I'm getting the game Sunday, but I played in beta.
If you ask me, the game is great; most people on this website won't like it because it's not open-world PVP/sandbox where they can kill you and take your shit instead of work for it. Either that or they expected the mother of all MMOs to come out and when it didn't, because that's impossible, they got pissed.
Just cause Skyrim is an RPG doesn't mean it plays the same as other RPGs. Final Fantasy is an RPG but it doesn't play like Skyrim.
Out of all the RPG's out there IMO Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind are the closest single-player games you'll get to a themepark MMO experience. Sure they play differently in terms of combat, and options to the player ( stealing, killing, jail, etc). In a round about way though TES games are basically the shy mans MMO. All IMO of course...
umm what?! seriously? closest to maybe sandbox but not themepark
Yep, seriously, that is my opinion. I'm not the first to say that not by a long shot, hell that desciption is what turned me on to Morrowind in the first place, it was dubbed the shy-mans MMO in a mag I read back then .
I don't see how TES would be considered a sandbox? Where's the sand?
its a sandbox.
Sandbox = non-linear gameplay
its all what sandbox means.
Many "sandbox fans" would disagree due to the fact that all you're doing is questing, the same types of quests we have in MMO's, there are just more of them and you get to pick and choose a bit.
I don't care what sandbox "fans" think, thats the official definition of it.
Thats how its taught in game-design schools.
So with that definition, SWTOR is a sandbox. I can lvl to cap with out doing a single quest. I can do PvP and space combat and mob grinding in any order I want.
The sandbox term was around long before MMO's or game design schools.
By your argument no sandbox game exists on this planet.
and moment you realize just how copy paste everything is.. i played as empire in beta, and republic for first couple days of release,zones felt new.. untill i reached third planet.. same planet story, same theme, i couldnt feel i did this.. then i went to narshadar (4th planet ) oh my , that was even more copy paste
then tatoine, now at that point quests were exactly same as for empire. i might been killing droids instead of thugs, for one quest.. or mandaliorans instead of droids, but it didnt change the fact it was exactly the same
at that point i realized there is barely even 2 faction replayability.
That is really disapointing to hear given that the "Story" was the main focus apperently for the developers at the expence of any other innovations.
I'm getting the game Sunday, but I played in beta.
If you ask me, the game is great; most people on this website won't like it because it's not open-world PVP/sandbox where they can kill you and take your shit instead of work for it. Either that or they expected the mother of all MMOs to come out and when it didn't, because that's impossible, they got pissed.
haha! Funniest reason I heard so far for why some people, like me, dont like this game.
I mean is that even possible in any MMORPG? Maybe only Eve I guess.
I'm getting the game Sunday, but I played in beta.
If you ask me, the game is great; most people on this website won't like it because it's not open-world PVP/sandbox where they can kill you and take your shit instead of work for it. Either that or they expected the mother of all MMOs to come out and when it didn't, because that's impossible, they got pissed.
haha! Funniest reason I heard so far for why some people, like me, dont like this game.
I mean is that even possible in any MMORPG? Maybe only Eve I guess.
EvE, Darkfall, Perpetuum and UO afaik. Maybe there are some other obscure ones tho.
I'm getting the game Sunday, but I played in beta.
If you ask me, the game is great; most people on this website won't like it because it's not open-world PVP/sandbox where they can kill you and take your shit instead of work for it. Either that or they expected the mother of all MMOs to come out and when it didn't, because that's impossible, they got pissed.
So tired of this misconception. Open pvp does not equal sandbox but can be a part of it, neither has to equal ffa.
Fine, SWTOR is a sandbox then lol. I think most people use the term sandbox to describe a game that gives you the ability to actually materially change or truely affect the world itself with no resets. e.g. I cut down a tree then player B comes by and there is no tree there.
I think the term "Sandbox" is used (maybe incorrectly) as the opposite to themepark where you cannot affect the world in any meaningful way.
Fine, SWTOR is a sandbox then lol. I think most people use the term sandbox to describe a game that gives you the ability to actually materially change or truely affect the world itself with no resets. e.g. I cut down a tree then player B comes by and there is no tree there.
