People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
You know, it gets old seeing comments from kiddies who arent old enough to know that WoW is a clone of several other mmos before it. And to call SWTOR a WoW clone is obviously done by those who arent playing SWTOR! I have played nearly all of the mmos since 2000 and can say that SWTOR is NOT a WoW clone. It is nicely done and has gaming aspects that WoW clearly doesnt. I am enjoying SWTOR and know it is a great mmo. If you don't then simply don't play it!!! Lol. Very simple.
BTW, the terms Fanboy and Troll are just names the kiddies give to those who disagree with them....is a kid thing. Lmao.
I think people confuse wow clone and themepark. Yes swtor is a themepark, wow clone not so much.
.....except Bioware devs have stated that they used WoW as a basis for most of their design decisions.
Yes they did. And it shows. Although Im not a WoW fan. Wow did it better. It does, did and will continue to do so.
Just saying.
One thing Tor has that WoW doesnt? Nifty voice overs. Now lets see how long that lasts you.
Just one thing? since we are being baised and unreasonable in discussion here i can also go that route but not worth it however WOW also doesn't have robust companion system (yes i even killed my companion in SWTOR being evil), a crafting system like SWTOR, the changes in armor and looks based on light side /dark side choices, crew crafting and gathering, modding system to change looks of the armor, any type of space mini game or any mini games what so ever, no datacrons to hunt for which add perma stats to your character, a pvp system where you can nominate other players in PVP based on their contribution and reward them extra badges, WOW has no personal housing, in SWTOR you get personal ships, yes they have nothing going for it now but atleast SWTOR has the base to expand upon....
I can go on.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
Cataclysm fucking sucked. So saying that WoW will "continue to do it better" is pretty short-sighted, considering their quality has been on a downward spiral since Burning Crusade.
Honestly, all WoW has going for it at his point is 7 years of content under it's belt, and 7 years to improve upon areas that needed improvement.
As far as fun and enjoyment...I'll take TOR any day of the week over WoW. And I'll take either of those two games over Rift, which was a collosal bore.
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
Please tell me your on mushrooms right now?
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
LOL, what's it like to be dead wrong, then? Because you are.
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
What in God's name are you talking about bud? game failed so hard when it hasn't even completed one month? on what basis are you calling it a failure? so far it is a success on basis of copies it sold and anything else is pure speculation.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
What in God's name are you talking about bud? game failed so hard when it hasn't even completed one month? on what basis are you calling it a failure? so far it is a success on basis of copies it sold and anythign else is pure speculation.
nm him, he is just another internet moron who considers a game "dead" because he isnt playing it. The world revolves around him.
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
What in God's name are you talking about bud? game failed so hard when it hasn't even completed one month? on what basis are you calling it a failure? so far it is a success on basis of copies it sold and anythign else is pure speculation.
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
What in God's name are you talking about bud? game failed so hard when it hasn't even completed one month? on what basis are you calling it a failure? so far it is a success on basis of copies it sold and anythign else is pure speculation.
Yeap, it died on it's feet somehow.
I think 'i told you so' brigade is getting desperate and jumping the gun here.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
that may well be as regards the UI... although by the sound of it, unlike wow the UI isnt that moddable, though when you take into account the complaints about a number of other games that released last year, that had very user unfriendly UI's then its understandable that they would have a really good look at one that works.. but UI's are not the whole game.. otherwise we would be getting complaints that MW3 etc are just Counterstrike clones (their not.. counterstrike is better for one thing ) on the other hand, is SW;TOR even having a good launch, the servers are down for maintenance every day pretty much.. which .. is a sign that there are a few issues that their struggling to resolve, perhaps it was too much to expect the launch of SW;TOR to be as good as the launch of Rift..
Honestly, the UI is one of the things I think games SHOULD look at WoW for. After all the mods & revisions, the UI in WoW is not only incredibly streamlined, but also customizable.
Unfortunately, they were not just talking about the UI. They did try to do some things differently, but they most definitely used WoW's game design as a basis for their game. They aren't even refuting this, they are embracing it. I don't understand why this is still under discussion. Keep inmind that Bioware had never done an MMO before, WoW has been the reigning king of MMOs in their eyes, so it really shouldn't be a big shocker. Very few companies try and break into the industry by making a radically different game, they tend to want to play it safe to test the waters first.
That said, the problems that come w/ basing your game off of a game like WoW are evident. Some people can look passed it, some can't.
I don't think your example really holds up either. For one, counter-strike is a mod that was a clone off of a UT mod way back in the day. For two, MW didn't make it's game to compete w/ CS (which was free when MW first started). If anything, MW games are redudnant. They are clones of themselves. One could say the same of UT as well. I've also seen more innovation out of FPS in the passed few years, than from what we've seen in MMOs. It's kind of sad when you think about it, but there have been a lot of advancements in the FPS genre. Not so much for MMOs.
It is negative news but its not really worth noting...
How is it negative though? Having 350k online concurrently during peak hours seems rather impressive to me. Not to mention there's nothing to say that number won't grow. It isn't like WoW or other popular mmos garnered their impressive player numbers over night.
This number really says nothing positive or negative about the game. The one thing I will say though is the NO western market MMORPG since WoW has managed to exceed the subs it had during its first month. So the odds are really stacked against SWTOR in this regard. If it does manage to exceed the subs it has during month 1, that will be an impressive feat.
I think SWTOR will be the most successful mmorpg since wow tbh: It has loads of content; promises of new content in a timely and regular fashion; enough innovation to be a little different from the competition; and the whole Bioware/Star Wars genre vibe.
But Creslin makes an interesting point: can SWTOR actually increase its subs after month 1?
I think vanilla wow was a great game, but not only that; it seemed to be perfectly pitched in the right place at the right time as well as having the Blizzard vibe about it (with those awsome intro sequences).
I am positive that SWTOR is equal to vanilla wow, but I also think times have changed and that the mmorpg market and culture that SWTOR finds itself in is radically different from the one that Wow was in.
Many people now (unreasonably?) expect a new game to have all that wow currently has with its seven years of patching and expacs. Also many gamers are more cynical (myself included) at having been burned by other themeparks that made HUGE promises like WAR, AOC and so on. Throw in the burgeoning console market and the FPS populism. Maybe a dash of depression era economics, too. Yeh, SWTOR will have it harder than vanilla wow imo.
As for me: SWTOR is my themepark having replaced WOW and RIFT. I've been on holiday for the last three weeks so have played about three months worth of casual SWTOR given my usual gaming hours when working. I am still VERY happy with SWTOR in a way that I was with vanilla WOW and in a way that I wasn't with WAR, AOC, RIFT etc. I think SWTOR will surprise everyone and will soak up more subs after month one, but we shall see.
One can imagine how the words of a pair of low rent blogs linked here could be construed as gospel. Pair that with the estimation of some random guy that TOR has a paltry estimated 350k subscriptions in one portion of the European gaming market I can definately see that this game is going to be FTP in roughly around 8.9 hours.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
The simple reality is... you don't have to kill wow to be highly successful or even at some point to have more subs than wow (which is not something I expect tor to acomplish mind) the MMO market is growing by leaps and bounds and has been for years. One games success does NOT mean another games demise. We haven't yet reached that level of saturation and this is especially true as many games are going to a freemium model and hardware has gotten relatively so cheap.
I do think swtor will pull a lot of non-tolkien fantasy players into the mmo genre and will probably pick up quite a few more players that didn't come from other mmo's than a lot of other games have.
tor did a lot of things right, but it failed in a lot of respects too. All in all though it's a good casual aaa game.
Honestly, its probably not going to be felt in WoW because people who play WoW will try SWTOR realize that its a carbon copy of WoW with less features... and a sprinkle of story and cinematics...and they'll just leave...
So in short they didn't cancel their subscription to WoW to try SWTOR and instead already cancelled SWTOR and running back to WoW.
I wouldn't be too sure about that.
It may or may not be SWTOR that helps with the mass exodus of players that WoW will experience due to their Pandaran xpack.
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
Yeah millions of copies sold and basically all servers are high to full in prime time. What a huge embarassing failure.
Honestly, its probably not going to be felt in WoW because people who play WoW will try SWTOR realize that its a carbon copy of WoW with less features... and a sprinkle of story and cinematics...and they'll just leave...
So in short they didn't cancel their subscription to WoW to try SWTOR and instead already cancelled SWTOR and running back to WoW.
I wouldn't be too sure about that.
It may or may not be SWTOR that helps with the mass exodus of players that WoW will experience due to their Pandaran xpack.
In my own little group of gaming... they are all waiting for that same xpack to start playing WoW again. The vocal masses on forums that are pro or anti... do not represent any meaningful percentage of the MMO player base or what they will do. There may be a mass exodus... a mass return... or no significant shift at all. Because you... *I* or a few people we know do not like the idea of the Pandaran xpack.. saying there will be a mass exodus like its fact is just foolish at this point.
There has never been a massive shift away from WoW and if there was it would likely have more to do with the world economy than any xpack or other MMO released.
As to TOR... what I have noticed is either they raised the server cap limits and didn't mention it... or there has been a significant drop off in the last few days. My server had been full since the start of Early Access... Since Monday night or tuesday we have not gotten to full... and last night never even got to very heavy.
I wonder when the xpack of doom releases if there will be less active panda's than sith warriors/jedi knights...
Couldn't they had said how many Concurrent players Wow had as well at the same time?
Without comparisions any number is just useless info.
Let me do an estimate comparison for you. I don't have the most updated number but from an old number back when WoW China still under The9 management shown that WoW China has roughly 1 million PCU. I remember this quite clearly because they did celebrate that milestone. That was the same time frame that WoW had 12 million subscribers.
We know that WoW China's sub is about 2/3 of WoW's total sub. So, a rough estimate would point out that WoW Western had about 500K PCU at that time. Now, since WoW nolonger has 12 million sub and a lot of the sub lost are from the Western market as WoW China just annouced growth recently, I would say WoW on the Western market now proably has around 400K PCU may be lower.
So, there you have it, SWTOR - 350K PCU vs WoW - 400K PCU. Heheh, at this point, on the western market, SWTOR is not that far behind from WoW as you may thought. Of course, SWTOR is still in its free month so, who know what would happen. I just want to put this number is perspective so people don't just look at 350K PCU and said "SWTOR failed". Heheh, far from it. At this moment, SWTOR has just as many player as WoW on the western market.
Honestly, its probably not going to be felt in WoW because people who play WoW will try SWTOR realize that its a carbon copy of WoW with less features... and a sprinkle of story and cinematics...and they'll just leave...
So in short they didn't cancel their subscription to WoW to try SWTOR and instead already cancelled SWTOR and running back to WoW.
I wouldn't be too sure about that.
It may or may not be SWTOR that helps with the mass exodus of players that WoW will experience due to their Pandaran xpack.
In my own little group of gaming... they are all waiting for that same xpack to start playing WoW again. The vocal masses on forums that are pro or anti... do not represent any meaningful percentage of the MMO player base or what they will do. There may be a mass exodus... a mass return... or no significant shift at all. Because you... *I* or a few people we know do not like the idea of the Pandaran xpack.. saying there will be a mass exodus like its fact is just foolish at this point.
There has never been a massive shift away from WoW and if there was it would likely have more to do with the world economy than any xpack or other MMO released.
As to TOR... what I have noticed is either they raised the server cap limits and didn't mention it... or there has been a significant drop off in the last few days. My server had been full since the start of Early Access... Since Monday night or tuesday we have not gotten to full... and last night never even got to very heavy.
I wonder when the xpack of doom releases if there will be less active panda's than sith warriors/jedi knights...
Blue: Just because there "has never been" doesn't mean there couldn't be. And, as it looks, there will be.
Red: It's not about the pandas. It is about the simple fact that they are tearing apart and redoing the talent tree a second time in two xpacks. Continuity is required for a game to be enjoyable. Continually tearing apart and NGE'ing core parts of a game is VERY bad for business. Just ask SOE on that one.
Comments
People never listen. I called that SWTOR would flop almost 6 months ago, although even I didn't think it would fail so hard so fast, but still... oh well, I sympathize with everyone who wasted their money.
Just one thing? since we are being baised and unreasonable in discussion here i can also go that route but not worth it however WOW also doesn't have robust companion system (yes i even killed my companion in SWTOR being evil), a crafting system like SWTOR, the changes in armor and looks based on light side /dark side choices, crew crafting and gathering, modding system to change looks of the armor, any type of space mini game or any mini games what so ever, no datacrons to hunt for which add perma stats to your character, a pvp system where you can nominate other players in PVP based on their contribution and reward them extra badges, WOW has no personal housing, in SWTOR you get personal ships, yes they have nothing going for it now but atleast SWTOR has the base to expand upon....
I can go on.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
Cataclysm fucking sucked. So saying that WoW will "continue to do it better" is pretty short-sighted, considering their quality has been on a downward spiral since Burning Crusade.
Honestly, all WoW has going for it at his point is 7 years of content under it's belt, and 7 years to improve upon areas that needed improvement.
As far as fun and enjoyment...I'll take TOR any day of the week over WoW. And I'll take either of those two games over Rift, which was a collosal bore.
Please tell me your on mushrooms right now?
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
LOL, what's it like to be dead wrong, then? Because you are.
What in God's name are you talking about bud? game failed so hard when it hasn't even completed one month? on what basis are you calling it a failure? so far it is a success on basis of copies it sold and anything else is pure speculation.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
nm him, he is just another internet moron who considers a game "dead" because he isnt playing it. The world revolves around him.
Yeap, it died on it's feet somehow.
I think 'i told you so' brigade is getting desperate and jumping the gun here.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
Honestly, the UI is one of the things I think games SHOULD look at WoW for. After all the mods & revisions, the UI in WoW is not only incredibly streamlined, but also customizable.
Unfortunately, they were not just talking about the UI. They did try to do some things differently, but they most definitely used WoW's game design as a basis for their game. They aren't even refuting this, they are embracing it. I don't understand why this is still under discussion. Keep inmind that Bioware had never done an MMO before, WoW has been the reigning king of MMOs in their eyes, so it really shouldn't be a big shocker. Very few companies try and break into the industry by making a radically different game, they tend to want to play it safe to test the waters first.
That said, the problems that come w/ basing your game off of a game like WoW are evident. Some people can look passed it, some can't.
I don't think your example really holds up either. For one, counter-strike is a mod that was a clone off of a UT mod way back in the day. For two, MW didn't make it's game to compete w/ CS (which was free when MW first started). If anything, MW games are redudnant. They are clones of themselves. One could say the same of UT as well. I've also seen more innovation out of FPS in the passed few years, than from what we've seen in MMOs. It's kind of sad when you think about it, but there have been a lot of advancements in the FPS genre. Not so much for MMOs.
I think SWTOR will be the most successful mmorpg since wow tbh: It has loads of content; promises of new content in a timely and regular fashion; enough innovation to be a little different from the competition; and the whole Bioware/Star Wars genre vibe.
But Creslin makes an interesting point: can SWTOR actually increase its subs after month 1?
I think vanilla wow was a great game, but not only that; it seemed to be perfectly pitched in the right place at the right time as well as having the Blizzard vibe about it (with those awsome intro sequences).
I am positive that SWTOR is equal to vanilla wow, but I also think times have changed and that the mmorpg market and culture that SWTOR finds itself in is radically different from the one that Wow was in.
Many people now (unreasonably?) expect a new game to have all that wow currently has with its seven years of patching and expacs. Also many gamers are more cynical (myself included) at having been burned by other themeparks that made HUGE promises like WAR, AOC and so on. Throw in the burgeoning console market and the FPS populism. Maybe a dash of depression era economics, too. Yeh, SWTOR will have it harder than vanilla wow imo.
As for me: SWTOR is my themepark having replaced WOW and RIFT. I've been on holiday for the last three weeks so have played about three months worth of casual SWTOR given my usual gaming hours when working. I am still VERY happy with SWTOR in a way that I was with vanilla WOW and in a way that I wasn't with WAR, AOC, RIFT etc. I think SWTOR will surprise everyone and will soak up more subs after month one, but we shall see.
Regards
Melmoth
People, please take note of the 1 word in the article that makes all this pointless - "estimates"
350k is just a number that some guy made up with no factual basis or stats to back it up...its pure speculation.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
X vs. WoW again? Really?
One can imagine how the words of a pair of low rent blogs linked here could be construed as gospel. Pair that with the estimation of some random guy that TOR has a paltry estimated 350k subscriptions in one portion of the European gaming market I can definately see that this game is going to be FTP in roughly around 8.9 hours.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
The simple reality is... you don't have to kill wow to be highly successful or even at some point to have more subs than wow (which is not something I expect tor to acomplish mind) the MMO market is growing by leaps and bounds and has been for years. One games success does NOT mean another games demise. We haven't yet reached that level of saturation and this is especially true as many games are going to a freemium model and hardware has gotten relatively so cheap.
I do think swtor will pull a lot of non-tolkien fantasy players into the mmo genre and will probably pick up quite a few more players that didn't come from other mmo's than a lot of other games have.
tor did a lot of things right, but it failed in a lot of respects too. All in all though it's a good casual aaa game.
Shadus
Yup.
"estimates" = pulls numbers out of ass, posts on interwebz..
I wouldn't be too sure about that.
It may or may not be SWTOR that helps with the mass exodus of players that WoW will experience due to their Pandaran xpack.
Yeah millions of copies sold and basically all servers are high to full in prime time. What a huge embarassing failure.
In my own little group of gaming... they are all waiting for that same xpack to start playing WoW again. The vocal masses on forums that are pro or anti... do not represent any meaningful percentage of the MMO player base or what they will do. There may be a mass exodus... a mass return... or no significant shift at all. Because you... *I* or a few people we know do not like the idea of the Pandaran xpack.. saying there will be a mass exodus like its fact is just foolish at this point.
There has never been a massive shift away from WoW and if there was it would likely have more to do with the world economy than any xpack or other MMO released.
As to TOR... what I have noticed is either they raised the server cap limits and didn't mention it... or there has been a significant drop off in the last few days. My server had been full since the start of Early Access... Since Monday night or tuesday we have not gotten to full... and last night never even got to very heavy.
I wonder when the xpack of doom releases if there will be less active panda's than sith warriors/jedi knights...
Guys first off those numbers have been made up. Secondly, concurrent users online =/= total amount of subscribers.
a lunch with these number that is excluding asia is actually insanely good!
^ This
Let me do an estimate comparison for you. I don't have the most updated number but from an old number back when WoW China still under The9 management shown that WoW China has roughly 1 million PCU. I remember this quite clearly because they did celebrate that milestone. That was the same time frame that WoW had 12 million subscribers.
We know that WoW China's sub is about 2/3 of WoW's total sub. So, a rough estimate would point out that WoW Western had about 500K PCU at that time. Now, since WoW nolonger has 12 million sub and a lot of the sub lost are from the Western market as WoW China just annouced growth recently, I would say WoW on the Western market now proably has around 400K PCU may be lower.
So, there you have it, SWTOR - 350K PCU vs WoW - 400K PCU. Heheh, at this point, on the western market, SWTOR is not that far behind from WoW as you may thought.
Of course, SWTOR is still in its free month so, who know what would happen. I just want to put this number is perspective so people don't just look at 350K PCU and said "SWTOR failed". Heheh, far from it. At this moment, SWTOR has just as many player as WoW on the western market.
swtor is doing very good!lunch for lunch !swtor is better then wow was number wise and quality wise!
Blue: Just because there "has never been" doesn't mean there couldn't be. And, as it looks, there will be.
Red: It's not about the pandas. It is about the simple fact that they are tearing apart and redoing the talent tree a second time in two xpacks. Continuity is required for a game to be enjoyable. Continually tearing apart and NGE'ing core parts of a game is VERY bad for business. Just ask SOE on that one.