Amazing how quickly this turned into a "who is really a clone of who." So let me ask the question a different way....
Let's say I have a $100m dollars laying around and I want to create an mmorpg. What game features could I use that would not label my game as a "wow clone?"
I think it goes something like this:
Themepark = WoW
Sandbox = UO
Themepark + Sandbox = Innovative
Not sure why this is, but it seems to be at the root of the whole discussion. Personally, *I* don't see it this way, but...
And that innovation can be found in GW2.....
GW2 will play so much different from standard tab and click MMO's like WOW...
Sorry but GW2 is not a hybrid not even close. It is like a next version of improved themepark MMORPG's.
Can someone explain to me what EQ has in common with WoW?
EQ had a completely different interface and UI setup. It was extremely uninitutive.
EQ had no reliance on quests and quest hubs for leveling. Quests gave almost no experience, were difficult, and typically weren't done till later levels.
EQ was open world while WoW was heavily instanced.
EQ one raid sizes were significantly larger than WoW's raid sizes.
EQ had significantly more dungeons that were more complex.
In EQ you camped areas of a dungeon for spawns, while in WoW you clear dungeons and wait for a reset.
EQ had you choose factions where killing a member of one faction would cause you to lose faction with another. In WoW you can generally raise all factions.
EQ had a harsh death penalty of EXP loss and corpse recovery without gear. WoW has a fairly lenient death penalty.
EQ had almost no PvP outside of PvP servers with varying rulesets and FFA looting, the complete opposite of WoW's PvP.
EQ had massive attunement time sinks for end game raiding.
EQ had gear from previous expansions that was still considered useful. WoW's end game gear is outdated by greens in later expansions.
EQ had month to year long quests for epic weapons. WoW's legendary weapons drop off bosses.
EQ's combat was significantly slower than WoW's. Also, you were limited to the number of spells you could have on your hotbar. WoW has no such limit.
EQ had no maps or other exploration aids beyond /loc.
In EQ anyone could loot a corpse and the party that did the most damage get EXP credit. In WoW, you "tag" MOBs for EXP and loot credit.
How is this a clone again?
perhaps you forgot about EQ2, you know the one WoW copied? Go ahead, continue to rage.
I generalize EQ1 & 2 together, eventhough eq1 was a far more superior game. We just dont feel like saying "wow was an eq2 clone" we just generalize. I am not alone, there are a LOT of people that feel the same way. go ahead, continue to rage.
Can someone explain to me what EQ has in common with WoW?
EQ had a completely different interface and UI setup. It was extremely uninitutive.
EQ had no reliance on quests and quest hubs for leveling. Quests gave almost no experience, were difficult, and typically weren't done till later levels.
EQ was open world while WoW was heavily instanced.
EQ one raid sizes were significantly larger than WoW's raid sizes.
EQ had significantly more dungeons that were more complex.
In EQ you camped areas of a dungeon for spawns, while in WoW you clear dungeons and wait for a reset.
EQ had you choose factions where killing a member of one faction would cause you to lose faction with another. In WoW you can generally raise all factions.
EQ had a harsh death penalty of EXP loss and corpse recovery without gear. WoW has a fairly lenient death penalty.
EQ had almost no PvP outside of PvP servers with varying rulesets and FFA looting, the complete opposite of WoW's PvP.
EQ had massive attunement time sinks for end game raiding.
EQ had gear from previous expansions that was still considered useful. WoW's end game gear is outdated by greens in later expansions.
EQ had month to year long quests for epic weapons. WoW's legendary weapons drop off bosses.
EQ's combat was significantly slower than WoW's. Also, you were limited to the number of spells you could have on your hotbar. WoW has no such limit.
EQ had no maps or other exploration aids beyond /loc.
In EQ anyone could loot a corpse and the party that did the most damage get EXP credit. In WoW, you "tag" MOBs for EXP and loot credit.
How is this a clone again?
perhaps you forgot about EQ2, you know the one WoW copied? Go ahead, continue to rage.
I generalize EQ1 & 2 together, eventhough eq1 was a far more superior game. We just dont feel like saying "wow was an eq2 clone" we just generalize. I am not alone, there are a LOT of people that feel the same way. go ahead, continue to rage.
You do realize that EQ2 and WoW were released at roughly the same time? So, it's rather difficult for WoW to be a clone of an unreleased game.
It seems that every game on these forum(s) is called a "wow clone." Question.....
What would it take for an mmorpg to NOT be considered a "wow clone." Please be specific.
Anything that is not Guild Wars 2 is a WoW clone simply because even though they have elements of that game in them like pet taming for rangers, the majority of that game is completely different. progression is not done by raiding, dungeons, there is a home instance housing, multiple choice questing, the list goes on. Many of the things in GW2 are really quite new conceptually for a fantasy mmo.
Star Wars the Old Republic breaks away from the old EQ mold...
BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I kid, i kid. No, it's just a wow clone. It wont happen because building a WoW clone is safe, and large development houses like things that are safe.
