The big thing people have to realize is that the talents and abilties they showcased for 2.0 at Blizzcon were a rough build. I'm sure as we move closer and closer to MoP's release they'll add/remove/change various talents and abilties while staying true to their goal of giving players more choice.
If people want to continue ragging on Blizzard for how WoW is evolving that's their choice but it irritates me to no end when people just assume that even though MoP was announced not a few weeks ago that the features it will bring are already set in stone.
I'm personally also very excited for MoP and I eagerly await my chance to participate in the beta (I signed on for the annual pass).
Pretty much what Praetalus said, no idea why people fail to see that. Up until now a fire mage for example had only 1-2 cookie cutter builds viable I assume. With this amazing talent system the cookie cutter builds are gone, instead you are presented with fewer but IMPORTANT choices to do as you please. This is a win in my book and about time Blizzard did it. I hope the games I will decide to play and use a talent system catch up with this.
Replacing cookie cutter with less choice is just that. Every expansion for mages follow same path btw, bliss will do 1 or 2 passes with the talent trees. You are going to see tweaks and maybe 1 or 2 new talents. Are you guys on the payroll?:p. I had a wee look at the usual pro Mage websites and the general opinion was dull and poorly formed. Seems pretty obvious to anyone that has played the class for years.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Being upset about the talent 2.0 system means you are probably uninformed on the subject, I see a lot of you who just focus on the number "6" and not the fact that the number of talent choices you have now is "1".
YES ladies and gentlemen you now have 5 more choices!
Somehow thats a bad thing?
(In other words, talents as they are now are so cookie cutter there are no "real" game changing choices for specs, you pick the "optimal" one and go with it. This provides REAL choices, meaning 5 more choices than we have now.)
So please, focus on the details, don't just bindly reply with "lol 6 talents? WTF blizz" It makes us all sad panda.
1 new talent every 15 levels is freaking horrible player freedom. I was devestated when Blizzard dumbed down talents in Cata. The talent fiasco for Cata plus the removal of Path of the Titans and the Guild Leveling system did it for me, this will kill it for alot of others too.
DO NOT REMOVE FEATURES BLIZZARD!
Path of the titans was never in the game, they're adding choices not taking them away, current talents do not provide options or customization.
Please consider the fact that 1 cookie cutter talent tree build is not better than 3 choices per 6 rows of talents. That is FAR more choice.
Also the guild leveling system is in the game, so unless you mean you wish it didn't make it to live.. then I'd understand, but that directly contradicts your ending statement.
I am not forking over more money to have to re-earn level 70 talents that are pushed to level 90 (Vendetta, shadow dance, kspree). I aleady forked over money for Cata for Combat Readiness and now it is being taken away and is a talent choice instead?
Being upset about the talent 2.0 system means you are probably uninformed on the subject, I see a lot of you who just focus on the number "6" and not the fact that the number of talent choices you have now is "1".
YES ladies and gentlemen you now have 5 more choices!
Somehow thats a bad thing?
(In other words, talents as they are now are so cookie cutter there are no "real" game changing choices for specs, you pick the "optimal" one and go with it. This provides REAL choices, meaning 5 more choices than we have now.)
So please, focus on the details, don't just bindly reply with "lol 6 talents? WTF blizz" It makes us all sad panda.
Six real choices? I suppose, but the choice is somewhat incongruous. Like the polymorph tier, would the stun help in a dungeon setting? Probably not. Would the decreased healing on the target help in a dungeon setting? Probably, but I'm not seeing that make or break anything. Would polymorphing two targets help in a dungeon setting? Absolutely, it might even be a game changer in a really tough dungeon in the next xpax if the group desperately needs CC.
That isn't much of a choice.
The alpha title of this article was "Inconsequential Choices" for just that reason, at least concerning a bunch of the mage talent choices.
Sorry to all those who try to "glorify" those new talent choices. But where you see 3 choices, i only see a useless choice, a pvp choice and a pve choice. Any min/maxer out there will read these and instantly see the right choice for the right situation.
