Fairly good review i agree with many points. as a roleplayer who loves having options not attached to linear driven mechanics. i see TOR will have none at this point from your review. I wont qoute you and create a super mega back and forth quote thread. but very interesting.
I will be able to form a small opinon in the up coming beta weekend. total biscuts video of him going through the charcater creation has left me with a worried feeling. It's a 200 million dollar AAA MMO i'm very curious as to where they spent the bulk of that money in development.
I will still hold out on my opinon since it would only be for me and not something i would share as many have so far.
You are a real cartoon character, aren't you? I'm still waiting for you to address the problem you seem to have with logical falacy and straw man arguments in your so-called "logical" posts. There seems to be some dissonance in your online persona and reality.
"Most people of intelligence" do not care if someone on a gaming web forum uses the word 'review" or "my opinion" to decribe his posts. People of intelligence who have spent multiple years on this forum (and the internet as a whole) know very well that little more than opinion is posted here, especially when the word "review" is employed as a description. Also, the word "review" seems to have evolved in popular culture, since just about everything labeled a review, is made of opinion these days. You may want to adjust your personal definition of the word to account for this so you don't have to have multi-page arguments about it. It seems the word is open to interpretation for most humans.
The only thing I "shill" for, is my own opinion. I doubt very seriously if you would be any happier if the OP used the term 'Op Ed" rather than "Review" to descripe his post. By the way, someone who claims genius status like you do may want to go ahead and make note that "rather then" is incorrect.
Going grammar Nazi on me now?
Attacking the poster not the post, wonderful tactic.
At the end of the day, I don't like seeing biased rants passed off as "reviews" because I know people will read them and use them to help formulate their own opinion because they haven't played said game and are thus unable to form their own impressions.
This goes both ways, by the way, in terms of overly positive and overly negative op-eds.
I'm much more of a "take it with a grain of salt, form your own opinion based on experience not word of mouth" kind of guy.
But I also give added value to people whose opinons are backed with rational arguments, a clear sign of perspective beyond their own viewpoints, and at least a "give it my best" attempt at eliminating bias.
The OP failed to do any of these things, so my ORIGINAL post in this thread still stands -
Biased quote "review" is biased. Dismiss and move along...
and btw according to date and post count I've been on this site a lot longer then you sir
You baited me with your "I'm a genius" content. I couldn't help myself. I don't recall claiming to be here longer THAN you. I was acknowledging that you should know full well how people write personal reviews around here since we both have been here so long. I don't think that is the issue though.
I believe you don't like negative reviews of whatever game you have fallen in love with at the time. It seems to me that you are now saying your whole problem with the OP is that he used the word "review" as a label for his opinion post. I don't believe that for one moment.
However, we can agree to disagree now, and just go on about our lives. I don't suppose this is going to be resolved, so why bother?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I really don't care about the powergamers. Those people need to stick with single player games. Also, you shouldn't need an incentive for players to socialize/build a community. Those that actually care about such things will do it.
Attacking the poster not the post, wonderful tactic.
At the end of the day, I don't like seeing biased rants passed off as "reviews" because I know people will read them and use them to help formulate their own opinion because they haven't played said game and are thus unable to form their own impressions.
This goes both ways, by the way, in terms of overly positive and overly negative op-eds.
I'm much more of a "take it with a grain of salt, form your own opinion based on experience not word of mouth" kind of guy.
But I also give added value to people whose opinons are backed with rational arguments, a clear sign of perspective beyond their own viewpoints, and at least a "give it my best" attempt at eliminating bias.
The OP failed to do any of these things, so my ORIGINAL post in this thread still stands -
Biased quote "review" is biased. Dismiss and move along...
and btw according to date and post count I've been on this site a lot longer then you sir
and in terms of my logic.. well, it's like science and magic - science always sounds like magic until you understand it
That's why I'm Bad Spock, not Spock, didn't you see the goatee?
Are you saying that people should not express their opinions? or only the one's that don't coincide with your views!
Viewpoints are given only by the players perspective, how can it be otherwise?
