is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
+1 but that goes for all the whiners.
There are a few good sandbox posters on this site. The ones that stand out as good sports are Kyleran and Loke666. The problem being is that they are the exception, and not the rule.
If there was a MMO site that was equal to what MMORPG.com offers, and without the whining about "we want a sandbox", I would leave this place and never look back.
Then again maybe I wouldnt. The melt downs each time a new themepark is announced makes the rest of the BS somewhat tolerable.
This is all off topic but anyway. I think you'll find there are more than two good posters who like sandbox games. I think you'll find that because not everyone who likes them continually whines about the lack of good ones. While I am probably not a good poster I rarely whine about it and don't visit regularly enough for you to even know I prefer sandbox games. I imagine there are more like me but with a better ability to write
Without at least 1k posts, your name really wont stand out to anyone unless you are making a bunch of "wah" posts.
Kyl and Loke are ones that have stood out to me. They are pretty damn fair posters, and even though they like a different genre, I respect their opinion. I am sure there are others, and I dont recognize them. The problem being is that misery luvs company, and it is the norm for sandbox gamers to sound off about themeparks in their "why cant we have a sandbox" thread that is started anew every day or two.
I think that's a part of the problem that this thread is about though. That the most vocal in the forums don't always represent the majority.
It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*
I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).
And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.
What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately
LOGIN/OUT questionnaires sort of like they had in beta???...excellent suggestion! And it's a way for them to stay ahead of the game..ie before the sh!t hits the forums LOL. That's the best time for a player to voice his/her concerns directly to BIOWARE devs.
I also agree. That way they'd get feedback from the most people (majority) rather than the most vocal.
Exactly! and when I think about it, even though they have forums and people to montior them for gameplay issues--this just seems like a much better and efficient approach. The only SOE questionnaire I got was when I cancelled my subscription...a bit late.
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
Awesome contribution. I'm sure TOR will be so much better off with folks like yourself in the game. :rolleyes:
I really didnt feel like reading all of that once you started talking about nerfs. Thats in every game since the beginning of MMORPG's. Its called balance. You dont need to be a SWG outcast to know about nerfs and that "insight" certainly isnt anything SWTOR needs SWG outcasts opinions on.
Without having as much MMO expereince as a lot the members here, I gathered that nerfs are common...and yes, sometimes needed. The thing is, SOE gave us their reason for nerfs--and I don't know...I just didn't find the "it's easier to take away from" attitude appealing in a product I paid monthly for...so like many, I voted with my wallet. You're right that SWG vets aren't unique to the nerf experience, and it goes without saying that regardless of MMO background, everyone is invited to share any advice they might have to help the SWTOR community avoid too many sub-costing nerfs. I don't know about you, but I liked it better in beta when there were a lot of players running around...even though it was still hard getting a group LOL. I guess keeping people playing is important for me because I play during off-peak hours, and it would be nice to not be the only one on a planet.
It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*
I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).
And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.
What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately
LOGIN/OUT questionnaires sort of like they had in beta???...excellent suggestion! And it's a way for them to stay ahead of the game..ie before the sh!t hits the forums LOL. That's the best time for a player to voice his/her concerns directly to BIOWARE devs.
I also agree. That way they'd get feedback from the most people (majority) rather than the most vocal.
Exactly! and when I think about it, even though they have forums and people to montior them for gameplay issues--this just seems like a much better and efficient approach. The only SOE questionnaire I got was when I cancelled my subscription...a bit late.
Well forums have their perks too so I don't want to write them off completely. I think they are especially good for smaller more mature communities but not so much for giant communities like WoW or SWTOR. I believe this mainly because in a smaller forum you tend to know more of the posters (and so would community reps) while in larger forums it's harder to familiarise yourself with the community at large.