I think the term "Sandbox" is used (maybe incorrectly) as the opposite to themepark where you cannot affect the world in any meaningful way.
Now people seem to not understand what non-linear gameplay means.
So tired of this misconception. Open pvp does not equal sandbox but can be a part of it, neither has to equal ffa.
Oop, be careful. You may inadvertantly launch today's second "but is it really a REAL sandbox" argument.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'd say about 50% of the people who says it's a bad game are just tired of click n wait gameplay or mmorpgs overall. 30% are people who don't like story based games and just wants to skip past the story part and play the game. 20% haven't played the game.
The game isn't bad it's just that some people demand too much in mmorpgs these days, have too high expectations even though their expectations has been clarified aren't going to be lived up to several imes.
You're mixing concepts up. Change just for the hell of it is unnecessary. These models are still considered fun and the majority enjoys them. That is why expecting TOR to pull away from a fun and successful model is no only unrealisitc bur extremely illogical.
I actually think that the community by and large IS getting tired of this model. All the negativity here is just a manifestation of that. Now this does not mean that SWTOR will flop, it just means that the era may be coming to an end.
As I said before, the vocal minority is what you see as proclaimers of change. The vast majority cares not for these things as seen through numbers alone. In the end, such a small fragment of "activists" is neglible for the bigger picture of the market.
Has this seriously got to the point where we are arguing AGAINST innovation?
I will concede that just radically changing things for no purpose isn't always the best idea. And you definitely SHOULD learn from and be inspired by what has occured in the past. But if no one ever innovated, we would all be playing a very graphically advanced version of Pong. Innovation is GOOD, not bad. You shouldn't be arguing against it.
I think the reason a lot of people attack SWTOR for not innovating, is because it still carries many of the PROBLEMS that WoW has without trying to change them. For example:
1. I still have to watch other players doing the exact same quests I'm doing.
2. I still can't group with my RL friends because we will almost always be different levels.
3. I still have difficulty just grouping with people I meet while questing because we are usually on different quests.
4. I still compete with players for quest MOBs....
...
THIS is why people are aggravated. These are the problems of 2004, and they still haven't been fixed.
I would never argue against innovation, but I would argue that something does not have to be innovative to be fun
I agree, something does not necessarily have to be innovative in order to be fun.
But in contrast, something can be "not fun" by virtue of being "not innovative."
It's all situational and greatly depends upon the specifics of the game, the history of games like it, and the specific player.
SWTOR is getting flak because most people here are veteran gamers that have been playing a very similar game concept since 2004. In short, many of us are just tired of it and that is understandable. So for many of us, the lack of innovation is directly leading to "not fun."
Of course, I am sure that there are others that are not tired of the WoW concept and are having fun...it's all relative.
True and their is nothing wrong with that. At one time I loved FPS's now they bore me to tears. Does that mean they all suck? of coarse not.
Skyrim is a wonderful free roaming RPG. I played free roaming RPG's back in the early 80's watching stick men walking across the screen. The only real innovations is modern day graphics, real time combat, physics, VO instead of text and the sophistication of the quest's. At the core they are the same games and I do the same things in them.
Games are no different then movies,books and music when it comes down to this point. "Its all been done before" Once in a while, maybe once in a decade... some one will come up with something that is truly innovative and for the next decade everyone will copy it.
Is SWTOR a good game? most definatley. Is it innovative? I would say no.
I am not a TOR fan, I am a game's fan. I used to sit for hours infront of a 120lb computer with a cassette drive and play text RPG's. If some one would remake a game like "Bedlam" which is from the late 70's with today's technology It would be quite an innovative game by the comments I see thrown around this site.
Just cause Skyrim is an RPG doesn't mean it plays the same as other RPGs. Final Fantasy is an RPG but it doesn't play like Skyrim.
