I was being sincere. And my challenge isn’t levied against GW2 only. My perception that Wintergrasp-like instanced battleground WvW PvP doesn’t make a game massively-multiplayer.
Why is WvWvW a instanced battleground and isnt the PvE world a huge instanced raid?
As i plan to stay 90% of the game in that "batleground", to me, i see the PvE world as instanced content
I plan to stay 90% of the game in character creation, which really makes the game a screen-saver to me. See what I did there.
(Tongue-in-cheek)
I could even say GW2 isnt a game, but a art intervention on the player's computer, but that isnt the focus of what i meant to say.
I can get to max level and have better gear just by doing WvWvW PvP and dont need to set a virtual foot in the PvE world. You may see the world PvP map as an instanced minor content, i dont.
Spawns multiple copies of itself to provide on-demand individual content for players, groups, or guilds.
Based on the above definition, the WvWvW 4-zone map is NOT an instanced area. It meets the first two criteria (sort of, since it resets after each two-week match I would think), but because there will only be a single map which will provide for ALL players to play together (no multiple copies), it is not instanced content. It's just a separate part of the shared world which provides players with tons of room to have a huge open-world PvP battle between three servers.
Spawns multiple copies of itself to provide on-demand individual content for players, groups, or guilds.
Based on the above definition, the WvWvW 4-zone map is NOT an instanced area. It meets the first two criteria (sort of, since it resets after each two-week match I would think), but because there will only be a single map which will provide for ALL players to play together (no multiple copies), it is not instanced content. It's just a separate part of the shared world which provides players with tons of room to have a huge open-world PvP battle between three servers.
That's just it. :P Not too much difference, overall... the game isn't perfect, but there aren't many competitors that are this good.
Change your thoughts and you change your world. -
Norman Vincent Peale
I was being sincere. And my challenge isn’t levied against GW2 only. My perception that Wintergrasp-like instanced battleground WvW PvP doesn’t make a game massively-multiplayer.
Why is WvWvW a instanced battleground and isnt the PvE world a huge instanced raid?
As i plan to stay 90% of the game in that "batleground", to me, i see the PvE world as instanced content
I plan to stay 90% of the game in character creation, which really makes the game a screen-saver to me. See what I did there.
(Tongue-in-cheek)
I could even say GW2 isnt a game, but a art intervention on the player's computer, but that isnt the focus of what i meant to say.
I can get to max level and have better gear just by doing WvWvW PvP and dont need to set a virtual foot in the PvE world. You may see the world PvP map as an instanced minor content, i dont.
This way you have fun doing what you want to.
Change your thoughts and you change your world. -
Norman Vincent Peale
I know for me that dynamic quests will be much more fun than static quests.
1. Dynamic Questing system.
2. Level scaling.
3. WvWvW PvP.
4. The 5 playable races.
5. The available professions.
6. No 'Holy Trinity'.
There is more but I got things to do.
1. Dynamic Questing system. Great! more MMOs need this! (old school mmoers did this by dragging large mobs into town)
2. Level scaling. I understand the griefing side to it and the casualness, but I think its mainly to compensate for a more linear-type game, basically giving the player more freedom to do whatever he/she wants but taking away from the idea of progression. Also semi-annual expansions will be needed to increase level caps etc like WoW.
3. WvWvW PvP is great. Anything massive is awesome however it resets every 2 weeks and isnt persistent like Dark Ages of Camelot. This will probably add some sort of repetitiveness to the game like Warhammer Onlines Tug-of-war type Massive PvP. The experience however, will not be forgotten!
4. The 5 playable races. Standard if not a little below the norm of 8-10 races. However races dont matter much except to fit players criteria and in GW2 case, a singleplayer storyline. If they named the races small to large, theyd still produce the same results with less immsersiveness.
5. The available professions. I know most characters now are going to have independent roles yet can still all be supportive of one another. This can work and is less traditional and you no longer need to really depend on others. Though depending on others is actually quite fun sometimes because its a whole social aspect of an MMO.
6. No 'Holy Trinity'. Like I said above, this can work in GW2 and theyll make it work. I like the idea that everyone can somewhat take care of themselves, however Id like to see it more done in a unique way. Like one class can only heal himself by draining others, or one guy can only heal OUT of combat, or one guy can only heal from his spawned equipment etc. I dont like this idea of instant buttons that give players instant big heals. Its fun to depend on team work and not the type of team work from games like L4D.
Overrall GW2 is an arena-type MMO taking the basic tone of WoW and DAOC and making ts own tune. I think its over-hyped and will require expansions like in GW1 to keep players leveling more so they can be that much better FIRST. There will be map-packs like in FPS's, and DLC up the anal for GW2. It is a great business model and they will succeed MASSIVELY but not as big as WoW (no one can beat WoWs debut)
If you read about the Bartle's Test of player styles (4 general ones). GW2 is great for the Achiever and Socializer while not leaving the door completely shut on the Explorer (with level scaling). The true Killer will need a PvP server or else he will not play. Remember, you can all be a little of each playstyle, but your #1 play style is what you are at the core!