I wonder why you are giving so much weight to a simple viewpoint posted on a forum site. People will decide for themselves whether Tor is worth playing or not.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Actually Deacon is, was, one of the biggest fans of this gmae when it first was announced. I remember howexcited he was when he heardit was being made. His write up was really accurate on he whole of the game for the most part. To just blow off his commentary like he doesn't know what he is talking about is wrong. He is an avid MMORPG gamer with lots of experience beta testing and playing these games. I for one appreciate the time and effort he took to write this up. Thanks Deacon!
Yes thanks Deacon. Your review hits spot on with what I expected. Excellent read and the floundering rebuttals were quite entertaining as well.
[Mod Edit]
Anywho, thanks for the review, Deacon. I did agree with most of your points with the exception of combat and story/VO. Personally, I do not believe that this game moves mmo combat forward no matter how slight. I found it very dull and uninspired. Considering the IP (with lightsabers and the force and all), BW could have put much more into this aspect of their game. As for the story, I was surprised how much I enjoyed the experience. It could be that I was rather easily impressed due to how shitty most story elements are within the genre, but nonetheless, there it is. Even though you rated this part of the game a 9, from your comments it would seem I appreciated this aspect quite a bit more than yourself.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Absolutely fantastic review. I completely agree with you on every point.
I wish they included public quests or dynamic events in their game because i feel like the game doesn't do enough to encourage community or playing together other than the forced grouping for heroics/flashpoints.
In my line of work Deacon (I know spelled different) means clean up the crap. I have been in the last two betas and disagree with almost all of his post.
Getting Started? How do you even grade this well he gave it a 10 so guess that’s good
Server selection? Multiple choices
Character Creation? I will agree it is a bit lacking
Quests ? I strongly disagree here, you get your quests and while you’re out doing your main quest you get the optional kill 25 of these and so on. It’s not like a normal MMO where all your quests are go get 25 of X and have to kill 100 Y to get X. It’s a very nice change.
Combat? Well he must not have run the heroic areas on each planet or any Flashpoints. I found the combat to be very engaging and fun.
Itemization? I am confused about this one. Why should you be handed something right off the bat? I don’t remember any MMO that just gave you the best gear you can have by killing your 1st mob. I think what they did with the commendation is great. Most quests give you an option to choose a piece of gear or token to exchange for a piece of gear you want, you can also save the commendation and trade them in for new ones at your next planet.
Inventory? Can’t say much here didn’t really get into upgrading it.
Movement? Have you played an MMO ever? Most MMO's don’t give you a mount, away to move fast until 20's. You get a sprint at level 15 which is nice and the ability to get a speeder at 20 which I didn’t have an issue with at all.
Zones? If he means the worlds again not sure what game he played. The worlds are decent size at first but get larger as you go. They could be a little more open I agree with that. But to say there is no exploration is far from the truth.
Graphics? He must be running a Sub-Par machine. The other MMO's I have played that have better more detailed worlds would be LOTRO and Age of Conan.
Story/line actually should be part of the quests because that is what they are, and not voice overs.
The Map? Again I find the transparent map easy to use and love the fact I can have the map open while I try and find where I am going. I think it’s a great feature.
Guild Options? Again never got into this topic
Crafting? I am not sure how someone who has never like crafting can even grade it. I hate basketball and if I ever watched and it was the best game played I would still give it a 5. I found the compion option a great add. They have a lot of different professions which gives you multiple options to try new things.
Space? I do agree with this, it is just a mini-game but can be fun for a little change.
Housing? For me to have the option to have a ship/house this early on gives it more a 5. At launch Star Trek you couldn’t even see inside your ship, LOTRO which I feel has the best housing didn’t come out with housing until a later expansion.
Summary- The OP must be basing his experienced review on a game he played 5 months ago. The game I played when you compare it to other MMO's at their Beta stage (it’s only fair to compare apples to apples) and give it a 6.5 is so far from the truth.
We have our self-proclaimed "geniuses" with longwinded emotional posts.
Not self proclaimed - proven and documented.
Emotional?
You've lost me... not really sure how you can read my emotions over text?
Some kind of internet mind-meld?
Longwinded?
Please, it takes a lot of time to say things that are worth saying. Kind of like Entish.
I'm offended at your suggestion I'm offended. Does that mean I was always offended but didn't become offended to being offended until I was acused of being offended by an offended person?
