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Why does SWTOR need LEVELS?

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  • dubyahitedubyahite Member UncommonPosts: 2,483

    Wow. I guess people are running out of things to complain about. 

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Originally posted by Vryheid

    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame,

    When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • KidonKidon Member UncommonPosts: 399

    Originally posted by thexrated

    Sorry, but not once I felt like grinding in SWTOR. Did not really care about levels apart from getting new skills.

    true that, there could be a 200lvl cap i wouldnt care less, i would still be playing star wars

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by Vryheid

    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame, When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Yet another plea for instant gratification from you without any effort to try and understand other people's p.o.v.

    Really hoping Bioware will never cater for that in Swtor.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Originally posted by DarkPony


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by Vryheid

    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame, When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Yet another plea for instant gratification from you without any effort to try and understand other people's p.o.v.

    Really hoping Bioware will never cater for that in Swtor.

     

    Oh yeah way to go dismissing a discussion with your bias.

    Standing around grinding mobs just to level compared to a progression of meaningful objectives.... Decisions decisions

    Levels come to a end. Endgame doesn't.

    Why have levels when endgame is the most meaningful part of a mmorpg? Only thing levels do, is segregate the community and contents, making lower level stuff, useless once out leveled. Some good design that is. Glad Anet thinks outside the box with this. Too bad other developers don't adopt similar concepts. Hope Blizzard steals the idea for WoW, than other developers would no doubt adopt the concept.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by Vryheid

    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame, When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Yet another plea for instant gratification from you without any effort to try and understand other people's p.o.v.

    Really hoping Bioware will never cater for that in Swtor.

     

    Oh yeah way to go dismissing a discussion with your bias. Standing around grinding mobs just to level compared to a progression of meaningful objectives.... Decisions decisions Levels come to a end. Endgame doesn't. Why have levels when endgame is the most meaningful part of a mmorpg? Only thing levels do, is segregate the community and contents, making lower level stuff, useless once out leveled. Some good design that is. Glad Anet thinks outside the box with this. Too bad other developers don't adopt similar concepts. Hope Blizzard steals the idea for WoW, than other developers would no doubt adopt the concept.

    > Contradictio in terminis detected.

    > Assessment: all further discussion with subject futile

    > Terminating discussion

    > |

     

  • dubyahitedubyahite Member UncommonPosts: 2,483

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by Vryheid

    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame, When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Yet another plea for instant gratification from you without any effort to try and understand other people's p.o.v.

    Really hoping Bioware will never cater for that in Swtor.

     

    Oh yeah way to go dismissing a discussion with your bias. Standing around grinding mobs just to level compared to a progression of meaningful objectives.... Decisions decisions Levels come to a end. Endgame doesn't. Why have levels when endgame is the most meaningful part of a mmorpg? Only thing levels do, is segregate the community and contents, making lower level stuff, useless once out leveled. Some good design that is. Glad Anet thinks outside the box with this. Too bad other developers don't adopt similar concepts. Hope Blizzard steals the idea for WoW, than other developers would no doubt adopt the concept.

    You think there is any chance of Blizzard doing away with levels in WoW? I seriously doubt that.

     

    The leveling content in TOR is anythign but filler content for that matter. 

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  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
    Nope don't care. Regardless of wether you are acruing xp for level or skill points the concept is similliar.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Originally posted by dubyahite


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by DarkPony


    Originally posted by MMOExposed



    Originally posted by Vryheid


    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame, When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Yet another plea for instant gratification from you without any effort to try and understand other people's p.o.v.

    Really hoping Bioware will never cater for that in Swtor.

     

    Oh yeah way to go dismissing a discussion with your bias. Standing around grinding mobs just to level compared to a progression of meaningful objectives.... Decisions decisions Levels come to a end. Endgame doesn't. Why have levels when endgame is the most meaningful part of a mmorpg? Only thing levels do, is segregate the community and contents, making lower level stuff, useless once out leveled. Some good design that is. Glad Anet thinks outside the box with this. Too bad other developers don't adopt similar concepts. Hope Blizzard steals the idea for WoW, than other developers would no doubt adopt the concept.

    You think there is any chance of Blizzard doing away with levels in WoW? I seriously doubt that.

     

    The leveling content in TOR is anythign but filler content for that matter. 

     

    yeah they will, especially with GW2 coming soon with dynamic levels. Blizzard has already stated that they were working on a level scaling system

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • AdamTMAdamTM Member Posts: 1,376

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by DarkPony


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by Vryheid

    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame, When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Yet another plea for instant gratification from you without any effort to try and understand other people's p.o.v.

    Really hoping Bioware will never cater for that in Swtor.

     

    Oh yeah way to go dismissing a discussion with your bias. Standing around grinding mobs just to level compared to a progression of meaningful objectives.... Decisions decisions Levels come to a end. Endgame doesn't. Why have levels when endgame is the most meaningful part of a mmorpg? Only thing levels do, is segregate the community and contents, making lower level stuff, useless once out leveled. Some good design that is. Glad Anet thinks outside the box with this. Too bad other developers don't adopt similar concepts. Hope Blizzard steals the idea for WoW, than other developers would no doubt adopt the concept.

    You think there is any chance of Blizzard doing away with levels in WoW? I seriously doubt that.

     

    The leveling content in TOR is anythign but filler content for that matter. 

