convinced its another go at trying to get EQ2 to work right
which IMHO is a bad approach
DNL has open pvp in 10 realms 3 realms are home worlds with no pvp
each realm about the size of eq2
so its alot bigger then eq2's land mass with a land mass approx of the size of eq2 where no pvp takes place at all for each faction
land mass so big you can have groups of kiddies running around all day and not see another soul all week long
if you so choose
but vangaurd with its outdated game engine and eq2 game systems ought to be just right for you people
im not knocking your choice of games just showing you that you have to make a concious effort to have the vangaurd devs change some things before its too late
or else just as with eq2 there will be a constant flow of people leaving and only a trickle that want to play
currently eq2 has been voted as the worse game ever designed
to actually be basing vanguard on this pos is a terrible mistake
Originally posted by Ceara Originally posted by Eteric Cae is from the D&L boards, she's probably here just to try to make Vanguard look bad, and to make D&L look great. I heard D&L doesn't even have any real dungeons... Eww... Ignore the damn troll, because that's all he/she is. vangaurd doesnt need me to make them look bad 1) used game engine 2) reworked eq2 game systems 3) no pvp worth mentioning 4) and no idea of what they are doing
had my heart set on this but since E3 im convinced its another go at trying to get EQ2 to work right which IMHO is a bad approach DNL has open pvp in 10 realms 3 realms are home worlds with no pvp each realm about the size of eq2 so its alot bigger then eq2's land mass with a land mass approx of the size of eq2 where no pvp takes place at all for each faction land mass so big you can have groups of kiddies running around all day and not see another soul all week long if you so choose but vangaurd with its outdated game engine and eq2 game systems ought to be just right for you people im not knocking your choice of games just showing you that you have to make a concious effort to have the vangaurd devs change some things before its too late or else just as with eq2 there will be a constant flow of people leaving and only a trickle that want to play currently eq2 has been voted as the worse game ever designed to actually be basing vanguard on this pos is a terrible mistake
1. Um, the engine they're using is a very heavily modified version of the Unreal 2 engine. If they had to build they're own engine, it would take another year or two to get the game out, not to mention the extra costs. Unreal is a great and very capable engine.
2. What is re-worked? The whole fucking MMO market is basically re-worked everquest. Do you REALLY expect D&L to be all that great? You're blind.
3. They HAVEN'T EVEN MENTIONED THEIR IDEAS FOR PVP AND YET YOU BASH THEM... Shows your logic.
4. Yeah, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
land mass so big you can have groups of kiddies running around all day and not see another soul all week long
Wow, so much fun... A game where you just... Run... No interaction, wow...
im not knocking your choice of games just showing you that you have to make a concious effort to have the vangaurd devs change some things before its too late
You're not knocking it? Wow, I've never seen anyone lie like that.
currently eq2 has been voted as the worse game ever designed
When the HELL was this voted? There are TONS of MMORPGS that are MUCH worse then EQII.
You're just talking out of your butt. Seriously...
Originally posted by Ceara Originally posted by Eteric Cae is from the D&L boards, she's probably here just to try to make Vanguard look bad, and to make D&L look great. I heard D&L doesn't even have any real dungeons... Eww... Ignore the damn troll, because that's all he/she is. vangaurd doesnt need me to make them look bad 1) used game engine 2) reworked eq2 game systems 3) no pvp worth mentioning 4) and no idea of what they are doing
had my heart set on this but since E3 im convinced its another go at trying to get EQ2 to work right which IMHO is a bad approach DNL has open pvp in 10 realms 3 realms are home worlds with no pvp each realm about the size of eq2 so its alot bigger then eq2's land mass with a land mass approx of the size of eq2 where no pvp takes place at all for each faction land mass so big you can have groups of kiddies running around all day and not see another soul all week long if you so choose but vangaurd with its outdated game engine and eq2 game systems ought to be just right for you people im not knocking your choice of games just showing you that you have to make a concious effort to have the vangaurd devs change some things before its too late or else just as with eq2 there will be a constant flow of people leaving and only a trickle that want to play currently eq2 has been voted as the worse game ever designed to actually be basing vanguard on this pos is a terrible mistake
You know, we have all read you give those same points about 10 times in previous posts and obviously we all dissagree with you, so why do you keep spouting the same bulletpoints out at this point?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
You mean a provengame engine? Have you ever heard someone complain about the Unreal engine for rendering or physics? That's basically all Vanguard is using it for. And even there, they've heavily modified it, and changed it to do what they want it to do. Why spend 18 months creating a new engine that will do exactly what you can do with an existing one in 6 months?