Maybe for pvp you can try to take another talent depending on your arena composition, but otherwise i don't see any reason to not be taking the best talent.
Those new talent trees are by far the worst changes made in MoP.
Sorry to all those who try to "glorify" those new talent choices. But where you see 3 choices, i only see a useless choice, a pvp choice and a pve choice. Any min/maxer out there will read these and instantly see the right choice for the right situation.
Maybe for pvp you can try to take another talent depending on your arena composition, but otherwise i don't see any reason to not be taking the best talent.
Those new talent trees are by far the worst changes made in MoP.
So explain to me how there was any choice before? The first thing people do when they make a character is head to elitistjerks.com and see where they should put everything. The tress are filled now with useless horseshit filler. You don't have a choice now, cause if you're not built correctly, no one will take you for anything. And if you're frost, you have IB, Fire, Blazing Speed, etc. At least now you can pick the spec you want and not miss out on some really awesome talents from a spec to which you don't belong. The min/maxers are the minority. The casual, like me, are the majority and we like to have a choice of talents and don't care if it takes a little dps away.
If you don't think the game is catering to guys like me, causal gamers and not the min/maxers, you're insane. I personally can't wait til most of the number crunchers split. Will make my game even more enjoyable...lol
Games never aim to please the hardcore. You know why? They're not where the money is.. I am. The casual gamer takes longer to complete the content and will more then likely keep their subsription longer then a hardcore gamer that burns through everything in a week or two and spends all day bitching about how there's no end game. You can't make a game to please people who sit around playing games for 6-8 hours a day. If you don't agree.. just look at how things are going.. It's a good time to be a casual gamer IMO, and WoW is the perfect example.
I agree this is not a Fix, I quit World OF Warcraft because of their mess in ruining the original game with their expansions. I bought all the collectors of wow up to Lich king and said forget it enough wasting my money to pay for Blizzard a game that now fails.
They story changes, and story line obviously made no sense at all no realism at all period, Blood Elves, The Alien Race magically is put into the game with no story at all, and the Lich king they could have made the game better and more detailed.
On top of this game attunement is just plain stupid if you want to run a dungeon you should not be reuqired to attune unless it is going to give you a Magicial godly weapon or something that u have to use to enter another dungeons magical barrier for example otherwise there is no point.
The Talents, Blizzard ruined mages for me when they drop one nerf after another on mages, first it was can't use Arcane Power + POM and Pyro anymore, and totally gave warlocks and priest the upper hands in the game, this was not a fix at all period, and this was because kids cried OMG Over Powered which it really wasn't in a BG even if it did crit it was maybe a 1 hit kill if you were lucky unless the other person had very sucky gear on.
Also Wow is based around Gear, no Customizations like Rift, or any other game so u can make your armor look like anything you want totally blows now, and this new Talent Tree is the worst I have ever seen, I refuse to even think about going back to wow.
Hey I might not like NC Soft, but at least Lineage 2 is going free 2 play, this will compete with other games on the market that are knock off versions of their game to begin with, and may cause some of them to go out of business, wow might just loose a lot more customers, and DCUO took over both Champions Online & COH for me. Oh and if Runes OF Magic offers optional subscripton packages/perks and improves their game crashes/memory leaks they could possibly take down wow now from all the wow fans that are no longer happy with wow
Bottom Line is do not buy, or play wow it is not worthit, and no longer a good game it once was. I was a player of wow too for at least 16 hours a day + with quite a few high/mid level toons and I can say from ym experienec it isn't worth playing now when they base everything around nothing but gear, wasting your Real Life, and not giving any perks or trade up armor and such and just making rapid changes to the Talent Tree like this, maybe they should just get rid of talent's all together, and make it runes or something that gives bonus or something since they made it this bad.
If you try to think more about this new talents you will see how good they are. That was best way to do it. But 6 years is 6 years and now is time for change. It was best gaming time in my life and i highly recommend wow to any new generation of players.Who knows, one month sub is not to much just to see how it works Force here i come! Bye, bye to beautiful world of Azeroth, it was epic expirience and it will stay forever in my heart
I really really really hope this talent horror never enters production. MORE points are needed, not less! Already that cata introduced regarding talents is total mess. I prefer getting every single level 1 point which I will eventually put into 15/15 of something! Fun with leveling is getting every level some cookie.