Hmm that must be a dissapointing for you Deacon i know what a fan and advocate for this game you were way back when it was the tiniest of rumors...
But your review is right on... altho many people will still need to step in the dogpie andf get it all over there shoes istead of listening to others.....
I also really wanted this game to be the next big game for me ..but im gonna pass. after testing....big letdown
Absolutely fantastic review. I completely agree with you on every point.
I wish they included public quests or dynamic events in their game because i feel like the game doesn't do enough to encourage community or playing together other than the forced grouping for heroics/flashpoints.
You left out social points, and a number of other non-forced social aspects of the game. Also encourage and force are subjective to your own experience. A public quest could also be construed as forced, but we know it is not the case.
You group because you have to in any game where your friends are not online, and you just have to complete that quest. And you group because you want to in any game as well. The whole issue of having to be forced or nudged lies with the users preferences, and as a result, the nudging or forcing feature is programmed in to allieviate this problem.
I would say 5/10 is the best score for a feature considered standard affair.
Neither above or below the current trend. Just average.
Seems like a silly nonsense way of grading to me, but to each their own way of individual rating that does it for them
When you'd grate games like that consistently, no MW sequel would come above a 6, I doubt most shooters or even SC2 would.
It is a silly nonsense way of grading, but the only way detractors have of making this game look bad is by focusing on what the game isn't rather than what it actually is.
This review docked the game far more points for what it didn't have rather than how what it did have was implemented.
Originally posted by Lashley Good review, quite a low score too. Expect people to come in waging war.
Meh, it's a Beta score.
No one expects a 10/10 in a beta review, lol.
6.5 isn't a bad benchmark to start a month out before all builds are even done and optimization is complete.
Considering that most mmos improve over time as they stay on the market, 6.5 is fine especially if the important things people expect are there.
I think if someone gave it high scores in lore/story (8-9), PvP (8-9), world size (8-9) and immersion (8-9) it outweighs equally low scores they would give it of lightsaber color choices(3-4), "I only have four body types to choose from!" (3-4), "I can't invite my friend on the ship!" (3-4), and "the game looks too cartoony" (3-4).
It's all about perspective really, which is why I never put much stock in "number total" reviews. The number total never shows the properly weighted things people care about but instead just lump all the reviewed features as one in the same, which they certainly aren't.
We have our self-proclaimed "geniuses" with longwinded emotional posts.
Not self proclaimed - proven and documented. Yeah, that's the thing about most geniuses: they rarely go on about how smart they are. There really is no logic behind bragging about something like that when you already know the truth. When you're that intelligent, broadcasting should really be beneath you.
Emotional? Shocking, I know.
You've lost me... not really sure how you can read my emotions over text? With the majority of posters, no, it's usually impossible to read into any real emotion from text. However, with a select few...not too tough. Some folks wear it on their sleeve.Consider yourself unlost, bud.
Some kind of internet mind-meld?
Longwinded?
Please, it takes a lot of time to say things that are worth saying. Kind of like Entish. While not on the level of genius, this little tidbit was both mildly clever and humorous.
I'm offended at your suggestion I'm offended. Does that mean I was always offended but didn't become offended to being offended until I was acused of being offended by an offended person? I guess one would have to be a genius to decipher this riddle. I'll leave it with you.
Wait, did we just get inceptioned?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I really don't care about the powergamers. Those people need to stick with single player games. Also, you shouldn't need an incentive for players to socialize/build a community. Those that actually care about such things will do it.
Actually, the game's design can go a long way to encouraging players to socialize and build communities, more so than if left to themselves. But they don't build MMO's like this anymore.
Humans generally only cooperate when it benefits them directly to do so, otherwise they tend to be pretty solitary and self serving creatures.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would say 5/10 is the best score for a feature considered standard affair.
Neither above or below the current trend. Just average.
Seems like a silly nonsense way of grading to me, but to each their own way of individual rating that does it for them
When you'd grate games like that consistently, no MW sequel would come above a 6, I doubt most shooters or even SC2 would.
It is a silly nonsense way of grading, but the only way detractors have of making this game look bad is by focusing on what the game isn't rather than what it actually is.
This review docked the game far more points for what it didn't have rather than how what it did have was implemented.
Ive noticed that most ot the current stream of negative reviews follow this same logic. Rather interesting.