2) reworked eq2 game systems
Oooh, yeah. Reworked EQ2 game systems... And you name any MMO on the market, and I'll describe for you how they are using little more than reworked systems from EQ or even UO. Most things are adaptation. And adaptation is what brings about innovation and evolution. There's little 'new' in the world. Most everything is an improved version of an pre-existing paradigm.
3) no pvp worth mentioning
A negative in your mind. But a plus in the minds of a sizeable percentage of the MMO audience.
4) and no idea of what they are doing
So number 4 is basically you saying "I can't think of a number 4"? How do you suggest they don't know what they are doing, when you don't really have a clue about what it is that they are doing. Your lack of information on Vanguard seems to be voluminous (that means big). We're talking about a team that has some of the most experienced game makers in the industry. Folks who've worked on UO, DAOC, SWG, EQ, EQ2.... the list goes on. They have a pedigree that really leaves little doubt about what they've seen and done in the industry, and therefor reinforces that they know of the mistakes they themselves have made in the past. And they aren't likely to repeat those same mistakes.
had my heart set on this but since E3 im convinced its another go at trying to get EQ2 to work right
E3 didn't show many of the things that people are most looking forward to. (I can't blame them. Every time they show something Sony announces an expansion with the same thing... hmmmmm...)
each realm about the size of eq2
so its alot bigger then eq2's land mass with a land mass approx of the size of eq2 where no pvp takes place at all for each faction
land mass so big you can have groups of kiddies running around all day and not see another soul all week long
EQ2 is tiny compaired to what Vanguard will be. One continent of the 4 starting continents is roughly 100 kilometers square in size. That's easily EQ2 in one continent. Vanguard looks to be the most massive gameworld anyone's ever tried to pull off. They need to, because they aren't instancing. If you want to talk about size being a bonus, Vanguard is the last game you want to butt heads with.
but vangaurd with its outdated game engine and eq2 game systems ought to be just right for you people
This is not a tough concept. They started with the Unreal 2.x engine as the foundation (because that was what was available and most proven at the start of development). Since then they've incorporated state of the art additions to it (like the Speedtree foliage rendering system), and coded their own additions (like a full 3dimensional pathing system, allowing flying creatures to reach high altitude and use swooping attacks on people on the ground). This is not your daddy's Unreal Engine anymore. It's unrecognizeable from it's origins. And it's worth it to point out that Sigil has a partnership with the Unreal people, so they are getting backend input and support directly from them. I would wager that much of what comprises the upgrades in Unreal 3.0 that was somewhat recently released, is because of the work between Sigil and Unreal on the Vanguard engine tweaks.
im not knocking your choice of games just showing you that you have to make a concious effort to have the vangaurd devs change some things before its too late
Yes, you are knocking our choices. What you feel are failures, we feel are returns to principles we more enjoyed that they kiddy fests that games use now. Both of us have our opinions. You want a simple interface, an easy to learn system, and pvp. We want a complex system, that's based on a PVE environment. You aren't right. We're not right. We're just going to the game we choose to play. Do us a favor, and do the same.
currently eq2 has been voted as the worse game ever designed
I call bs. I don't like that game at all, personally. It's not to my taste. But there are so many far more worthy candidates for that title. I'd like to see a link to the 'vote' that you state here, because I've never heard of it, and I stay on top of the MMO industry pretty well.
to actually be basing vanguard on this pos is a terrible mistake
No, the mistake lies in bashing Vanguard without the information needed to avoid looking ignorant.
I went to the D&L boards just to check it out. All I see is this person raving on about how D&L is so great compared to Vanguard and DDO... She/he event went as far as saying that D&L has superior graphics...
Come on...
Vanguard has excellent graphics, much better then D&L in my opinion.
After reading trough all the pages in this post, wich was chalenging in its own right hehe, i just see alot of ppl flaming eachother over congestures on how the game will play, for a game that is prolly still a year or more down the rode, 3rd-4th quarter release i think, its pointless to say this game mechaninc is wrong, or this one is right, best thing is to wait and see, consider tabula rasa, in a few months it suffered major design changes and let us no forget that microsoft is the publisher here with funds invested, remmenber the last time the backed up a major AAA mmorpg in development? yeah, the game got canceled far into the develpment cycle, so let us all corss our fingers and hope they dont mess up.
