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Beta impressions and my biggest issue with SWTOR
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
Hey All,
So I finally got a chance to play SWTOR and I've pretty much enjoyed it so far. I've played Jedi Knight to the point where I got off the starter world and did a few things on Coruscant. It's fun, I might buy it, but I do have one large issue with the game that is keeping me from going forward with the purchase.
Specifically, SWTOR IMO is essentially a hybrid of an SPRPG like KOTOR and a themepark MMORPG like WoW. The problem is that these two concepts (SPRPG and MMORPG) seem to constantly trip over each other in gameplay. Resulting in something where the SPRPG portion and MMORPG portion of the game are both worse off because of each other.
For example, all of the quests I have received have a nice dialogue/story segment like an SPRPG, but the actual actions of the quest conform to the standard themepark "kill 10 rats" model. It's so cliche at this point that it's just uninteresting to me. I feel like if the game were an actual SPRPG the quests would be much more fun to do. SPRPGs generally are much better at providing more interesting quest objectives because they aren't constrained by a shared world.
Another example of this is how you see multitudes of other players walking around with your identical companion, killing the same boss that you did 2 minutes ago. It just makes the whole thing feel artificial...once again, an SPRPG would be much more immersive in this respect. And companions...you get to have a companion so the game can play more like an SPRPG, but you are limited to one. One of the great things about SPRPGs is watching the character development between your companions...this is crippled because fo the MMORPG side of this game.
And on the other side of the coin, the MMORPG portion of this game is constantly hampered by its SPRPG side as well. For example, you constantly see mysterious "red walls" that you can't enter because it's for a specific class quest that you can't participate on (unless you are with a player on the quest).
So in the end, I just have to wonder what the point of the game is. It strives to be both an MMORPG and an SPRPG, but I really think it would have been better just concentrating on one thing. Make an excellent SPRPG or make an excellent MMORPG. Trying to smash them together just causes too many problems.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Comments
Calling the story elements single player provides a very narrow view of the actual gameplay mechanics. The entire story, every cutscenes, ever conversation and every quest in the game is multiplayer. You should try the multiplayer conversations out before condemning them as single player. You are very mistaken in that regard I believe.
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You have some points there Creslin, I do hate seeing the red walls,, and the idea of being able to change your companions visual kits just isn't enough for me.
We've been asking for BioWare to allow us to change not just the visual appearance of our companions but also give them "nicknames" that show over their head so you can individualize them.... that would aid in immersion immensely.
As for bosses and things of that nature that respawn, thats mainly just what happens in an MMO.... can't really fix that too much without more sharding or instancing.
I've gotta say, that pretty much sums up my feelings as well. I know it's a running cliche, but it really does feel like a single player game that just happens to be on a MMO server. On top of that, the combat is quite boring in my opinion. I've tried smuggler and Jedi Knight and found the Knight to be the superior of the two. Understanding that their goal was to create a story driven game, it seems to me that they spent way too much time worrying about the voiceovers and cut scenes and forgot that they were actually making a game.
I agree,though I was expecting it..
Another thing that killed the 'MMO' feel for me,which is kind of like the red walls,is that I was running into a border area of the map.A 'restricted' area which would kill you over time if you didnt get back 'into bounds'.It really kills the exploration feel IMO,here you have a wide open,what looks like a unrestricted path that may lead you to another zone or something,but no,just a "you've gone to far! get back before you mysteriously die!" invisible boundary...
they could atleast used a mountain range as a border or something..
I played the game for about 10 hours during the beta as a trooper and I got sucked into the story. Every mission I did and the choices I made felt like I made a difference. Even though the world around me didn't change (since it's an MMO) I still had my story.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
I agree with this. I believe the story pillar of SWTOR greatly bolsters every single aspect of the game. Everything becomes relevant, real, and immersive.
I actually feel like I'm a Bounty Hunter when I go, by orders of the Hutts, to assassinate an important rebel leader, he offers me money to trick my boss, and I instead blast his face believing my loyalty to the powerful Hutts will lead to far more desireable rewards.
You know I never got a single kill mission, I think maybe one or two. The majority of the kill quests are secondary objectives which kind of fits in.
I need you to blow up the power generators, and if during the course you could severly hurt his forces that would be a bonus.
I thik it works but to each there own
There are a lot of PVE games and this is another one.
Crafting is stll somewhat of a mystery in terms of how well it ACTUALLY works...but looks like it could be fun
Realm vs realm 24/7 persistent world conflict. UUUHHHHH You have to wait to 50 ish, and still we don't know how good it is.
net net...for me I know the game has good pve.
crafting....realm vs realm persistent world conflict......still enough of a mystery to not let go of $59.95 at this time.Hopefully I'll learn more that will give me the confidence to buy.One can hope.
This is your choice to play the game as a SPRPG The option to join other players in game is still there.
How can it be considered Realm Vs Realm?