I would like to ask what OP means when he says there is very less incentive to forrm communities in SWTOR? as far as i see incentive is PVP (both open and instanced), Flashpoints, Heroics and other group oriented PVE content.
Every guild is allowed to have 3 ally guilds so tools are there to form communities. What other incentive is needed to play together?
Could you please answer my question? my guild already has ally guilds all ready and set for launch days and not even once we thought that we lack incentives to form a strong community among ourselves and that is how we felt during beta too.
Now there’s a difference between grouping and creating a community. Right now, grouping only actually needs to be done for Flashpoints, some Heroic missions (some 2+ heroics can actually be solo’d..hehe, ‘Solo’d’, get it?).
The guild support is pretty bare minimum right now. I hope to see awesome guild locations in the future (BioWare has talked about Guild Capital Ships… awesome? Yes.) and maybe some player cities way later – I know it’s not SWG, but people really LOVE forging their own environment and become very attached to content like this which keeps them playing for the long run, growing a strong community etc.
Veterans of TBC will tell you. Finding groups for heroics DOES build communities. Its a slow process over time but as associations form they grow and become bigger and bigger. Your friends list gets fuller and fuller and you generally start to know more and more people. This process repeats itself over and over again and communities form.
Ever since DeaconX began to realize TOR wasn't going to be anything like SWG, he's been acting like someone peed in his cheerios.
That kinda explains the ridiculous review.
That's all I've been trying to say.
It's like, find a UO vet who hated the Trammel/Felucca split, who when moved on to something like AC Darktide or whatever and then moved on to SWG, quit after NGE/CU, then moved on and has been playing EVE ever since in 0.0 space....
Then put a copy of WoW:Cataclysm in front of them and tell them to write a "review."
What you get?
99% opinion piece. Which, of course, that person would be entitled to, but to pass it off as a review and try and sell it to people as being ANYTHING but their own subjective venting and ravings?
Dishonest, immoral and purposeful spread of misinformation.
Kind of like Fox news!
Once Again: A REVIEW IS AN OPINION. It is 100% opinion based on that person's experience and POV. Anyone with half a brain should know to take someone's bias into account when they read a review for anything. If you try to take a review as fact, then you don't understand what a review is. If false facts are used in a review, feel free to correct them, but you cannot correct someone's opinion. They have do to that on thier own.
A report, as in a "consumer report" is expected to be more based on fact, but a review is always opinion-based. Reviews are subjective. The fact that he is biased by his love of sandbox games doesn't make his review any less valid, but should be taken into account. I've been reading reviews about the new Galaxy Nexus phone for weeks now, and they range from 'Hate it" to "It's my Jesus". I read many different reviews, then come to a conclusion that will help me decide to buy it. Spock, where is your in-depth review? I would truly enjoy reading it, because I am reading them all around this site.
You are incorrect. A review lists what a game has or does not have to offer. This can be done in as a stand alone list or it can be done in comparison to what is considered a normal or average MMO list of features.. It does not rate them nor is it suppose to reflect the likes or dislikes of the reviewer. If you want to go that route, then you write up an opinoin piece, not a review.
You people are simply wrong. Someone point me to a review on this website, written by anyone, that reads like a list of facts. One without subjective opinion in it. I look forward to your many links.
What you are talking about is a list of facts, not a review. I have yet to see a review that reads like this.
Obviously not from this site, but a far better review (not because it's a positive review) as it not only states his background but provided a lot more details even though it's still his opinion.
I should add it's more about relevant points about the game rather then maps and character sheets.
I think Beta reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.. I mean, if you had to re-grind the same early quests over multiple times due to character wipes, and didn't have access to all of the end-game content, you'd rate it lower too... plus dealing with many bugs that no longer exist now.
Everyone with beta access now can see in the launcher patch notes from just last week that a ton of stuff wasn't included in the game until just recently.
Obviously not from this site, but a far better review (not because it's a positive review) as it not only states his background but provided a lot more details even though it's still his opinion.
I should add it's more about relevant points about the game rather then maps and character sheets.
Ever since DeaconX began to realize TOR wasn't going to be anything like SWG, he's been acting like someone peed in his cheerios.
That kinda explains the ridiculous review.