Out of all the RPG's out there IMO Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind are the closest single-player games you'll get to a themepark MMO experience. Sure they play differently in terms of combat, and options to the player ( stealing, killing, jail, etc). In a round about way though TES games are basically the shy mans MMO. All IMO of course...
umm what?! seriously? closest to maybe sandbox but not themepark
Yep, seriously, that is my opinion. I'm not the first to say that not by a long shot, hell that desciption is what turned me on to Morrowind in the first place, it was dubbed the shy-mans MMO in a mag I read back then .
I don't see how TES would be considered a sandbox? Where's the sand?
its a sandbox.
Sandbox = non-linear gameplay
its all what sandbox means.
Many "sandbox fans" would disagree due to the fact that all you're doing is questing, the same types of quests we have in MMO's, there are just more of them and you get to pick and choose a bit.
I don't care what sandbox "fans" think, thats the official definition of it.
Thats how its taught in game-design schools.
So with that definition, SWTOR is a sandbox. I can lvl to cap with out doing a single quest. I can do PvP and space combat and mob grinding in any order I want.
The sandbox term was around long before MMO's or game design schools.
By your argument no sandbox game exists on this planet.
By definition and not my definition a sand box is an open slate where you are free to build as you wish, I first saw the term used in games back in the 80's with games such as "Rail Road Tycoon" and many City Builder's
What you refer to as Sandbox was coined as "Free Roaming" back then
I knew it wouldnt be a great game since its based off Star Wars and such but is the gameplay and PvP really as bad as people make it out to be?
"Bad" is relative.
So relative to what?
Id say its bad, relative to it coming from a AAA publisher, a AAA studio, and around 100 million backing the game in dev cost.
But your milage may vary.
IMHO, it's the worst AAA MMO since WAR, unless you count APB. Yes, I'm saying that every other major MMO of the past few years has been better - but, some people even liked WAR and APB, so yeah..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Just cause Skyrim is an RPG doesn't mean it plays the same as other RPGs. Final Fantasy is an RPG but it doesn't play like Skyrim.
Out of all the RPG's out there IMO Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind are the closest single-player games you'll get to a themepark MMO experience. Sure they play differently in terms of combat, and options to the player ( stealing, killing, jail, etc). In a round about way though TES games are basically the shy mans MMO. All IMO of course...
umm what?! seriously? closest to maybe sandbox but not themepark
Yep, seriously, that is my opinion. I'm not the first to say that not by a long shot, hell that desciption is what turned me on to Morrowind in the first place, it was dubbed the shy-mans MMO in a mag I read back then .
I don't see how TES would be considered a sandbox? Where's the sand?
its a sandbox.
Sandbox = non-linear gameplay
its all what sandbox means.
Many "sandbox fans" would disagree due to the fact that all you're doing is questing, the same types of quests we have in MMO's, there are just more of them and you get to pick and choose a bit.
I don't care what sandbox "fans" think, thats the official definition of it.
Thats how its taught in game-design schools.
So with that definition, SWTOR is a sandbox. I can lvl to cap with out doing a single quest. I can do PvP and space combat and mob grinding in any order I want.
The sandbox term was around long before MMO's or game design schools.
By your argument no sandbox game exists on this planet.
By definition and not my definition a sand box is an open slate where you are free to build as you wish, I first saw the term used in games back in the 80's with games such as "Rail Road Tycoon" and many City Builder's
What you refer to as Sandbox was coined as "Free Roaming" back then
"A sandbox mode is an option in otherwise goal-oriented games and should be distinguished from open-ended games with no objectives such as SimCity."
Just cause Skyrim is an RPG doesn't mean it plays the same as other RPGs. Final Fantasy is an RPG but it doesn't play like Skyrim.
Out of all the RPG's out there IMO Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind are the closest single-player games you'll get to a themepark MMO experience. Sure they play differently in terms of combat, and options to the player ( stealing, killing, jail, etc). In a round about way though TES games are basically the shy mans MMO. All IMO of course...
umm what?! seriously? closest to maybe sandbox but not themepark
Yep, seriously, that is my opinion. I'm not the first to say that not by a long shot, hell that desciption is what turned me on to Morrowind in the first place, it was dubbed the shy-mans MMO in a mag I read back then .