I really really really hope this talent horror never enters production. MORE points are needed, not less! Already that cata introduced regarding talents is total mess. I prefer getting every single level 1 point which I will eventually put into 15/15 of something! Fun with leveling is getting every level some cookie.
Honestly though, really, how fun is the current talent system, or the talent system from before?
During every single incarnation of WoW, there hasn't been much of a choice in what talents you can select. You followed a path of min/max because it was mathematically proven to be the best choices time and time again. At least in this system, there is some type of choice to be made. You'll still get your cookies as you level, in the form of skills/spells. Talents are there to round out your style of play.
Besides, anyone making actual decisions based upon this first pass of talents we've seen for the classes is a bit silly. Blizzard even stated at Blizzcon that the talent trees will most likely change. These are ideas and examples, nothing is set in stone atm.
So explain to me how there was any choice before? The first thing people do when they make a character is head to elitistjerks.com and see where they should put everything..... The min/maxers are the minority. The casual, like me, are the majority and we like to have a choice of talents and don't care if it takes a little dps away.
If you don't think the game is catering to guys like me, causal gamers and not the min/maxers, you're insane. I personally can't wait til most of the number crunchers split. Will make my game even more enjoyable...
So you think "casuals" like you actually know that elitistjerks.com even exist? Sorry but most "casuals" don't use forums and websites to max out their stats and builds. If you and the majority like to have choices and don't care if it takes a little dps away, why are you even using cookie-cutter builds and why will you be using elitistjerks any less, in a year, then now? Those new "choices" are illusions plain and simple. Theres still a best build for pvp/pve and stupid builds for "casuals" like you who dont care about their dps but still use elitistjerks for their builds (im still confused about that part). Pure dps like mage or rogue have it easy with situationnal choices, hybrids like pally and druids clearly have a single right choice depending on their role.
They completely destroyed any versatility in talent trees with cata by shrunking the trees and forcing you to use a whole tree before going into another one, and those new "choices" are the logical next step. Theres nothing wrong with following your new simplicity path.
And don't worry, the 14% drop in subs really didnt come from the so called "casuals". Theres not a player worth talking about, that i personnally know, who still plays WoW.
I told myself that I'd resub if they fixed the mess that is the Cata talent tree.
This is not a fix.
Absolutely agree with you on this. This is definitely not a fix. Now mages will be even more OP in pvp and they still haven't fixed the major issues with Hunters to this day. Can we way Class Favoritism. Just another reason why Ghostcrawler needs to go. Anyone who believes that harry potter wand waving does more damage then bullets or arrows needs to talk to a victim of a shooting.
I really really really hope this talent horror never enters production. MORE points are needed, not less! Already that cata introduced regarding talents is total mess. I prefer getting every single level 1 point which I will eventually put into 15/15 of something! Fun with leveling is getting every level some cookie.
Honestly though, really, how fun is the current talent system, or the talent system from before?
During every single incarnation of WoW, there hasn't been much of a choice in what talents you can select. You followed a path of min/max because it was mathematically proven to be the best choices time and time again. At least in this system, there is some type of choice to be made. You'll still get your cookies as you level, in the form of skills/spells. Talents are there to round out your style of play.
Besides, anyone making actual decisions based upon this first pass of talents we've seen for the classes is a bit silly. Blizzard even stated at Blizzcon that the talent trees will most likely change. These are ideas and examples, nothing is set in stone atm.
Khm... ever played up to wotlk? You could go in any tree (with many illogical choices, but all in all ok) since start .... now one must fill very deeply into single tree. What they prospect will be even worse.
Yeah this is still a simpified, holding the hand talent path. Lich King's was the best I liked being able to choose where I wanted points to go and really build on a path (I liked picking corpse explosion sometimes for fun).
Cata made it simple so you didn't have the as much of a choice to where your points would go and not make you diverse at times from others.