For example I remember the other day at the SWTOR boards, I was trying to read an entire thread before I posted and there was more pages coming in quicker than I was reading them. Things were constantly getting repeated and misunderstood which fueled it even further. Realistically if I had to monitor just that one thread I wouldn't have been able to take note of usernames and who was posting more than once. I don't envy the community reps over there that is for sure.
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen. Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you. SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.
Awesome contribution. I'm sure TOR will be so much better off with folks like yourself in the game. :rolleyes:
Majwood speaks the truth though.
Does he/she?...sorry I can't tell sex by the names here, but for the record, I'm a guy...never really thought about that before LOL
I played SWG and met some great and VERY helpful people...I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment--I hope many of them enjoy SWTOR.
It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*
I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).
And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.
What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately
LOGIN/OUT questionnaires sort of like they had in beta???...excellent suggestion! And it's a way for them to stay ahead of the game..ie before the sh!t hits the forums LOL. That's the best time for a player to voice his/her concerns directly to BIOWARE devs.
I also agree. That way they'd get feedback from the most people (majority) rather than the most vocal.
Exactly! and when I think about it, even though they have forums and people to montior them for gameplay issues--this just seems like a much better and efficient approach. The only SOE questionnaire I got was when I cancelled my subscription...a bit late.
Well forums have their perks too so I don't want to write them off completely. I think they are especially good for smaller more mature communities but not so much for giant communities like WoW or SWTOR. I believe this mainly because in a smaller forum you tend to know more of the posters (and so would community reps) while in larger forums it's harder to familiarise yourself with the community at large.
For example I remember the other day at the SWTOR boards, I was trying to read an entire thread before I posted and there was more pages coming in quicker than I was reading them. Things were constantly getting repeated and misunderstood which fueled it even further. Realistically if I had to monitor just that one thread I wouldn't have been able to take note of usernames and who was posting more than once. I don't envy the community reps over there that is for sure.
Defintiely wouldn't get rid of forums...maybe look at the topics being posted most often, and use that information to determine the subject matter of questionnaires. Forums were and still are waaay too valuable to this noob--it's how I figure out what does what and when LOL
Sadly I have to agree with alot of what he said, I was there in SWG since beta, the sad thing is alot of us really enjoyed SWG pre NGE but we spent our time in game enjoying it, what is forgotten and uncomfortable for alot of people is that NGE came about based on the pure hatred and complaining in the forums, we never really realised how good we had it until they took away our freedom.
So yes if you are going to talk on balance etc slant your posts towards how your class or campanion can be improved not by nerfing someone else but by improving yours, no need to rage on the romance or rp side of the game if you do not like it because alot do like it, just ask for what you want to do.
I will add one very simple piece of advice, in SWG I never visited the forums pre NGE, why ? because I was having too much fun in game, looking back I saw the signs but I never visited the forums in defence of sony or my gameplay.
So please please please all of you who have fun in SWTOR who are having a blast, go on the forums write positives to balance the negatives we know will happen.
I know your time is preciouse and you would prefer to be in game but log onto the forums and let people know how much you love your class, your char, your game.
I like the OP and I did read it and I do agree that players should not attack each other or request nerfing too much.
That being said, in my opinion nerfing is great. I think every game developer should watch what classes people are playing in their games and nerf those classes, and give the classes nobody is playing cooler and more powerful abilities. When 50% of players are all playing the same class, that is a huge indication that a nerf is needed. Developers need to nerf gradually and watch how the players react.
But nerfing is great. Especially when done quickly, because the longer you let players be overpowered the longer they'll think it is OK. That is one of the problems with SWG...
In SWG the buffs were overpowered. This was a huge problem with the combat starting around 2 months into the games release... A HUGE problem. Nobody wanted to say it because every player 'benefited' from it, but it ruined the gameplay mechanics significantly. The whole HAM system, the armor system, the skill system, the balancing for riflemen, etc. It had a HUGE effect. The buffs were SUPER OVERPOWERED. In my opinion, this eventually led to the NGE. I know most wouldnt agree.