That's all I've been trying to say.
It's like, find a UO vet who hated the Trammel/Felucca split, who when moved on to something like AC Darktide or whatever and then moved on to SWG, quit after NGE/CU, then moved on and has been playing EVE ever since in 0.0 space....
Then put a copy of WoW:Cataclysm in front of them and tell them to write a "review."
What you get?
99% opinion piece. Which, of course, that person would be entitled to, but to pass it off as a review and try and sell it to people as being ANYTHING but their own subjective venting and ravings?
Dishonest, immoral and purposeful spread of misinformation.
Kind of like Fox news!
Once Again: A REVIEW IS AN OPINION. It is 100% opinion based on that person's experience and POV. Anyone with half a brain should know to take someone's bias into account when they read a review for anything. If you try to take a review as fact, then you don't understand what a review is. If false facts are used in a review, feel free to correct them, but you cannot correct someone's opinion. They have do to that on thier own.
A report, as in a "consumer report" is expected to be more based on fact, but a review is always opinion-based. Reviews are subjective. The fact that he is biased by his love of sandbox games doesn't make his review any less valid, but should be taken into account. I've been reading reviews about the new Galaxy Nexus phone for weeks now, and they range from 'Hate it" to "It's my Jesus". I read many different reviews, then come to a conclusion that will help me decide to buy it. Spock, where is your in-depth review? I would truly enjoy reading it, because I am reading them all around this site.
You are incorrect. A review lists what a game has or does not have to offer. This can be done in as a stand alone list or it can be done in comparison to what is considered a normal or average MMO list of features.. It does not rate them nor is it suppose to reflect the likes or dislikes of the reviewer. If you want to go that route, then you write up an opinoin piece, not a review.
You people are simply wrong. Someone point me to a review on this website, written by anyone, that reads like a list of facts. One without subjective opinion in it. I look forward to your many links.
What you are talking about is a list of facts, not a review. I have yet to see a review that reads like this.
Obviously not from this site, but a far better review (not because it's a positive review) as it not only states his background but provided a lot more details even though it's still his opinion.
I should add it's more about relevant points about the game rather then maps and character sheets.
Trollbanes review is excellent. It reviews the game on its features (not the could bes or maybes) and is filled with critical thinking. He is definetly a "fan boi" but hes not blind or ignorant. He critiques the game and finds that he loves it.
A nicely written and detailed review...that makes me sad. It seems to mesh with my impressions of the game from pure heresay-I might play and enjoy for a month, at most two, but then I'll move on, still looking for a gameworld I can become more immersed in.
I don't understand why they've cut corners on character and ship interior customization. But maybe we're just not the gamers they're looking for.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
A nicely written and detailed review...that makes me sad. It seems to mesh with my impressions of the game from pure heresay-I might play and enjoy for a month, at most two, but then I'll move on, still looking for a gameworld I can become more immersed in.
I don't understand why they've cut corners on character and ship interior customization. But maybe we're just not the gamers they're looking for.
The interior ship customization is something that will come in future updates. As it stands now it's still better than most of the new release AAA MMOs because you still get storage and a crafting station. Most mmos these days don't launch with any sort of housing feature.
As for you being sad over one person's opinion, well hopefully you got a beta invite for this weekend and can check the game out for yourself. I could point out a lot of things in the OP that I absolutely disagree with, but that would just be my opinion as well.
Give the game a shot and then you can find out of if it's something you might like or not. A lot of people have been pleasantly surprised wtih it thus far. The game is very good.
Comments
Fairly good review i agree with many points. as a roleplayer who loves having options not attached to linear driven mechanics. i see TOR will have none at this point from your review. I wont qoute you and create a super mega back and forth quote thread. but very interesting.
I will be able to form a small opinon in the up coming beta weekend. total biscuts video of him going through the charcater creation has left me with a worried feeling. It's a 200 million dollar AAA MMO i'm very curious as to where they spent the bulk of that money in development.
I will still hold out on my opinon since it would only be for me and not something i would share as many have so far.
You baited me with your "I'm a genius" content. I couldn't help myself. I don't recall claiming to be here longer THAN you. I was acknowledging that you should know full well how people write personal reviews around here since we both have been here so long. I don't think that is the issue though.