So explain to me how there was any choice before? The first thing people do when they make a character is head to elitistjerks.com and see where they should put everything..... The min/maxers are the minority. The casual, like me, are the majority and we like to have a choice of talents and don't care if it takes a little dps away. If you don't think the game is catering to guys like me, causal gamers and not the min/maxers, you're insane. I personally can't wait til most of the number crunchers split. Will make my game even more enjoyable...
So you think "casuals" like you actually know that elitistjerks.com even exist? Sorry but most "casuals" don't use forums and websites to max out their stats and builds. If you and the majority like to have choices and don't care if it takes a little dps away, why are you even using cookie-cutter builds and why will you be using elitistjerks any less, in a year, then now? Those new "choices" are illusions plain and simple. Theres still a best build for pvp/pve and stupid builds for "casuals" like you who dont care about their dps but still use elitistjerks for their builds (im still confused about that part). Pure dps like mage or rogue have it easy with situationnal choices, hybrids like pally and druids clearly have a single right choice depending on their role.
They completely destroyed any versatility in talent trees with cata by shrunking the trees and forcing you to use a whole tree before going into another one, and those new "choices" are the logical next step. Theres nothing wrong with following your new simplicity path.
And don't worry, the 14% drop in subs really didnt come from the so called "casuals". Theres not a player worth talking about, that i personnally know, who still plays WoW.
Well, this should be quick and easy... Your whole post is assuming I use elitestjerks, which I don't. I don't let a bunch of number crunching college kids determine how I play the game. I play the game the way I want, with a guild of other casual gamers who don't fuck with you about item level and build. I bring up that site, cause all the min/makers use it. Like i said, the more the hardcore leave, the more ill like the game.
Comments
The big thing people have to realize is that the talents and abilties they showcased for 2.0 at Blizzcon were a rough build. I'm sure as we move closer and closer to MoP's release they'll add/remove/change various talents and abilties while staying true to their goal of giving players more choice.
If people want to continue ragging on Blizzard for how WoW is evolving that's their choice but it irritates me to no end when people just assume that even though MoP was announced not a few weeks ago that the features it will bring are already set in stone.
I'm personally also very excited for MoP and I eagerly await my chance to participate in the beta (I signed on for the annual pass).
Pretty much what Praetalus said, no idea why people fail to see that. Up until now a fire mage for example had only 1-2 cookie cutter builds viable I assume. With this amazing talent system the cookie cutter builds are gone, instead you are presented with fewer but IMPORTANT choices to do as you please. This is a win in my book and about time Blizzard did it. I hope the games I will decide to play and use a talent system catch up with this.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
See you all in SWTOR or GW2 -laughs-
Being upset about the talent 2.0 system means you are probably uninformed on the subject, I see a lot of you who just focus on the number "6" and not the fact that the number of talent choices you have now is "1".
YES ladies and gentlemen you now have 5 more choices!
Somehow thats a bad thing?
(In other words, talents as they are now are so cookie cutter there are no "real" game changing choices for specs, you pick the "optimal" one and go with it. This provides REAL choices, meaning 5 more choices than we have now.)
So please, focus on the details, don't just bindly reply with "lol 6 talents? WTF blizz" It makes us all sad panda.
Path of the titans was never in the game, they're adding choices not taking them away, current talents do not provide options or customization.
Please consider the fact that 1 cookie cutter talent tree build is not better than 3 choices per 6 rows of talents. That is FAR more choice.
Also the guild leveling system is in the game, so unless you mean you wish it didn't make it to live.. then I'd understand, but that directly contradicts your ending statement.
I am not forking over more money to have to re-earn level 70 talents that are pushed to level 90 (Vendetta, shadow dance, kspree). I aleady forked over money for Cata for Combat Readiness and now it is being taken away and is a talent choice instead?
Six real choices? I suppose, but the choice is somewhat incongruous. Like the polymorph tier, would the stun help in a dungeon setting? Probably not. Would the decreased healing on the target help in a dungeon setting? Probably, but I'm not seeing that make or break anything. Would polymorphing two targets help in a dungeon setting? Absolutely, it might even be a game changer in a really tough dungeon in the next xpax if the group desperately needs CC.