About the Unreal engine, everyone here know that Lineage 2, wich has osme of the best art/gfx in the market is using the unreal engine, the version before the one that vanguard is using, i believe vanguard will look great using the heavily modified U2 engine, its a solid base to build apon.
finaly, just want to add that im following this game very closely, its shaping up very good, tho i tend to keep away from the official game design boards, they are a complete mess, with ppl throwing unfeaseble ideas left and right, and heated discussions about the question if the game world should be flat or round hehe.
I think it's the more mature thinking crowd that really wants a game with depth, challenge, and vast lands to explore. The mainstream mmorpg's of today (such as WoW and EQ2) have been, for lack of a better term, dumbed down, to such a point that the ease of which one can achieve "l33t" status attracts those who want nothing more from a game than to level up quick so that they can walk all over others. I dont mean to say that everyone who plays these games are like that, but it's my personal opinion that this is what attracts those types of people.
This is one of the key reasons I'm looking forward to Vanguard. I expect there will be some of those people here too, but likely far less of them. Most people seem to like to equate Vanguard to EQ2, whereas it's clearly their objective to bring what EQ brought to gaming back into the market. I'd assume most of, or at least a great deal of the people who make this comparison are under the impression that EQ and EQ2 were made by the same people. I'm not positive, but I believe SOE actually BOUGHT EQ, and all rights thereof, somewhere around the release of the 3rd expansion (if this is incorrect, feel free to point it out).
In any case, even those who like to say "they havnt learned anything from EQ", need I point out that EQ happens to be the single most successful MMORPG of all time? So I think it would be more fair to say they've learned plenty from it....like how well it worked in it's hey day. It made you feel as though you actually were your character, you were adventuring, you were fighting vicious beasts, and (especially if you were an Iksar) trying to gain the trust of, or completely terrorize other cities; not just playing a game where you could do so. It made you fearful of dying, people would think twice before plunging head first into dangerous territory. Spells and abilities had to be earned either through quests, research (a form of crafting for those unfamiliar) or earning the money to buy from certain vendors rather than being awarded to you automatically upon level up, and they were worth it. There was always a spell, or a set of spells to look forward to, and often times they'd completely change the way you'd play your character. And yes, to fully explore the world, obtain the best treasures, subdue the toughest creatures, and push your abilities to their limits, you aboslutely needed allies with which to share your adventures. The purpose of an mmorpg being presented online is, after all, to support social interaction. As in life, if you aim to do everything yourself, you'll never reach the same hights of a person with good allies backing him/her up. To expect otherwise is simply foolish.
If, through Vanguard, Sigil really can bring all of these elements back into the mmorpg spectrum, and possibly add more to it as they do so, then I'd say they not only have a hit on their hands, but it could create a new MMORPG rennaisance.
Originally posted by SDFrost This is one of the key reasons I'm looking forward to Vanguard. I expect there will be some of those people here too, but likely far less of them. Most people seem to like to equate Vanguard to EQ2, whereas it's clearly their objective to bring what EQ brought to gaming back into the market. I'd assume most of, or at least a great deal of the people who make this comparison are under the impression that EQ and EQ2 were made by the same people. I'm not positive, but I believe SOE actually BOUGHT EQ, and all rights thereof, somewhere around the release of the 3rd expansion (if this is incorrect, feel free to point it out).
John Smedley (Ceo of SOE) commissioned Everquest. At the beginning the company was called SISA (Sony Interactive Studios America). Smedley hired Brad McQuaid and Steve Clover as lead programmers for Everquest. Meanwhile SISA became 989 Studios, and also Soe was founded. Both Companies are part of the Sony Digital Picture family. Everquest, which was credited to being developed by 989 and published by SOE at launch entered Beta in 1998. Later 989 Studios shifted strategy to make Console games, leaving Everquest entirely to SOE. In 2000 John Smedley eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be SOE's Chief Creative Officer. In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and went on to found Sigil Online Games, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE to develop their Vanguard: Saga of Heroes MMORPG. After that, the rest is history.