     

    yeah they will, especially with GW2 coming soon with dynamic levels. Blizzard has already stated that they were working on a level scaling system

    Seems to be a trend nowadays anyways to go away from level-centered design and offer different progression-paths for characters.

    image
  • SpawnLODSpawnLOD Member Posts: 33

    I actually like the idea of levels... Games like UO made me want to pull my ahair out (What left I have that is) I played both weekend and can tell you that I will be playing for a long time to come.

  • dubyahitedubyahite Member UncommonPosts: 2,483

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by dubyahite


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by DarkPony


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by Vryheid

    I love level systems when they are implemented properly. It allows you to develop and diversify your character while giving a real sense of accomplishment. The level system is Skyrim is probably the best I've ever seen, as it encourages players to interact with a variety of gameplay elements while specializing in perk trees. If there was no level system there's nothing preventing a player from simply going directly to end game while skipping 95% of a game's quests and content. Who really wants that?

     

    I totally disagree. How can you say you are skipping 95% of the game and jumping to endgame, When a game without levels, start at endgame from the first day. No point in filler contents that become useless. The whole game should be endgame. That is something level based games just don't do. Why do you want all that filler contents?

    Yet another plea for instant gratification from you without any effort to try and understand other people's p.o.v.

    Really hoping Bioware will never cater for that in Swtor.

     

    Oh yeah way to go dismissing a discussion with your bias. Standing around grinding mobs just to level compared to a progression of meaningful objectives.... Decisions decisions Levels come to a end. Endgame doesn't. Why have levels when endgame is the most meaningful part of a mmorpg? Only thing levels do, is segregate the community and contents, making lower level stuff, useless once out leveled. Some good design that is. Glad Anet thinks outside the box with this. Too bad other developers don't adopt similar concepts. Hope Blizzard steals the idea for WoW, than other developers would no doubt adopt the concept.

    You think there is any chance of Blizzard doing away with levels in WoW? I seriously doubt that.

     

    The leveling content in TOR is anythign but filler content for that matter. 

     

    yeah they will, especially with GW2 coming soon with dynamic levels. Blizzard has already stated that they were working on a level scaling system

    Seems to be a trend nowadays anyways to go away from level-centered design and offer different progression-paths for characters.

    Perhaps, but I just don't see an established game like WoW making a huge sweeping change to the design of the game like that. Of course at this point they've got nothing to look forward to except decline, so maybe they try some crazy stuff in the hopes of holding onto people's attention.

     

    Thing is, I don't see the problem with the level system especially in TOR. I barely notice it when leveling in this game. It's been an established game mechanic that simply works and is fun since the days of pen and paper games. It's not going anywhere any time soon I don't think. 

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  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    I know that the game is theme park MMO, but does that mean it need levels to tell a story? Zelda didn't have levels yet it still has a story and character progression. Levels seem like a waisted feature. It's pointless and uninteresting. I don't like level grinds. I would rather spend my time playing in a open world and having fun doing what I like to do. And the excuse that subscription based games need levels to keep people playing is, just that, an excuse. It's not true. Because if it were true, games like AoC and Warhammer wouldn't have had huge drops in subs after the free month. Bioware should have went with the no level model, or at least added a dynamic level scaling feature like Guild Wars 2 does. Anybody care to agree or disagree?

     

    Levels in a MMORPG are at best an illusion and at worse a barrier to community, balance (in a game that has PvP), and entry for new players.

    At the most they should be nothing more then a personal measure of progress that only matters to the owner of the character. As soon as they apply to a shared world... well, that's where the trouble starts.

    ANet ofc understand all of this.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

        Honestly OP.  Whether you are grinding levels or grinding skkill points, I don't see any difference.  At least with levels I know if i have a chance at taking down the next guy I fight, unlike the skill points.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    I know that the game is theme park MMO, but does that mean it need levels to tell a story? Zelda didn't have levels yet it still has a story and character progression. Levels seem like a waisted feature. It's pointless and uninteresting. I don't like level grinds. I would rather spend my time playing in a open world and having fun doing what I like to do. And the excuse that subscription based games need levels to keep people playing is, just that, an excuse. It's not true. Because if it were true, games like AoC and Warhammer wouldn't have had huge drops in subs after the free month. Bioware should have went with the no level model, or at least added a dynamic level scaling feature like Guild Wars 2 does. Anybody care to agree or disagree?

    AGREE

    There , bold and caps :)

     



  • GajariGajari Member Posts: 984

    SWToR needs levels because BioWare hates the OP and holds grudges.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Originally posted by GMan3

        Honestly OP.  Whether you are grinding levels or grinding skkill points, I don't see any difference.  At least with levels I know if i have a chance at taking down the next guy I fight, unlike the skill points.

     

    See you don't think outside the box. You assume that if a game doesn't have levels than it must have the skill grind instead. Nope! I had my own idea for how it should be done. And level grind and skill grind aren't needed. And no fillers ether.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • dubyahitedubyahite Member UncommonPosts: 2,483

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by GMan3

        Honestly OP.  Whether you are grinding levels or grinding skkill points, I don't see any difference.  At least with levels I know if i have a chance at taking down the next guy I fight, unlike the skill points.

     

    See you don't think outside the box. You assume that if a game doesn't have levels than it must have the skill grind instead. Nope! I had my own idea for how it should be done. And level grind and skill grind aren't needed. And no fillers ether.

    Great! you have your own idea. Go get that game made then. 

     

    Oh wait, you don't have the millions of dollars required to invest in an mmo? Guess who does. Bioware. This is what they decided to do with their money. Risk vs reward. They made their design decisions. I'm sure they deeply regret not consulting you on the matter, but hey what can you do?

     

     

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