If I were to have my RL mmo friends over to watch this game for five minutes, they would probably say they don't like it. At least from a graphics point of view......Understand I'm only basing all this from YouTube videos, and we all know how low quality they are, often even on HD quality.
I'm not sure I've actually seen a gameplay video yet that wasn't someone using a video camera pointed at a screen, so the quality of the graphics is going to appear deceptive.
Saying that, I like you am not worried about the graphics. The actual gameplay however, does look awesome and I can't wait to get my hands on it!
I've not watched the game as good as I would like. HOWEVER I did already see all of the above videos.
To me they still look like Water color pastels, and not my style.
I'm in it for gameplay anyway, and still looking foward to GW2.
You're confusing graphics with art style.
The graphics are fine for an MMORPG, it has... y'know, lighting, and polygons and all that stuff you expect out of graphics. Fairly good MMORPG graphics, at that.
Art style? That's a matter of taste. Some people will like it, some won't. That applies to every game ever.
Like I said the cutesy graphics are not a gamebreaker. Even no graphics is not a gamebreaker (I love roguelikes for instance). But I also listed in a previous post why I am suspicious of the dynamic events, no holy-trinity, and no subscription fee for GW2 which I thought were the main reasons for the hype.
So, other than dynamic events, no holy trinity, and no subscription fee, what am I missing that is generating all this hype?
I'm really not a troll as, like I said, I will be buying and playing GW2 despite my doubts. Maybe posting doubts before a release is sort of therapy for me as I pretty much always buy into the hype eventually LOL.
Okay, off the top of my head, in no particular order, these are the features that appeal to me in GW2 (and which appear in no other MMO in their entirety):
* a graphical style that appeals to me
I definately do not like the art style. I prefer a gritty style. And if it chooses a cartoony style like GW2 then I prefer it without cutesy character like the Asura. Asura race might as well be hanging out in pokemon world. But in the end I can deal with any art style if the gameplay is good.
* no holy trinity
Holy trinity has never really been a PVP issue (more of a 2 diminsional not 3 dimensional issue for PVP. More of a helaer plus dps/tank combos). But even in PVE does getting rid of the holy trinity simply mean that in GW2 everybody will be a combo healer/dps/tank? There is a risk of losing variety of gameplay and strategy. But to be honest I need to wait and see on this one, maybe they can get it to work. Definately not seeing how this is hype-worthy though.
* dynamic events (not merely the mechanic of the appearance of random events, but the jettisoning of "required" quest mobs, quest chains that must be shared step-by-step or repeated in order to participate on the same level as others, etc.)
This to me would be the most hypeworthy aspect, but this promise has been made before. The end result has always been very superficial and got old fast (see Rift and Red Dead). So will we just get lots of "Some monters are invading do you choose to stop them or not?" quest chains. For there to be a real variety there will need to be several hundred of these dynamic event chains that aren't just copy/pastes of the same thing basic theme. Again, I need to wait and see as I've seen this promise before and it ended up being very underwhelming. If they pull this off in a deep meaningful way then it will be a great thing and worthy of the hype.
* level-scaling (jettisoning the problem of outleveling friends/gaming partners, which is a very real problem for me and my gaming circle)
I don't like level scaling at all. Whats the point of progression if it doesnt really matter? Maybe some want to take the progression aspect of MMOs out but I enjoy that. I like the feeling of accomplishment in it.
* branching personal storyline (with objectives and choices that can be shared, and with credit/xp granted for helping someone else with their personal storyline)
Sounds a little like the Bioware model of RPG. Again it boils down to how complex and deep this is. Developers always promise these deep complex interactions yet they rarely turn out that way. Most Bioware games this branching storyline is much less complex than they pretend, and ends up being relatively superficial and linear.
* no subscription fee
Meaningless for me because gaming is dirt cheap in general when you are an adult with a job. Price of a game is less than half the cost of a typical night out with my family. I'd gladly pay $50+ a month for an epic groundbreaking game.
* phased harvesting nodes (no more node stealing/competition)
Not familiar with this feature. So this means a single node in the world can be harvested at the same time by everyone in the game? Don't think I would like that. I prefer a shared virtual world not lots of personal worlds. But I'm not a farmer in general so I'll leave it to the farmer fans how they would want this to work. I would think competition would be a good not a bad thing though.
* flat leveling curve
Not sure what this means. Does this mean you get to level cap quicker as later levels increase as fast as the early levels? Not sure how I feel on that. I think a game should never lose a sense of progression, but that doesn't have to be leveling. I like the feeling that I can still improve my character even late into the game. Maybe in GW2 it will be unlocking new abilities or something?