I don't see how TES would be considered a sandbox? Where's the sand?
its a sandbox.
Sandbox = non-linear gameplay
its all what sandbox means.
Many "sandbox fans" would disagree due to the fact that all you're doing is questing, the same types of quests we have in MMO's, there are just more of them and you get to pick and choose a bit.
I don't care what sandbox "fans" think, thats the official definition of it.
Thats how its taught in game-design schools.
So with that definition, SWTOR is a sandbox. I can lvl to cap with out doing a single quest. I can do PvP and space combat and mob grinding in any order I want.
The sandbox term was around long before MMO's or game design schools.
By your argument no sandbox game exists on this planet.
By definition and not my definition a sand box is an open slate where you are free to build as you wish, I first saw the term used in games back in the 80's with games such as "Rail Road Tycoon" and many City Builder's
What you refer to as Sandbox was coined as "Free Roaming" back then
"A sandbox mode is an option in otherwise goal-oriented games and should be distinguished from open-ended games with no objectives such as SimCity."
It's a really great MMO. Like any game it has some flaws, but in this case they are few and minor. Not something that detracts from all the really awesome stuff.
It's a really great MMO. Like any game it has some flaws, but in this case they are few and minor. Not something that detracts from all the really awesome stuff.
Just because I feel like 'trolling' I guess or being critical, mind defining what that 'awesome stuff' is? Outside the bigger story focus, I just didn't see anything that makes me turn my head and go "oh, original", curious as to what your defining as awesome.
It's a really great MMO. Like any game it has some flaws, but in this case they are few and minor. Not something that detracts from all the really awesome stuff.
Just because I feel like 'trolling' I guess or being critical, mind defining what that 'awesome stuff' is? Outside the bigger story focus, I just didn't see anything that makes me turn my head and go "oh, original", curious as to what your defining as awesome.
Its a full MMO with storyline added on to it. Better than Rift, batter than cataclysm, not as good as Vanilla WoW.
No macros and limited UI customization are odd but thats minor stuff that will be changed anyway (at least the UI, which isnt as bad as people want you to think)
Its a full MMO with storyline added on to it. Better than Rift, batter than cataclysm, not as good as Vanilla WoW.
No macros and limited UI customization are odd but thats minor stuff that will be changed anyway (at least the UI, which isnt as bad as people want you to think)
Some of us actually gave our opinions of it refel;ected in many replies here a long time ago. But hey, try itfor yourself (by paying for it), and if you do not like it (sorry no refunds).
Way to go.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
It's a really great MMO. Like any game it has some flaws, but in this case they are few and minor. Not something that detracts from all the really awesome stuff.
Just because I feel like 'trolling' I guess or being critical, mind defining what that 'awesome stuff' is? Outside the bigger story focus, I just didn't see anything that makes me turn my head and go "oh, original", curious as to what your defining as awesome.
so to you... the only thing that can be described as awesome is something that is original. those are YOUR words. awesome = original....
voice over, companion system, story focus, actual choices that shape your character, mod system for gear.... all are integral parts of the game, and all are fairly original for MMOs.
your correlation between awesome and original is idiotic however, but that is beside the fact.
Comments
I'm getting the game Sunday, but I played in beta.
If you ask me, the game is great; most people on this website won't like it because it's not open-world PVP/sandbox where they can kill you and take your shit instead of work for it. Either that or they expected the mother of all MMOs to come out and when it didn't, because that's impossible, they got pissed.
By your argument no sandbox game exists on this planet.
That is really disapointing to hear given that the "Story" was the main focus apperently for the developers at the expence of any other innovations.
haha! Funniest reason I heard so far for why some people, like me, dont like this game.
I mean is that even possible in any MMORPG? Maybe only Eve I guess.
My gaming blog
EvE, Darkfall, Perpetuum and UO afaik. Maybe there are some other obscure ones tho.
So tired of this misconception. Open pvp does not equal sandbox but can be a part of it, neither has to equal ffa.
Fine, SWTOR is a sandbox then lol. I think most people use the term sandbox to describe a game that gives you the ability to actually materially change or truely affect the world itself with no resets. e.g. I cut down a tree then player B comes by and there is no tree there.