I agree that if there's a balance issue it should be handled quickly, and hopefully SWTOR's team of devs do just that...and since we know they can monitor the population, it only makes sense that they should use those metrics to make balancing decisions. Beyond that, it's so important that people understand what it is they're communicating--are they asking for an ability, or complaining about someone else's ability? I know I'd rather ask for something that I feel my character should be able to do, than complain about what other classes can do.
I think that SWG suffered under the weight of it's complexity, and because of that, things either went unfixed or got nerfed to bits most of the time. I thik the only answer they had to the super buffs were spawning mobs that could still kick our butts...like that darn black armored storm trooper LOL...I steered clear of him.
SOE CU/NGE is the poster child of how to ruin a MMO..... Every Developer knows this and I seriously doubt we will ever see a Developer try and pull the same thing on their customers what SOE did to theirs..
The biggest obstacle SWG had was a extremely steep learning curve, with no tutorials or anything else to help you get going a lot of people got frustrated and left before really giving the game a chance. Even tho I think SWG had decent amount of subscribers I do think most of that was artificially inflated due to people having 2-4 accounts each due to only being able to create one toon at a time.. If you removed all the extra accounts people had the true population was pretty low...
As much as people like to think otherwise SWG was not that popular.... this is one of the reasons SOE tried to do what they did.. After WOW came out, they saw that Theme Park MMO's was where the money was and tried to convert SWG into one.... which turned into a huge mess and gave SWG a terrible reputation once the Vets went on the war path telling everyone who listened how screwed SWG:NGE was and how SOE treated there customers..
SWG had great potential but greed won out and destroyed it....
So bottom line: The players had nothing to do with the demise of SWG, I put that blame squarely on SOE and LucasArts...
Honestly i doubt that Bioware is crazy enough to really go to far out from what they have already created to get even close to what SWG did to destroy itself. Swg had an incredible steep learning curve coming into the game for the first time and ill admit if it hadnt been for ppl helping me out and getting me in a guild and having a kind of mentors id probably wouldnt have lasted more then the free month. That said once you got pass that the game had alot that you could do and alot of versatility to keep you doing activities even without alot of missions.
The game was really set up for a almost totally player run entertainment. Think if the creators would have had time to really put in extras and get it going well it would have done better. The fact remains that most of what you had to do was based off what others needed or wanted. Someone needed hide you went scout/ranger and got it. Pretty simple. Now having said im a SWG vet yeah ill admit i still hate that they killed the game and that i never have found another that entertained me nearly as well or as long. I dont stay up crying but i have been known to complain to others about it going south with the NGE.
Think Soe biggest mistake was looking at Wow and all its Themepark sucess and thinking that being like it was a way to make cash. Now from a certain point of view it makes sense but they didnt think that if they got that experience with Wow then why would they leave it for the same thing with SWG. Greed and stupidity killed SWG and its been having its bones picked on for years TBH. The game needs to end and ppl need to leave it alone. Dont forget it just stop bringing it up so much.
Bioware seems like they have their plan well in hand and are gonna stick to their own course which honestly is probably a good thing. Now as far as the Op yeah if you dont have to suffer threw some aspect of the game then its wise to let it go. If something makes you do alittle effort but has the effect of making alot of others happy then bite your lip and press on. But if something is making you quit or is so bad that your gonna leave game you should say something. Dont have to make a dozen post on every site that will let you but you should let your thoughts be heard.
I recognize I might have been a bit off the mark asking people to remain completely silent on things they don't like LOL. My bad
Hey Glenn Beck, get off of MMORPG.com forums, please. Thanks.
Why wouldn't MMORPG want Glenn Beck on it's forums?...and how do you even know he's on here? If he is, I might watch his show just in case he mentions he plays SWTOR...if you want to engage him, try posting a thread about it, but probably not in the SWTOR section.