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
Other options besides grinding for gear. An end-game that doesn't center on a select hardcore few.
An engaging leveling system that isn't just a pipeline to a gear grinding end-game.
Less hand holding. Meaning less detail on maps, and quest that don't need to be solved.
Exploration. No need to explore the world, since all the rewards are given by quest that tell you exactly where to go.
Crafting that is meaningful at end game.
Doing away with Soul-bound items.
Breaking the heal, tank, DPS roles.
Character customization. All toons aspire to wear the same gear, with the same stats, with the same abilities.
A robust economy at end-game that doesn't center around gearing alts. This is something all themeparks have in common. No economy at end-game, because all he gear is soul-bound.
Can someone explain to me what EQ has in common with WoW?
EQ had a completely different interface and UI setup. It was extremely uninitutive.
EQ had no reliance on quests and quest hubs for leveling. Quests gave almost no experience, were difficult, and typically weren't done till later levels.
EQ was open world while WoW was heavily instanced.
EQ one raid sizes were significantly larger than WoW's raid sizes.
EQ had significantly more dungeons that were more complex.
In EQ you camped areas of a dungeon for spawns, while in WoW you clear dungeons and wait for a reset.
EQ had you choose factions where killing a member of one faction would cause you to lose faction with another. In WoW you can generally raise all factions.
EQ had a harsh death penalty of EXP loss and corpse recovery without gear. WoW has a fairly lenient death penalty.
EQ had almost no PvP outside of PvP servers with varying rulesets and FFA looting, the complete opposite of WoW's PvP.
EQ had massive attunement time sinks for end game raiding.
EQ had gear from previous expansions that was still considered useful. WoW's end game gear is outdated by greens in later expansions.
EQ had month to year long quests for epic weapons. WoW's legendary weapons drop off bosses.
EQ's combat was significantly slower than WoW's. Also, you were limited to the number of spells you could have on your hotbar. WoW has no such limit.
EQ had no maps or other exploration aids beyond /loc.
In EQ anyone could loot a corpse and the party that did the most damage get EXP credit. In WoW, you "tag" MOBs for EXP and loot credit.
How is this a clone again?
perhaps you forgot about EQ2, you know the one WoW copied? Go ahead, continue to rage.
I generalize EQ1 & 2 together, eventhough eq1 was a far more superior game. We just dont feel like saying "wow was an eq2 clone" we just generalize. I am not alone, there are a LOT of people that feel the same way. go ahead, continue to rage.
You do realize that EQ2 and WoW were released at roughly the same time? So, it's rather difficult for WoW to be a clone of an unreleased game.
Actually, EQ2 was quite different upon release. EQ2 then totally changed the game(for the better), and has ever since copied everything WoW has done(yes, even tokens for gear).
Can someone explain to me what EQ has in common with WoW?
How is this a clone again?
perhaps you forgot about EQ2, you know the one WoW copied? Go ahead, continue to rage.
I generalize EQ1 & 2 together, eventhough eq1 was a far more superior game. We just dont feel like saying "wow was an eq2 clone" we just generalize. I am not alone, there are a LOT of people that feel the same way. go ahead, continue to rage.
You do realize that EQ2 and WoW were released at roughly the same time? So, it's rather difficult for WoW to be a clone of an unreleased game.
Actually, EQ2 was quite different upon release. EQ2 then totally changed the game(for the better), and has ever since copied everything WoW has done(yes, even tokens for gear).
Quite true.
EQ2 and WoW both in their early stages had "fixes" for things people often complained about that was "missing" from previous titles. They borrowed a lot of mechanics from Anarchy Online and DAoC, tweeked them, and gave them a generational upgrade.
Examples being auction houses, quest tracking, and xp advancement via questing (before we had to grind mobs).
I played EQ2 at laucnh, a few weeks prior to WoW (that I also played at launch) and was quite happy to see respawning nodes, maps that seemed to matter, even quest hubs.
It made me think (what's next).. That seems like forever ago. I guess it was SO perfect then there hasn't been much desire.. Oh wait, yeah, subs got impressive numbers so now they're going to grind it into the ground rather than innovate. I get ya.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
I havent played WoW, so I ultimately dont have an idea what a WoW clone would be. I only know that WoW and Vanguard are both EQ clones, so WoW resembles Vanguard in many points.
Personally I am deeply annoyed about a couple WoW concepts, part of which appeared in Vanguard as well, like for example:
- Realm vs Realm. As popular as it is stupid. If done like DAoC, I can see the point. But with same classes on both sides, I fail to see why it cant be just player alliance vs player alliance.
- Battlegrounds. Most. Stupid. Idea. Ever. Have open world PvP or leave me alone, for heavens sake.
- Instanced Dungeons. Well, better than instancing the whole world (like Guild Wars), but not MUCH better. Yeah I know it creates conflicts of interest. I still dont want instancing.
- Race restricted classes. Its OK if every race gets their own classes (like Lineage 2), but if everybody gets the same classes and darkelf just cant be shaman for no good reason whatsoever, I'm deeply annoyed (thats a Vanguard example, I dont know if WoW's Bloodelf can be Shaman or not). There is just no logical reason for that.