I think the term "Sandbox" is used (maybe incorrectly) as the opposite to themepark where you cannot affect the world in any meaningful way.
Now people seem to not understand what non-linear gameplay means.
Oop, be careful. You may inadvertantly launch today's second "but is it really a REAL sandbox" argument.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'd say about 50% of the people who says it's a bad game are just tired of click n wait gameplay or mmorpgs overall. 30% are people who don't like story based games and just wants to skip past the story part and play the game. 20% haven't played the game.
The game isn't bad it's just that some people demand too much in mmorpgs these days, have too high expectations even though their expectations has been clarified aren't going to be lived up to several imes.
The people likeing the game is playing it, the people dislikeing it is posting on the forums. Nuf said.
I actually think that the community by and large IS getting tired of this model. All the negativity here is just a manifestation of that. Now this does not mean that SWTOR will flop, it just means that the era may be coming to an end.
As I said before, the vocal minority is what you see as proclaimers of change. The vast majority cares not for these things as seen through numbers alone. In the end, such a small fragment of "activists" is neglible for the bigger picture of the market.True and their is nothing wrong with that. At one time I loved FPS's now they bore me to tears. Does that mean they all suck? of coarse not.
Skyrim is a wonderful free roaming RPG. I played free roaming RPG's back in the early 80's watching stick men walking across the screen. The only real innovations is modern day graphics, real time combat, physics, VO instead of text and the sophistication of the quest's. At the core they are the same games and I do the same things in them.
Games are no different then movies,books and music when it comes down to this point. "Its all been done before" Once in a while, maybe once in a decade... some one will come up with something that is truly innovative and for the next decade everyone will copy it.
Is SWTOR a good game? most definatley. Is it innovative? I would say no.
I am not a TOR fan, I am a game's fan. I used to sit for hours infront of a 120lb computer with a cassette drive and play text RPG's. If some one would remake a game like "Bedlam" which is from the late 70's with today's technology It would be quite an innovative game by the comments I see thrown around this site.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
By definition and not my definition a sand box is an open slate where you are free to build as you wish, I first saw the term used in games back in the 80's with games such as "Rail Road Tycoon" and many City Builder's
What you refer to as Sandbox was coined as "Free Roaming" back then
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
IMHO, it's the worst AAA MMO since WAR, unless you count APB. Yes, I'm saying that every other major MMO of the past few years has been better - but, some people even liked WAR and APB, so yeah..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
"A sandbox mode is an option in otherwise goal-oriented games and should be distinguished from open-ended games with no objectives such as SimCity."
Emphasis added by me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay
"Back then" was back then.
"Back then", "gay" was a derogatory term.
The times they are a'changin'
At not for the better it seems
cheers
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
It's a really great MMO. Like any game it has some flaws, but in this case they are few and minor. Not something that detracts from all the really awesome stuff.
Just because I feel like 'trolling' I guess or being critical, mind defining what that 'awesome stuff' is? Outside the bigger story focus, I just didn't see anything that makes me turn my head and go "oh, original", curious as to what your defining as awesome.
An actual storyline.
Its a full MMO with storyline added on to it. Better than Rift, batter than cataclysm, not as good as Vanilla WoW.
No macros and limited UI customization are odd but thats minor stuff that will be changed anyway (at least the UI, which isnt as bad as people want you to think)
I do hope they keep macro's out of it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Some of us actually gave our opinions of it refel;ected in many replies here a long time ago. But hey, try itfor yourself (by paying for it), and if you do not like it (sorry no refunds).
Way to go.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
so to you... the only thing that can be described as awesome is something that is original. those are YOUR words. awesome = original....
voice over, companion system, story focus, actual choices that shape your character, mod system for gear.... all are integral parts of the game, and all are fairly original for MMOs.
your correlation between awesome and original is idiotic however, but that is beside the fact.
Yes its awefull i have never played it but all the topics and videos ive seenso far i can make my own review that say SWTOR is 6/10:P
But i never played the game so don't take it serieus PLS:)
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