* active combat (I never want to play another game where I can't dodge an incoming fireball again)
I log probably as many hours in FPS games as I do MMOs, so I agree on liking the twitch aspect. But I don't think GW2 takes this nearly far enough. There is still target lock on if I'm not mistaken which is just easy mode in terms of skill. What I really would like is a AAA FPS MMO to really show off my skill. My twitch skills are strong especially for an oldster. For instance I'm usually upwards of 1.5 k/d in my FPSers
* teleportation via waypoints (no more "meet you in half an hour" when I only have half an hour to play)
I always have mixed feelings on fast travel. I like the idea of having to travel through the world as it makes it seem more epic, but it gets old fast especially late in the game. I also like matchmaking systems in games (such as groupfinders) but I know some in the MMO community hate both matchmaking systems and fast travel. I sort of am with you here I think they overall make the game more fun.
* highly varied character creation
I like highly varied character creation, but I also like highly complex characters. GW1 had a very varied character creation, but each character was very simplistic. 8 basic abilities is just way too simplistic for an MMO/RPG style game in my opinion. I'm sure GW2 will be more complex here though.
* no endless/exponential gear grind
Grinds are bad but progression is good. Got to find the right balance here for an MMO.
* underwater combat that makes sense (finally a game acknowledges that fireballs and bows don't work underwater)
Yeah that is always ridiculous. I also like games where different weapon types and damages affect things differently. I like the concept of blunt versus slash versus pierce for instance. I think most MMOs have really dumbed this down. Not sure how deep the GW2 system will be. Is there a complex armour/weapon/damage type system? You know, chain mail stops certain types of damage versus leather etc? Or certain monsters are susecptible to fire etc. Just makes you need to think a little more and gear a little more intelligently.
Each of the above are features I have pined for while playing other games. Whether or not you believe ANet are blowing smoke up our behinds, NO other game dev has claimed all of the above features. I've also had the opportunity to play the GW2 demo on two occasions, and while anything can change between now and launch, I have seen many of these features in play, or have seen them in play in GW1 so ANet's reputation speaks for itself for me.
That is why it doesn't matter to me what nifty features SWTOR or TSW or ArcheAge has to offer. I'm not looking for something merely "different" from WoW. I'm looking for the list above, and more, and that is why GW2 stands out for me.
Edit: And I don't know why I bother when cali59 has it all nicely wrapped up . But these are my thoughts FWIW.
My pessimistic responses to the features you are hyped about are listed above. And don't be offended because, like I posted earlier I'm pretty certain I will buy and try out this game regardless of my significant doubts.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
i know i talked some swuff about swtor but ill talk the almost same about gw2. it doesnt fill my quota i want roles but not so roleless like gw2 so i wont be playing this game either.
i know i talked some swuff about swtor but ill talk the almost same about gw2. it doesnt fill my quota i want roles but not so roleless like gw2 so i wont be playing this game either.
If you want roles than play your character one way. Simple at that.
My pessimistic responses to the features you are hyped about are listed above. And don't be offended because, like I posted earlier I'm pretty certain I will buy and try out this game regardless of my significant doubts.
I have no reason to be offended because we place different values on different features. It was not my intent to convince you of anything, for that very reason. If you liked the same things as me, we'd be the same person. My point is that it's strange to take the position that you "don't understand" why someone is hyped for a game, when they value different things than you do.
For example, you don't like level scaling. We will never see eye to eye on this feature. I could not, honestly, give a rat's patootie about progression. I do, however, care about playing MMOs with my husband and not having to be chained to him as we play through the exact same content so we don't out level each other, or be forced to power level one another or repeat content as we play through the game if he has time to play and I don't, or vice versa. That is an important feature to me, and I won't play a game that doesn't allow us to level scale, ever again. You don't like that. This is not an objectively good or bad feature. I have no reason to convince you to like it.
At any rate, we'll no doubt see each other in game.
Okay, off the top of my head, in no particular order, these are the features that appeal to me in GW2 (and which appear in no other MMO in their entirety):
* no holy trinity
Holy trinity has never really been a PVP issue (more of a 2 diminsional not 3 dimensional issue for PVP. More of a helaer plus dps/tank combos). But even in PVE does getting rid of the holy trinity simply mean that in GW2 everybody will be a combo healer/dps/tank? There is a risk of losing variety of gameplay and strategy. But to be honest I need to wait and see on this one, maybe they can get it to work. Definately not seeing how this is hype-worthy though.