Why does everyone get a boner about RvR? It's one pixel avatar killing another pixel avatar, nothing more.
I tried to give a point by point breakdown in my Guildmasters SWTOR Review
The game isn't perfect, but it does have some good potential. I just hope that the general population will be somewhat forgiving that it doesn't have some core MMO features, and they better get them in soon if they want to last.
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At best its PvP.
It's not RvR.
It's actually faction based PVP, and I don't know where you got eh idea that you had to wait till 50. You can start fighting at 20 if you roll on a PVP server.
As for crafting...I don't think it's any big mystery. And if you have questions you can always ask, or look at one of the many sites already popping up about it.
To me Star Wars had a much darker gritty look and feel to it, which contrasts sharply with what is presented here. TOR's presentation is more Saturday morning cartoon. With a few touches here and there and some retexturing the game would look much more compelling in my opinion.
I like the voice overs and the story, but you are right on the money how the action is very...well....it reminds me of City of Heroes or something. The action is very boring and there is little in the world to excite the player except catch agro from two groups of mobs instead of one.
No chat bubbles
Are we playing the same game?
Hutta, Korriban pretty dark and barren,..then you get to Dromus Kaas. And the chooces you make to align yourself to the darkside are something you;d find in some Saturday morning cartoon. I recently did a mission cutting someones head off bring it back to soemone else in a bag.
I realy had to react to this thread and say MHO about this topic
some people realy dont know what they want do they??......let me explain this:
When playing a mmorpg people find it hard work to find groups (if the game doesnt do it for that by giving players a lfg TOOL) and are constantly whining about that.
SO, most mmorpg players play alone......really??, yeah....you try to group in an mmorpg with people you dont know.....try it befour you say this aint true..RLY!
So devs make PARTS in their game that is singleplayer and sets focus to storytelling (like all REAL rpg player likes btw) and some people need to bash on the SPlayer content....if you dont like it....just cut the scenes then....np right?
mmorpg players brought this single player back into mmoRPG's......why?......because you people dont like grouping, simple.
The only way people will group are irl friends and guildmembers.
You can say i am full of it all you want......but when games have the option to turn off the chat window mean that people WANT to be left alone.....like i say'd, IMHO i think you all asked for the singleplayer parts in mmo's yourself......didn't you??
hehe
my 2 copperz
Which is EXACTLY what he said....
Yeah, but the problem there is that the way the story goes, everyone is telling you how special and unique you are, yet just by looking around the illusion is broken byt the gazillion other "specia"l and" unique" plyers running around solving your personal problems just in front of you forcing you to wait until you can fix it as well, but to no avail as the world is not changed... Meh. He is right to be honest. Even if you choose to approach it in a mutliplayer mind set that doen't work either.
So why dont they tell the sotry is if you where one out of a gazillion others? Well, that would loose them the opportunity to stroke you ego by constantly telling you how "good" and "unique" and "special" you are, which is essential part of the psychology of making you keep on playing... (And paying)
TOR could have been more immersive as a single player game, then none of these 'I feel special, but only if I keep my eyes closed' issues would exist. It would have taken away the reason to suck a subscription fee out of you, but I guess nobody would have minded that really.
Yes, you could definitely be grouped with a friend while doing your quests, but it's not that simple.
Most people want to do what benefits them the most. For example, if you finished a quest to kill 10 smugglers, then you probably won't want to do it again. You won't get rewarded, there really is no point. So when someone asks you to group with them so they can do their quest (that you already completed), it feels like you're doing a chore.
So the whole quest paradigm discourages grouping. If you want proof just look at the zounds of other games that use this paradigm. I can't count how many times I have not grouped with someone because they weren't on the same quests as me. You can only really group if you happen to be on the same exact quests...and this happens infrequently unless you plan it out with someone.
My problem is that SWTOR does nothing to fix this and it really takes it to an extreme. I would say it has a very strong emphasis on quests, and quests are essentially what makes all these games feel more single player.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Good to hear that you guys have been asking BW to fix some of this stuff MW.
As for the highlighted section, I would say that it's what happens in an MMO where the quests are tied to the player not the world. Granted, nearly every themepark MMO shared this attrbute, but I don't think that's an excuse. I always saw the fact that each player is on their own personal "instance" of a questline in an MMORPG as a flaw. It takes away from the "world" aspect of the MMORPG and makes the world just a "staging area" where players can live their own isolated story.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Great point OP. I agree 100%. I do think this is one of the biggest issues with the game. By doing this, Bioware, in more than one way, has to limit itself and install things with a bit of caution...they are basically forcing a limited experience by having to cater to both genres.
I do think there are other problems (Mob AI, you don't really craft you send someone else to do it....not my style, character looks are bland and boring, world feels smaller than it actually is because of the linear progression....)
I find this hard to believe.
A chore to help others out in a game? Really? Maybe the real issue is not the game providing the MMO element, more like the player like yourself.