Now Brad Mcquaid is working on Vanguard and history will be re-written
Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by SDFrost This is one of the key reasons I'm looking forward to Vanguard. I expect there will be some of those people here too, but likely far less of them. Most people seem to like to equate Vanguard to EQ2, whereas it's clearly their objective to bring what EQ brought to gaming back into the market. I'd assume most of, or at least a great deal of the people who make this comparison are under the impression that EQ and EQ2 were made by the same people. I'm not positive, but I believe SOE actually BOUGHT EQ, and all rights thereof, somewhere around the release of the 3rd expansion (if this is incorrect, feel free to point it out). John Smedley (Ceo of SOE) commissioned Everquest.He gave the job to develop the game to Verant studios, which was part of SoE.Soon after, SoE took the game under its wings and appointed Brad Mcquaid as producer (Mcquaid was already lead programmer in Verant)After that, the rest is history.Now Brad Mcquaid is working on Vanguard and history will be re-written
Yes, how not to make an MMO for he lifestyles of 2005.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Correction noted. Thanks for pointing out my error in a mature, informative way. This is what I'm talking about though, had I made such a comment on, say, the WoW boards (just as an example) I would likely have been flamed to hell and back for a simple error based on gossip and conjecture of 2 years ago. Vanguard, already, seems to have gathered a more mature following than it's peers, which to me does nothing less than add to the game's appeal. Thanks again guys.
Originally posted by SDFrost Correction noted. Thanks for pointing out my error in a mature, informative way. This is what I'm talking about though, had I made such a comment on, say, the WoW boards (just as an example) I would likely have been flamed to hell and back for a simple error based on gossip and conjecture of 2 years ago. Vanguard, already, seems to have gathered a more mature following than it's peers, which to me does nothing less than add to the game's appeal. Thanks again guys.
Caera you really need to take a typing class. I can handle the odd spelling mistake or some bad grammar, or someone who obviously doesn't speak English as a first language. That however is an entirely new beast and it's horrid.
Anyway what I don't understand is how most (not all) people who bash Vanguard just "happen" to be people who were wildly looking forward to it but now are all disillusioned and say it will suck. Is that because they if they used to be fans somehow their opinion is more valid. I don't understand this at all.
And I always think it's funny that these same people who trumpet the fact they were such huge fans, always come up with blatantly biased info like "VANGUARD IS JUST EQ2"" "VANGUARDS GRAPHICS ARE SO BAD" which are wrong but at least subjective. Then they continue by just blatantly false information like "VANGUARD NEEDS TO PUT IN MORE QUESTS" "VANGUARD IS ONLY APPEALING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE HARDCORE L@MERS" "SIGIL IS CLUELESS AND I KNOW BETTER "WHY DOESNT SIGIL INCLUDE PVP. People that have obviously not read the FAQ let alone followed the game at all.
So all I ask to you Vanguard bashers, is quit pretending you were huge fans of the game, because it's extremely obvious from your lack of knowledge, you are pretty clueless.
Listen, no one cares about each other opnion, everyone just shut up if you dont like the game, your useless nagging and false information isnt going to stop anyone who isnt stupid and knows the real information.
Im sure it will be better than eq2. You know they had to look at eq2 and wow and take note, after all they are in business for the money. Any ways we have to wait and see.
Originally posted by claith I was looking forward to this game ,but not anymore,its gonna be nothing but an EQ2 clone of forced grouping and bullshit,they have'nt learned anything ,have they? Anyways,i'll inform my firends and gamer friends that they don't wanna try this now,cause Brad Mcquaid is trying to follow in EQ2 footsteps and that game sucs severely.It will be linear and most content you won't even see unless you got a full group and 8 hrs of playtime available.Grouping is damn near impossible in EQ2,so now the boneheads think that shit works??lmao Eat you product!
Actually, its from the writers of the first EQ. The game stated it is going to be a GROUP ORIENTED game. Good for them, imo. I have been lookin for a game that captures the magic EQ1 did. If you dont like it, you dont have to post about it. The first Everquest it was ALL group oriented, well almost. Some people like it, some dont. You may not, but dont troll.
Go back to your bridge.
--Nyture, Arc Convoker of fironia vie server (EQ) --Retired-- -- Nytur 39 Conjuror of Lucan D'lere (Quit due to low populations) -- Currently playing WoW while waiting for vanguard Explorer 66% Socializer 60% Killer 53% Achiever 20%
PLEASE SOE MAKE A CLASSIC EQ SERVER. Shadow of luclin was a prick in EQs side. PoP Was a gun to the face.
I too am (somewhat) patiently awaiting the next game to bring magic to mmorpg's. I was hoping that Vanguard would be it, as EQ is currently my favorite game of all time. (no longer playing however due to the many nerfs/changes that Sony likes to impose on us). I tried EQ2 also, but once again got tired of SOE's inability to plan ahead, and when they destroyed the commerce of EQ2, I quit after a week of giving them a chance to realize their error.