- Soulbound items. Okay, there is something more stupid, and that is permanent item decay. I like my item focussed games (like WoW is), thank you a lot. But I dont want everything forcefed soulbound, just to "vitalize the economy".
- Questitems. Yeah I like getting nice rewards from quests. I just consider it stupid that you cannot also craft them. I prefer every item in the game being craftable.
It seems that every game on these forum(s) is called a "wow clone." Question.....
What would it take for an mmorpg to NOT be considered a "wow clone." Please be specific.
Deviating from high fantasy level-based class-restricted design would be a good start.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Sorry but GW2 is not a hybrid not even close. It is like a next version of improved themepark MMORPG's.
perhaps you forgot about EQ2, you know the one WoW copied? Go ahead, continue to rage.
I generalize EQ1 & 2 together, eventhough eq1 was a far more superior game. We just dont feel like saying "wow was an eq2 clone" we just generalize. I am not alone, there are a LOT of people that feel the same way. go ahead, continue to rage.
You do realize that EQ2 and WoW were released at roughly the same time? So, it's rather difficult for WoW to be a clone of an unreleased game.
<edit spelling>
Anything that is not Guild Wars 2 is a WoW clone simply because even though they have elements of that game in them like pet taming for rangers, the majority of that game is completely different. progression is not done by raiding, dungeons, there is a home instance housing, multiple choice questing, the list goes on. Many of the things in GW2 are really quite new conceptually for a fantasy mmo.
TSW is by far the most original AAA MMO in the horizon, but since it's funcon, people are going to talk shit about it anyway...
only someone who played at least 1 ARG, knows the real amount of thought they are putting in it, but that is the point, it is a niche game.
Star Wars the Old Republic breaks away from the old EQ mold...
BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I kid, i kid. No, it's just a wow clone.
It wont happen because building a WoW clone is safe, and large development houses like things that are safe.
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
Other options besides grinding for gear. An end-game that doesn't center on a select hardcore few.
An engaging leveling system that isn't just a pipeline to a gear grinding end-game.
Less hand holding. Meaning less detail on maps, and quest that don't need to be solved.
Exploration. No need to explore the world, since all the rewards are given by quest that tell you exactly where to go.
Crafting that is meaningful at end game.
Doing away with Soul-bound items.
Breaking the heal, tank, DPS roles.
Character customization. All toons aspire to wear the same gear, with the same stats, with the same abilities.
A robust economy at end-game that doesn't center around gearing alts. This is something all themeparks have in common. No economy at end-game, because all he gear is soul-bound.
Just my quick random thoughts.
Actually, EQ2 was quite different upon release. EQ2 then totally changed the game(for the better), and has ever since copied everything WoW has done(yes, even tokens for gear).
Quite true.
EQ2 and WoW both in their early stages had "fixes" for things people often complained about that was "missing" from previous titles. They borrowed a lot of mechanics from Anarchy Online and DAoC, tweeked them, and gave them a generational upgrade.
Examples being auction houses, quest tracking, and xp advancement via questing (before we had to grind mobs).
I played EQ2 at laucnh, a few weeks prior to WoW (that I also played at launch) and was quite happy to see respawning nodes, maps that seemed to matter, even quest hubs.
It made me think (what's next).. That seems like forever ago. I guess it was SO perfect then there hasn't been much desire.. Oh wait, yeah, subs got impressive numbers so now they're going to grind it into the ground rather than innovate. I get ya.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
I havent played WoW, so I ultimately dont have an idea what a WoW clone would be. I only know that WoW and Vanguard are both EQ clones, so WoW resembles Vanguard in many points.
Personally I am deeply annoyed about a couple WoW concepts, part of which appeared in Vanguard as well, like for example:
- Realm vs Realm. As popular as it is stupid. If done like DAoC, I can see the point. But with same classes on both sides, I fail to see why it cant be just player alliance vs player alliance.
- Battlegrounds. Most. Stupid. Idea. Ever. Have open world PvP or leave me alone, for heavens sake.
- Instanced Dungeons. Well, better than instancing the whole world (like Guild Wars), but not MUCH better. Yeah I know it creates conflicts of interest. I still dont want instancing.
- Race restricted classes. Its OK if every race gets their own classes (like Lineage 2), but if everybody gets the same classes and darkelf just cant be shaman for no good reason whatsoever, I'm deeply annoyed (thats a Vanguard example, I dont know if WoW's Bloodelf can be Shaman or not). There is just no logical reason for that.
- Soulbound items. Okay, there is something more stupid, and that is permanent item decay. I like my item focussed games (like WoW is), thank you a lot. But I dont want everything forcefed soulbound, just to "vitalize the economy".
- Questitems. Yeah I like getting nice rewards from quests. I just consider it stupid that you cannot also craft them. I prefer every item in the game being craftable.
Deviating from high fantasy level-based class-restricted design would be a good start.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre