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The Tao of Arenanet
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Good OP Meowhead...
Hmmm, I think Slayers "Raining blood" will make fine combat music... Or Rammsteins "Ich will".
I understand all of the concepts of this game and I can see why people are gonna love the shit out of it. I'm glad this game is coming out and I think it will be a great new addition to the MMO scene. As a fan of the genre, I will buy it on principle. Knowing me, I will find something I enjoy about GW2 and have a good time. But for some reason, right now, nothing about this game is really grabbing me. I look forward to playing it though and appreciate all the hard work that Anet is putting into this game.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Lol Loke how did I know that you were a Metalhead? haha
OP great job, you eloquently put my thoughts on paper. Ok, maybe not my thoughts, but the more intelligent coherent versions. haha. Very good job, I 100% agree. The things that are coming have been due to this genre for years.
LOL..Tao = I don't like to pay a sub. I hope this game is the 2nd coming for all of you Occupy MMORPG'ers - I really do.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
+1 for nice write up. Lots of info and well thought out post.
+2 for the Priapism poster, for the nice laugh.
For others like me, i am a "Trust but verify" type guy too:) I have high hopes that i will have fun here. But i will wait till i get my hands on it before i get too excited. Just part of being a customer in MMO's anymore.
Thank you, I appreciate you reading further than Myria did.
Granted, you apparently only read half of point 1, but that's still more.
Also, I'm fascinated. I haven't been keeping up on politics well enough apparently, because I didn't realize that the whole Occupy platform was based off of 'We prefer to buy over rent' and 'We would like it if companies of their own free will decided to restructure their prices into a different format, and we would show our appreciation with financial support'.
I really thought it had more to do with socialism, rather than alternative non-subsidized pricing methods on MMORPGs.
I might be crazy! You probably read a lot more politics than I do, since you save so much time not reading on the forums.
Granted, you apparently only read half of point 1, but that's still more.
Also, I'm fascinated. I haven't been keeping up on politics well enough apparently, because I didn't realize that the whole Occupy platform was based off of 'We prefer to buy over rent' and 'We would like it if companies of their own free will decided to restructure their prices into a different format, and we would show our appreciation with financial support'.
I really thought it had more to do with socialism, rather than alternative non-subsidized pricing methods on MMORPGs.
I might be crazy! You probably read a lot more politics than I do, since you save so much time not reading on the forums.
haha well said!
I think he may have been poking fun at the Tao of a video game company. Which Im sure you did for fun anyway.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Great well-presented, informative post MH
Really good post, great read Meowhead, thank you.
Looking at Anet's philosophy and work practices makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside too
(It also makes me think I need to write that piece on hype and GW2 soon)
Another player of the demo here, the combat and pacing are smooth, it lives up to the claims made of it. The game has a fluid feeling in both combat and in the way DEs make the world feel, no quest markers to interrupt the fun of exploring or to stop you getting involved in whatever appeals to you in the way it appeals to you, it all flows in a way that makes the world feel alive with you firmly in it, which also makes it very accessible.
My short experience with the game has me firmly in the camp of believing Anet are walking the walk and bringing something fresh to the table.
The only thing is none of this is iteration.
Iteration from MW:
" 1 a : a procedure in which repetition of a sequence of operations yields results successively closer to a desired result "
Thats the closest definition that even hints at improvement.
The topics the OP addresses here range from rather to VASTY different from the current standard in triple A mmos.
Thus iteration is a inccorect term. As the steps are not being repeated. For the most part Rift and Swtor did a good deal of iteration.
Now to say any of this is innovative maybe a mistake. IF it sucks no one / very few will copy it and thus not very innovative (implies improvement) But all these are very Different with the purpose of real innovation. Of which look great to me.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This is simply amazing.
They won't, but everyone who is curious or concerned about or blindly hating on Arenanet or Guild Wars 2 should read this.
Read it, people; read, and understand.
And if you claim no one has played it, you obviously don't follow the game closely enough to be levying any criticisms against it. I am okay if you don't like what is being done, but it is being done; don't tell me it isn't, because I know that it is.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I vote sticky.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I didn't know about the custom context-sensitive soundtrack. That's beyond awesome. iTunes will be so happy for this.
Espescially the 2nd part, understand it.... Thats what they should do.... Everyone thats been around long enough recognises what GW2is doing, and for those that not yet do, this sums it up so anyone can virtualise inside his head what the game will look like and play like. I played some PvE and PvP at Gamescon and it was incredibly fun.Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
This post should pop up on everyone's first visit to any GW2 related site.
Great job!
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
BINGO! Clear your cards.
You have exactly nailed it as to why I've become a GW2 fan, and why I am so down on other recent MMOs. One thing that you didn't really touch on was community building...which is also a central pillar of their philosophy and is very integral to the design (you did cover a lot of the systems in your various points). The idea of really facilitating and encouraging a long-term, quality community surrounding your game is one that's been lost for a long time in this genre... and it's all about game design choices.
Great original post...I'll be linking to it often.
Wow. How long did it take you to put this together? I love it. This should be required reading for everyone who wants to play a MMORPG, ever, ever. It really accentuates how their company mentality is so very different, and why that is so very important.
One thing, though, sorry.
This is the wrong way to look at this. The right was is that this has been done nearly all the time for every game, and indeed, in nearly every business model for hundreds of years, if not thousands.
You buy something (with gold, barter, paper money, whatever) and it is yours. Now that it is yours, you own it, and you get to keep it unless you sell it to someone else. You own it.
I bought a Zelda game, and I own it. I haven't picked it up in years. I could pick it up and play it right now, because I own it, and I own the console to play it on. That is how buying things has always worked, and how it should always work. I bought a book, and even though it has been sitting on the bookshelf in my flat for a long time without being read, I could read it again whenever I like because I own it. I don't have to go to a website and pay for continued access to that book.
And that is how it should work. And that is how buying and selling things of all types has always worked.
Anet's business model is that you buy content, not access to the game. Other games have it in reverse, or they expect you to buy both.
Once I buy the original box, I can play that all I want, for good. But I won't have access to their new content they have for sale unless I buy that. So there is a continuing cost for playing, if you want to play everything. The difference is that you are buying content that you will get to keep for good, and not renting access.
The people who say the fee is needed, it obviously isn't. I bought Starcraft. It took a lot of money to make, but I own it, and I can play it, and play it online, whenever I like. Box sales pay for development and publishing and distribution costs. It is designed that way. (Note that the people who made Battle.net are the people who started Arena.net.)
This isn't new. It is old; it is just moral and right.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I very nice read Meowhead and it should be stickied. I see a lot of comments about GW2 fans being blind and claiming this is the second coming, yet when I read through old threads gathering information I don't see those kind of posts. Maybe every once in a while from someone baiting but not often. Maybe your deep thoughts coupled with others lack of information is how some come to the conclusion that GW2 fans are claiming the second coming?
For me I have discussed the design philosophy for hours with the wife and friends and we are all excited for what Anet is at least trying to accomplish with the game other than the gameplay aspects. Heres to hoping there is a shift in the trend that are MMO's today.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
You're comparing a console game to an MMO. There is not and never has been an MMO that is launching with a B2P model. It has not been done. You have a point, they're simply doing what gaming companies should have done from the beginning, but that doesn't making Meow's original point any less true.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Of course not. He's exactly right, except in that it is not really innovation. It is looking at what they think players really want, and doing what is best to build a community. Almost all of their innovations are based on those simple principles.
My point is that all the MMO companies, and a disturbingly large number of MMO players, are looking at this issue in entirely the wrong way. I see people all the time complaining that Anet couldn't possibly make a decent AAA game because they are not charging a fee, which is simply nonsense because game companies have been doing it for a very long time.
This isn't a new model, it is an old model. One genre hasn't been doing it, and now everyone is saying it is a new and exciting and innovative and risky thing, and it is not. It is a tried and true business model used since the dawn of civilization.
But that is not to say it isn't a wonderful thing to do, or that it is completely unheard of in the MMO world to date. And that's a shame.
In any case, I feel like this should be stickied. Anet is working under a philosophy that I feel many players simply don't understand. And once you understand the mentality of the company, and what their ultimate goals are, all these innovations and design decisions makes perfect sense, and just feel right. That's the beauty of Arenanet. They are starting with a philosophy for what a MMORPG should be, and all of their choices are intended to further that philosphy. They are on a mission to revolutionise the genre, to revitalize the genre. I couldn't be happier about it.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Innovation
1: the introduction of something new
So it is or is not new for triple A mmos?
Its grey but still "innovation" as the word is used in the context of almost every game today.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Great OP! And you actually taught me something. I didn't even know you could do custom soundtracks in GW2! I'm really excited about this.
I remember there was an old mod for WoW that would let you set up custom MP3's to play when certain events happened. It was awesome! I had FFVI combat music for fighting...the Ultima series sea shanty for the ship...many other things. I can't wait to start messing with my soundtrack again
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
QFT I mean honestly...To expand on something some of you are saying in, 'defense', of this rambling fanboism. You've only played this in a controlled enviroment at a games convention. Guess what? I have too, it seemed really rather great. But and here's the thing, that doesn't mean it'll be the greatest thing ever in MMO gaming, which some of you seem to blindly assume.
Hears an idea, Arenanet doesn't need, 'supporters', people who will blindly support it till the bitter end, like a football team. Get realistic, treat it like any other form of entertainment. Support it after it comes out and maybe you like it, not before based on well phrased marketing drivel and some controlled play sessions/sexy videos.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
The thing your missing here is that this thread is focused mostly on the general MMO game design philosophies of the developers at ArenaNet-utilizing features and examples shown in demos of GW2 as direct evidence of those philosophies. The lack of GW2's release has absolutely no bearing in this discussion.
An excellent original post and good discussion!
Quibbles over "innovation", "iteration" and all the other buzz words, are just part of the discussion. We all have different definitions and shadings. Don't get to wrapped up with the details of the word choices, that way lies madness!