Professions are like any other job. A trash collector is going is to have an easier job than an architect who has to spend more time and thought. I really don't care if they nerf professions. Classes yeah. When I was playing WoW at some point prot pallys were doing major damage and going toe to toe with DKs when they were new. So they nerfed BOTH of them. Kind of annoying. DKs were kind of OP at first but I found ways to work around it. I guess its just a matter of opinion. But we all have opinions. I don't think sitting there and just expressing all the positives and what OTHER things they could add would save a game. If something sucks then it should be addressed. If a lot of things suck about a game then that means its a f$%^ mess and probably should be ran into the ground if they don't address those issues that eventually turn people off of a game.
Honestly, while the game itself is great, the graphics suck. Just plain old and outdated. Not much of a big step up from SWG. Just more environmental content if anything. If players run it into the ground then its the dev's fault.
OP, the reason people respond the way they do is because they didn't even bother skimming your wall of text, combined with your title. Without context it kinda sounds like you're on a mission to "save" SWTOR, which, considering most SWG vets' attitudes towards the game, would mean to "fix" it, that is making it more like SWG pre-NGE.
I'm glad you picked up on that, and I'm going to let you in on a little secret...I did that on purpose to illustrate one thing that completely went over the heads of some of the posters....and that's simply that not all SWG Vets want this game to fail--some even want it to succeed...even if they don't like it themselves. Sure, you have some here hoping it crashes and burns, but that doesn't mean they speak for us all. So hear this everybody: SWG + Vets =/= Troll LOL
What prompted this thread was I was reading some of the comparisons between Vanguard and Guardians on SWTOR's forums not too long ago (before they took them down), and I noticed some people were already starting down the path of "they can tank better than us!"...or the darkside lol. Looking back on my limited MMO experience, I was thinking "oh boy, I hope BIOWARE doesn't use that as an excuse to nerf Vanguards when it goes live".
I think the first step of "SWG vets" in "helping saving" or well... doing anything constructive is - stop identifying yourself as "SWG vets".
I played like a dozen MMORPGs in serious capacity over the last 14+ years, and i don't consider myself a "UO vet" or "WOW vet" or "TR vet" or whatever.
Yeah i liked some of those games, and some of them were killed by their corporate overlords while i was enjoing them, but i don't carry that baggage with me and let it ruin my gaming till the ends of time.
Treat every game for what it is, SW:TOR is SW:TOR, not "not-SWG".
I think the first step of "SWG vets" in "helping saving" or well... doing anything constructive is - stop identifying yourself as "SWG vets".
I played like a dozen MMORPGs in serious capacity over the last 14+ years, and i don't consider myself a "UO vet" or "WOW vet" or "TR vet" or whatever.
Yeah i liked some of those games, and some of them were killed by their corporate overlords while i was enjoing them, but i don't carry that baggage with me and let it ruin my gaming till the ends of time.
Treat every game for what it is, SW:TOR is SW:TOR, not "not-SWG".
Pretty much this, if your SWG vets then you all must be grown adults, then start acting like it and move on.
SW:TOR is nothing like SWG was pre-NGE. It is shallow, linear and casual, which is what pre-NGE tried to turn SWG into, to cater to the WoW/casual audience.
SW:TOR is already there so there is no risk of a NGE. You cant possibly make SW:TOR even more casual.
good to see that its not only me that is constantly annoyed by those 'aaaaw so vet' and 'aaaaaw so unfortunate' swg whiseassers. man up and get over it. We have seen hundreds of mmo-disasters while you were still crying over your first ;D
You might not have meant to, but your post basically lays the blame for the NGE at the feet of the players when it was clearly SOE who was at fault. You can't expect paying customers to keep their mouths shut when they are angry at a product. That will never happen in the retail business. It is up to the company itself to read and filter what is useful information and what is pure bull.