Unfortunately, I'm now thinking that Vanguard doesn't have anything to make it 'special' out there. I hope I'm wrong, because I need SOMETHING to look forewards to. Right now I'm waiting for Dark & Light, or something to beta.
Grouping and raids (especially raids) are what made EQ fun. For those that don't like groupping, why are you playing mmorpg's anyways? I never understood that. Get online, make friends and stick with groups of folks you know and like, if none of them are on, solo a bit, or take a chance on a pick-up group. But to play an mmorpg just to solo? Anyways, I hope something comes out soon, because WoW didn't do it for me either, City of Hero's got old fast, and I DO want something with half way decent graphics all you developers out there...they don't have to be great, but don't make me play something that looks 5+ years old now!
EQ1 was great, they started to over do it after velious I think, but was still a great game... EQ2 was a HUGE upset, I myself was expecting a lot more, there was no draw of attention like EQ1 had when you first started.
But like I saw earlier in this thread, these guys aren't stupid.. they see how many people are disappointed with this game, they've been looking at whats liked and whats not, and also know the best they can how to attract casual and hardcore gamers. (people will never all be happy, someones always gonna complain about something or be pissy, we all know this.)
Im counting on this game not being an upset like eq2, I think the only reason people say clone is cause they look at graphics which do look similar, thats it. Im sure the content will be much more addicting.
Originally posted by mjr727 EQ1 was great, they started to over do it after velious I think, but was still a great game... EQ2 was a HUGE upset, I myself was expecting a lot more, there was no draw of attention like EQ1 had when you first started.
But like I saw earlier in this thread, these guys aren't stupid.. they see how many people are disappointed with this game, they've been looking at whats liked and whats not, and also know the best they can how to attract casual and hardcore gamers. (people will never all be happy, someones always gonna complain about something or be pissy, we all know this.)
Im counting on this game not being an upset like eq2, I think the only reason people say clone is cause they look at graphics which do look similar, thats it. Im sure the content will be much more addicting.
Welcome to the site mjr727! I see you and I are of a similar mindset. I agree with you completely except about EQ2. I too was fairly dissapointed at launch with EQ2. It was repetitive and just too dang easy.
Well since launch they have been working hard adding seriously TONS of content. And now with the release of the fist true expansion and the Combat Revamp the game is truly amazing and challenging! I will be playing it until Vanguard comes out and I seriously suggest you give EQ2 another try!
It is now difficult to log out, very addictive. With the combat revamp they made it VERY much more challenging and rewarding, I cannot overstate how far it has come in the past 3 months. If you were a former subscriber I believe you can reactivate for 7 days free simply by logging in.
Anyways can't wait for Vanguard but EQ2 is keeping me really happy in the meantime.
Comments
vangaurd doesnt need me to make them look bad
1) used game engine
2) reworked eq2 game systems
3) no pvp worth mentioning
4) and no idea of what they are doing
had my heart set on this but since E3 im convinced its another go at trying to get EQ2 to work right
which IMHO is a bad approach
DNL has open pvp in 10 realms 3 realms are home worlds with no pvp
each realm about the size of eq2
so its alot bigger then eq2's land mass with a land mass approx of the size of eq2 where no pvp takes place at all for each faction
land mass so big you can have groups of kiddies running around all day and not see another soul all week long
if you so choose
but vangaurd with its outdated game engine and eq2 game systems ought to be just right for you people
im not knocking your choice of games just showing you that you have to make a concious effort to have the vangaurd devs change some things before its too late
or else just as with eq2 there will be a constant flow of people leaving and only a trickle that want to play
currently eq2 has been voted as the worse game ever designed
to actually be basing vanguard on this pos is a terrible mistake
Oh! Well! If Ceara said it, it HAS to be true!
1. Um, the engine they're using is a very heavily modified version of the Unreal 2 engine. If they had to build they're own engine, it would take another year or two to get the game out, not to mention the extra costs. Unreal is a great and very capable engine.
2. What is re-worked? The whole fucking MMO market is basically re-worked everquest. Do you REALLY expect D&L to be all that great? You're blind.
3. They HAVEN'T EVEN MENTIONED THEIR IDEAS FOR PVP AND YET YOU BASH THEM... Shows your logic.
4. Yeah, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Wow, so much fun... A game where you just... Run... No interaction, wow...