That isn't much of a choice.
The alpha title of this article was "Inconsequential Choices" for just that reason, at least concerning a bunch of the mage talent choices.
Sorry to all those who try to "glorify" those new talent choices. But where you see 3 choices, i only see a useless choice, a pvp choice and a pve choice. Any min/maxer out there will read these and instantly see the right choice for the right situation.
Maybe for pvp you can try to take another talent depending on your arena composition, but otherwise i don't see any reason to not be taking the best talent.
Those new talent trees are by far the worst changes made in MoP.
This isn't really a "talent" system. It's like the player choice of the color of his spells.
So explain to me how there was any choice before? The first thing people do when they make a character is head to elitistjerks.com and see where they should put everything. The tress are filled now with useless horseshit filler. You don't have a choice now, cause if you're not built correctly, no one will take you for anything. And if you're frost, you have IB, Fire, Blazing Speed, etc. At least now you can pick the spec you want and not miss out on some really awesome talents from a spec to which you don't belong. The min/maxers are the minority. The casual, like me, are the majority and we like to have a choice of talents and don't care if it takes a little dps away.
If you don't think the game is catering to guys like me, causal gamers and not the min/maxers, you're insane. I personally can't wait til most of the number crunchers split. Will make my game even more enjoyable...lol
Games never aim to please the hardcore. You know why? They're not where the money is.. I am. The casual gamer takes longer to complete the content and will more then likely keep their subsription longer then a hardcore gamer that burns through everything in a week or two and spends all day bitching about how there's no end game. You can't make a game to please people who sit around playing games for 6-8 hours a day. If you don't agree.. just look at how things are going.. It's a good time to be a casual gamer IMO, and WoW is the perfect example.
I agree this is not a Fix, I quit World OF Warcraft because of their mess in ruining the original game with their expansions. I bought all the collectors of wow up to Lich king and said forget it enough wasting my money to pay for Blizzard a game that now fails.
They story changes, and story line obviously made no sense at all no realism at all period, Blood Elves, The Alien Race magically is put into the game with no story at all, and the Lich king they could have made the game better and more detailed.
On top of this game attunement is just plain stupid if you want to run a dungeon you should not be reuqired to attune unless it is going to give you a Magicial godly weapon or something that u have to use to enter another dungeons magical barrier for example otherwise there is no point.
The Talents, Blizzard ruined mages for me when they drop one nerf after another on mages, first it was can't use Arcane Power + POM and Pyro anymore, and totally gave warlocks and priest the upper hands in the game, this was not a fix at all period, and this was because kids cried OMG Over Powered which it really wasn't in a BG even if it did crit it was maybe a 1 hit kill if you were lucky unless the other person had very sucky gear on.
Also Wow is based around Gear, no Customizations like Rift, or any other game so u can make your armor look like anything you want totally blows now, and this new Talent Tree is the worst I have ever seen, I refuse to even think about going back to wow.
Hey I might not like NC Soft, but at least Lineage 2 is going free 2 play, this will compete with other games on the market that are knock off versions of their game to begin with, and may cause some of them to go out of business, wow might just loose a lot more customers, and DCUO took over both Champions Online & COH for me. Oh and if Runes OF Magic offers optional subscripton packages/perks and improves their game crashes/memory leaks they could possibly take down wow now from all the wow fans that are no longer happy with wow
Bottom Line is do not buy, or play wow it is not worthit, and no longer a good game it once was. I was a player of wow too for at least 16 hours a day + with quite a few high/mid level toons and I can say from ym experienec it isn't worth playing now when they base everything around nothing but gear, wasting your Real Life, and not giving any perks or trade up armor and such and just making rapid changes to the Talent Tree like this, maybe they should just get rid of talent's all together, and make it runes or something that gives bonus or something since they made it this bad.