SOE should have realized that they were catering to a different player base and worked to stabilize SWG. By sticking to their original vision of the game,and fixing everything that was broken, they would have provided a nice contrast to WOW. I doubt Bioware will be as wishy washy with their games direction as SOE was.
SWG lost tons of people from the beginning which is why they kept changing the forumula to begin with, and SWG will meet it's end this week.
I am a day 1 vet of SWG myself and don't miss any specific incarnation of the game, had fun with each one in a different way.
SWTOR doesn't need the crybabies flooding it and trying to turn it in to some early SWG clone, this is the casual game era and nothing is going to change that.
It will evolve in to a really good game, and having the vocal minority here now complaining about it isn't going to bring back what barely anyone wanted to play to begin with.
Enjoy it for what it is, let SWG die in peace finally and stop complaining about the CU/NGE, it's been 6 years ffs.
Dont complain about things we dont like if it serves other pruposes for others.
Dont complain about classes to be nerfed when we should ask for balances.
In other words, you are trying to teach us how to be contructive to the devs. Even though, you did that in a round about way by using SWG and turning other points into a wall of text, I think what you are trying to do is important. I personally think that Beta is over rated( other than testing lag, and finding glitches... for example changing mechanics based on certain kinds of feed back while others enjoyed it), and unless poeple have a basic understanding other than thier own bias on game mechanics, and can add something useful for the devs, personal opinion is only important becuase people or customers mostly only have that. So the devs go by what the customer is saying. Unfortunately, if the customer is silly to mostly want nerfs instead of balances, then the devs do that.
So you make an assumtoipn, that 1. We can become smart enough as customers to collectivelly add postive feed back.
2. The devs with a certain kind of feed back would benefit more.
3. THe nerfs or changes to the game are done for certain reasons, when it could be fore others. For example balancing a class instead of nerfng could mean balancing every other class as well instead of nerfing just one. Imo, the best thing for them to do is have a flavor of the month, and it rotates. It makes things more interesting, but again we should then teach people to play thier characters even if the month is not in thier favor and to read patch notes as well.
So even though the intention is good, you need to reach and educate a lot of people, which is a lot of work for a video game which is a past time for some. How many video gamers do you think even browse forums for the games that they play unless there is a technical issue?
So we are left at the mercy of the devs making the best interpretation of the feed back given to them, and knowing on how to implement depending on what that idea is. Like I said, if people complain about nerfing a character maybe the devs will decide to balance all classes, instead of enrfing one. Its up to them, and if they do, they are giving up an opportunity cost of doing something else with thier game as well.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
SW:TOR is nothing like SWG was pre-NGE. It is shallow, linear and casual, which is what pre-NGE tried to turn SWG into, to cater to the WoW/casual audience.
SW:TOR is already there so there is no risk of a NGE. You cant possibly make SW:TOR even more casual.
Shallow, linear, and casual.....did you happen to see the entertainer class in SWG? Manginas looking for cyber action really made SWG such a mature/engrossing game /sarcasm off
I dont know about you, but farming the same PVE camp to respec to the FOTM, and buy the exact same buffs/gear is the epitome of shallow gameplay. Talk about getting on a treadmill. If you are going to work a job, you should be getting paid.
If you are into RP, then great..... maybe a game like SWG was wonderful to ya. For those of us that like a bit more out of gaming, games like TOR fit the ticket. I have no clue why you have camped on these boards, and carried on about this game. You dont like it....fine move on.
Let me clue ya in though, since in your weeks spent here ya havent figured it out. This game has already sold a ton of copies, and it is getting ready to really hit the motherload come the 20th. All the time you spent running the game down was for naught. /golfclap
I tell ya....if I ever get to the point that I spend my time on a games forum that I dont even play,pr intend to play, it is time to leave the internet. Perhaps you should consider it eh?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
SW:TOR is nothing like SWG was pre-NGE. It is shallow, linear and casual, which is what pre-NGE tried to turn SWG into, to cater to the WoW/casual audience.