You're not knocking it? Wow, I've never seen anyone lie like that.
When the HELL was this voted? There are TONS of MMORPGS that are MUCH worse then EQII.
You're just talking out of your butt. Seriously...
Whoops, double post.
You know, we have all read you give those same points about 10 times in previous posts and obviously we all dissagree with you, so why do you keep spouting the same bulletpoints out at this point?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
You mean a proven game engine? Have you ever heard someone complain about the Unreal engine for rendering or physics? That's basically all Vanguard is using it for. And even there, they've heavily modified it, and changed it to do what they want it to do. Why spend 18 months creating a new engine that will do exactly what you can do with an existing one in 6 months?
Oooh, yeah. Reworked EQ2 game systems... And you name any MMO on the market, and I'll describe for you how they are using little more than reworked systems from EQ or even UO. Most things are adaptation. And adaptation is what brings about innovation and evolution. There's little 'new' in the world. Most everything is an improved version of an pre-existing paradigm.
A negative in your mind. But a plus in the minds of a sizeable percentage of the MMO audience.
So number 4 is basically you saying "I can't think of a number 4"? How do you suggest they don't know what they are doing, when you don't really have a clue about what it is that they are doing. Your lack of information on Vanguard seems to be voluminous (that means big). We're talking about a team that has some of the most experienced game makers in the industry. Folks who've worked on UO, DAOC, SWG, EQ, EQ2.... the list goes on. They have a pedigree that really leaves little doubt about what they've seen and done in the industry, and therefor reinforces that they know of the mistakes they themselves have made in the past. And they aren't likely to repeat those same mistakes.
E3 didn't show many of the things that people are most looking forward to. (I can't blame them. Every time they show something Sony announces an expansion with the same thing... hmmmmm...)
EQ2 is tiny compaired to what Vanguard will be. One continent of the 4 starting continents is roughly 100 kilometers square in size. That's easily EQ2 in one continent. Vanguard looks to be the most massive gameworld anyone's ever tried to pull off. They need to, because they aren't instancing. If you want to talk about size being a bonus, Vanguard is the last game you want to butt heads with.
This is not a tough concept. They started with the Unreal 2.x engine as the foundation (because that was what was available and most proven at the start of development). Since then they've incorporated state of the art additions to it (like the Speedtree foliage rendering system), and coded their own additions (like a full 3dimensional pathing system, allowing flying creatures to reach high altitude and use swooping attacks on people on the ground). This is not your daddy's Unreal Engine anymore. It's unrecognizeable from it's origins. And it's worth it to point out that Sigil has a partnership with the Unreal people, so they are getting backend input and support directly from them. I would wager that much of what comprises the upgrades in Unreal 3.0 that was somewhat recently released, is because of the work between Sigil and Unreal on the Vanguard engine tweaks.
Yes, you are knocking our choices. What you feel are failures, we feel are returns to principles we more enjoyed that they kiddy fests that games use now. Both of us have our opinions. You want a simple interface, an easy to learn system, and pvp. We want a complex system, that's based on a PVE environment. You aren't right. We're not right. We're just going to the game we choose to play. Do us a favor, and do the same.
I call bs. I don't like that game at all, personally. It's not to my taste. But there are so many far more worthy candidates for that title. I'd like to see a link to the 'vote' that you state here, because I've never heard of it, and I stay on top of the MMO industry pretty well.
No, the mistake lies in bashing Vanguard without the information needed to avoid looking ignorant.
-Feyshtey-
Thank you Feyshtey.
I went to the D&L boards just to check it out. All I see is this person raving on about how D&L is so great compared to Vanguard and DDO... She/he event went as far as saying that D&L has superior graphics...
Come on...
Vanguard has excellent graphics, much better then D&L in my opinion.
After reading trough all the pages in this post, wich was chalenging in its own right hehe, i just see alot of ppl flaming eachother over congestures on how the game will play, for a game that is prolly still a year or more down the rode, 3rd-4th quarter release i think, its pointless to say this game mechaninc is wrong, or this one is right, best thing is to wait and see, consider tabula rasa, in a few months it suffered major design changes and let us no forget that microsoft is the publisher here with funds invested, remmenber the last time the backed up a major AAA mmorpg in development? yeah, the game got canceled far into the develpment cycle, so let us all corss our fingers and hope they dont mess up.