I believe you don't like negative reviews of whatever game you have fallen in love with at the time. It seems to me that you are now saying your whole problem with the OP is that he used the word "review" as a label for his opinion post. I don't believe that for one moment.
However, we can agree to disagree now, and just go on about our lives. I don't suppose this is going to be resolved, so why bother?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Are you saying that people should not express their opinions? or only the one's that don't coincide with your views!
Viewpoints are given only by the players perspective, how can it be otherwise?
I wonder why you are giving so much weight to a simple viewpoint posted on a forum site. People will decide for themselves whether Tor is worth playing or not.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
[Mod Edit]
Anywho, thanks for the review, Deacon. I did agree with most of your points with the exception of combat and story/VO. Personally, I do not believe that this game moves mmo combat forward no matter how slight. I found it very dull and uninspired. Considering the IP (with lightsabers and the force and all), BW could have put much more into this aspect of their game. As for the story, I was surprised how much I enjoyed the experience. It could be that I was rather easily impressed due to how shitty most story elements are within the genre, but nonetheless, there it is. Even though you rated this part of the game a 9, from your comments it would seem I appreciated this aspect quite a bit more than yourself.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Absolutely fantastic review. I completely agree with you on every point.
I wish they included public quests or dynamic events in their game because i feel like the game doesn't do enough to encourage community or playing together other than the forced grouping for heroics/flashpoints.
In my line of work Deacon (I know spelled different) means clean up the crap. I have been in the last two betas and disagree with almost all of his post.
Getting Started? How do you even grade this well he gave it a 10 so guess that’s good
Server selection? Multiple choices
Character Creation? I will agree it is a bit lacking
Quests ? I strongly disagree here, you get your quests and while you’re out doing your main quest you get the optional kill 25 of these and so on. It’s not like a normal MMO where all your quests are go get 25 of X and have to kill 100 Y to get X. It’s a very nice change.
Combat? Well he must not have run the heroic areas on each planet or any Flashpoints. I found the combat to be very engaging and fun.
Itemization? I am confused about this one. Why should you be handed something right off the bat? I don’t remember any MMO that just gave you the best gear you can have by killing your 1st mob. I think what they did with the commendation is great. Most quests give you an option to choose a piece of gear or token to exchange for a piece of gear you want, you can also save the commendation and trade them in for new ones at your next planet.
Inventory? Can’t say much here didn’t really get into upgrading it.
Movement? Have you played an MMO ever? Most MMO's don’t give you a mount, away to move fast until 20's. You get a sprint at level 15 which is nice and the ability to get a speeder at 20 which I didn’t have an issue with at all.
Zones? If he means the worlds again not sure what game he played. The worlds are decent size at first but get larger as you go. They could be a little more open I agree with that. But to say there is no exploration is far from the truth.
Graphics? He must be running a Sub-Par machine. The other MMO's I have played that have better more detailed worlds would be LOTRO and Age of Conan.
Story/line actually should be part of the quests because that is what they are, and not voice overs.
The Map? Again I find the transparent map easy to use and love the fact I can have the map open while I try and find where I am going. I think it’s a great feature.
Guild Options? Again never got into this topic
Crafting? I am not sure how someone who has never like crafting can even grade it. I hate basketball and if I ever watched and it was the best game played I would still give it a 5. I found the compion option a great add. They have a lot of different professions which gives you multiple options to try new things.
Space? I do agree with this, it is just a mini-game but can be fun for a little change.
Housing? For me to have the option to have a ship/house this early on gives it more a 5. At launch Star Trek you couldn’t even see inside your ship, LOTRO which I feel has the best housing didn’t come out with housing until a later expansion.
Summary- The OP must be basing his experienced review on a game he played 5 months ago. The game I played when you compare it to other MMO's at their Beta stage (it’s only fair to compare apples to apples) and give it a 6.5 is so far from the truth.
Not self proclaimed - proven and documented.
Emotional?
You've lost me... not really sure how you can read my emotions over text?
Some kind of internet mind-meld?
Longwinded?
Please, it takes a lot of time to say things that are worth saying. Kind of like Entish.
I'm offended at your suggestion I'm offended. Does that mean I was always offended but didn't become offended to being offended until I was acused of being offended by an offended person?