SW:TOR is already there so there is no risk of a NGE. You cant possibly make SW:TOR even more casual.
Ok, that's your opinion, but now let's say for the sake of argument that you like--no, let's say you love it, and don't want it ruined by too many changes to gameplay or too many nerfs. How can, in your opinion, SWTOR fans voice their concerns about the game in such a way that reduces the risk of causing "rage-quit" nerfs?
You may want to compress your thoughts a bit. I will not, nor will many people ever read this wall of text. Just a thought for the future.
The wall of text was the best part...it mentioned you. Compressing thoughts is over-rated, but I think there are text-to-speech programs out there that can help if eye strain is an issue.
Comments
I think that's a part of the problem that this thread is about though. That the most vocal in the forums don't always represent the majority.
Exactly! and when I think about it, even though they have forums and people to montior them for gameplay issues--this just seems like a much better and efficient approach. The only SOE questionnaire I got was when I cancelled my subscription...a bit late.
I killed SWG
I left before the CU even hit, wow came out (and EQ2) and I left, SOE went insane seeing the rise of WoW and did silly things.
I feel better now,
@the OP when you talk about "us" dont lump me in with "all swg vets" and dont drop in a wall of text, I dont come here to read a book.
SWG is dead stop beating on it.
Without having as much MMO expereince as a lot the members here, I gathered that nerfs are common...and yes, sometimes needed. The thing is, SOE gave us their reason for nerfs--and I don't know...I just didn't find the "it's easier to take away from" attitude appealing in a product I paid monthly for...so like many, I voted with my wallet. You're right that SWG vets aren't unique to the nerf experience, and it goes without saying that regardless of MMO background, everyone is invited to share any advice they might have to help the SWTOR community avoid too many sub-costing nerfs. I don't know about you, but I liked it better in beta when there were a lot of players running around...even though it was still hard getting a group LOL. I guess keeping people playing is important for me because I play during off-peak hours, and it would be nice to not be the only one on a planet.
Well forums have their perks too so I don't want to write them off completely. I think they are especially good for smaller more mature communities but not so much for giant communities like WoW or SWTOR. I believe this mainly because in a smaller forum you tend to know more of the posters (and so would community reps) while in larger forums it's harder to familiarise yourself with the community at large.
For example I remember the other day at the SWTOR boards, I was trying to read an entire thread before I posted and there was more pages coming in quicker than I was reading them. Things were constantly getting repeated and misunderstood which fueled it even further. Realistically if I had to monitor just that one thread I wouldn't have been able to take note of usernames and who was posting more than once. I don't envy the community reps over there that is for sure.
Does he/she?...sorry I can't tell sex by the names here, but for the record, I'm a guy...never really thought about that before LOL
I played SWG and met some great and VERY helpful people...I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment--I hope many of them enjoy SWTOR.
Defintiely wouldn't get rid of forums...maybe look at the topics being posted most often, and use that information to determine the subject matter of questionnaires. Forums were and still are waaay too valuable to this noob--it's how I figure out what does what and when LOL
Sadly I have to agree with alot of what he said, I was there in SWG since beta, the sad thing is alot of us really enjoyed SWG pre NGE but we spent our time in game enjoying it, what is forgotten and uncomfortable for alot of people is that NGE came about based on the pure hatred and complaining in the forums, we never really realised how good we had it until they took away our freedom.
So yes if you are going to talk on balance etc slant your posts towards how your class or campanion can be improved not by nerfing someone else but by improving yours, no need to rage on the romance or rp side of the game if you do not like it because alot do like it, just ask for what you want to do.
I will add one very simple piece of advice, in SWG I never visited the forums pre NGE, why ? because I was having too much fun in game, looking back I saw the signs but I never visited the forums in defence of sony or my gameplay.
So please please please all of you who have fun in SWTOR who are having a blast, go on the forums write positives to balance the negatives we know will happen.