About the Unreal engine, everyone here know that Lineage 2, wich has osme of the best art/gfx in the market is using the unreal engine, the version before the one that vanguard is using, i believe vanguard will look great using the heavily modified U2 engine, its a solid base to build apon.
finaly, just want to add that im following this game very closely, its shaping up very good, tho i tend to keep away from the official game design boards, they are a complete mess, with ppl throwing unfeaseble ideas left and right, and heated discussions about the question if the game world should be flat or round hehe.
My intention wasn't to upset people it was to draw attention to what I believe are deficiencies in this game
that said I appologize for any feelings that I may have hurt
hope you can understand how people can be crushed by expectations falling short
i am sure this game will be a very well made game with top rung grarphics
and a storyline and game system that is well worth the wait to play
especially the content end promises to be
very good
I just wish it more too my liking
in the end one gets out of the game only what the people put into it if it attracts mature like minded people then it will be a great game
at this stage its in its infancy and to pass judgement on it is a mistake on my part as well as many others only
ENJOy the game peeps
sorry to disturb your world
I think it's the more mature thinking crowd that really wants a game
with depth, challenge, and vast lands to explore. The mainstream
mmorpg's of today (such as WoW and EQ2) have been, for lack of a better
term, dumbed down, to such a point that the ease of which one can
achieve "l33t" status attracts those who want nothing more from a game
than to level up quick so that they can walk all over others. I dont
mean to say that everyone who plays these games are like that, but it's
my personal opinion that this is what attracts those types of people.
This is one of the key reasons I'm looking forward to Vanguard. I expect
there will be some of those people here too, but likely far less of
them. Most people seem to like to equate Vanguard to EQ2, whereas it's
clearly their objective to bring what EQ brought to gaming back into the
market. I'd assume most of, or at least a great deal of the people who
make this comparison are under the impression that EQ and EQ2 were made
by the same people. I'm not positive, but I believe SOE actually BOUGHT
EQ, and all rights thereof, somewhere around the release of the 3rd
expansion (if this is incorrect, feel free to point it out).
In any case, even those who like to say "they havnt learned anything
from EQ", need I point out that EQ happens to be the single most
successful MMORPG of all time? So I think it would be more fair to say
they've learned plenty from it....like how well it worked in it's hey
day. It made you feel as though you actually were your character, you
were adventuring, you were fighting vicious beasts, and (especially if
you were an Iksar) trying to gain the trust of, or completely terrorize
other cities; not just playing a game where you could do so. It made you
fearful of dying, people would think twice before plunging head first
into dangerous territory. Spells and abilities had to be earned either
through quests, research (a form of crafting for those unfamiliar) or
earning the money to buy from certain vendors rather than being awarded
to you automatically upon level up, and they were worth it. There was
always a spell, or a set of spells to look forward to, and often times
they'd completely change the way you'd play your character. And yes, to
fully explore the world, obtain the best treasures, subdue the toughest
creatures, and push your abilities to their limits, you aboslutely
needed allies with which to share your adventures. The purpose of an
mmorpg being presented online is, after all, to support social
interaction. As in life, if you aim to do everything yourself, you'll
never reach the same hights of a person with good allies backing him/her
up. To expect otherwise is simply foolish.
If, through Vanguard, Sigil really can bring all of these elements back
into the mmorpg spectrum, and possibly add more to it as they do so,
then I'd say they not only have a hit on their hands, but it could
create a new MMORPG rennaisance.
John Smedley (Ceo of SOE) commissioned Everquest.
At the beginning the company was called SISA (Sony Interactive Studios America).
Smedley hired Brad McQuaid and Steve Clover as lead programmers for Everquest.
Meanwhile SISA became 989 Studios, and also Soe was founded. Both Companies are part of the Sony Digital Picture family.
Everquest, which was credited to being developed by 989 and published by SOE at launch entered Beta in 1998.
Later 989 Studios shifted strategy to make Console games, leaving Everquest entirely to SOE.
In 2000 John Smedley eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be SOE's Chief Creative Officer.
In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and went on to found Sigil Online Games, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE to develop their Vanguard: Saga of Heroes MMORPG.
After that, the rest is history.
Now Brad Mcquaid is working on Vanguard and history will be re-written
Yes, how not to make an MMO for he lifestyles of 2005.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Correction noted. Thanks for pointing out my error in a mature,
informative way. This is what I'm talking about though, had I made such
a comment on, say, the WoW boards (just as an example) I would likely
have been flamed to hell and back for a simple error based on gossip and
conjecture of 2 years ago. Vanguard, already, seems to have gathered a
more mature following than it's peers, which to me does nothing less
than add to the game's appeal. Thanks again guys.