Im not sure if WvWvW could be considered an instance. When there are too many players that want to go to WvWvW, what will happen? Will they join a queue untill someone leaves? Or does a copy of the WvWvW maps get created for them to play in? If yes on any of those two questions, then it is instanced imo.
If no on both questions, then its not an instance imo.
The size of the maps or if you can enter those zones without being grouped with others do not make it an instance or not. Other games have huge instances or so called contested dungeons, where more then one group can enter the same instance.
Ok. I'll bite. What is specifically massively-multiplayer about it. . .
. . .whats so massively-multiplayer about it that involves 100's of player cooperating and competing simultaneously, in a coordinated game-play means toward a collectively entertaining game-play accomplishment or community-meaningful endeavor.
What? Other than a server being able to host 100's of players simultaneoulsy while players accomplish solo, party-based pick-up or dungeon team-based cooperative dungeons.
Ok I'll bite on yours.
Everything about the game and its devs philosophy is to steer players towards playing together. The WvW PvP is going to have a rewards system that benefits your server if you win. While this won't make people play cooperatively, it is a tool and incentive put in place to encourage it. the PvE is set up to not force grouping, while encouraging it through scaling and rewarding players for playing together by making it less competitive. No longer will I see other players and be annoyed because they are killing mobs I want. Another tool set in place to encourage playing together. So much more but I don't want a large wall for you to read through so I'll settle for those two examples.
For the red I am getting the feeling you think forced grouping is what determines wether a game is a MMO or not? I don't agree if that is the case but maybe that one will boil down to a difference of opinions. I think what you say here means that a majority of so called MMO's out there aren't actually MMO's either? If that is what you meant by that statement.
The game is an open world game where a massive number of players will be interacting with one another and that, to me, is the main thing that makes a game a MMO . The first wasn't but GW2 will be.
He doesn't seem to just think that forced grouping is what makes an mmo he thinks that forced "100s" of players grouping/cooperating is an mmo. Using his post you quoted, there has never been an mmo released.
Edit: Maybe DAOC back in the day qualified? But though the game still offers those things, its no longer an mmo because 100s of people don't do those things he wants.
I have one more reason to consider GW2....I think this is the longest non-flame mature forum discussion I have ever seen, and frankly if these are the people that will be buying the game, I hope I run into all of you in world so we can show them baddies whats what!
Safe travels and truely hope that those here wont be the exception to the rule.
All Murlocs must die horrible, painful, bloody deaths!
Overrall GW2 is an arena-type MMO taking the basic tone of WoW and DAOC and making ts own tune. I think its over-hyped and will require expansions like in GW1 to keep players leveling more so they can be that much better FIRST. There will be map-packs like in FPS's, and DLC up the anal for GW2. It is a great business model and they will succeed MASSIVELY but not as big as WoW (no one can beat WoWs debut)
...
Got anything specific in mind when you are thinking GW2 will deliver less than people expect? I assume that's what you mean by overhype.
And why will it "require expansions to keep people leveling"? Thought it wasn't as focused on progression as your standard MMO.
Charr: Outta my way. Human: What's your problem? Charr: Your thin skin.
2. Auto side kicking (or whatever it's called) that delevels me when I play with friends (my friends are always behind in levels). This means that I can stick to one character if I wish instead of having a ton of alts around.
3. Dynamic Events - not just because they scale and cycle but because this means when I group up with friends we don't have to spend wasted time making sure we all have the same quests and especially don't have to catch anyone up in quest chains.
4. Multiple kinds of PVP. Personally I'm no good with the Esports kind, but several of our group literally salivate when they talk about this aspect of GW2. Me, I can see me jumping in and out of WvWvW depending on what's happening each cycle. What I really like is the variety of options.
5. Crafting - still want more info on this but from what I've seen so far I'm looking forward to it.
What's amazing about this list is that Crafting is last - usually it's first.
2. Auto side kicking (or whatever it's called) that delevels me when I play with friends (my friends are always behind in levels). This means that I can stick to one character if I wish instead of having a ton of alts around.
3. Dynamic Events - not just because they scale and cycle but because this means when I group up with friends we don't have to spend wasted time making sure we all have the same quests and especially don't have to catch anyone up in quest chains.
4. Multiple kinds of PVP. Personally I'm no good with the Esports kind, but several of our group literally salivate when they talk about this aspect of GW2. Me, I can see me jumping in and out of WvWvW depending on what's happening each cycle. What I really like is the variety of options.
5. Crafting - still want more info on this but from what I've seen so far I'm looking forward to it.
What's amazing about this list is that Crafting is last - usually it's first.
Everyone wants a lot of things out of games, hopefully they can deliver alot of them.
Change your thoughts and you change your world. -
Norman Vincent Peale
Comments
I could even say GW2 isnt a game, but a art intervention on the player's computer, but that isnt the focus of what i meant to say.
I can get to max level and have better gear just by doing WvWvW PvP and dont need to set a virtual foot in the PvE world. You may see the world PvP map as an instanced minor content, i dont.