With the limited skillbar, being able to do one thing means giving up the ability to do something else. You could pick a utility skill that buffs your damage (dps) or immobilizes a mob (control) or puts a regeneration boon on everyone in the party (support).
Also professions just play very differently. Look at the self heal in particular. It's not just a heal, it's got a secondary effect. A thief's heal might flip them backwards out of danger. A necromancer's heal might be a lifetapping pet they can sacrifice for a burst of healing. A warrior's heal might also give adrenaline, letting it be used offensively.
Dungeons will be about taking whatever 5 people you have and mixing and matching their collection of skills to survive an encounter.
* dynamic events (not merely the mechanic of the appearance of random events, but the jettisoning of "required" quest mobs, quest chains that must be shared step-by-step or repeated in order to participate on the same level as others, etc.)
This to me would be the most hypeworthy aspect, but this promise has been made before. The end result has always been very superficial and got old fast (see Rift and Red Dead). So will we just get lots of "Some monters are invading do you choose to stop them or not?" quest chains. For there to be a real variety there will need to be several hundred of these dynamic event chains that aren't just copy/pastes of the same thing basic theme. Again, I need to wait and see as I've seen this promise before and it ended up being very underwhelming. If they pull this off in a deep meaningful way then it will be a great thing and worthy of the hype.
A valid point. Just like quests can be done well or done badly, so too could DEs if developers are lazy or unimaginative. Here is a blog post about redesigning events you might be interested in. http://www.arena.net/blog/norn-week-designing-and-redesigning-events The bottom section talks about redesigning 4 of the same event into 4 different ones to fit the flavor.
* level-scaling (jettisoning the problem of outleveling friends/gaming partners, which is a very real problem for me and my gaming circle)
I don't like level scaling at all. Whats the point of progression if it doesnt really matter? Maybe some want to take the progression aspect of MMOs out but I enjoy that. I like the feeling of accomplishment in it.
It's not like Oblivion where the wolf that attacks you is always your level. There are zones and you don't automatically level up. Levels are still there, and there is still progression and accomplishment, but their importance is deemphasized. With automentoring down, you can still play with your friends.
* no subscription fee
Meaningless for me because gaming is dirt cheap in general when you are an adult with a job. Price of a game is less than half the cost of a typical night out with my family. I'd gladly pay $50+ a month for an epic groundbreaking game.
I think this is important. It's not just about the $15. It's about being able to try a bunch of games without putting down $15 for each of them. It's about more stable populations because people have no financial incentive to stop playing. It's about forcing the company to come out with quality expansions that people want to voluntarily purchase. For me, it's about being able to give the game as a gift to my brother who is going through a tough financial time without forcing a subscription on him.
* phased harvesting nodes (no more node stealing/competition)
Not familiar with this feature. So this means a single node in the world can be harvested at the same time by everyone in the game? Don't think I would like that. I prefer a shared virtual world not lots of personal worlds. But I'm not a farmer in general so I'll leave it to the farmer fans how they would want this to work. I would think competition would be a good not a bad thing though.
GW2 is really designed from the ground up to eliminate competition in the PVE world (DEs being communal, no factions, no mob tagging). The idea of everybody getting a hit off each node goes right along with this. A competitive system would be fine for some other game, but it's not what ArenaNet is trying to do.
* flat leveling curve
Not sure what this means. Does this mean you get to level cap quicker as later levels increase as fast as the early levels? Not sure how I feel on that. I think a game should never lose a sense of progression, but that doesn't have to be leveling. I like the feeling that I can still improve my character even late into the game. Maybe in GW2 it will be unlocking new abilities or something?
With GW2, there is a flat leveling curve in that it should only approach about 90 minutes to get a level. They don't want mandatory grinds in their game, only optional ones. There's still going to be advancement and progression, even late into the game just not vertical power progression. There's skills and traits to collect, achievements, titles, different types of gear or hard to obtain skins.
* active combat (I never want to play another game where I can't dodge an incoming fireball again)
I log probably as many hours in FPS games as I do MMOs, so I agree on liking the twitch aspect. But I don't think GW2 takes this nearly far enough. There is still target lock on if I'm not mistaken which is just easy mode in terms of skill. What I really would like is a AAA FPS MMO to really show off my skill. My twitch skills are strong especially for an oldster. For instance I'm usually upwards of 1.5 k/d in my FPSers
There's targeting, but there's also dodging. It's kind of a hybrid system. Your target can dodge an arrow but it could hit someone else instead. You can even use skills without any target and just Savage Leap forward for no reason.