I know your time is preciouse and you would prefer to be in game but log onto the forums and let people know how much you love your class, your char, your game.
I agree that if there's a balance issue it should be handled quickly, and hopefully SWTOR's team of devs do just that...and since we know they can monitor the population, it only makes sense that they should use those metrics to make balancing decisions. Beyond that, it's so important that people understand what it is they're communicating--are they asking for an ability, or complaining about someone else's ability? I know I'd rather ask for something that I feel my character should be able to do, than complain about what other classes can do.
I think that SWG suffered under the weight of it's complexity, and because of that, things either went unfixed or got nerfed to bits most of the time. I thik the only answer they had to the super buffs were spawning mobs that could still kick our butts...like that darn black armored storm trooper LOL...I steered clear of him.
I recognize I might have been a bit off the mark asking people to remain completely silent on things they don't like LOL. My bad
Why wouldn't MMORPG want Glenn Beck on it's forums?...and how do you even know he's on here? If he is, I might watch his show just in case he mentions he plays SWTOR...if you want to engage him, try posting a thread about it, but probably not in the SWTOR section.
What the frak ?
Professions are like any other job. A trash collector is going is to have an easier job than an architect who has to spend more time and thought. I really don't care if they nerf professions. Classes yeah. When I was playing WoW at some point prot pallys were doing major damage and going toe to toe with DKs when they were new. So they nerfed BOTH of them. Kind of annoying. DKs were kind of OP at first but I found ways to work around it. I guess its just a matter of opinion. But we all have opinions. I don't think sitting there and just expressing all the positives and what OTHER things they could add would save a game. If something sucks then it should be addressed. If a lot of things suck about a game then that means its a f$%^ mess and probably should be ran into the ground if they don't address those issues that eventually turn people off of a game.
Honestly, while the game itself is great, the graphics suck. Just plain old and outdated. Not much of a big step up from SWG. Just more environmental content if anything. If players run it into the ground then its the dev's fault.
(o'')-O Vs Q('' Q)
I'm glad you picked up on that, and I'm going to let you in on a little secret...I did that on purpose to illustrate one thing that completely went over the heads of some of the posters....and that's simply that not all SWG Vets want this game to fail--some even want it to succeed...even if they don't like it themselves. Sure, you have some here hoping it crashes and burns, but that doesn't mean they speak for us all. So hear this everybody: SWG + Vets =/= Troll LOL
What prompted this thread was I was reading some of the comparisons between Vanguard and Guardians on SWTOR's forums not too long ago (before they took them down), and I noticed some people were already starting down the path of "they can tank better than us!"...or the darkside lol. Looking back on my limited MMO experience, I was thinking "oh boy, I hope BIOWARE doesn't use that as an excuse to nerf Vanguards when it goes live".
I think the first step of "SWG vets" in "helping saving" or well... doing anything constructive is - stop identifying yourself as "SWG vets".
I played like a dozen MMORPGs in serious capacity over the last 14+ years, and i don't consider myself a "UO vet" or "WOW vet" or "TR vet" or whatever.
Yeah i liked some of those games, and some of them were killed by their corporate overlords while i was enjoing them, but i don't carry that baggage with me and let it ruin my gaming till the ends of time.
Treat every game for what it is, SW:TOR is SW:TOR, not "not-SWG".
Pretty much this, if your SWG vets then you all must be grown adults, then start acting like it and move on.
SW:TOR is nothing like SWG was pre-NGE. It is shallow, linear and casual, which is what pre-NGE tried to turn SWG into, to cater to the WoW/casual audience.
SW:TOR is already there so there is no risk of a NGE. You cant possibly make SW:TOR even more casual.
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good to see that its not only me that is constantly annoyed by those 'aaaaw so vet' and 'aaaaaw so unfortunate' swg whiseassers. man up and get over it. We have seen hundreds of mmo-disasters while you were still crying over your first ;D
SOE should have realized that they were catering to a different player base and worked to stabilize SWG. By sticking to their original vision of the game,and fixing everything that was broken, they would have provided a nice contrast to WOW. I doubt Bioware will be as wishy washy with their games direction as SOE was.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Dear god OP give it up already.