Wait, did we just get inceptioned?
Hmm that must be a dissapointing for you Deacon i know what a fan and advocate for this game you were way back when it was the tiniest of rumors...
But your review is right on... altho many people will still need to step in the dogpie andf get it all over there shoes istead of listening to others.....
I also really wanted this game to be the next big game for me ..but im gonna pass. after testing....big letdown
You left out social points, and a number of other non-forced social aspects of the game. Also encourage and force are subjective to your own experience. A public quest could also be construed as forced, but we know it is not the case.
You group because you have to in any game where your friends are not online, and you just have to complete that quest. And you group because you want to in any game as well. The whole issue of having to be forced or nudged lies with the users preferences, and as a result, the nudging or forcing feature is programmed in to allieviate this problem.
As a sequel to KOTOR, I would give this game a 10/10. As an MMO, 6.5/10 is pretty accurate.
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It is a silly nonsense way of grading, but the only way detractors have of making this game look bad is by focusing on what the game isn't rather than what it actually is.
This review docked the game far more points for what it didn't have rather than how what it did have was implemented.
No one expects a 10/10 in a beta review, lol.
6.5 isn't a bad benchmark to start a month out before all builds are even done and optimization is complete.
Considering that most mmos improve over time as they stay on the market, 6.5 is fine especially if the important things people expect are there.
I think if someone gave it high scores in lore/story (8-9), PvP (8-9), world size (8-9) and immersion (8-9) it outweighs equally low scores they would give it of lightsaber color choices(3-4), "I only have four body types to choose from!" (3-4), "I can't invite my friend on the ship!" (3-4), and "the game looks too cartoony" (3-4).
It's all about perspective really, which is why I never put much stock in "number total" reviews. The number total never shows the properly weighted things people care about but instead just lump all the reviewed features as one in the same, which they certainly aren't.
"TO MICHAEL!"
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Ahahah Badspock is such a comedian. Even though i might not agree with what he says but damn he is funny lol.
Actually, the game's design can go a long way to encouraging players to socialize and build communities, more so than if left to themselves. But they don't build MMO's like this anymore.
Humans generally only cooperate when it benefits them directly to do so, otherwise they tend to be pretty solitary and self serving creatures.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
good one
Ive noticed that most ot the current stream of negative reviews follow this same logic. Rather interesting.
Veterans of TBC will tell you. Finding groups for heroics DOES build communities. Its a slow process over time but as associations form they grow and become bigger and bigger. Your friends list gets fuller and fuller and you generally start to know more and more people. This process repeats itself over and over again and communities form.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1026628-Trollsbane-s-TOR-review
Obviously not from this site, but a far better review (not because it's a positive review) as it not only states his background but provided a lot more details even though it's still his opinion.
I should add it's more about relevant points about the game rather then maps and character sheets.
I think Beta reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.. I mean, if you had to re-grind the same early quests over multiple times due to character wipes, and didn't have access to all of the end-game content, you'd rate it lower too... plus dealing with many bugs that no longer exist now.
Everyone with beta access now can see in the launcher patch notes from just last week that a ton of stuff wasn't included in the game until just recently.
Thanks for the link .
Trollbanes review is excellent. It reviews the game on its features (not the could bes or maybes) and is filled with critical thinking. He is definetly a "fan boi" but hes not blind or ignorant. He critiques the game and finds that he loves it.
A nicely written and detailed review...that makes me sad. It seems to mesh with my impressions of the game from pure heresay-I might play and enjoy for a month, at most two, but then I'll move on, still looking for a gameworld I can become more immersed in.
I don't understand why they've cut corners on character and ship interior customization. But maybe we're just not the gamers they're looking for.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
The interior ship customization is something that will come in future updates. As it stands now it's still better than most of the new release AAA MMOs because you still get storage and a crafting station. Most mmos these days don't launch with any sort of housing feature.
As for you being sad over one person's opinion, well hopefully you got a beta invite for this weekend and can check the game out for yourself. I could point out a lot of things in the OP that I absolutely disagree with, but that would just be my opinion as well.
Give the game a shot and then you can find out of if it's something you might like or not. A lot of people have been pleasantly surprised wtih it thus far. The game is very good.