To me, an instanced area is one that is
Separated from the persistent, shared world
Only exists for as long as it is in use
Spawns multiple copies of itself to provide on-demand individual content for players, groups, or guilds.
Based on the above definition, the WvWvW 4-zone map is NOT an instanced area. It meets the first two criteria (sort of, since it resets after each two-week match I would think), but because there will only be a single map which will provide for ALL players to play together (no multiple copies), it is not instanced content. It's just a separate part of the shared world which provides players with tons of room to have a huge open-world PvP battle between three servers.
That's just it. :P Not too much difference, overall... the game isn't perfect, but there aren't many competitors that are this good.
This way you have fun doing what you want to.
1. Dynamic Questing system. Great! more MMOs need this! (old school mmoers did this by dragging large mobs into town)
2. Level scaling. I understand the griefing side to it and the casualness, but I think its mainly to compensate for a more linear-type game, basically giving the player more freedom to do whatever he/she wants but taking away from the idea of progression. Also semi-annual expansions will be needed to increase level caps etc like WoW.
3. WvWvW PvP is great. Anything massive is awesome however it resets every 2 weeks and isnt persistent like Dark Ages of Camelot. This will probably add some sort of repetitiveness to the game like Warhammer Onlines Tug-of-war type Massive PvP. The experience however, will not be forgotten!
4. The 5 playable races. Standard if not a little below the norm of 8-10 races. However races dont matter much except to fit players criteria and in GW2 case, a singleplayer storyline. If they named the races small to large, theyd still produce the same results with less immsersiveness.
5. The available professions. I know most characters now are going to have independent roles yet can still all be supportive of one another. This can work and is less traditional and you no longer need to really depend on others. Though depending on others is actually quite fun sometimes because its a whole social aspect of an MMO.
6. No 'Holy Trinity'. Like I said above, this can work in GW2 and theyll make it work. I like the idea that everyone can somewhat take care of themselves, however Id like to see it more done in a unique way. Like one class can only heal himself by draining others, or one guy can only heal OUT of combat, or one guy can only heal from his spawned equipment etc. I dont like this idea of instant buttons that give players instant big heals. Its fun to depend on team work and not the type of team work from games like L4D.
Overrall GW2 is an arena-type MMO taking the basic tone of WoW and DAOC and making ts own tune. I think its over-hyped and will require expansions like in GW1 to keep players leveling more so they can be that much better FIRST. There will be map-packs like in FPS's, and DLC up the anal for GW2. It is a great business model and they will succeed MASSIVELY but not as big as WoW (no one can beat WoWs debut)
If you read about the Bartle's Test of player styles (4 general ones). GW2 is great for the Achiever and Socializer while not leaving the door completely shut on the Explorer (with level scaling). The true Killer will need a PvP server or else he will not play. Remember, you can all be a little of each playstyle, but your #1 play style is what you are at the core!
TAKE THE BARTLE TEST HERE
edited for typos..
Im not sure if WvWvW could be considered an instance. When there are too many players that want to go to WvWvW, what will happen? Will they join a queue untill someone leaves? Or does a copy of the WvWvW maps get created for them to play in? If yes on any of those two questions, then it is instanced imo.
If no on both questions, then its not an instance imo.
The size of the maps or if you can enter those zones without being grouped with others do not make it an instance or not. Other games have huge instances or so called contested dungeons, where more then one group can enter the same instance.
He doesn't seem to just think that forced grouping is what makes an mmo he thinks that forced "100s" of players grouping/cooperating is an mmo. Using his post you quoted, there has never been an mmo released.
Edit: Maybe DAOC back in the day qualified? But though the game still offers those things, its no longer an mmo because 100s of people don't do those things he wants.
I have one more reason to consider GW2....I think this is the longest non-flame mature forum discussion I have ever seen, and frankly if these are the people that will be buying the game, I hope I run into all of you in world so we can show them baddies whats what!
Safe travels and truely hope that those here wont be the exception to the rule.
All Murlocs must die horrible, painful, bloody deaths!
Got anything specific in mind when you are thinking GW2 will deliver less than people expect? I assume that's what you mean by overhype.
And why will it "require expansions to keep people leveling"? Thought it wasn't as focused on progression as your standard MMO.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
The expansions of GW1 didn't increase the level cap.
My personal 5:
1. B2P - means everyone in our group can play
2. Auto side kicking (or whatever it's called) that delevels me when I play with friends (my friends are always behind in levels). This means that I can stick to one character if I wish instead of having a ton of alts around.
3. Dynamic Events - not just because they scale and cycle but because this means when I group up with friends we don't have to spend wasted time making sure we all have the same quests and especially don't have to catch anyone up in quest chains.
4. Multiple kinds of PVP. Personally I'm no good with the Esports kind, but several of our group literally salivate when they talk about this aspect of GW2. Me, I can see me jumping in and out of WvWvW depending on what's happening each cycle. What I really like is the variety of options.
5. Crafting - still want more info on this but from what I've seen so far I'm looking forward to it.
What's amazing about this list is that Crafting is last - usually it's first.
Everyone wants a lot of things out of games, hopefully they can deliver alot of them.