SWG lost tons of people from the beginning which is why they kept changing the forumula to begin with, and SWG will meet it's end this week.
I am a day 1 vet of SWG myself and don't miss any specific incarnation of the game, had fun with each one in a different way.
SWTOR doesn't need the crybabies flooding it and trying to turn it in to some early SWG clone, this is the casual game era and nothing is going to change that.
It will evolve in to a really good game, and having the vocal minority here now complaining about it isn't going to bring back what barely anyone wanted to play to begin with.
Enjoy it for what it is, let SWG die in peace finally and stop complaining about the CU/NGE, it's been 6 years ffs.
So dont compain about things we dont do.
Dont complain about things we dont like if it serves other pruposes for others.
Dont complain about classes to be nerfed when we should ask for balances.
In other words, you are trying to teach us how to be contructive to the devs. Even though, you did that in a round about way by using SWG and turning other points into a wall of text, I think what you are trying to do is important. I personally think that Beta is over rated( other than testing lag, and finding glitches... for example changing mechanics based on certain kinds of feed back while others enjoyed it), and unless poeple have a basic understanding other than thier own bias on game mechanics, and can add something useful for the devs, personal opinion is only important becuase people or customers mostly only have that. So the devs go by what the customer is saying. Unfortunately, if the customer is silly to mostly want nerfs instead of balances, then the devs do that.
So you make an assumtoipn, that 1. We can become smart enough as customers to collectivelly add postive feed back.
2. The devs with a certain kind of feed back would benefit more.
3. THe nerfs or changes to the game are done for certain reasons, when it could be fore others. For example balancing a class instead of nerfng could mean balancing every other class as well instead of nerfing just one. Imo, the best thing for them to do is have a flavor of the month, and it rotates. It makes things more interesting, but again we should then teach people to play thier characters even if the month is not in thier favor and to read patch notes as well.
So even though the intention is good, you need to reach and educate a lot of people, which is a lot of work for a video game which is a past time for some. How many video gamers do you think even browse forums for the games that they play unless there is a technical issue?
So we are left at the mercy of the devs making the best interpretation of the feed back given to them, and knowing on how to implement depending on what that idea is. Like I said, if people complain about nerfing a character maybe the devs will decide to balance all classes, instead of enrfing one. Its up to them, and if they do, they are giving up an opportunity cost of doing something else with thier game as well.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Shallow, linear, and casual.....did you happen to see the entertainer class in SWG? Manginas looking for cyber action really made SWG such a mature/engrossing game /sarcasm off
I dont know about you, but farming the same PVE camp to respec to the FOTM, and buy the exact same buffs/gear is the epitome of shallow gameplay. Talk about getting on a treadmill. If you are going to work a job, you should be getting paid.
If you are into RP, then great..... maybe a game like SWG was wonderful to ya. For those of us that like a bit more out of gaming, games like TOR fit the ticket. I have no clue why you have camped on these boards, and carried on about this game. You dont like it....fine move on.
Let me clue ya in though, since in your weeks spent here ya havent figured it out. This game has already sold a ton of copies, and it is getting ready to really hit the motherload come the 20th. All the time you spent running the game down was for naught. /golfclap
I tell ya....if I ever get to the point that I spend my time on a games forum that I dont even play,pr intend to play, it is time to leave the internet. Perhaps you should consider it eh?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Ok, that's your opinion, but now let's say for the sake of argument that you like--no, let's say you love it, and don't want it ruined by too many changes to gameplay or too many nerfs. How can, in your opinion, SWTOR fans voice their concerns about the game in such a way that reduces the risk of causing "rage-quit" nerfs?
Would you go for expressing them succinctly?