ArenaNet is setting out to make a very casual friendly game. I think they want to make their combat more active, but not so active that it would be a turn off. I think wanting a more FPS style combat is perfectly fine and there should be games that carve out that niche.
* teleportation via waypoints (no more "meet you in half an hour" when I only have half an hour to play)
I always have mixed feelings on fast travel. I like the idea of having to travel through the world as it makes it seem more epic, but it gets old fast especially late in the game. I also like matchmaking systems in games (such as groupfinders) but I know some in the MMO community hate both matchmaking systems and fast travel. I sort of am with you here I think they overall make the game more fun.
I love fast travel. To me, GW1 is enormous and it SEEMS enormous even with the fast travel. You simply can't run anywhere without it taking forever.
I don't think there's any reason for matchmaking/groupfinding. The reason for them is because the open world is isolating, and you need specific classes to do dungeons. With GW2, the open world is designed to encourage socializing and you don't need classes to do dungeons. With GW2, make 100 friends, find any 4 who want to do a dungeon. Due to mentoring, sidekicking, and flat leveling curve, what level everyone is isn't even really an issue.
* highly varied character creation
I like highly varied character creation, but I also like highly complex characters. GW1 had a very varied character creation, but each character was very simplistic. 8 basic abilities is just way too simplistic for an MMO/RPG style game in my opinion. I'm sure GW2 will be more complex here though.
You had 8 skills at a time, but you had a choice of 1300 of them. GW1 WAS TOO COMPLEX. With dual classing, 1 elite skill (of 58 from two classes) and 7 nonelites (of ~204 for two classes), there are (if I'm doing my math correctly, and if I'm not, who cares), something like 152482271047920 possible ways to build you bar just for ONE dual class combination.
GW2 will give you more options during play (because each player will have access to 15+ skills and modify them with traits) instead of just 8, but it will be vastly LESS complex to balance because of the way weapon skills are tied together and no dual classing.
* underwater combat that makes sense (finally a game acknowledges that fireballs and bows don't work underwater)
Yeah that is always ridiculous. I also like games where different weapon types and damages affect things differently. I like the concept of blunt versus slash versus pierce for instance. I think most MMOs have really dumbed this down. Not sure how deep the GW2 system will be. Is there a complex armour/weapon/damage type system? You know, chain mail stops certain types of damage versus leather etc? Or certain monsters are susecptible to fire etc. Just makes you need to think a little more and gear a little more intelligently.
No, GW2 won't have something like this. What it does have is weapons that do different things allowing you to do different roles. You can choose a different weapon to combat your opponent's tactics, but not their armor.
My pessimistic responses to the features you are hyped about are listed above. And don't be offended because, like I posted earlier I'm pretty certain I will buy and try out this game regardless of my significant doubts.
Good
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I think this is important. It's not just about the $15. It's about being able to try a bunch of games without putting down $15 for each of them. It's about more stable populations because people have no financial incentive to stop playing. It's about forcing the company to come out with quality expansions that people want to voluntarily purchase. For me, it's about being able to give the game as a gift to my brother who is going through a tough financial time without forcing a subscription on him.
Not only that, from my perspective my time is of more value to me than my money, but I don't have a lot of time. So I would rather not pay for "timed" access to a game and would rather pay for content that I can keep and play at will. $15 is not much, but I don't pay $11 to go to a movie that may expire before I can actually go see it. I'll glady, however, spend $30-$60 on a DVD I can watch whenever I want.
This is another value argument, however, so mileages vary.
i know i talked some swuff about swtor but ill talk the almost same about gw2. it doesnt fill my quota i want roles but not so roleless like gw2 so i wont be playing this game either.
If you want roles than play your character one way. Simple at that.
Exactly. People who complain about there not being a traditional trinity but at the same time want complexity confuse me. The holy trinity is not complex, it never has been; it's more simplified than GW2's system if anything. In GW2 however, by what I understand, if you're a guardian your general ability to deflect damage and get between other players and mobs is your strength, but it doesn't mean that depending on skill placement in your action bars, you can't deal some heavy damage, and the same goes for other classes, ones of note being the Elementalist who will be able to take more damage in earth attunement, deal heavy damage in fire attunement, and support in water attunement but not at the same time, and obviously (unlike old MMOs) not at the expense of some kind of talent tree points. If you want to focus on being one type of role, the power is at your fingertips, not those of restrictive developers of the past, to pick and choose your own arsenal.
i know i talked some swuff about swtor but ill talk the almost same about gw2. it doesnt fill my quota i want roles but not so roleless like gw2 so i wont be playing this game either.