If you try to think more about this new talents you will see how good they are. That was best way to do it. But 6 years is 6 years and now is time for change. It was best gaming time in my life and i highly recommend wow to any new generation of players.Who knows, one month sub is not to much just to see how it works
Force here i come! Bye, bye to beautiful world of Azeroth, it was epic expirience and it will stay forever in my heart
I really really really hope this talent horror never enters production. MORE points are needed, not less! Already that cata introduced regarding talents is total mess. I prefer getting every single level 1 point which I will eventually put into 15/15 of something! Fun with leveling is getting every level some cookie.
Honestly though, really, how fun is the current talent system, or the talent system from before?
During every single incarnation of WoW, there hasn't been much of a choice in what talents you can select. You followed a path of min/max because it was mathematically proven to be the best choices time and time again. At least in this system, there is some type of choice to be made. You'll still get your cookies as you level, in the form of skills/spells. Talents are there to round out your style of play.
Besides, anyone making actual decisions based upon this first pass of talents we've seen for the classes is a bit silly. Blizzard even stated at Blizzcon that the talent trees will most likely change. These are ideas and examples, nothing is set in stone atm.
So you think "casuals" like you actually know that elitistjerks.com even exist? Sorry but most "casuals" don't use forums and websites to max out their stats and builds. If you and the majority like to have choices and don't care if it takes a little dps away, why are you even using cookie-cutter builds and why will you be using elitistjerks any less, in a year, then now? Those new "choices" are illusions plain and simple. Theres still a best build for pvp/pve and stupid builds for "casuals" like you who dont care about their dps but still use elitistjerks for their builds (im still confused about that part). Pure dps like mage or rogue have it easy with situationnal choices, hybrids like pally and druids clearly have a single right choice depending on their role.
They completely destroyed any versatility in talent trees with cata by shrunking the trees and forcing you to use a whole tree before going into another one, and those new "choices" are the logical next step. Theres nothing wrong with following your new simplicity path.
And don't worry, the 14% drop in subs really didnt come from the so called "casuals". Theres not a player worth talking about, that i personnally know, who still plays WoW.
Absolutely agree with you on this. This is definitely not a fix. Now mages will be even more OP in pvp and they still haven't fixed the major issues with Hunters to this day. Can we way Class Favoritism. Just another reason why Ghostcrawler needs to go. Anyone who believes that harry potter wand waving does more damage then bullets or arrows needs to talk to a victim of a shooting.
Khm... ever played up to wotlk? You could go in any tree (with many illogical choices, but all in all ok) since start .... now one must fill very deeply into single tree. What they prospect will be even worse.
Yeah this is still a simpified, holding the hand talent path. Lich King's was the best I liked being able to choose where I wanted points to go and really build on a path (I liked picking corpse explosion sometimes for fun).
Cata made it simple so you didn't have the as much of a choice to where your points would go and not make you diverse at times from others.
Why are they still calling it 'tree' when it's a Lilly Pad?
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
So you think "casuals" like you actually know that elitistjerks.com even exist? Sorry but most "casuals" don't use forums and websites to max out their stats and builds. If you and the majority like to have choices and don't care if it takes a little dps away, why are you even using cookie-cutter builds and why will you be using elitistjerks any less, in a year, then now? Those new "choices" are illusions plain and simple. Theres still a best build for pvp/pve and stupid builds for "casuals" like you who dont care about their dps but still use elitistjerks for their builds (im still confused about that part). Pure dps like mage or rogue have it easy with situationnal choices, hybrids like pally and druids clearly have a single right choice depending on their role.
They completely destroyed any versatility in talent trees with cata by shrunking the trees and forcing you to use a whole tree before going into another one, and those new "choices" are the logical next step. Theres nothing wrong with following your new simplicity path.
And don't worry, the 14% drop in subs really didnt come from the so called "casuals". Theres not a player worth talking about, that i personnally know, who still plays WoW.
Well, this should be quick and easy... Your whole post is assuming I use elitestjerks, which I don't. I don't let a bunch of number crunching college kids determine how I play the game. I play the game the way I want, with a guild of other casual gamers who don't fuck with you about item level and build. I bring up that site, cause all the min/makers use it. Like i said, the more the hardcore leave, the more ill like the game.