Caera you really need to take a typing class. I can handle the odd spelling mistake or some bad grammar, or someone who obviously doesn't speak English as a first language. That however is an entirely new beast and it's horrid.
Anyway what I don't understand is how most (not all) people who bash Vanguard just "happen" to be people who were wildly looking forward to it but now are all disillusioned and say it will suck. Is that because they if they used to be fans somehow their opinion is more valid. I don't understand this at all.
And I always think it's funny that these same people who trumpet the fact they were such huge fans, always come up with blatantly biased info like "VANGUARD IS JUST EQ2"" "VANGUARDS GRAPHICS ARE SO BAD" which are wrong but at least subjective. Then they continue by just blatantly false information like "VANGUARD NEEDS TO PUT IN MORE QUESTS" "VANGUARD IS ONLY APPEALING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE HARDCORE L@MERS" "SIGIL IS CLUELESS AND I KNOW BETTER "WHY DOESNT SIGIL INCLUDE PVP. People that have obviously not read the FAQ let alone followed the game at all.
So all I ask to you Vanguard bashers, is quit pretending you were huge fans of the game, because it's extremely obvious from your lack of knowledge, you are pretty clueless.
Listen, no one cares about each other opnion, everyone just shut up if you dont like the game, your useless nagging and false information isnt going to stop anyone who isnt stupid and knows the real information.
--Nyture, Arc Convoker of fironia vie server (EQ) --Retired--
-- Nytur 39 Conjuror of Lucan D'lere (Quit due to low populations)
-- Currently playing WoW while waiting for vanguard
Explorer 66%
Socializer 60%
Killer 53%
Achiever 20%
PLEASE SOE MAKE A CLASSIC EQ SERVER. Shadow of luclin was a prick in EQs side. PoP Was a gun to the face.
I too am (somewhat) patiently awaiting the next game to bring magic to mmorpg's. I was hoping that Vanguard would be it, as EQ is currently my favorite game of all time. (no longer playing however due to the many nerfs/changes that Sony likes to impose on us). I tried EQ2 also, but once again got tired of SOE's inability to plan ahead, and when they destroyed the commerce of EQ2, I quit after a week of giving them a chance to realize their error.
Unfortunately, I'm now thinking that Vanguard doesn't have anything to make it 'special' out there. I hope I'm wrong, because I need SOMETHING to look forewards to. Right now I'm waiting for Dark & Light, or something to beta.
Grouping and raids (especially raids) are what made EQ fun. For those that don't like groupping, why are you playing mmorpg's anyways? I never understood that. Get online, make friends and stick with groups of folks you know and like, if none of them are on, solo a bit, or take a chance on a pick-up group. But to play an mmorpg just to solo? Anyways, I hope something comes out soon, because WoW didn't do it for me either, City of Hero's got old fast, and I DO want something with half way decent graphics all you developers out there...they don't have to be great, but don't make me play something that looks 5+ years old now!
Just wait, this will be the second most popular mmorpg after WoW, ignoring the Eastern mass mmorpgs.
But like I saw earlier in this thread, these guys aren't stupid.. they see how many people are disappointed with this game, they've been looking at whats liked and whats not, and also know the best they can how to attract casual and hardcore gamers. (people will never all be happy, someones always gonna complain about something or be pissy, we all know this.)
Im counting on this game not being an upset like eq2, I think the only reason people say clone is cause they look at graphics which do look similar, thats it. Im sure the content will be much more addicting.
Welcome to the site mjr727! I see you and I are of a similar mindset. I agree with you completely except about EQ2. I too was fairly dissapointed at launch with EQ2. It was repetitive and just too dang easy.
Well since launch they have been working hard adding seriously TONS of content. And now with the release of the fist true expansion and the Combat Revamp the game is truly amazing and challenging! I will be playing it until Vanguard comes out and I seriously suggest you give EQ2 another try!
It is now difficult to log out, very addictive. With the combat revamp they made it VERY much more challenging and rewarding, I cannot overstate how far it has come in the past 3 months. If you were a former subscriber I believe you can reactivate for 7 days free simply by logging in.
Anyways can't wait for Vanguard but EQ2 is keeping me really happy in the meantime.