I had to re-read your statement cause it was so stupid I didn't think anyone could say something like this. The only people who dislike roles are people who can't keep themselves alive. A game where the only person you need to depend on for survival is yourself is good design. If you're skilled enough you won't ever take damage, won't need heals, etc. You can still specialize into a role sort of, but you would just be bringing your groups down by only being one role.
As for the OP, you don't see it cause you can't play it. Its that simple. The only way you can possibly "see" it, is to play GW and then imagine all the changes that GW2 is getting. Other than that, just sit and wait. Once you try the game you will be converted and start sining praises about the game.
Comments
You don't see it because it hasn't been released yet
==================================================
Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!
I've not watched the game as good as I would like. HOWEVER I did already see all of the above videos.
To me they still look like Water color pastels, and not my style.
I'm in it for gameplay anyway, and still looking foward to GW2.
You're confusing graphics with art style.
The graphics are fine for an MMORPG, it has... y'know, lighting, and polygons and all that stuff you expect out of graphics. Fairly good MMORPG graphics, at that.
Art style? That's a matter of taste. Some people will like it, some won't. That applies to every game ever.
My pessimistic responses to the features you are hyped about are listed above. And don't be offended because, like I posted earlier I'm pretty certain I will buy and try out this game regardless of my significant doubts.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
i know i talked some swuff about swtor but ill talk the almost same about gw2. it doesnt fill my quota i want roles but not so roleless like gw2 so i wont be playing this game either.
+5 internets...
////////////
function()
{
runescape != goodgame;
}
If you want roles than play your character one way. Simple at that.
I have no reason to be offended because we place different values on different features. It was not my intent to convince you of anything, for that very reason. If you liked the same things as me, we'd be the same person. My point is that it's strange to take the position that you "don't understand" why someone is hyped for a game, when they value different things than you do.
For example, you don't like level scaling. We will never see eye to eye on this feature. I could not, honestly, give a rat's patootie about progression. I do, however, care about playing MMOs with my husband and not having to be chained to him as we play through the exact same content so we don't out level each other, or be forced to power level one another or repeat content as we play through the game if he has time to play and I don't, or vice versa. That is an important feature to me, and I won't play a game that doesn't allow us to level scale, ever again. You don't like that. This is not an objectively good or bad feature. I have no reason to convince you to like it.
At any rate, we'll no doubt see each other in game.
Good
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Not only that, from my perspective my time is of more value to me than my money, but I don't have a lot of time. So I would rather not pay for "timed" access to a game and would rather pay for content that I can keep and play at will. $15 is not much, but I don't pay $11 to go to a movie that may expire before I can actually go see it. I'll glady, however, spend $30-$60 on a DVD I can watch whenever I want.
This is another value argument, however, so mileages vary.
Thanks Cali, and by proxy Gainesvilleg, for making me even more excited about the damn game. Argh.
Who knew such a thing was possible. Shame the added wait for the game will cause my excitement to wane, until the PAX East this March.
Exactly. People who complain about there not being a traditional trinity but at the same time want complexity confuse me. The holy trinity is not complex, it never has been; it's more simplified than GW2's system if anything. In GW2 however, by what I understand, if you're a guardian your general ability to deflect damage and get between other players and mobs is your strength, but it doesn't mean that depending on skill placement in your action bars, you can't deal some heavy damage, and the same goes for other classes, ones of note being the Elementalist who will be able to take more damage in earth attunement, deal heavy damage in fire attunement, and support in water attunement but not at the same time, and obviously (unlike old MMOs) not at the expense of some kind of talent tree points. If you want to focus on being one type of role, the power is at your fingertips, not those of restrictive developers of the past, to pick and choose your own arsenal.
I had to re-read your statement cause it was so stupid I didn't think anyone could say something like this. The only people who dislike roles are people who can't keep themselves alive. A game where the only person you need to depend on for survival is yourself is good design. If you're skilled enough you won't ever take damage, won't need heals, etc. You can still specialize into a role sort of, but you would just be bringing your groups down by only being one role.
As for the OP, you don't see it cause you can't play it. Its that simple. The only way you can possibly "see" it, is to play GW and then imagine all the changes that GW2 is getting. Other than that, just sit and wait. Once you try the game you will be converted and start sining praises about the game.